I'm glad you found something that works for you. Double Scimitar is fantastic for paladins if it's available, and in Eberron an elf or half elf paladin is a particularly good thematic fit for a Valenar adventurer.
oh wow, i didn't know about the double blade being an official thing in wotc books. That's definitely a good way to go if the DM allows that book. Revenant blade is only a half feat too, so you save 1 stat compared to the dual wield feat, although it requires an elf, so no half-elf choice like elven accuracy, which kind of balances it back quite well, since half-elf is a little bit better (more stats) if you don't need anything specific from elf race. Also this avenue makes a little bit more sense to use on a mounted character. I think it would be hard to hit a target with a sword in each hand while riding a horse. What subclass did you take, OP? I don't think it matters that much, they would all work, but i might go with oath of glory when i end up making this build, for flavor, because riding a pegasus at 90ft flying speed and hacking through foes with a double-blade weapon is pretty glorious. Also, freedom of movement to keep the mount from restrain, aura bonus to walking speed of your mount, and a nice bonus action for distributing temp hit points to your mount whenever you 1 shot crit a mob and have nothing better to do, and nice reaction option at level 15 and good level 20 ability. Oath of conquest has the best level 20 ability for sure in this build, but all the rest has meh synergy and i wouldnt pick the subclass just for a thing to use one minute per long rest when the campaign is practically over. Ancients is interesting for spell damage reduction, and Vengeance is just always top tier but not specifically synergistic to a mounted build.
I was originally planning on taking Oath of Glory, but I wound up taking Oath of the Ancients. The character is an Eladrin so I felt it just fit really well thematically.
Ironically Eladrin are all about wild emotions and changing with the seasons, yet with elven accuracy, great weapon master on double scimitar, and mounted combatant, she's dealing crazy consistent damage. It's not necessarily the highest, but she'll always hit and always deal decent damage.
He definitely means the great weapon fighting style. the GWM feat has no use at all in this build. Double bladed scimitar already has bonus action attack, and does not have the heavy property
He definitely means the great weapon fighting style. the GWM feat has no use at all in this build. Double bladed scimitar already has bonus action attack, and does not have the heavy property
It's actually a pretty good fighting style for it, as 1's and 2's are much more common on a d4 than they are on a d10 or d6. It's normally better to not reroll 2's, IME, as you then are as likely to roll a 1 as you are a 3 or 4, but the increased amount of rerolling 1's is very useful.
Also, when offered the chance, no paladin should give up the ability to attack as a bonus action.
(Flame Tongue Double-Bladed Scimitars are amazingly good with this combo, too.)
i agree bonus action is a must; another tempting option is to get the scimitar of speed magic item with a shield if the campaign has magic shops. i might consider to skip the double-blade to get half-elf for more raw stats, and then skip the dual wield feat aswell, dual wielding scimitars until i get a scimitar of speed. Less damage by ~15% but +1AC, better starting stats, and saves a feat for something else, maybe get slasher instead, with great synergy for a build that focuses on crits.
If you land your attacks, you'll very quickly run out spell slots to smite.
I think the real potential for what you are trying to do is to take pole-arm master, and combine it with divine favor for damage per round, with smites to accentuate the hits. Especially combined with Devotion Paladin's Sacred Weapon Channel Divinity.
But the image and role play of two weapon fighting can be cool, so it can be worth it for the rule of cool.
if you smite only on crits, i don't think you would run out that fast even though you get 1.5x more crits on advantage than a build without elven accuracy. It is definitely by no means the only way to play a pally for sure, and i agree, the pole-arm thing is another top tier build.
Wouldn't Polearm Master give you the extra attacks, you are seeking, but for better overall damage? At level 5, a paladin, with a halberd/glaive, will get two attacks for 1-10 + modifiers and one for 1-4 + modifiers, plus an opportunity attack if a creature enters your 10 foot reach. All of those attacks can have a smite thrown on top, if you wish.
I’m working on a Paladin who wields a broom (quarterstaff) and shield, taking advantage of polearm master.
