A list of animals with pack tactics that everyone should have access to. These are great choices for the conjure animals spell. The pack tactics ability really brings up the hit consistency and works well in conjunction with multiple animals and friendly party members. We have options for CR ratings at 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and 1, and have ground, flying, and swimming options.
Giant Rat, Blood Hawk, Wolf, Reef Shark, Lion, Dire Wolf, and Giant Vulture.
Also, if your DM/group/table is getting upset for some reason about slowing play (which shouldn’t be the case because you should have matched dice for every animal attack, be using average damage, and making quick and straightforward tactical commands), think about using something instead of 8 ground animals (like wolves). Use 8 blood hawks, 2 dire wolves, 2 lions, 4 reef sharks, or 2 giant vultures instead. Your contribution to damage will still be significant with much less clogging of the battlefield.
A list of animals with pack tactics that everyone should have access to. These are great choices for the conjure animals spell. The pack tactics ability really brings up the hit consistency and works well in conjunction with multiple animals and friendly party members. We have options for CR ratings at 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and 1, and have ground, flying, and swimming options.
Giant Rat, Blood Hawk, Wolf, Reef Shark, Lion, Dire Wolf, and Giant Vulture.
Also, if your DM/group/table is getting upset for some reason about slowing play (which shouldn’t be the case because you should have matched dice for every animal attack, be using average damage, and making quick and straightforward tactical commands), think about using something instead of 8 ground animals (like wolves). Use 8 blood hawks, 2 dire wolves, 2 lions, 4 reef sharks, or 2 giant vultures instead. Your contribution to damage will still be significant with much less clogging of the battlefield.
I agree with the "less is more" strategy.
8 creatures for a good percentage of people is going to be a lot to track between health, conditions, attacks etc....
Just shoot for 2-3 creatures and that's generally better imo.
Has anyone compared the new summon spells on a level by level basis against CR one and CR two creatures from conjure animals?
Also, Optimus, I’m generally trying to focus on this one specific spell this thread and not comparing it to options from optional DM dependent allowed books.
Out of combat this spell can also be very useful. Several of the animals available for conjuring speak their own language (and/or understand other languages) and this is a valid choice to learn for a ranger that took favored enemy Beasts. These animals are typically quite intelligent as well, so use that to your advantage for scouting for information about an area or for a location of a creature or creatures. Giant elk, giant eagles, giant vultures, and giant owls, just to name the ones from the player's handbook.
There are several other interactions as well, like how bullywug can communicate simply to frogs and toads using the bullywug language. Could a ranger if they spoke bullywug?
The cost of using it as a translator service is not great value Imo...
Especially since Tashas option Primal Awareness gives you beast speech for free.
And that's a 1st level spell so it's easier to justify it's use.
A couple of things, Tasha's is optional content, so not necessarily an option. Second, there is a huge difference between speaking with eight intelligent giant owls in their own tongue which are under your control and speaking with a crow using speak with animals. Also, justifying its use any of these ways is justified if the situation justifies it. If you are wanting to look for something or someone in a large area and want to get good information back, all very quickly, it would 100% justify this as a use of this spell. Is a paladin casting create food and water a good use of their 3rd level slot? Yeah. In combat? No. It's all relative, Optimus. Think outside the box.
Overall if you are at the level that you can comfortably use your best combat spell to scout (in which you cannot see through their senses or even communicate with them to come back) then the others in the party likely have a better method available unless you are in an all martial party.
I would never waste the spell on this unless I had several 3rd level slots to gamble on.
I applaud the effort to make it more than just combat relevant but Imo in the time frame you get it it's just not a great option anymore.
I would like to point out again that this is showing how a ranger and their spells can cover quite a lot of function and party roles, in and out of combat. Seeing as how such a common response to a ranger function is this class or that subclass or one spell or another can do the same thing.
Using conjur animals as a scouting tool is solid ranger tactic - in the exploration leg. I understand your opposition to it optimus - you seem to have almost no interest in that leg so that use is wasted on you. The other problem is that the scouting calls for 2 spells minimum - conjure animals to get the giant eagles(2), owls, elk, etc and speak with animals (L1) at the end to get their report. Sadly they all had nderstand common and something else but don’t speak without magic. For a ranger the return of the conjured critter is easy - point to the sun and then to the position it would be at in about 45-50 minutes (or less maybe 20-30 min) saying “ come back when the sun has moved from there ( present place) to there ( spot to return at) if it’s owls at night ( best use) pick a star or a moon. If your doing this in the evening as you set up camp you should be able to get a pretty good read on almost anything in a 1-12 mile range that might be problematic during the night. Used in conjunction with primeval awareness this is a very powerful means of scouting at least the nearby region around the party as camp is being set.
I wasn’t very clear earlier, but the animals I listed above all have an intelligence score of 6 or higher and all nativity speak and understand a language that is available for a ranger to take with their favored enemy Beast choice. So only 1 3rd level spell slot would be needed.
Better check again Frank, I just looked here and in the complete reference for 5e monster listings and the giant eagle, owl, elk, and vulture all understand but can’t speak - in older editions they could but no longer it seems
Better check again Frank, I just looked here and in the complete reference for 5e monster listings and the giant eagle, owl, elk, and vulture all understand but can’t speak - in older editions they could but no longer it seems
What is the “complete reference for 5e monster listings”? Do you mean the Monster Manual? Or the back of the Player’s Handbook?
As an option aside from those languages or a second spell, a forest gnome do do something similar as could a ranger with 2 levels in shepherd druid, although that is also an optional rule book. Just like Tasha’s is an optional rule book.
If you took favored enemy beasts at level 1 or level 6 along with one of the beast spoken languages and don’t want to wait until level 9 (or use the 3rd level spell slot) to cast conjure animals, Locate Animals or Plants (the unsung hero of the nature spell lists) has your back.
Ok I’m blind 😳 no the complete reference is a different app I downloaded that has the monsters, spells etc in a format that’s often faster to access than in DDB. I have the monster manual in hard copy but I don’t DM enough to spend the extra 30$ here so I use the other app to look up monsters and sometimes spells. When playing I also have the spell cards from the PHB, XANTHARS, Tasha and the ranger set and select out the ones the character knows ahead of time.
If you have their language it’s beautiful, if not it’s a first and third level spell, if you have them available as your setting up camp. Of the 3 I think I would take giant owl, they have advantage on hearing and sight perception checks as well As dark vision. They are slower but you get more of them so they can do a better scouting sweep in the time available.
A list of animals with pack tactics that everyone should have access to. These are great choices for the conjure animals spell. The pack tactics ability really brings up the hit consistency and works well in conjunction with multiple animals and friendly party members. We have options for CR ratings at 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and 1, and have ground, flying, and swimming options.
Giant Rat, Blood Hawk, Wolf, Reef Shark, Lion, Dire Wolf, and Giant Vulture.
Also, if your DM/group/table is getting upset for some reason about slowing play (which shouldn’t be the case because you should have matched dice for every animal attack, be using average damage, and making quick and straightforward tactical commands), think about using something instead of 8 ground animals (like wolves). Use 8 blood hawks, 2 dire wolves, 2 lions, 4 reef sharks, or 2 giant vultures instead. Your contribution to damage will still be significant with much less clogging of the battlefield.
I agree with the "less is more" strategy.
8 creatures for a good percentage of people is going to be a lot to track between health, conditions, attacks etc....
Just shoot for 2-3 creatures and that's generally better imo.
Even better just go with the summon spells
Has anyone compared the new summon spells on a level by level basis against CR one and CR two creatures from conjure animals?
Also, Optimus, I’m generally trying to focus on this one specific spell this thread and not comparing it to options from optional DM dependent allowed books.
Out of combat this spell can also be very useful. Several of the animals available for conjuring speak their own language (and/or understand other languages) and this is a valid choice to learn for a ranger that took favored enemy Beasts. These animals are typically quite intelligent as well, so use that to your advantage for scouting for information about an area or for a location of a creature or creatures. Giant elk, giant eagles, giant vultures, and giant owls, just to name the ones from the player's handbook.
There are several other interactions as well, like how bullywug can communicate simply to frogs and toads using the bullywug language. Could a ranger if they spoke bullywug?
The cost of using it as a translator service is not great value Imo...
Especially since Tashas option Primal Awareness gives you beast speech for free.
And that's a 1st level spell so it's easier to justify it's use.
A couple of things, Tasha's is optional content, so not necessarily an option. Second, there is a huge difference between speaking with eight intelligent giant owls in their own tongue which are under your control and speaking with a crow using speak with animals. Also, justifying its use any of these ways is justified if the situation justifies it. If you are wanting to look for something or someone in a large area and want to get good information back, all very quickly, it would 100% justify this as a use of this spell. Is a paladin casting create food and water a good use of their 3rd level slot? Yeah. In combat? No. It's all relative, Optimus. Think outside the box.
Overall if you are at the level that you can comfortably use your best combat spell to scout (in which you cannot see through their senses or even communicate with them to come back) then the others in the party likely have a better method available unless you are in an all martial party.
I would never waste the spell on this unless I had several 3rd level slots to gamble on.
I applaud the effort to make it more than just combat relevant but Imo in the time frame you get it it's just not a great option anymore.
Well, to each their own.
I would like to point out again that this is showing how a ranger and their spells can cover quite a lot of function and party roles, in and out of combat. Seeing as how such a common response to a ranger function is this class or that subclass or one spell or another can do the same thing.
Using conjur animals as a scouting tool is solid ranger tactic - in the exploration leg. I understand your opposition to it optimus - you seem to have almost no interest in that leg so that use is wasted on you. The other problem is that the scouting calls for 2 spells minimum - conjure animals to get the giant eagles(2), owls, elk, etc and speak with animals (L1) at the end to get their report. Sadly they all had nderstand common and something else but don’t speak without magic. For a ranger the return of the conjured critter is easy - point to the sun and then to the position it would be at in about 45-50 minutes (or less maybe 20-30 min) saying “ come back when the sun has moved from there ( present place) to there ( spot to return at) if it’s owls at night ( best use) pick a star or a moon. If your doing this in the evening as you set up camp you should be able to get a pretty good read on almost anything in a 1-12 mile range that might be problematic during the night. Used in conjunction with primeval awareness this is a very powerful means of scouting at least the nearby region around the party as camp is being set.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I wasn’t very clear earlier, but the animals I listed above all have an intelligence score of 6 or higher and all nativity speak and understand a language that is available for a ranger to take with their favored enemy Beast choice. So only 1 3rd level spell slot would be needed.
Better check again Frank, I just looked here and in the complete reference for 5e monster listings and the giant eagle, owl, elk, and vulture all understand but can’t speak - in older editions they could but no longer it seems
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
“Languages Giant Owl , understands Common, Elvish, and Sylvan but can’t speak them”
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/giant-owl
“Languages Giant Eagle , understands Common and Auran but can't speak them”
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/giant-eagle
“Languages Giant Elk , understands Common, Elvish, and Sylvan but can't speak them”
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/giant-elk
Giant vultures can understand but not speak a language.
The other three all speak a native language and understand several others.
One of them has an intelligence of 7, the other two have an intelligence of 8. So they and the barbarian could play chess for an hour.
What is the “complete reference for 5e monster listings”? Do you mean the Monster Manual? Or the back of the Player’s Handbook?
As an option aside from those languages or a second spell, a forest gnome do do something similar as could a ranger with 2 levels in shepherd druid, although that is also an optional rule book. Just like Tasha’s is an optional rule book.
If you took favored enemy beasts at level 1 or level 6 along with one of the beast spoken languages and don’t want to wait until level 9 (or use the 3rd level spell slot) to cast conjure animals, Locate Animals or Plants (the unsung hero of the nature spell lists) has your back.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/locate-animals-or-plants
Ok I’m blind 😳 no the complete reference is a different app I downloaded that has the monsters, spells etc in a format that’s often faster to access than in DDB. I have the monster manual in hard copy but I don’t DM enough to spend the extra 30$ here so I use the other app to look up monsters and sometimes spells. When playing I also have the spell cards from the PHB, XANTHARS, Tasha and the ranger set and select out the ones the character knows ahead of time.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
If you have their language it’s beautiful, if not it’s a first and third level spell, if you have them available as your setting up camp. Of the 3 I think I would take giant owl, they have advantage on hearing and sight perception checks as well As dark vision. They are slower but you get more of them so they can do a better scouting sweep in the time available.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I tend to build my rangers around the nature warden trope pretty hard, so this isn’t as niche a setup for me as it is for others.