Many of us here in the ranger forum have complained about the lack of focus on the third leg for DMs and players alike. So I’m opening this thread up for questions and suggestions from the assembled experts. I’ll be posting here as well with tips on real world survival and game play ideas but I’m hoping to see lots of stuff from others that I know are here from earlier discussions. the first thing I want to put here is a spell the ranger should have but doesn’t officially so you’ll have to homebrew this sadly. L1: purify food and drink second Are some tools you should have on you in order to stand a decent chance of survival: A large single edged chopping knife like a 10-15” Bowie, a good hand axe - this not really for weapon use though it could also function as one, Flint and steel and tinder - yes you could do this with spells but why when basic skills work fine. With those 3 tools and the ranger’s skills he is ready to survive in almost any circumstances. Now it’s your turn for questions and suggestions.
Piece of advice #1. Actually do the survival. If its more than a day's journey, then ask how they set up camp, ask how/what they eat. Have them roll survival to not get lost.
That noise in the woods when they're setting up camp? If they set a watch; just a cat. If they don't; Ancient Red Dragon 😈
But yeah, best way to have players take the exploration/survival side seriously is to make them painfully aware of the costs for not doing it; have them starting to starve if they don't buy or forage for food, have them ambushed in the night if they don't assign a watch, or have them getting cold if they don't carry or find firewood and so-on.
This is really all on the DM though; a player can try to fish for it by proposing to setup camp and see if they can get other players (and thus the DM) onboard though.
On the other hand, don't make it too much of a chore; if they're just travelling a road between two towns, maybe do an encounter but skip survival, but if they're in the wilderness there should be a lot more survival.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
1. I like the idea of using the ample long rests to the DM's advantage. This is your chance to throw a really deadly challenge at the players because they are (theoretically) fully rested and will rest afterwards. Combine a combat encounter with an environment encounter. Wilderness travel is the PERFECT place to have the party encounter a dragon.
2. Make AMPLE use of difficult terrain and even worse (like the plant growth spell) make it mechanically clear they are not walking and skipping along on perfect flat surfaces. Use cover. Use light obscurement. Use perception (all perception, vision, hearing, smell, sight), the survival skill, and other abilities (light primeval awareness) to start combat encounters using surprise and ample distances apart. Use animals like companions (handbook companions have outstanding perception bonuses!), speak with animals, and other nature and divination abilities/spells to get around.
3. Don't give the party a destination. Give them a rough idea of where the goal might be. MAKE them HAVE to interact with the world to find what they are seeking.
4. Put things in the world found/encountered through travel and exploration.
5. Most of all, make time a factor. Travel means much less when they have all of the time in the world. Think of your favorite story. A book, movie, show, play, whatever, and see if time did NOT play a major role in the tension. Time is very important.
“3. Don't give the party a destination. Give them a rough idea of where the goal might be. MAKE them HAVE to interact with the world to find what they are seeking.”
even if you give them a destination make them work for it. Let’s be real for a minute - if it’s common knowledge exactly where the place is then odds are it is explored so regularly there is little or nothing left - unless, like Undermountain, it is constantly being restocked on purpose by someone/something you really don’t want to mess with. So just to find the place even if a general area is known they are going to have to explore and survive in the wild for a few days. Next, unless you have a major time constraint do you really want to go in through a (probably) well defended front door? I try to find a back entrance that is easier and safer and that means exploring around the location. This may include watching for raiding parties coming and going etc. That may lead to planning ambushes of the parties ( preferably as they leave so their absence won’t be missed for a while) to thin the ranks of defenders once your in. This means planning to stay a while and that means bringing extra food etc as well as pack animals and maybe even a few camp guards (hirelings) .Amazing how this grows isn’t it.😳😁
Those same raiding parties could discover your camp in the middle of the night if your not being careful - punishing the party for not prepping properly. 1e was very good with this because every class could attract lower level followers at around 10th level and they became your camp guards while the big boys took on the dungeon, they took on the wilds around the camp and you could actually have a double run campaign following both.
“4. Put things in the world found/encountered through travel and exploration.“
As a DM a major piece of your job is world building - do your job! Whether your doing a version of the Forgotten Realms, any of the other pregen worlds or your own creation make and use the lore of the world to help you. If your party is exploring the FR high forest you have 10k years of creator races and dragons that may have left traces before the elves and then 17k years of elven history in the area before it was abandoned at the end of the crown wars. That’s a lot of history, places and “stuff” to work with to keep the party adventuring for years. Are they going to do deep dives in all of it right now? Of course not but there are opportunities for tons of latter adventures as follow ons. Let’s say you’ve been hired (as a party) to find out what is actually at the top of the Star Mounts. You have a time constraint though not an immediate one. Your starting out in early spring and have to be back by start of winter so you have about 6-8 months of time depending on weather. Who knows how many different ruins you will come across as you search for paths to and up the star mounts. Even if most only function as camps for the night there may be denizens (good and bad) to interact with as well as rewards from even a cursory exploration. ( I recall an elven ghost sorceress that inhabits her ruins of an ancient home because she can’t bear to leave it. If you tear down some of the structure she attacks with abilities and spells, but if you rebuild the place a bit she is friendly and sometimes even helpful depending on how much rebuilding you do.)
I find rewarding using skills and tools. I like to add encounters that focus on side things. Try adding natural disaster situations where there is no enemy to even fight. have the party start treating burns, diseases and famine on a scale that cant be solved by just a few spell slots thrown out. most things a spell can do can also be done mundanely. have a reasonable amount with a lot of variety so every character can do something but the real rewards come from those who plan and use their skills smarts. Then the dm needs to show a direct connection between good rolls and smart choices and successful adventuring.
sometimes I will just pick a random skill/tool/or spell and place a person (that the party will interact with) that needs "the solution" fast. IF the party has it great they get a minor reward. If the party doesn't solve it quickly someone will show up and get the minor reward instead. Players will usually then get jealous and/or start seeing value in "Useless" choices. either way it gets player creative juices flowing and adds to better play.
And one of those often overlooked “tools” is often simple string. Whether for fishing line, snares, alarms, etc a good supply of string is, while not absolutely essential, a very highly recommended light weight, incredibly useful material to have out in the wilderness. IF a DM wants his players to enjoy the outdoor leg they have to reward them for playing it up if it is something the character has. So if a character has the nature and survival skills you have to give them opportunities to use those skills and then reward them. If you put an Owlbear out there as a possible random monster and the ranger spots the tracks and is able to steer the party around it so there is no encounter then the ranger needs to be given the experience for that encounter. One or two times getting such rewards can make a world of difference in the player’s interest in using the wilderness skills.
I want to share that I purchased the WotC wilderness kit DM screen. It is very nice! Is it a complete set of flushed out rules for travel, survival, and exploration? Nope. But it does do a pretty good job of putting most of what you want/need to run that pillar all in one place. DM screens serve little use for me from a reference perspective, as they tend to have the most common things on them that at least I already have forever burnt into my brain, but this screen is beautiful, nice matte finish, has all of the best stuff referenced, and a few handouts/referance sheets are very nice.
If you have a few units of your local currency burning a hole in your pocket, and decided that Critical Roll has enough of your money already, I highly recommend picking yourself up a copy from your FLGS.
I would also like to add that I find the idea of a very clear and concise, thoroughly flushed out, set of rules, operations, and procedures for running, time, travel, exploration, and survival be be a real turn off for me. A big part of this part of the game that is fun for me is the lack of that kind of specificity. There is enough of that in combat already. I like the idea of this pillar of the game being able to be tailored to the needs of the DM, players, specific table or group, event, or story at hand at a given moment. And although this may "weaken" rangers and others subclasses, classes, spells, and abilities that focus on this pillar for many, it really makes it all the more interesting for me. Not every ability or spell can or should be used all of the time.
I’ve been meaning to pick myself up a copy but hadn’t yet so it’s nice to hear you like it. I agree it’s nice to have it all in one place even if I don’t use it all all the time.
This all comes down to the table. If your group enjoys doing travel and survival, then you can cut loose. If they don't enjoy that and just want to slay monsters and count their gold, then you're going to have to be creative.
I enjoy camping. I have all the stuff on my cargo list that I would want if I was going to make an overland journey and be comfortable. I also have string and small bells, and extra rope, and other things to set up traps and alarms when I don't wish to be surprised. I have a tent and an extra tarp. I have feed for my mount and rations in case I can't find food this one day. I have a bedroll and an extra two blankets. I have a quarter staff which I use as a hiking stick, and a weapon if necessary. I have bags of spices to flavor my food on the trail, or to trade with humanoids that I meet on the trail. Gold doesn't have much value when there isn't a trading post for three days. So if your table like travel, have some fun talking about basic camping, then creative ideas for setting watch and then serous survival situations.
Good luck.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I finally picked up a copy of the wilderness DM screen and it is very good I hstill have to really go over it a couple of times but it does seem to come with pretty much everything you need.
I finally picked up a copy of the wilderness DM screen and it is very good I hstill have to really go over it a couple of times but it does seem to come with pretty much everything you need.
I think so much on the other screens is stuff that is either well known already or easy enough to adjudicate. I love my wilderness kit! Although I got rid of all of the punch out stuff.
For those tables that are heavily combat encounter focused, travel between locations can be a fun change of pace from their norm.
A common adventuring day, like a dungeon crawl, castle exploration, or what have you, revolves around combat encounters being parsed out over time and played alongside and balanced with resource management of combat spells and abilities. Out in the world traveling to a destination lacks that kind of management. Some say that’s bad. But I say, use that as a chance to have big, one a day, go all out, super deadly combat encounters. A roaming dragon (I hear there’s a new book out about dragons 😉), a group of hungry, greedy, and vicious mercenaries, demons pouring out from an extra planar portal, a pack of rabid dire wolves, evil mutated plants, the list goes on and on. Make these encounters as tough as can be. Give the players a chance to go all out and use all of their amazing abilities. Make notes for yourself as to what each character does that is awesome in combat and make sure that is able to happen for each character.
This kind of play can get lost in a dungeon dive, temple exploration, or other more common adventuring day. Use the days or weeks long travel as a time to let the characters really shine.
Many of us here in the ranger forum have complained about the lack of focus on the third leg for DMs and players alike. So I’m opening this thread up for questions and suggestions from the assembled experts. I’ll be posting here as well with tips on real world survival and game play ideas but I’m hoping to see lots of stuff from others that I know are here from earlier discussions.
the first thing I want to put here is a spell the ranger should have but doesn’t officially so you’ll have to homebrew this sadly.
L1: purify food and drink
second Are some tools you should have on you in order to stand a decent chance of survival: A large single edged chopping knife like a 10-15” Bowie, a good hand axe - this not really for weapon use though it could also function as one, Flint and steel and tinder - yes you could do this with spells but why when basic skills work fine. With those 3 tools and the ranger’s skills he is ready to survive in almost any circumstances. Now it’s your turn for questions and suggestions.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Piece of advice #1. Actually do the survival. If its more than a day's journey, then ask how they set up camp, ask how/what they eat. Have them roll survival to not get lost.
Punish them for not setting a watch.
That noise in the woods when they're setting up camp? If they set a watch; just a cat. If they don't; Ancient Red Dragon 😈
But yeah, best way to have players take the exploration/survival side seriously is to make them painfully aware of the costs for not doing it; have them starting to starve if they don't buy or forage for food, have them ambushed in the night if they don't assign a watch, or have them getting cold if they don't carry or find firewood and so-on.
This is really all on the DM though; a player can try to fish for it by proposing to setup camp and see if they can get other players (and thus the DM) onboard though.
On the other hand, don't make it too much of a chore; if they're just travelling a road between two towns, maybe do an encounter but skip survival, but if they're in the wilderness there should be a lot more survival.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
1. I like the idea of using the ample long rests to the DM's advantage. This is your chance to throw a really deadly challenge at the players because they are (theoretically) fully rested and will rest afterwards. Combine a combat encounter with an environment encounter. Wilderness travel is the PERFECT place to have the party encounter a dragon.
2. Make AMPLE use of difficult terrain and even worse (like the plant growth spell) make it mechanically clear they are not walking and skipping along on perfect flat surfaces. Use cover. Use light obscurement. Use perception (all perception, vision, hearing, smell, sight), the survival skill, and other abilities (light primeval awareness) to start combat encounters using surprise and ample distances apart. Use animals like companions (handbook companions have outstanding perception bonuses!), speak with animals, and other nature and divination abilities/spells to get around.
3. Don't give the party a destination. Give them a rough idea of where the goal might be. MAKE them HAVE to interact with the world to find what they are seeking.
4. Put things in the world found/encountered through travel and exploration.
5. Most of all, make time a factor. Travel means much less when they have all of the time in the world. Think of your favorite story. A book, movie, show, play, whatever, and see if time did NOT play a major role in the tension. Time is very important.
“3. Don't give the party a destination. Give them a rough idea of where the goal might be. MAKE them HAVE to interact with the world to find what they are seeking.”
even if you give them a destination make them work for it. Let’s be real for a minute - if it’s common knowledge exactly where the place is then odds are it is explored so regularly there is little or nothing left - unless, like Undermountain, it is constantly being restocked on purpose by someone/something you really don’t want to mess with. So just to find the place even if a general area is known they are going to have to explore and survive in the wild for a few days.
Next, unless you have a major time constraint do you really want to go in through a (probably) well defended front door? I try to find a back entrance that is easier and safer and that means exploring around the location. This may include watching for raiding parties coming and going etc. That may lead to planning ambushes of the parties ( preferably as they leave so their absence won’t be missed for a while) to thin the ranks of defenders once your in.
This means planning to stay a while and that means bringing extra food etc as well as pack animals and maybe even a few camp guards (hirelings) .Amazing how this grows isn’t it.😳😁
Those same raiding parties could discover your camp in the middle of the night if your not being careful - punishing the party for not prepping properly. 1e was very good with this because every class could attract lower level followers at around 10th level and they became your camp guards while the big boys took on the dungeon, they took on the wilds around the camp and you could actually have a double run campaign following both.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
“4. Put things in the world found/encountered through travel and exploration.“
As a DM a major piece of your job is world building - do your job! Whether your doing a version of the Forgotten Realms, any of the other pregen worlds or your own creation make and use the lore of the world to help you. If your party is exploring the FR high forest you have 10k years of creator races and dragons that may have left traces before the elves and then 17k years of elven history in the area before it was abandoned at the end of the crown wars. That’s a lot of history, places and “stuff” to work with to keep the party adventuring for years. Are they going to do deep dives in all of it right now? Of course not but there are opportunities for tons of latter adventures as follow ons. Let’s say you’ve been hired (as a party) to find out what is actually at the top of the Star Mounts. You have a time constraint though not an immediate one. Your starting out in early spring and have to be back by start of winter so you have about 6-8 months of time depending on weather. Who knows how many different ruins you will come across as you search for paths to and up the star mounts. Even if most only function as camps for the night there may be denizens (good and bad) to interact with as well as rewards from even a cursory exploration. ( I recall an elven ghost sorceress that inhabits her ruins of an ancient home because she can’t bear to leave it. If you tear down some of the structure she attacks with abilities and spells, but if you rebuild the place a bit she is friendly and sometimes even helpful depending on how much rebuilding you do.)
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I find rewarding using skills and tools. I like to add encounters that focus on side things. Try adding natural disaster situations where there is no enemy to even fight. have the party start treating burns, diseases and famine on a scale that cant be solved by just a few spell slots thrown out. most things a spell can do can also be done mundanely. have a reasonable amount with a lot of variety so every character can do something but the real rewards come from those who plan and use their skills smarts. Then the dm needs to show a direct connection between good rolls and smart choices and successful adventuring.
sometimes I will just pick a random skill/tool/or spell and place a person (that the party will interact with) that needs "the solution" fast. IF the party has it great they get a minor reward. If the party doesn't solve it quickly someone will show up and get the minor reward instead. Players will usually then get jealous and/or start seeing value in "Useless" choices. either way it gets player creative juices flowing and adds to better play.
And one of those often overlooked “tools” is often simple string. Whether for fishing line, snares, alarms, etc a good supply of string is, while not absolutely essential, a very highly recommended light weight, incredibly useful material to have out in the wilderness.
IF a DM wants his players to enjoy the outdoor leg they have to reward them for playing it up if it is something the character has. So if a character has the nature and survival skills you have to give them opportunities to use those skills and then reward them. If you put an Owlbear out there as a possible random monster and the ranger spots the tracks and is able to steer the party around it so there is no encounter then the ranger needs to be given the experience for that encounter. One or two times getting such rewards can make a world of difference in the player’s interest in using the wilderness skills.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I want to share that I purchased the WotC wilderness kit DM screen. It is very nice! Is it a complete set of flushed out rules for travel, survival, and exploration? Nope. But it does do a pretty good job of putting most of what you want/need to run that pillar all in one place. DM screens serve little use for me from a reference perspective, as they tend to have the most common things on them that at least I already have forever burnt into my brain, but this screen is beautiful, nice matte finish, has all of the best stuff referenced, and a few handouts/referance sheets are very nice.
If you have a few units of your local currency burning a hole in your pocket, and decided that Critical Roll has enough of your money already, I highly recommend picking yourself up a copy from your FLGS.
I would also like to add that I find the idea of a very clear and concise, thoroughly flushed out, set of rules, operations, and procedures for running, time, travel, exploration, and survival be be a real turn off for me. A big part of this part of the game that is fun for me is the lack of that kind of specificity. There is enough of that in combat already. I like the idea of this pillar of the game being able to be tailored to the needs of the DM, players, specific table or group, event, or story at hand at a given moment. And although this may "weaken" rangers and others subclasses, classes, spells, and abilities that focus on this pillar for many, it really makes it all the more interesting for me. Not every ability or spell can or should be used all of the time.
I’ve been meaning to pick myself up a copy but hadn’t yet so it’s nice to hear you like it. I agree it’s nice to have it all in one place even if I don’t use it all all the time.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
This all comes down to the table. If your group enjoys doing travel and survival, then you can cut loose. If they don't enjoy that and just want to slay monsters and count their gold, then you're going to have to be creative.
I enjoy camping. I have all the stuff on my cargo list that I would want if I was going to make an overland journey and be comfortable. I also have string and small bells, and extra rope, and other things to set up traps and alarms when I don't wish to be surprised. I have a tent and an extra tarp. I have feed for my mount and rations in case I can't find food this one day. I have a bedroll and an extra two blankets. I have a quarter staff which I use as a hiking stick, and a weapon if necessary. I have bags of spices to flavor my food on the trail, or to trade with humanoids that I meet on the trail. Gold doesn't have much value when there isn't a trading post for three days. So if your table like travel, have some fun talking about basic camping, then creative ideas for setting watch and then serous survival situations.
Good luck.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I finally picked up a copy of the wilderness DM screen and it is very good I hstill have to really go over it a couple of times but it does seem to come with pretty much everything you need.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I think so much on the other screens is stuff that is either well known already or easy enough to adjudicate. I love my wilderness kit! Although I got rid of all of the punch out stuff.
For those tables that are heavily combat encounter focused, travel between locations can be a fun change of pace from their norm.
A common adventuring day, like a dungeon crawl, castle exploration, or what have you, revolves around combat encounters being parsed out over time and played alongside and balanced with resource management of combat spells and abilities. Out in the world traveling to a destination lacks that kind of management. Some say that’s bad. But I say, use that as a chance to have big, one a day, go all out, super deadly combat encounters. A roaming dragon (I hear there’s a new book out about dragons 😉), a group of hungry, greedy, and vicious mercenaries, demons pouring out from an extra planar portal, a pack of rabid dire wolves, evil mutated plants, the list goes on and on. Make these encounters as tough as can be. Give the players a chance to go all out and use all of their amazing abilities. Make notes for yourself as to what each character does that is awesome in combat and make sure that is able to happen for each character.
This kind of play can get lost in a dungeon dive, temple exploration, or other more common adventuring day. Use the days or weeks long travel as a time to let the characters really shine.