I always loved Paladins, they've been my favorite class in any game for as long as I can remember. Long story short I'm a massive Paladin fanboy and part of that is my love for supportive auras. There is something about just auras and Paladins for me that "click". So for a while I've tried to figure out an aura for the Oath of Vengeance Paladin, to get in place for Relentless Avenger since, let's face it, it's not a very fun feature to get.
I came up with this, but wanted critique and ideas. If it's to strong/does not fit etc.
Pre-thanks, the new feature is down below "Aura of Vengeance".
Level 7: Relentless Avenger --> Aura of Vengeance:
The Paladin's intense focus spurs their allies into battle. The Paladin and all allies within 10 feet gain the Paladin's charisma modifier to their initiative (minimum 1). You must be conscious to grant this bonus. In addition if an ally affected by this aura would fall unconscious by an enemy the Paladin can immediately deliver a free attack upon the enemy who downed the ally. The Paladin can move up to half their movement to get in range for the attack, this movement ignores opportunity attacks. This free attack can't happen more than once per combat round.
At level 18 the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.
Yes! Paladins are also my favorite class! I've never played a Vengeance paladin, but I could see how the aura could feel lackluster as it applies only to the paladin himself, so it's not so much an "aura" as an extra ability. Oath of Vengeance does not let evil escape, though, so the official "aura" fits with the theme. I don't think it's all that bad, especially compared to Crown or Redemption (my ability is that I can take damage for someone else? Don't I already do that a lot of the time?)
I think boosting everyone's initiative is a little too strong. PCs could group up in the aura so everyone starts with up to a +5 to initiative every time. That's a huge advantage. I like the idea of the aura benefiting party members, though, like Devotion and Ancients' auras. The second half of your idea, while really thematic and cinematic, it may not be strong enough on its own since you shouldn't have party members getting downed too often, right? Right?
I know it's completely different, but what do you think of this idea: Your supernatural focus helps you and your allies close off a foe’s retreat. Opportunity attacks made by the paladin and allies within 10ft are made with advantage. You buff your allies and yourself while keeping with the theme of never letting evil escape. Or is even that underpowered? What about extending the official ability to yourself and allies within 10ft?
Oath of vengeance is a useless oath to follow as a paladin. It seems you further prove this by wanting to give it an aura and a massively ridiculous op one at that.
Hey mate! I kinda asked for constructive criticism, not "smug, arrogant attitude". We have differing opinions about the OoV. And that's fine. However just stick to the format? If you have something constructive to add, add it. By all means. If not? Just don't. I'm still new at all this and only have theoretical knowledge, not as much practical.
Why not have charisma only add to your initiative? Then you wouldn't even need to rename the ability!
Or if you're committed to the aura then you could go for something like:
Aura of Vengeance: If an ally affected by this aura would fall unconscious by an enemy they may make a melee weapon attack at that enemy as a reaction before falling unconscious. You may make an attack of opportunity against that enemy if you are within range.
Super clunky but preserves the second part of the idea that you had
Vengeance-adins are a right pain in the behind of whoever they go after. Hunters Mark is a quite reliable damage increaser, the CDiv marking a foe and providing advantage for a minute? seriously thats almost a demand to get the twohanded weapons and GWM feat and the increased chance of a crit is just smite bait.
Their terrifying. In regard to changing the aura? if you really truly wanted a defender paladin rather than the most offensively capable (excepting perhaps the oathbreaker) then try the ancient oath, but be warned they are just... defensively buffed. Its not even funny and their Cdiv is depressing.
Alternative idea - As the name is vengeance paladin. Aura of vengeance: When an ally is hit by an enemy and both are within your aura you may use your reaction to move adjacent to the enemy and make one attack against them. This uses your reaction
Seeing as Vengeance Paladins are less about saving the good, and more about breaking the evil, perhaps their Aura should be a bane to hostiles, rather than a buff to allies.
What about a reverse of the Aura of Protection? --> all hostile creatures within your aura subtract your charisma modifier from their saves.
Or you could reuse the wolf totem barbarian's 3rd level rage ability, give your allies advantage against enemies within your aura (the enemies have to be in the aura, but the allies don't).
I do agree that not having an Aura makes Vengeance feel less... Paladine? (A word I just made up to describe the quality of being like a true Paladin)
@Tavric I like your idea of subtracting from the saves of the Paladin's enemies, though I don't think that it should apply to all saves. I think applying it to DEX and STR is adequate.
