I know that each has its pros and cons and that depending on the situation, if you had both prepared, it would be clear which one to use when. But I'm wondering, if you were only going to prepare one of these, which would it be and why?
A paladin can only get access to Hold Person via their oath (vengeance, conquest or redemption) or multiclassing. In the former case Hold Person is prepared automatically so it is more a question of whether you prepare Command or not. I generally favour preparing Command as it is a useful spell in the hands of a creative player and the few occassions when I've not prepared it, I've regretted it.
That said, of the two my favourite would be Hold Person as it is more useful in combat, being that its effects apply immediately, while the Grovel use of Command doesn't apply until the target takes their turn. Additionally paralyzed is a better condition than prone as all your allies (ranged and melee-based) can benefit from the advantage to attack, while applying prone can make the target harder to hit for ranged allies.
A paladin can only get access to Hold Person via their oath (vengeance, conquest or redemption) or multiclassing. In the former case Hold Person is prepared automatically so it is more a question of whether you prepare Command or not.
I totally missed that I gained Hold Person and Misty Step as Oath Spells when I reached Level 5! Thanks a bunch!!
Command has wider applications than Hold Person, so it depends on how creative you are. It also affects Any creature who understands a language you speak, not just humanoids. Hold Person is mostly a combat spell and Only affects humanoids. So it really comes down to what you anticipate you will encounter and how well you can improvise solutions.
I have very rarely seen Command being used out of combat in 42 years of playing. It's not a question of creativity, it's really that it is so obvious as a magic that it makes you instantaneously hostile and the very limited duration prevents most role-playing uses especially with the one word limit.
You're right that most uses of Command are in combat. However, there are certainly urgent situations where using a 1 action spell is better than trying to convince a neutral-to-the-party NPC to take a specific course of action, like running away from a door they are guarding or drop an object they are trying to steal which would be harmful to them if they kept holding onto it. Yes, fisticuffs might ensue anyway, but being commanded to run or to drop something doesn't make somebody automatically loathe the spellcaster the way that paralyzing them does.
Besides the fact that Hold Person only works on humanoids, it's realistically only going to last 1 or 2 rounds and requires your concentration during that time. Meanwhile Command requires no concentration, can achieve similar effects (minus the critical hit part of paralysis) but can also move enemies towards or away from you. It also doesn't have somatic or material components, which is nice if you have both hands full or you like to grapple.
Command can be sort of fun, but with one word you can't do much especially since it's clear that a spell has been cast anyway, and it gest worse in other languages where it's even harder to find a one word command (for example, you might laugh at this, but in french there is one-word equivalent to "surrender", we have to be verbose about it :D ).
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Command can be sort of fun, but with one word you can't do much especially since it's clear that a spell has been cast anyway, and it gest worse in other languages where it's even harder to find a one word command (for example, you might laugh at this, but in french there is one-word equivalent to "surrender", we have to be verbose about it :D ).
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Not bad at all, and you know, I don't know where you found it but no one in 40+ years of roleplaying mostly in french ever came by it. It might be because it's just very sligthly "off" in the sense that you use that word for either moral (not morale) situations or for things like a stronghold under siege. But it is understandable and would be understood, at least by people who are not totally uncultured, thanks.
I know it feels a little off, even if I’m just un p’tit Belge, but it works. English isn’t necessarily a more convenient language for this either. “Release!” doesn’t sound quite right for making someone drop something or let go of something, for instance, but it’s the best one word option I can come up with.
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I confess yo momma so fat captain Ahab’s after her.
A confession is specifically an admission of guilt; in a spell about commanding someone with a word it's the definition of the word that matters, not how much of a prick the person being commanded is.
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I confess yo momma so fat captain Ahab’s after her.
A confession is specifically an admission of guilt; in a spell about commanding someone with a word it's the definition of the word that matters, not much how of a prick the person being commanded is.
Sure. I just wanted to make a little joke about Command sometimes being somewhat open to interpretation. Chances are someone has multiple things they are guilty of, for instance. It being one word is a deliberate limitation on Command. The DM shouldn’t be an ass about it, but if a particular situation makes it difficult to find the right command to give they shouldn’t just ignore that limitation either.
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I confess yo momma so fat captain Ahab’s after her.
A confession is specifically an admission of guilt; in a spell about commanding someone with a word it's the definition of the word that matters, not much how of a prick the person being commanded is.
Sure. I just wanted to make a little joke about Command sometimes being somewhat open to interpretation. Chances are someone has multiple things they are guilty of, for instance. It being one word is a deliberate limitation on Command. The DM shouldn’t be an ass about it, but if a particular situation makes it difficult to find the right command to give they shouldn’t just ignore that limitation either.
There's also the possibility that it could force someone to confess to a crime they didn't commit. And when Zone of Truth is a thing, that shouldn't be happening.
EDIT: That said, "Answer" could force someone affected to no longer remain silent.
I confess yo momma so fat captain Ahab’s after her.
A confession is specifically an admission of guilt; in a spell about commanding someone with a word it's the definition of the word that matters, not much how of a prick the person being commanded is.
I do't agree at all. You just gave a command to "confess", which is not necessarily make a confession, and not necessarily about what was asked just before. The target has to understand your language, it can interpret the command any way he likes as long as it's a valid interpretation. And without necessarily going the "joke" route, it could easily be "I confess that I stole a sweet from my baby brother when ma was not looking"...
Why would you disagree? I never said they had to confess what I wanted, I just pointed out that the counterargument doesn't apply, all I said was a few useful words.
That said, given the examples in the spell itself it seems clear it's not intended for the creature to go out of its way to cheat the command; the approach and flee examples state that the creature approach/flees by the fastest and most direct route possible, not by shuffling its feet reluctantly so that it only travels five feet. Halt causes the creature to stop and remain stopped, not stop then immediately resume doing whatever it wants and so-on.
If you're going to use "confess" then you're not going to just yell it out out of nowhere, you'd empower the word, e.g- "You keep leaving dirty dishes in the sink, don't you? CONFESS!"
In such a case it is clear what the command is, despite the actual command being constrained to one word. The spell description is to follow the command, not "you become the Wishmaster and do everything in your power to waste the player's spell". If your DM pulls that kind of crap all the time (and you're not clearly abusing Command on a regular basis), get a new DM. 😝
Now as you say, a magically compelled confession isn't necessarily conclusive, though you can't strictly admit guilt if you don't have any (technically speaking any confession under duress is simply a statement unless it's actually true). But that's not my problem if I convinced the town and got my gold. 😉
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I know that each has its pros and cons and that depending on the situation, if you had both prepared, it would be clear which one to use when. But I'm wondering, if you were only going to prepare one of these, which would it be and why?
A paladin can only get access to Hold Person via their oath (vengeance, conquest or redemption) or multiclassing. In the former case Hold Person is prepared automatically so it is more a question of whether you prepare Command or not. I generally favour preparing Command as it is a useful spell in the hands of a creative player and the few occassions when I've not prepared it, I've regretted it.
That said, of the two my favourite would be Hold Person as it is more useful in combat, being that its effects apply immediately, while the Grovel use of Command doesn't apply until the target takes their turn. Additionally paralyzed is a better condition than prone as all your allies (ranged and melee-based) can benefit from the advantage to attack, while applying prone can make the target harder to hit for ranged allies.
I totally missed that I gained Hold Person and Misty Step as Oath Spells when I reached Level 5! Thanks a bunch!!
Command has wider applications than Hold Person, so it depends on how creative you are. It also affects Any creature who understands a language you speak, not just humanoids. Hold Person is mostly a combat spell and Only affects humanoids. So it really comes down to what you anticipate you will encounter and how well you can improvise solutions.
You're right that most uses of Command are in combat. However, there are certainly urgent situations where using a 1 action spell is better than trying to convince a neutral-to-the-party NPC to take a specific course of action, like running away from a door they are guarding or drop an object they are trying to steal which would be harmful to them if they kept holding onto it. Yes, fisticuffs might ensue anyway, but being commanded to run or to drop something doesn't make somebody automatically loathe the spellcaster the way that paralyzing them does.
Besides the fact that Hold Person only works on humanoids, it's realistically only going to last 1 or 2 rounds and requires your concentration during that time. Meanwhile Command requires no concentration, can achieve similar effects (minus the critical hit part of paralysis) but can also move enemies towards or away from you. It also doesn't have somatic or material components, which is nice if you have both hands full or you like to grapple.
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In combat, I've seen Command be used to...
Its strength is its versatility.
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I know it feels a little off, even if I’m just un p’tit Belge, but it works. English isn’t necessarily a more convenient language for this either. “Release!” doesn’t sound quite right for making someone drop something or let go of something, for instance, but it’s the best one word option I can come up with.
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Confess. Drink. Disarm. Flee. Free. Kneel. Undress…
End of discussion. 😄
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I confess yo momma so fat captain Ahab’s after her.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
A confession is specifically an admission of guilt; in a spell about commanding someone with a word it's the definition of the word that matters, not how much of a prick the person being commanded is.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Sure. I just wanted to make a little joke about Command sometimes being somewhat open to interpretation. Chances are someone has multiple things they are guilty of, for instance. It being one word is a deliberate limitation on Command. The DM shouldn’t be an ass about it, but if a particular situation makes it difficult to find the right command to give they shouldn’t just ignore that limitation either.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
There's also the possibility that it could force someone to confess to a crime they didn't commit. And when Zone of Truth is a thing, that shouldn't be happening.
EDIT:
That said, "Answer" could force someone affected to no longer remain silent.
Why would you disagree? I never said they had to confess what I wanted, I just pointed out that the counterargument doesn't apply, all I said was a few useful words.
That said, given the examples in the spell itself it seems clear it's not intended for the creature to go out of its way to cheat the command; the approach and flee examples state that the creature approach/flees by the fastest and most direct route possible, not by shuffling its feet reluctantly so that it only travels five feet. Halt causes the creature to stop and remain stopped, not stop then immediately resume doing whatever it wants and so-on.
If you're going to use "confess" then you're not going to just yell it out out of nowhere, you'd empower the word, e.g- "You keep leaving dirty dishes in the sink, don't you? CONFESS!"
In such a case it is clear what the command is, despite the actual command being constrained to one word. The spell description is to follow the command, not "you become the Wishmaster and do everything in your power to waste the player's spell". If your DM pulls that kind of crap all the time (and you're not clearly abusing Command on a regular basis), get a new DM. 😝
Now as you say, a magically compelled confession isn't necessarily conclusive, though you can't strictly admit guilt if you don't have any (technically speaking any confession under duress is simply a statement unless it's actually true). But that's not my problem if I convinced the town and got my gold. 😉
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.