So I've been coming up with a character for a new campaign, and I really like the idea of a ranger. I was thinking a hunter ranger with Colossus Slayer, Multiattack Defense, Uncanny Dodge, and Volley or Whirlwind Attack depending on whether I go ranged or melee. I considered Beast Master, but I prefer the Hunter, even though it isn't the strongest subclass.
However, I heard/read that the last few ranger levels (14-20) aren't very useful, so I wondered if a multiclass monk would mesh well with a higher-level ranger? I was thinking 12 Hunter ranger/8 Kensei or Astral self monk. I'm quite new to D&D and don't have too much experience, so I'd like to know whether anyone has played (or payed with) a similar character, or whether it would even work. Stats especially welcome, as I aren't too into min/maxing myself!
Also, I still haven't made up my mind about whether to go for a ranged archer, or a dual-wielding melee character with the Dual Wielder feat so I can have paired longswords... any ideas?
The whole build is still in development, so any feedback is very welcome!
So I've been coming up with a character for a new campaign, and I really like the idea of a ranger. I was thinking a hunter ranger with Colossus Slayer, Multiattack Defense, Uncanny Dodge, and Volley or Whirlwind Attack depending on whether I go ranged or melee. I considered Beast Master, but I prefer the Hunter, even though it isn't the strongest subclass.
However, I heard/read that the last few ranger levels (14-20) aren't very useful, so I wondered if a multiclass monk would mesh well with a higher-level ranger? I was thinking 12 Hunter ranger/8 Kensei or Astral self monk. I'm quite new to D&D and don't have too much experience, so I'd like to know whether anyone has played (or payed with) a similar character, or whether it would even work. Stats especially welcome, as I aren't too into min/maxing myself!
Also, I still haven't made up my mind about whether to go for a ranged archer, or a dual-wielding melee character with the Dual Wielder feat so I can have paired longswords... any ideas?
The whole build is still in development, so any feedback is very welcome!
I would still go the ranged ranger route, as the monk catching missiles and throwing them back is a good flavor for it, but if enemies get too close, you just drop the bow and go Monk on them. the last levels (14-20) 0f ranger being "aren't very useful" is subjective. I personally would disagree with it, but theres a lot of variables to it, party make up, campaign, setting, etc. Vanish and Feral senses are both quite strong and useful.
That aside, astral monk woul pair better with two weapon fighting than ranged, but the benefits of astral don't stack with the two weapon, so you would either be two weapon, or using your astral arms. so it doesn't mesh well. Kensei does work with either ranged or two weapon fighting, and the abilities can stack with what you are already doing. so between the 2 monk choices, I would do the Kensei.
You would want high dex, wis, con, and the other stats don't matter.
So I've been coming up with a character for a new campaign, and I really like the idea of a ranger. I was thinking a hunter ranger with Colossus Slayer, Multiattack Defense, Uncanny Dodge, and Volley or Whirlwind Attack depending on whether I go ranged or melee. I considered Beast Master, but I prefer the Hunter, even though it isn't the strongest subclass.
However, I heard/read that the last few ranger levels (14-20) aren't very useful, so I wondered if a multiclass monk would mesh well with a higher-level ranger? I was thinking 12 Hunter ranger/8 Kensei or Astral self monk. I'm quite new to D&D and don't have too much experience, so I'd like to know whether anyone has played (or payed with) a similar character, or whether it would even work. Stats especially welcome, as I aren't too into min/maxing myself!
Also, I still haven't made up my mind about whether to go for a ranged archer, or a dual-wielding melee character with the Dual Wielder feat so I can have paired longswords... any ideas?
The whole build is still in development, so any feedback is very welcome!
I would still go the ranged ranger route, as the monk catching missiles and throwing them back is a good flavor for it, but if enemies get too close, you just drop the bow and go Monk on them. the last levels (14-20) 0f ranger being "aren't very useful" is subjective. I personally would disagree with it, but theres a lot of variables to it, party make up, campaign, setting, etc. Vanish and Feral senses are both quite strong and useful.
That aside, astral monk woul pair better with two weapon fighting than ranged, but the benefits of astral don't stack with the two weapon, so you would either be two weapon, or using your astral arms. so it doesn't mesh well. Kensei does work with either ranged or two weapon fighting, and the abilities can stack with what you are already doing. so between the 2 monk choices, I would do the Kensei.
You would want high dex, wis, con, and the other stats don't matter.