Seeing as Vengeance Paladins are less about saving the good, and more about breaking the evil, perhaps their Aura should be a bane to hostiles, rather than a buff to allies.
What about a reverse of the Aura of Protection? --> all hostile creatures within your aura subtract your charisma modifier from their saves.
Or you could reuse the wolf totem barbarian's 3rd level rage ability, give your allies advantage against enemies within your aura (the enemies have to be in the aura, but the allies don't).
I do agree that not having an Aura makes Vengeance feel less... Paladine? (A word I just made up to describe the quality of being like a true Paladin)
I would be very hesitant of doing that. It would be far too powerful seeing as Vengeance already gets Hold Person & Hold Monster on their spell lists.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I play a Vengeance Paladin in one of my current campaigns and utilize this feature a lot. While Relentless Avenger is flavored for chasing down enemies, I use it the opposite way - for kiting. Chasing down enemies is done misty step and dashing (early) and with haste (after lvl 9).
Relentless Avenger combined with feats Polearm Master and Sentinel
When a creature enters your reach you get an opportunity attack, and on a hit the target's speed drops to 0. You can then move 15ft and brace yourself for their next attack - their speed recovers on their next turn, when you have a new reaction to use as well. It of course doesn't work with large swarms of enemies, but is very powerful against bosses and limited number of mid-strength enemies. This, combined with mold earth, wall spells, or natural clutch points can be very useful in combat.
Of course, this is highly situational and it's not the most powerful level 7 ability on the table. But it does have it's uses, so you might as well make the most of it.
starting at 7th level, choose a number of hostile creatures within 10 feet of you equal to your Charisma modifier (with a minimum of 1). Those creatures have disadvantage on attacks against creatures other than you, and must make a wisdom saving throw against your paladin save DC to move out of the range of your aura. You must be conscious to grant this effect.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet
or:
starting at 7th level, choose a number of hostile creatures within 10 feet of you equal to your Charisma modifier (with a minimum of 1). Allies have advantage on attacks against affected creatures within range of your aura for 1 minute, or until it leaves the range of your aura. Affected creatures must make a wisdom saving throw against your paladin save DC to move out of the range of your aura. A creature cannot be affected by this aura again once it succeeds on its saving throw. You must be conscious to grant this effect.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet
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Hey team!
I always loved Paladins, they've been my favorite class in any game for as long as I can remember. Long story short I'm a massive Paladin fanboy and part of that is my love for supportive auras. There is something about just auras and Paladins for me that "click". So for a while I've tried to figure out an aura for the Oath of Vengeance Paladin, to get in place for Relentless Avenger since, let's face it, it's not a very fun feature to get.
I came up with this, but wanted critique and ideas. If it's to strong/does not fit etc.
Pre-thanks, the new feature is down below "Aura of Vengeance".
Level 7: Relentless Avenger --> Aura of Vengeance:
The Paladin's intense focus spurs their allies into battle. The Paladin and all allies within 10 feet gain the Paladin's charisma modifier to their initiative (minimum 1). You must be conscious to grant this bonus.
In addition if an ally affected by this aura would fall unconscious by an enemy the Paladin can immediately deliver a free attack upon the enemy who downed the ally. The Paladin can move up to half their movement to get in range for the attack, this movement ignores opportunity attacks. This free attack can't happen more than once per combat round.
At level 18 the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.
Yes! Paladins are also my favorite class! I've never played a Vengeance paladin, but I could see how the aura could feel lackluster as it applies only to the paladin himself, so it's not so much an "aura" as an extra ability. Oath of Vengeance does not let evil escape, though, so the official "aura" fits with the theme. I don't think it's all that bad, especially compared to Crown or Redemption (my ability is that I can take damage for someone else? Don't I already do that a lot of the time?)
I think boosting everyone's initiative is a little too strong. PCs could group up in the aura so everyone starts with up to a +5 to initiative every time. That's a huge advantage. I like the idea of the aura benefiting party members, though, like Devotion and Ancients' auras. The second half of your idea, while really thematic and cinematic, it may not be strong enough on its own since you shouldn't have party members getting downed too often, right? Right?
I know it's completely different, but what do you think of this idea: Your supernatural focus helps you and your allies close off a foe’s retreat. Opportunity attacks made by the paladin and allies within 10ft are made with advantage. You buff your allies and yourself while keeping with the theme of never letting evil escape. Or is even that underpowered? What about extending the official ability to yourself and allies within 10ft?
