To any one saying a ranger might miss with ensnaring strike. I think you need to remember this is going to be a ranged ranger with high dex and probably archery fighting style. So stealth will be good for advantage. + 2 to hit. "Back row" fighting so less likely to need con higher than wisdom. Multi-attack for two chances to hit on the casting turn. Possibly with magic bows, arrows or bracers of Archery.
Even without magic items you will hit most of the time. Also, A ranger is more likely to know what creatures will have higher str-saves making its use tactical.
One thing to note with ensnaring strike and archery - it can be used on flying/airborne creatures and entangle can’t.
im not sure I see why you can’t use it more than once since you can keep concentrating on it for upto a minute. I get that part of that is to deal with missing all attacks in round 1+ but what if I chose to keep concentrating after I hit a flying creature? If it makes it’s save then nothing happens and it’s the same as a miss. If it fails it’s restrained and falls taking falling damage and possibly dying while I’m still concentrating on the spell - then I can see the spell ending as I have to surrender concentration to lose the vines on the dead creature before casting again for the next shot(s).
One thing to note with ensnaring strike and archery - it can be used on flying/airborne creatures and entangle can’t.
im not sure I see why you can’t use it more than once since you can keep concentrating on it for upto a minute. I get that part of that is to deal with missing all attacks in round 1+ but what if I chose to keep concentrating after I hit a flying creature? If it makes it’s save then nothing happens and it’s the same as a miss. If it fails it’s restrained and falls taking falling damage and possibly dying while I’m still concentrating on the spell - then I can see the spell ending as I have to surrender concentration to lose the vines on the dead creature before casting again for the next shot(s).
Are you thinking you should be allowed to redirect it after your target drops to zero, similar to Hunter's mark?
One thing to note with ensnaring strike and archery - it can be used on flying/airborne creatures and entangle can’t.
im not sure I see why you can’t use it more than once since you can keep concentrating on it for upto a minute. I get that part of that is to deal with missing all attacks in round 1+ but what if I chose to keep concentrating after I hit a flying creature? If it makes it’s save then nothing happens and it’s the same as a miss. If it fails it’s restrained and falls taking falling damage and possibly dying while I’m still concentrating on the spell - then I can see the spell ending as I have to surrender concentration to lose the vines on the dead creature before casting again for the next shot(s).
It is true that Ensnaring Strike doesn't explicitly say it ends when the target succeeds its save or is otherwise freed from the vines. However a creature succeeding its save is not the same as missing the attack entirely. Ensnaring Strike triggers "The next time you hit . . ." after casting the spell. After the trigger has occurred there is no way to trigger Ensnaring Strike again even if the spell doesn't end RAW.
Compare Ensnaring Strike to something like Elemental Weapon. If Ensnaring Strike was intended to trigger multiple times then it would simply say "When you hit . . ." Instead of "The next time you hit . . .".
Also consider Searing Smite. This spell does say that it ends when the creature makes its save. However what if the creature fails? Do you continue to do an extra 1d6 fire damage when you hit the creature with a melee weapon? What if you attack and hit a different creature?
Yeah. It's not hunter's mark. Not all spells and effects in the game, maybe not even half, are save for half type of things. Guiding bolt, sleep, charm person, etc. It is not uncommon for a spell (especially at this level) to be a "roll of the dice" for it to work or not work. Love it or hate it, ensnaring strike is an effect (potent if it sticks) that takes a hit with a weapon (not tough for an archer ranger) and a failed saving throw, possibly rolled at advantage. It is an upcastable 1d6 damage and the restrained on the target if it works, along with anything else that a ranger's attack action can bring to the table, including magic weapon/items and subclass damage. Also for this current conversation we are talking about additional falling damage on top of that. If a paladin's divine smite incentivizes you to use it on a critical hit and/or against fiends and undead, a ranger's ensnaring strike spell incentivizes you to use it against flying creatures, which is both thematically and mechanically appropriate for both paladins and rangers.
If my ranger has a spell slot left at the end of the day, or if it is the day before we head into an adventure, I cast Goodberry before bed. They last 24 hours, and you can cast it again in the morning and start the day with 20 Goodberries in your pocket.
If my ranger has a spell slot left at the end of the day, or if it is the day before we head into an adventure, I cast Goodberry before bed. They last 24 hours, and you can cast it again in the morning and start the day with 20 Goodberries in your pocket.
Thanks, I actually took Goodberry instead of the other two, and I`ve been doing the exact same thing that u r describing!
Absolutely loving it! First time I used it like this I had 3 unused slots... and we actually spent more than 20 berries before we entered any combat (bad rolls... :D). My character started to feel like a drug dealer when suddenly every other character was in need of a berry or a few :D
It`s much better suited for my role in the campaign. Also took summon beast instead of spike growth, feels cool for my primal companion now has a buddy:)
I think Ensnaring strike is better in terms of action economy. With a failed save the enemy loses at least one action entirely while you used a bonus action to cast it.
With entangle you use an action and then if the enemy fails uses an action to try to break it. This means it is one action to break even and unless the enemy fails 2 saves there is no net gain for the character casting it. If the enemy makes his first save it is a wasted action and wasted slot, where in the case of ES it is only a wasted bonus and wasted spell slot.
If there is more than 1 enemy in the area that can change, and it also has the difficult terrain effect but those are more than countered by the friendly fire potential and extra damage. Ensnaring strike can be used at any time in any fight regardless of positioning out to the full range of your longest range attack (typically 600 feet). It can be used in in the air, land, water whatever. Entangle is not nearly as flexible in its use.
Not every spell or tactic needs/is a "battle opener". Take for example, the spell Sleep. Many people hate this spell after level 3+ (or at least that seems to be). Sleep is a battle closer spell at higher levels. Take that prisoner at range, etc.
Not every spell or tactic needs/is a "battle opener". Take for example, the spell Sleep. Many people hate this spell after level 3+ (or at least that seems to be). Sleep is a battle closer spell at higher levels. Take that prisoner at range, etc.
This is true, but it also sucks up a prepared or known slot, so unless I get it through a subclass (like Twilight Cleric) I am probably not keeping it past level 4 or so.
Not every spell or tactic needs/is a "battle opener". Take for example, the spell Sleep. Many people hate this spell after level 3+ (or at least that seems to be). Sleep is a battle closer spell at higher levels. Take that prisoner at range, etc.
This is true, but it also sucks up a prepared or known slot, so unless I get it through a subclass (like Twilight Cleric) I am probably not keeping it past level 4 or so.
Well that is certainly a valid decision. If we are talking about battle openers, then nothing can beat pass without trace. This is basically an action surge for the entire party. I think the sleep spell is a bit slept on because so many active posters talk about killing monsters. But in a city campaign, dragon heist, that may not be an option.
Well that is certainly a valid decision. If we are talking about battle openers, then nothing can beat pass without trace. This is basically an action surge for the entire party. I think the sleep spell is a bit slept on because so many active posters talk about killing monsters. But in a city campaign, dragon heist, that may not be an option.
If you had a way to tell when your enemy was within X HP of death. sleep would be a lot more useful. Since you don't, it's a terrible closer. If you want to take down an enemy nonlethally, do it with melee weapon attacks.
I guess that depends on what you’re fighting. Used at the same spell slot level, sleep is a bit more effective against a single creature than fireball. 9d8 to peacefully end a fight could be a good option.
Not every spell or tactic needs/is a "battle opener". Take for example, the spell Sleep. Many people hate this spell after level 3+ (or at least that seems to be). Sleep is a battle closer spell at higher levels. Take that prisoner at range, etc.
This is true, but it also sucks up a prepared or known slot, so unless I get it through a subclass (like Twilight Cleric) I am probably not keeping it past level 4 or so.
This statement shows little respect for the value of just having something on your list. A rangers skill sets meaning they can operate on low or no costs(or even in the positive while traveling), meaning they can afford scroll crafting/purchase manipulation better than most classes. I would go so far as to say only warlocks: (aspect of the moon) or artificers could potentially do it better.
Optimized rangers understand resource management. Situational spells are better as scrolls saving up your known spots for the ones you really want.
so Know entangle or ensnaring strike and get a scroll for the other. I prefer ensnaring strike because it doesn't require the field setup that entangle does. more situational=less uses over the campaign= consider scrolls over known
Well that is certainly a valid decision. If we are talking about battle openers, then nothing can beat pass without trace. This is basically an action surge for the entire party. I think the sleep spell is a bit slept on because so many active posters talk about killing monsters. But in a city campaign, dragon heist, that may not be an option.
If you had a way to tell when your enemy was within X HP of death. sleep would be a lot more useful. Since you don't, it's a terrible closer. If you want to take down an enemy nonlethally, do it with melee weapon attacks.
There are at least several ways to make solid educated guesses at HP. Skill checks for one. 7th level Battle masters isn't ever a guess. Damage tracking/counting for another. Most tables I know at least run with the bloodied condition. Its pretty reliable that a team with sleep will have at least one way to satisfy "figuring out HP" . Assuming, the current main approach (at most tables) is a balanced role team.
Not every spell or tactic needs/is a "battle opener". Take for example, the spell Sleep. Many people hate this spell after level 3+ (or at least that seems to be). Sleep is a battle closer spell at higher levels. Take that prisoner at range, etc.
This is true, but it also sucks up a prepared or known slot, so unless I get it through a subclass (like Twilight Cleric) I am probably not keeping it past level 4 or so.
This statement shows little respect for the value of just having something on your list. A rangers skill sets meaning they can operate on low or no costs(or even in the positive while traveling), meaning they can afford scroll crafting/purchase manipulation better than most classes. I would go so far as to say only warlocks: (aspect of the moon) or artificers could potentially do it better.
Optimized rangers understand resource management. Situational spells are better as scrolls saving up your known spots for the ones you really want.
so Know entangle or ensnaring strike and get a scroll for the other. I prefer ensnaring strike because it doesn't require the field setup that entangle does. more situational=less uses over the campaign= consider scrolls over known
Agree to a degree. What hurts Rangers on scrolls is Arcana proficiency. You have to have Arcana proficiency to craft scrolls and that is difficult on a Ranger. Even if you go with a background or race to get it, you don't have the intelligence to be good at anything except crafting scrolls. Then you need to know the spell at some point too and have to craft all your scrolls while you know it and before you trade it for something else.
I think Wizards are the best scroll crafters. They have Arcana on their proficeincy list, an intelligence to be great at it and they have a book full of spells. IM specifically think Elf Wizards are the best because they can craft for 4 hours a night while the party sleeps.
If purchase is an option sure, but scrolls are not cheap to buy and places to buy them are not everywhere.
I really like entangle, but my son has been using Ensnaring Strike to huge success. Its not bad.
Neither is a bad choice.
To any one saying a ranger might miss with ensnaring strike. I think you need to remember this is going to be a ranged ranger with high dex and probably archery fighting style. So stealth will be good for advantage. + 2 to hit. "Back row" fighting so less likely to need con higher than wisdom. Multi-attack for two chances to hit on the casting turn. Possibly with magic bows, arrows or bracers of Archery.
Even without magic items you will hit most of the time. Also, A ranger is more likely to know what creatures will have higher str-saves making its use tactical.
Also if you ever get "share spells" you will get the beast to use ensnaring strike but it can't do entanglement.
Still with the party make up. I would probably take something else until later levels.
One thing to note with ensnaring strike and archery - it can be used on flying/airborne creatures and entangle can’t.
im not sure I see why you can’t use it more than once since you can keep concentrating on it for upto a minute. I get that part of that is to deal with missing all attacks in round 1+ but what if I chose to keep concentrating after I hit a flying creature? If it makes it’s save then nothing happens and it’s the same as a miss. If it fails it’s restrained and falls taking falling damage and possibly dying while I’m still concentrating on the spell - then I can see the spell ending as I have to surrender concentration to lose the vines on the dead creature before casting again for the next shot(s).
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Are you thinking you should be allowed to redirect it after your target drops to zero, similar to Hunter's mark?
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It is true that Ensnaring Strike doesn't explicitly say it ends when the target succeeds its save or is otherwise freed from the vines. However a creature succeeding its save is not the same as missing the attack entirely. Ensnaring Strike triggers "The next time you hit . . ." after casting the spell. After the trigger has occurred there is no way to trigger Ensnaring Strike again even if the spell doesn't end RAW.
Compare Ensnaring Strike to something like Elemental Weapon. If Ensnaring Strike was intended to trigger multiple times then it would simply say "When you hit . . ." Instead of "The next time you hit . . .".
Also consider Searing Smite. This spell does say that it ends when the creature makes its save. However what if the creature fails? Do you continue to do an extra 1d6 fire damage when you hit the creature with a melee weapon? What if you attack and hit a different creature?
Yeah. It's not hunter's mark. Not all spells and effects in the game, maybe not even half, are save for half type of things. Guiding bolt, sleep, charm person, etc. It is not uncommon for a spell (especially at this level) to be a "roll of the dice" for it to work or not work. Love it or hate it, ensnaring strike is an effect (potent if it sticks) that takes a hit with a weapon (not tough for an archer ranger) and a failed saving throw, possibly rolled at advantage. It is an upcastable 1d6 damage and the restrained on the target if it works, along with anything else that a ranger's attack action can bring to the table, including magic weapon/items and subclass damage. Also for this current conversation we are talking about additional falling damage on top of that. If a paladin's divine smite incentivizes you to use it on a critical hit and/or against fiends and undead, a ranger's ensnaring strike spell incentivizes you to use it against flying creatures, which is both thematically and mechanically appropriate for both paladins and rangers.
A helpful Goodberry tip:
If my ranger has a spell slot left at the end of the day, or if it is the day before we head into an adventure, I cast Goodberry before bed. They last 24 hours, and you can cast it again in the morning and start the day with 20 Goodberries in your pocket.
Thanks, I actually took Goodberry instead of the other two, and I`ve been doing the exact same thing that u r describing!
Absolutely loving it! First time I used it like this I had 3 unused slots... and we actually spent more than 20 berries before we entered any combat (bad rolls... :D). My character started to feel like a drug dealer when suddenly every other character was in need of a berry or a few :D
It`s much better suited for my role in the campaign. Also took summon beast instead of spike growth, feels cool for my primal companion now has a buddy:)
It’s a boss move.
I think Ensnaring strike is better in terms of action economy. With a failed save the enemy loses at least one action entirely while you used a bonus action to cast it.
With entangle you use an action and then if the enemy fails uses an action to try to break it. This means it is one action to break even and unless the enemy fails 2 saves there is no net gain for the character casting it. If the enemy makes his first save it is a wasted action and wasted slot, where in the case of ES it is only a wasted bonus and wasted spell slot.
If there is more than 1 enemy in the area that can change, and it also has the difficult terrain effect but those are more than countered by the friendly fire potential and extra damage. Ensnaring strike can be used at any time in any fight regardless of positioning out to the full range of your longest range attack (typically 600 feet). It can be used in in the air, land, water whatever. Entangle is not nearly as flexible in its use.
Not every spell or tactic needs/is a "battle opener". Take for example, the spell Sleep. Many people hate this spell after level 3+ (or at least that seems to be). Sleep is a battle closer spell at higher levels. Take that prisoner at range, etc.
This is true, but it also sucks up a prepared or known slot, so unless I get it through a subclass (like Twilight Cleric) I am probably not keeping it past level 4 or so.
Well that is certainly a valid decision. If we are talking about battle openers, then nothing can beat pass without trace. This is basically an action surge for the entire party. I think the sleep spell is a bit slept on because so many active posters talk about killing monsters. But in a city campaign, dragon heist, that may not be an option.
If you had a way to tell when your enemy was within X HP of death. sleep would be a lot more useful. Since you don't, it's a terrible closer. If you want to take down an enemy nonlethally, do it with melee weapon attacks.
I guess that depends on what you’re fighting. Used at the same spell slot level, sleep is a bit more effective against a single creature than fireball. 9d8 to peacefully end a fight could be a good option.
Especially by an enemy spellcaster.
This statement shows little respect for the value of just having something on your list. A rangers skill sets meaning they can operate on low or no costs(or even in the positive while traveling), meaning they can afford scroll crafting/purchase manipulation better than most classes. I would go so far as to say only warlocks: (aspect of the moon) or artificers could potentially do it better.
Optimized rangers understand resource management. Situational spells are better as scrolls saving up your known spots for the ones you really want.
so Know entangle or ensnaring strike and get a scroll for the other. I prefer ensnaring strike because it doesn't require the field setup that entangle does. more situational=less uses over the campaign= consider scrolls over known
There are at least several ways to make solid educated guesses at HP. Skill checks for one. 7th level Battle masters isn't ever a guess. Damage tracking/counting for another. Most tables I know at least run with the bloodied condition. Its pretty reliable that a team with sleep will have at least one way to satisfy "figuring out HP" . Assuming, the current main approach (at most tables) is a balanced role team.
Agree to a degree. What hurts Rangers on scrolls is Arcana proficiency. You have to have Arcana proficiency to craft scrolls and that is difficult on a Ranger. Even if you go with a background or race to get it, you don't have the intelligence to be good at anything except crafting scrolls. Then you need to know the spell at some point too and have to craft all your scrolls while you know it and before you trade it for something else.
I think Wizards are the best scroll crafters. They have Arcana on their proficeincy list, an intelligence to be great at it and they have a book full of spells. IM specifically think Elf Wizards are the best because they can craft for 4 hours a night while the party sleeps.
If purchase is an option sure, but scrolls are not cheap to buy and places to buy them are not everywhere.