You aren't wielding the quarterstaff as a polearm, if you are using a shield. I think this works in RAW, but not in RAI. To get the extra attack, you should have to be using the spear or quarterstaff with 2h imo.
With polearm master you can deal 2d10 + 1d4, for a minimum of 3, maximum of 24, and average of 13.5
With dual wielder feat and two longswords, you can deal 3d8 for a minimum of 3, maximum of 24, and average of 13.5
Damage is pretty much the same, with great weapon master you can get a little bit of a higher average, but with dual wielder you get a +1 bonus to AC so neither one is better than the other overall. At 4th level dual wielder is better because you have 2d8 vs 1d10+1d4, but in the end it doesn't really matter.
In short, polearm master is a little better damage wise, and dual wielder is a little better defense wise
I’m working on a Paladin who wields a broom (quarterstaff) and shield, taking advantage of polearm master.
You aren't wielding the quarterstaff as a polearm, if you are using a shield. I think this works in RAW, but not in RAI. To get the extra attack, you should have to be using the spear or quarterstaff with 2h imo.
This is a reasonable enough house rule, and the concept of staff and shield is a little weird. That said, the concept of /spear/ and shield is both cool and has historical and mythological precedent, and allowing PAM to work with the one handed weapons associated with it makes spear and shield actually effective and popular in game, something it absolutely wasn't before the errata that added spears to PAM. Again, your ruling is reasonable here, and I understand it, but IMO making Spear and Shield builds cool and strong and popular is a worthy enough outcome that I'm personally willing to forgive and overlook the silliness of the occasional staff and shield build that sneaks in under the same umbrella.
I’m working on a Paladin who wields a broom (quarterstaff) and shield, taking advantage of polearm master.
You aren't wielding the quarterstaff as a polearm, if you are using a shield. I think this works in RAW, but not in RAI. To get the extra attack, you should have to be using the spear or quarterstaff with 2h imo.
I'd respect that as a ruling at the table if my dm went with it. But its not exactly breaking anything, mechanically.
My whole plan with that weird character is that he originally trained with a sword, but he has refused to draw his blade ever again after some tragic event, and so has picked up a trick or two to surprise his enemies while fighting with a broom for a sword.
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I'm glad you found something that works for you. Double Scimitar is fantastic for paladins if it's available, and in Eberron an elf or half elf paladin is a particularly good thematic fit for a Valenar adventurer.
oh wow, i didn't know about the double blade being an official thing in wotc books. That's definitely a good way to go if the DM allows that book. Revenant blade is only a half feat too, so you save 1 stat compared to the dual wield feat, although it requires an elf, so no half-elf choice like elven accuracy, which kind of balances it back quite well, since half-elf is a little bit better (more stats) if you don't need anything specific from elf race. Also this avenue makes a little bit more sense to use on a mounted character. I think it would be hard to hit a target with a sword in each hand while riding a horse. What subclass did you take, OP? I don't think it matters that much, they would all work, but i might go with oath of glory when i end up making this build, for flavor, because riding a pegasus at 90ft flying speed and hacking through foes with a double-blade weapon is pretty glorious. Also, freedom of movement to keep the mount from restrain, aura bonus to walking speed of your mount, and a nice bonus action for distributing temp hit points to your mount whenever you 1 shot crit a mob and have nothing better to do, and nice reaction option at level 15 and good level 20 ability. Oath of conquest has the best level 20 ability for sure in this build, but all the rest has meh synergy and i wouldnt pick the subclass just for a thing to use one minute per long rest when the campaign is practically over. Ancients is interesting for spell damage reduction, and Vengeance is just always top tier but not specifically synergistic to a mounted build.
I was originally planning on taking Oath of Glory, but I wound up taking Oath of the Ancients. The character is an Eladrin so I felt it just fit really well thematically.
Ironically Eladrin are all about wild emotions and changing with the seasons, yet with elven accuracy, great weapon master on double scimitar, and mounted combatant, she's dealing crazy consistent damage. It's not necessarily the highest, but she'll always hit and always deal decent damage.
Great Weapon Master? Do you mean great weapon fighter or do you have the world's most lenient DM?
He definitely means the great weapon fighting style. the GWM feat has no use at all in this build. Double bladed scimitar already has bonus action attack, and does not have the heavy property
It's actually a pretty good fighting style for it, as 1's and 2's are much more common on a d4 than they are on a d10 or d6. It's normally better to not reroll 2's, IME, as you then are as likely to roll a 1 as you are a 3 or 4, but the increased amount of rerolling 1's is very useful.
Also, when offered the chance, no paladin should give up the ability to attack as a bonus action.
(Flame Tongue Double-Bladed Scimitars are amazingly good with this combo, too.)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
i agree bonus action is a must; another tempting option is to get the scimitar of speed magic item with a shield if the campaign has magic shops. i might consider to skip the double-blade to get half-elf for more raw stats, and then skip the dual wield feat aswell, dual wielding scimitars until i get a scimitar of speed. Less damage by ~15% but +1AC, better starting stats, and saves a feat for something else, maybe get slasher instead, with great synergy for a build that focuses on crits.
If you land your attacks, you'll very quickly run out spell slots to smite.
I think the real potential for what you are trying to do is to take pole-arm master, and combine it with divine favor for damage per round, with smites to accentuate the hits. Especially combined with Devotion Paladin's Sacred Weapon Channel Divinity.
But the image and role play of two weapon fighting can be cool, so it can be worth it for the rule of cool.
if you smite only on crits, i don't think you would run out that fast even though you get 1.5x more crits on advantage than a build without elven accuracy. It is definitely by no means the only way to play a pally for sure, and i agree, the pole-arm thing is another top tier build.
Darn I was also thinking at the time that I didn't want to mix up GWF and GWM. I meant GWF.
Wouldn't Polearm Master give you the extra attacks, you are seeking, but for better overall damage? At level 5, a paladin, with a halberd/glaive, will get two attacks for 1-10 + modifiers and one for 1-4 + modifiers, plus an opportunity attack if a creature enters your 10 foot reach. All of those attacks can have a smite thrown on top, if you wish.
I’m working on a Paladin who wields a broom (quarterstaff) and shield, taking advantage of polearm master.
Yeah, but I wanted to do something different
You aren't wielding the quarterstaff as a polearm, if you are using a shield. I think this works in RAW, but not in RAI. To get the extra attack, you should have to be using the spear or quarterstaff with 2h imo.
With polearm master you can deal 2d10 + 1d4, for a minimum of 3, maximum of 24, and average of 13.5
With dual wielder feat and two longswords, you can deal 3d8 for a minimum of 3, maximum of 24, and average of 13.5
Damage is pretty much the same, with great weapon master you can get a little bit of a higher average, but with dual wielder you get a +1 bonus to AC so neither one is better than the other overall. At 4th level dual wielder is better because you have 2d8 vs 1d10+1d4, but in the end it doesn't really matter.
In short, polearm master is a little better damage wise, and dual wielder is a little better defense wise
This is a reasonable enough house rule, and the concept of staff and shield is a little weird. That said, the concept of /spear/ and shield is both cool and has historical and mythological precedent, and allowing PAM to work with the one handed weapons associated with it makes spear and shield actually effective and popular in game, something it absolutely wasn't before the errata that added spears to PAM. Again, your ruling is reasonable here, and I understand it, but IMO making Spear and Shield builds cool and strong and popular is a worthy enough outcome that I'm personally willing to forgive and overlook the silliness of the occasional staff and shield build that sneaks in under the same umbrella.
I'd respect that as a ruling at the table if my dm went with it. But its not exactly breaking anything, mechanically.
My whole plan with that weird character is that he originally trained with a sword, but he has refused to draw his blade ever again after some tragic event, and so has picked up a trick or two to surprise his enemies while fighting with a broom for a sword.