Oath of vengeance is a useless oath to follow as a paladin. It seems you further prove this by wanting to give it an aura and a massively ridiculous op one at that.
Maddogs 1989
Hey mate!
I kinda asked for constructive criticism, not "smug, arrogant attitude". We have differing opinions about the OoV. And that's fine. However just stick to the format? If you have something constructive to add, add it. By all means. If not? Just don't. I'm still new at all this and only have theoretical knowledge, not as much practical.
Kind regards,
Mellitus
Oath of vengeance is far from useless. The oath spells and channel divinity options all have their utility. There's no harm in spitballing new ideas
Why not have charisma only add to your initiative? Then you wouldn't even need to rename the ability!
Or if you're committed to the aura then you could go for something like:
Aura of Vengeance: If an ally affected by this aura would fall unconscious by an enemy they may make a melee weapon attack at that enemy as a reaction before falling unconscious. You may make an attack of opportunity against that enemy if you are within range.
Super clunky but preserves the second part of the idea that you had
Vengeance-adins are a right pain in the behind of whoever they go after. Hunters Mark is a quite reliable damage increaser, the CDiv marking a foe and providing advantage for a minute? seriously thats almost a demand to get the twohanded weapons and GWM feat and the increased chance of a crit is just smite bait.
Their terrifying. In regard to changing the aura? if you really truly wanted a defender paladin rather than the most offensively capable (excepting perhaps the oathbreaker) then try the ancient oath, but be warned they are just... defensively buffed. Its not even funny and their Cdiv is depressing.
Alternative idea - As the name is vengeance paladin. Aura of vengeance: When an ally is hit by an enemy and both are within your aura you may use your reaction to move adjacent to the enemy and make one attack against them. This uses your reaction
Seeing as Vengeance Paladins are less about saving the good, and more about breaking the evil, perhaps their Aura should be a bane to hostiles, rather than a buff to allies.
What about a reverse of the Aura of Protection? --> all hostile creatures within your aura subtract your charisma modifier from their saves.
Or you could reuse the wolf totem barbarian's 3rd level rage ability, give your allies advantage against enemies within your aura (the enemies have to be in the aura, but the allies don't).
I do agree that not having an Aura makes Vengeance feel less... Paladine? (A word I just made up to describe the quality of being like a true Paladin)
@Tavric I like your idea of subtracting from the saves of the Paladin's enemies, though I don't think that it should apply to all saves. I think applying it to DEX and STR is adequate.
I would be very hesitant of doing that. It would be far too powerful seeing as Vengeance already gets Hold Person & Hold Monster on their spell lists.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I play a Vengeance Paladin in one of my current campaigns and utilize this feature a lot. While Relentless Avenger is flavored for chasing down enemies, I use it the opposite way - for kiting. Chasing down enemies is done misty step and dashing (early) and with haste (after lvl 9).
Relentless Avenger combined with feats Polearm Master and Sentinel
When a creature enters your reach you get an opportunity attack, and on a hit the target's speed drops to 0. You can then move 15ft and brace yourself for their next attack - their speed recovers on their next turn, when you have a new reaction to use as well. It of course doesn't work with large swarms of enemies, but is very powerful against bosses and limited number of mid-strength enemies. This, combined with mold earth, wall spells, or natural clutch points can be very useful in combat.
Of course, this is highly situational and it's not the most powerful level 7 ability on the table. But it does have it's uses, so you might as well make the most of it.
Factually wrong and void of useful contributions.
I would change it to something like this:
Aura of enmity:
starting at 7th level, choose a number of hostile creatures within 10 feet of you equal to your Charisma modifier (with a minimum of 1). Those creatures have disadvantage on attacks against creatures other than you, and must make a wisdom saving throw against your paladin save DC to move out of the range of your aura. You must be conscious to grant this effect.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet
or:
starting at 7th level, choose a number of hostile creatures within 10 feet of you equal to your Charisma modifier (with a minimum of 1). Allies have advantage on attacks against affected creatures within range of your aura for 1 minute, or until it leaves the range of your aura. Affected creatures must make a wisdom saving throw against your paladin save DC to move out of the range of your aura. A creature cannot be affected by this aura again once it succeeds on its saving throw. You must be conscious to grant this effect.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet