When looking at fighting styles how does Blessed Warrior stack up compared to others.
I am currently building a level 5 Oath of Conquest and looking into that as an option. As paladins don't usually have the best options for range attack so take Toll The Dead, this will help do a little damage before I get into range.
With my second option I am looking at Bless to help with out of combat scenarios.
I’m not a fan. Pallys don’t have much ranged options, that’s true, but you can only smite in melee, so you really want to spend your actions getting close to the enemy, not casting at them.
And there’s the opportunity cost, where for your fighting style, you could take something that will buff your ac, or attacks, or other things that will be useful in every fight, possibly in every round of a fight. those are much more useful than a bit of ranged damage that will only happen sometimes. Finally, as I read it, you only get cantrips, so bless from that is not an option, moreover, bless is already on the paladin list, so it would be a bad choice. If you meant guidance, that would be a good choice, if you end up taking the style. Unless someone else already has it. Having someone with guidance is great, having two people with it is rarely needed.
Other then Guidance, Thaumaturgy is a neat little cantrip if you are creative, and Toll the Dead is a great ranged option when needed. Other then that though I'm not sure.
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Guidance is a fantastic cantrip, but how much use you get out of it will depend in part on your DM. It can get annoying in sessions if you have to keep asking "can I use Guidance with this?" so it's better to work out a rough system for when you get to use it.
For example, I'm currently playing a half cleric with Guidance, and I've worked out with my DM that I can basically use it any situation that isn't "immediate" without explicitly declaring it. On that basis they generally just trust me to roll it when it makes sense, but will ask me to remove the bonus if a situation is too sudden for me to have reasonably done so, though this hasn't really happened. For example, I'll roll it with Initiative if my character is the one joining combat (spotted an enemy and moved to intercept) but not if the group is surprised, or someone else initiated a combat. I tend not to roll guidance when attempting certain checks such as persuasion as I tend to think of them as very blunt in their arguments (they expect others to just agree with the truth of their moral code, not realising others may be swayed better by other arguments and such).
There's definitely a line to walk with it as it can feel abusive for other players who can't take it; though you can help with that by occasionally giving guidance to them instead.
As to the meat of the question though; is it a fighting style worth taking… well that's tricky. I'm inclined to say yes, as I feel like Paladins don't really need the extra damage granted by great weapon fighting or duelling, as Divine Smite adds so much more, and is what makes them one of the highest damage classes in the game (especially among martial types), so taking something that adds some out of combat/pre combat utility isn't a bad thing.
Whether it's worth taking a ranged cantrip is also tricky; if your group has ranged characters I wouldn't bother personally, just focus on closing faster. I'd personally lean toward something else that gives utility. I'm a fan of Light if you don't have darkvision, and it's a fun one thematically (use it to impress or intimidate etc.), and it's not actually terrible in combat either as if you can hit a sneaky enemy then nothing limits hiding/invisibility quite like having a light attached to you. Mending is a good utility spell you can usually fish for uses of. Wouldn't bother with Spare the Dying as a decent Medicine bonus or a healer's kit is just as good most of the time.
If you do want a combat cantrip; Toll the Dead is good but may not fit your theme. Personally I really like Sacred Flame though it means doubling down on a damage type you've already got in abundance, but by ignoring cover it doesn't matter so much if your Charisma isn't high. I doubt you'll find yourself using either much before 5th level when they scale up a bit though, as it's better just to get closer and bust some heads.
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It is definatley a fighting Style worth taking with some multiclasses. I play a Druid X/Paladin 2 - all the other Fighting Styles don't really work for me so I took the two extra cantrips.
Nearly every fighting style is a valid option, it simply comes down to what you wish to gain from it and how much mileage can you feasibly get from it. "Blessed Warrior" isn't too different from Magic Initiate in concept so think of it along those lines.
If damage is your main concern then I would say no. Grab some type of bow, gun, javelin etc if you feel you are hurting for ranged options, you don't need cantrips or spells for that.
If you want some versatility/utility then Guidance, Thaumaturgy and Word of Radiance are the standouts to me. The first two don't need much explaining for why their great but Word of Radiance while situational does offer a cheap option for deal with swarms much like Sword Burst which can be a boon if your in a pinch (Scourge Aasimar with Word of Radiance is a sleeper combo that I personally enjoy).
I am currently playing a conquest paladin as well and I find that this is a great option. I always feel like a lot of advice on the boards is about optimization of +1 here and -1 there, but I usually try to weigh the versatility of my selection's value overall in my group. Arguably, my opinion about fighting styles for a paladin is they are pretty wasted. Basically you are choosing +1 AC or...? The other options are cute, but pretty lame in the long run. I chose guidance (the best utility cantrip for RP, assisting other players, and out of combat skill boosting in the game) and Sacred Flame (gives a solid range option that has a save if my longbow accuracy can't do the job).
I see a lot of people pulling for Word of Radiance, but honestly if enemies are that close you will be hitting them with your weapon. Word of Radiance has weak damage and only affects 4 spaces: front, back, left, right. The diagonals are not in its 5 foot AoE. If you are ever surrounded, Word of Radiance is probably never going to be a go-to option especially if you have 2 attacks that could potentially drop an opponent or two. Toll the Dead is another great option, especially thinking of a Conquest, but then you are looking at WIS vs. DEX save. Your saves are based on CHR which you are probably looking to max as fast as hell anyway.
Thaumaturgy is really fun for a Conquest paladin. It would be good for RP depending on your GM and how you see you character using it, but it is more of a color ability than significant game changer.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I don't know a single DM who doesn't count diagonals when it comes to combat but Word of Radiance isn't about kill power, no cantrip is a real killer except a specifically built Eldritch Blast. WoR is better suited to softening up targets in a situation where you are surrounded, so that you can potentially drop enemies with one attack each without needing to burn a spell slot to smite for a similar result. Pick a cantrip just to have a ranged option just seems pointless when you casting score is likely never gonna be as good as you melee. There are plenty of ranged weapons work just fine.
The casting stat might be lower for other kinds of paladins, but the conquest paladin is all about boosting their CHR. Having a ranged option that affects a save is very handy.
If you happen to be in a group playing on a grid, range 5' suddenly is quite noticeable. If it is interpretive at a table, could be nice if it affects every target in 5' melee range.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I have an Oath of the Watcher paladin. Assuming standard array or point buy ability scores, Blessed Warrior is pretty great. I started with STR 15, DEX 10, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 16. At level 4, took the ASI to raise STR and CON one point each.
Taking Guidance and Toll the Dead helps to shore up two areas where paladins can struggle - out of combat skill checks, and having some effective way to attack in that first round if you start combat far away from the enemy just can't get close enough to do anything but maybe throw a javelin. This is especially key in Tier 1 and early Tier 2 play. Very few things resist necrotic damage, Wisdom is often the better target than Dex or Con saves for 5E enemies, and the d8 or d12 damage scales nicely. Also it's a way to consistently hit big dumb things with high AC but low wisdom.
I think people sometimes underestimate how leaning into CHA as the top ability can make for a very viable paladin build. In addition to making your spells more likely to land, it also gives you more spell slots (which means more smites), and a high CHA makes the Aura of Protection way better.
As a tiefling, I also got Thaumaturgy for free; combined with Guidance it really adds a level of out of combat utility to the character. You end up with a martial class half-caster with three cantrips and all other other paladin bells and whistles.
+1 AC is never a bad choice as AC increases are hard to come by in 5E, but Blessed Warrior is more fun and can add more versatility to the paladin.
I think people sometimes underestimate how leaning into CHA as the top ability can make for a very viable paladin build. In addition to making your spells more likely to land, it also gives you more spell slots (which means more smites)
Wait ... did I miss something? How do you get more spell slots?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You don't get extra spell slots. Favoring charisma is really nice on Conquest Paladin, but I wouldn't max it before strength on other oaths.
I like being able to pick up toll the dead a lot. As others have said, hitting off a save instead of an attack can be very good. Between javelins and toll a paladin would be well stocked on backup ranged options. I'm a big sucker for thaumaturgy and its ilk as well. I find blessed warrior (and druidic warrior) very appealing. Defense and Dueling are stronger but only numbers. Blessed warrior adds new abilities to your character. I value that a lot.
I'm not understanding something. A couple of people said it's better to close the gap and get closer to the target if you are out of range. Can't you do both? Movement and cnatrips aren't mutually exclusive. Unless they meant movement spells but Misty Step is a bonus action which is the only spell I know of that paladins get (my knowledge is by no means trustworthy however).
It just feels like Blessed Warrior is an easy way to negate a huge problem with paladins, well at least STR based paladins that dump DEX. I'm starting a Vengeance Paladin soon and am strongly considering this. I played an Ancients Paladin as the first character I ever played and the lack of range was definitely frustrating at times.
I'm not understanding something. A couple of people said it's better to close the gap and get closer to the target if you are out of range. Can't you do both? Movement and cnatrips aren't mutually exclusive.
I was referring to taking the dash action. I get people wanting to use ranged as they close the gap. And I get not liking the idea of just getting right up next to the enemies and then not being able to attack. For me, I’d rather get 30’ closer, and have that extra point of AC from defensive style. Personal preference.
It's really, really good to not have to approach the enemy every single combat. It's hard to quantify just how good that kind of diversity is. It doesn't matter that the ranged options are weaker than your normal routine. It just matters that they are there.
No matter your build there will be plenty of times when the party attacking from range in unison and making the enemy approach is the better tactic. Sometimes your path to the enemy is overly painful or cumbersome. Sometimes you're fighting highly mobile enemies that manage to kite you. There are innumerable corner case scenarios that call for a ranged option from a primary melee. Actually having those options on hand is key. I don't think any melee build should be built without some amount of respect for ranged combat. Javelins are a fine start, but generally won't be magical. Blessed Warrior providing cantrip options is definitely valuable. I'd be looking at it very hard if I was rolling up a paladin as their natural offense and defense are very good but have a glaring weakness in the ranged department.
I'm not understanding something. A couple of people said it's better to close the gap and get closer to the target if you are out of range. Can't you do both? Movement and cnatrips aren't mutually exclusive.
I was referring to taking the dash action. I get people wanting to use ranged as they close the gap. And I get not liking the idea of just getting right up next to the enemies and then not being able to attack. For me, I’d rather get 30’ closer, and have that extra point of AC from defensive style. Personal preference.
That makes total sense. I'm sort of new and did not consider the dash action. Different strokes for different folks.
It's really, really good to not have to approach the enemy every single combat. It's hard to quantify just how good that kind of diversity is. It doesn't matter that the ranged options are weaker than your normal routine. It just matters that they are there.
No matter your build there will be plenty of times when the party attacking from range in unison and making the enemy approach is the better tactic. Sometimes your path to the enemy is overly painful or cumbersome. Sometimes you're fighting highly mobile enemies that manage to kite you. There are innumerable corner case scenarios that call for a ranged option from a primary melee. Actually having those options on hand is key. I don't think any melee build should be built without some amount of respect for ranged combat. Javelins are a fine start, but generally won't be magical. Blessed Warrior providing cantrip options is definitely valuable. I'd be looking at it very hard if I was rolling up a paladin as their natural offense and defense are very good but have a glaring weakness in the ranged department.
This is what I'm considering. I'm really interested in taking this style and both Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead. I want to have options to do damage on demand. Sacred Flame is a DEX save and Toll the Dead is WIS. I should be able to pick and choose one for most enemies if needed. I just feel like none of the other styles provide the usage that this one does. I'm also considering Blind Fighting because it seems fun and Defense for the +1 AC. I do question the benefit of 1 AC especially at higher levels when a lot of to hit folks are well over 20.
I would probably take Toll as my single attack cantrip so I could fit in thaumaturgy. But that's more a personal bias towards that kind of cantrip than anything else. Having two different saves to target will be nice for sure.
Defense is definitely the best it can be at level 1. It never scales with level, while your enemies will. That being said, I'm certainly not trying to argue against its efficacy, or that of dueling as options for a paladin. They're both great. However, I love that Blessed Warrior is not just a numerical boost to abilities you already have, but an introduction of completely new ones.
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When looking at fighting styles how does Blessed Warrior stack up compared to others.
I am currently building a level 5 Oath of Conquest and looking into that as an option. As paladins don't usually have the best options for range attack so take Toll The Dead, this will help do a little damage before I get into range.
With my second option I am looking at Bless to help with out of combat scenarios.
Thoughts and any other recommendations.
I’m not a fan. Pallys don’t have much ranged options, that’s true, but you can only smite in melee, so you really want to spend your actions getting close to the enemy, not casting at them.
And there’s the opportunity cost, where for your fighting style, you could take something that will buff your ac, or attacks, or other things that will be useful in every fight, possibly in every round of a fight. those are much more useful than a bit of ranged damage that will only happen sometimes.
Finally, as I read it, you only get cantrips, so bless from that is not an option, moreover, bless is already on the paladin list, so it would be a bad choice. If you meant guidance, that would be a good choice, if you end up taking the style. Unless someone else already has it. Having someone with guidance is great, having two people with it is rarely needed.
I did mean guidance.
Other then Guidance, Thaumaturgy is a neat little cantrip if you are creative, and Toll the Dead is a great ranged option when needed. Other then that though I'm not sure.
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Guidance is a fantastic cantrip, but how much use you get out of it will depend in part on your DM. It can get annoying in sessions if you have to keep asking "can I use Guidance with this?" so it's better to work out a rough system for when you get to use it.
For example, I'm currently playing a half cleric with Guidance, and I've worked out with my DM that I can basically use it any situation that isn't "immediate" without explicitly declaring it. On that basis they generally just trust me to roll it when it makes sense, but will ask me to remove the bonus if a situation is too sudden for me to have reasonably done so, though this hasn't really happened. For example, I'll roll it with Initiative if my character is the one joining combat (spotted an enemy and moved to intercept) but not if the group is surprised, or someone else initiated a combat. I tend not to roll guidance when attempting certain checks such as persuasion as I tend to think of them as very blunt in their arguments (they expect others to just agree with the truth of their moral code, not realising others may be swayed better by other arguments and such).
There's definitely a line to walk with it as it can feel abusive for other players who can't take it; though you can help with that by occasionally giving guidance to them instead.
As to the meat of the question though; is it a fighting style worth taking… well that's tricky. I'm inclined to say yes, as I feel like Paladins don't really need the extra damage granted by great weapon fighting or duelling, as Divine Smite adds so much more, and is what makes them one of the highest damage classes in the game (especially among martial types), so taking something that adds some out of combat/pre combat utility isn't a bad thing.
Whether it's worth taking a ranged cantrip is also tricky; if your group has ranged characters I wouldn't bother personally, just focus on closing faster. I'd personally lean toward something else that gives utility. I'm a fan of Light if you don't have darkvision, and it's a fun one thematically (use it to impress or intimidate etc.), and it's not actually terrible in combat either as if you can hit a sneaky enemy then nothing limits hiding/invisibility quite like having a light attached to you. Mending is a good utility spell you can usually fish for uses of. Wouldn't bother with Spare the Dying as a decent Medicine bonus or a healer's kit is just as good most of the time.
If you do want a combat cantrip; Toll the Dead is good but may not fit your theme. Personally I really like Sacred Flame though it means doubling down on a damage type you've already got in abundance, but by ignoring cover it doesn't matter so much if your Charisma isn't high. I doubt you'll find yourself using either much before 5th level when they scale up a bit though, as it's better just to get closer and bust some heads.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
It is definatley a fighting Style worth taking with some multiclasses. I play a Druid X/Paladin 2 - all the other Fighting Styles don't really work for me so I took the two extra cantrips.
Nearly every fighting style is a valid option, it simply comes down to what you wish to gain from it and how much mileage can you feasibly get from it. "Blessed Warrior" isn't too different from Magic Initiate in concept so think of it along those lines.
If damage is your main concern then I would say no. Grab some type of bow, gun, javelin etc if you feel you are hurting for ranged options, you don't need cantrips or spells for that.
If you want some versatility/utility then Guidance, Thaumaturgy and Word of Radiance are the standouts to me. The first two don't need much explaining for why their great but Word of Radiance while situational does offer a cheap option for deal with swarms much like Sword Burst which can be a boon if your in a pinch (Scourge Aasimar with Word of Radiance is a sleeper combo that I personally enjoy).
I am currently playing a conquest paladin as well and I find that this is a great option. I always feel like a lot of advice on the boards is about optimization of +1 here and -1 there, but I usually try to weigh the versatility of my selection's value overall in my group. Arguably, my opinion about fighting styles for a paladin is they are pretty wasted. Basically you are choosing +1 AC or...? The other options are cute, but pretty lame in the long run. I chose guidance (the best utility cantrip for RP, assisting other players, and out of combat skill boosting in the game) and Sacred Flame (gives a solid range option that has a save if my longbow accuracy can't do the job).
I see a lot of people pulling for Word of Radiance, but honestly if enemies are that close you will be hitting them with your weapon. Word of Radiance has weak damage and only affects 4 spaces: front, back, left, right. The diagonals are not in its 5 foot AoE. If you are ever surrounded, Word of Radiance is probably never going to be a go-to option especially if you have 2 attacks that could potentially drop an opponent or two. Toll the Dead is another great option, especially thinking of a Conquest, but then you are looking at WIS vs. DEX save. Your saves are based on CHR which you are probably looking to max as fast as hell anyway.
Thaumaturgy is really fun for a Conquest paladin. It would be good for RP depending on your GM and how you see you character using it, but it is more of a color ability than significant game changer.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I don't know a single DM who doesn't count diagonals when it comes to combat but Word of Radiance isn't about kill power, no cantrip is a real killer except a specifically built Eldritch Blast. WoR is better suited to softening up targets in a situation where you are surrounded, so that you can potentially drop enemies with one attack each without needing to burn a spell slot to smite for a similar result. Pick a cantrip just to have a ranged option just seems pointless when you casting score is likely never gonna be as good as you melee. There are plenty of ranged weapons work just fine.
The casting stat might be lower for other kinds of paladins, but the conquest paladin is all about boosting their CHR. Having a ranged option that affects a save is very handy.
If you happen to be in a group playing on a grid, range 5' suddenly is quite noticeable. If it is interpretive at a table, could be nice if it affects every target in 5' melee range.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I have an Oath of the Watcher paladin. Assuming standard array or point buy ability scores, Blessed Warrior is pretty great. I started with STR 15, DEX 10, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 16. At level 4, took the ASI to raise STR and CON one point each.
Taking Guidance and Toll the Dead helps to shore up two areas where paladins can struggle - out of combat skill checks, and having some effective way to attack in that first round if you start combat far away from the enemy just can't get close enough to do anything but maybe throw a javelin. This is especially key in Tier 1 and early Tier 2 play. Very few things resist necrotic damage, Wisdom is often the better target than Dex or Con saves for 5E enemies, and the d8 or d12 damage scales nicely. Also it's a way to consistently hit big dumb things with high AC but low wisdom.
I think people sometimes underestimate how leaning into CHA as the top ability can make for a very viable paladin build. In addition to making your spells more likely to land, it also gives you more spell slots (which means more smites), and a high CHA makes the Aura of Protection way better.
As a tiefling, I also got Thaumaturgy for free; combined with Guidance it really adds a level of out of combat utility to the character. You end up with a martial class half-caster with three cantrips and all other other paladin bells and whistles.
+1 AC is never a bad choice as AC increases are hard to come by in 5E, but Blessed Warrior is more fun and can add more versatility to the paladin.
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Wait ... did I miss something? How do you get more spell slots?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You don't get extra spell slots. Favoring charisma is really nice on Conquest Paladin, but I wouldn't max it before strength on other oaths.
I like being able to pick up toll the dead a lot. As others have said, hitting off a save instead of an attack can be very good. Between javelins and toll a paladin would be well stocked on backup ranged options. I'm a big sucker for thaumaturgy and its ilk as well. I find blessed warrior (and druidic warrior) very appealing. Defense and Dueling are stronger but only numbers. Blessed warrior adds new abilities to your character. I value that a lot.
Sorry - I meant more spells PREPARED, not more slots.
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I'm not understanding something. A couple of people said it's better to close the gap and get closer to the target if you are out of range. Can't you do both? Movement and cnatrips aren't mutually exclusive. Unless they meant movement spells but Misty Step is a bonus action which is the only spell I know of that paladins get (my knowledge is by no means trustworthy however).
It just feels like Blessed Warrior is an easy way to negate a huge problem with paladins, well at least STR based paladins that dump DEX. I'm starting a Vengeance Paladin soon and am strongly considering this. I played an Ancients Paladin as the first character I ever played and the lack of range was definitely frustrating at times.
I was referring to taking the dash action. I get people wanting to use ranged as they close the gap. And I get not liking the idea of just getting right up next to the enemies and then not being able to attack. For me, I’d rather get 30’ closer, and have that extra point of AC from defensive style. Personal preference.
It's really, really good to not have to approach the enemy every single combat. It's hard to quantify just how good that kind of diversity is. It doesn't matter that the ranged options are weaker than your normal routine. It just matters that they are there.
No matter your build there will be plenty of times when the party attacking from range in unison and making the enemy approach is the better tactic. Sometimes your path to the enemy is overly painful or cumbersome. Sometimes you're fighting highly mobile enemies that manage to kite you. There are innumerable corner case scenarios that call for a ranged option from a primary melee. Actually having those options on hand is key. I don't think any melee build should be built without some amount of respect for ranged combat. Javelins are a fine start, but generally won't be magical. Blessed Warrior providing cantrip options is definitely valuable. I'd be looking at it very hard if I was rolling up a paladin as their natural offense and defense are very good but have a glaring weakness in the ranged department.
That makes total sense. I'm sort of new and did not consider the dash action. Different strokes for different folks.
This is what I'm considering. I'm really interested in taking this style and both Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead. I want to have options to do damage on demand. Sacred Flame is a DEX save and Toll the Dead is WIS. I should be able to pick and choose one for most enemies if needed. I just feel like none of the other styles provide the usage that this one does. I'm also considering Blind Fighting because it seems fun and Defense for the +1 AC. I do question the benefit of 1 AC especially at higher levels when a lot of to hit folks are well over 20.
I would probably take Toll as my single attack cantrip so I could fit in thaumaturgy. But that's more a personal bias towards that kind of cantrip than anything else. Having two different saves to target will be nice for sure.
Defense is definitely the best it can be at level 1. It never scales with level, while your enemies will. That being said, I'm certainly not trying to argue against its efficacy, or that of dueling as options for a paladin. They're both great. However, I love that Blessed Warrior is not just a numerical boost to abilities you already have, but an introduction of completely new ones.