Thanks for the advice, I though that Kensei might be stronger than astral; I just though astral seemed slightly cooler and more interesting. As for the last few levels of ranger, my party has at least a couple of rogues, so stealth is less important than combat. Thanks for the help
first i say build what is fun for you. for me I don't like missing out on high level ranger play.
However I will say sometimes Playing a ranger the benefits aren't in the immediate view but rather secondary. the ranger spell progression looks like a half caster but alot of the later spell options are unique or add on top of what a regular caster can do. They get full martial damage while having some powerful support spells. like the conjure spells. You don't even need the "cheat" options (pixies with full animal encyclopedia for polymorph) or Huge numbers of creatures to get value. Many of the cr 1 or 2 options have fun riders to help with an encounter.
The big problem with monk/ranger is that alosteerything monkish is based off Ki points and starting as a L1 monk at L13 is that you will never have enough Ki points to do a whole lot. The synergies were much better in earlier versions and work better when you build both up from L1. By L12 a ranger is far less a martial character and far more a caster who can go martial when they have to. The monk abilities take away from this not add to it generally. If you want a highly martial ranger you are better off going hunter 6 / champion (yes fighter) the rest of the way. You will (eventually) get a third attack with each action, get access to GWF, get more ASIs/Feats and will have the most valuable of the ranger skills and abilities. If you want more casting go Eldritch knight instead of champion and gain 3 cantrips and access to L3 spells.
True, the later spells are useful. However, I was going for a more versatile character, part stealth, part magic, ranged, melee, exploration etc. The summoning does sound cool though... I'll consider it :)
I love problem solving based on summons. (note: dm rulings may adjust your experience. some let you pick, some add terrain restrictions) spiders have webs, fey have charms and teleports, some animals are fast others have keen senses. Monkeys and rats and weasels can "pick pockets" or cause distractions.
swift quiver is ok for its action economy but combined with poisons it becomes godlike as it duplicates the bonus action arrows.
depending on if you are using tasha's or not you get different features that can be exploited to great effect. I like hide in plain sight (+ vanish) as it beats true sight and more. natures veil however grants a lot of advantage to hit for you and disadvantage for enemies. at higher levels you really want to minimize hits IMO.
Basically like wildbill indicated resources get spread thin especially MC with most monk subclasses.(4 elements has one ki free feature thats actually better than it seems ) depending on your tables adventuring day low levels of ki can hurt but many tables don't worry about rests or are disagree with specific strategies.
monk is a good Multiclass but i just burn out too quick. however ranger tends to save resources so it could be fine if you tactically use ki.
I don't know if I'd personally go so deep on Monk, you get a lot of good stuff in the first three levels, and could still get to 17th-level Ranger for the spellcasting (steel wind strike and swift quiver are both fantastic spells).
The main problem I see is that very few campaigns actually make it to 20th-level; it's fun to think about, but unless your DM is planning to level you up pretty quickly, your campaign is likely to run out of steam or reach a conclusion long before you start multi-classing as Monk.
Personally I tend to multi-class early if I'm going to multi-class at all, e.g- grab a level or two for the main features of another class. For example if you want to be a Ranger that doesn't need to wear armour, then you want to get 1st-level Monk early, though doing so will delay your Extra Attack (there's always a trade off with multi-classing, especially early on).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I don't know if I'd personally go so deep on Monk, you get a lot of good stuff in the first three levels, and could still get to 17th-level Ranger for the spellcasting (steel wind strike and swift quiver are both fantastic spells).
The main problem I see is that very few campaigns actually make it to 20th-level; it's fun to think about, but unless your DM is planning to level you up pretty quickly, your campaign is likely to run out of steam or reach a conclusion long before you start multi-classing as Monk.
Personally I tend to multi-class early if I'm going to multi-class at all, e.g- grab a level or two for the main features of another class. For example if you want to be a Ranger that doesn't need to wear armour, then you want to get 1st-level Monk early, though doing so will delay your Extra Attack (there's always a trade off with multi-classing, especially early on).
I guess that makes sense... my main reason for going with 8 lvls of monk is for the ki points (3 seems like not enough to do anything. Good point about the spellcasting though
I love problem solving based on summons. (note: dm rulings may adjust your experience. some let you pick, some add terrain restrictions) spiders have webs, fey have charms and teleports, some animals are fast others have keen senses. Monkeys and rats and weasels can "pick pockets" or cause distractions.
swift quiver is ok for its action economy but combined with poisons it becomes godlike as it duplicates the bonus action arrows.
depending on if you are using tasha's or not you get different features that can be exploited to great effect. I like hide in plain sight (+ vanish) as it beats true sight and more. natures veil however grants a lot of advantage to hit for you and disadvantage for enemies. at higher levels you really want to minimize hits IMO.
Basically like wildbill indicated resources get spread thin especially MC with most monk subclasses.(4 elements has one ki free feature thats actually better than it seems ) depending on your tables adventuring day low levels of ki can hurt but many tables don't worry about rests or are disagree with specific strategies.
monk is a good Multiclass but i just burn out too quick. however ranger tends to save resources so it could be fine if you tactically use ki.
Thanks for the detail... I'd been wondering whether 8 ki points are enough
8 Ki points is enough - if used strategically. The saving grace is that they regenerate on a short rest not a long rest. What that also means is that you have to look over the two subclasses carefully figuring out where they synergize and where they don’t- and where you can skip using Ki because the ranger covers the action better. It’s a game of what do you get and what do you give up. For instance - monk 3/R17 or monk 4/R16; what you gain with monk 4 is an ASI and the slow fall ability, what you lose is the ranger 17 benefits: a 10th spell known (probably your L5 spell) a L4 slot and your L5 slot. The biggest things you really get from monk aesthetic unarmored combat ( high Dex + high Wis required) and the speed improvement. Te real arts bonus attack is only a D4 at low level while anger canapé a TWF bonus attack with a scimitar (d6) for slightly better damage
True, the later spells are useful. However, I was going for a more versatile character, part stealth, part magic, ranged, melee, exploration etc. The summoning does sound cool though... I'll consider it :)
three levels of Rogue can make you very stealthy, great skills, give you two d6 six backstab. Meelee ranger can utilize the back stab at range if a melee character is 5 feet from your target. Start with Rogue to get more skills and expertise. Much better synergy than Monk. Just my 2 cents.
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So I've been coming up with a character for a new campaign, and I really like the idea of a ranger. I was thinking a hunter ranger with Colossus Slayer, Multiattack Defense, Uncanny Dodge, and Volley or Whirlwind Attack depending on whether I go ranged or melee. I considered Beast Master, but I prefer the Hunter, even though it isn't the strongest subclass.
However, I heard/read that the last few ranger levels (14-20) aren't very useful, so I wondered if a multiclass monk would mesh well with a higher-level ranger? I was thinking 12 Hunter ranger/8 Kensei or Astral self monk. I'm quite new to D&D and don't have too much experience, so I'd like to know whether anyone has played (or payed with) a similar character, or whether it would even work. Stats especially welcome, as I aren't too into min/maxing myself!
Also, I still haven't made up my mind about whether to go for a ranged archer, or a dual-wielding melee character with the Dual Wielder feat so I can have paired longswords... any ideas?
The whole build is still in development, so any feedback is very welcome!
I would still go the ranged ranger route, as the monk catching missiles and throwing them back is a good flavor for it, but if enemies get too close, you just drop the bow and go Monk on them. the last levels (14-20) 0f ranger being "aren't very useful" is subjective. I personally would disagree with it, but theres a lot of variables to it, party make up, campaign, setting, etc. Vanish and Feral senses are both quite strong and useful.
That aside, astral monk woul pair better with two weapon fighting than ranged, but the benefits of astral don't stack with the two weapon, so you would either be two weapon, or using your astral arms. so it doesn't mesh well. Kensei does work with either ranged or two weapon fighting, and the abilities can stack with what you are already doing. so between the 2 monk choices, I would do the Kensei.
You would want high dex, wis, con, and the other stats don't matter.
Blank
Stunned enemies auto fail their save against entangling strike so that's a decent synergy for melee; especially if you go astral arms and max wisdom.
Thanks for the advice, I though that Kensei might be stronger than astral; I just though astral seemed slightly cooler and more interesting. As for the last few levels of ranger, my party has at least a couple of rogues, so stealth is less important than combat. Thanks for the help
Huh, I hadn't even considered that, thanks for helping! That could come in handy!
first i say build what is fun for you. for me I don't like missing out on high level ranger play.
However I will say sometimes Playing a ranger the benefits aren't in the immediate view but rather secondary. the ranger spell progression looks like a half caster but alot of the later spell options are unique or add on top of what a regular caster can do. They get full martial damage while having some powerful support spells. like the conjure spells. You don't even need the "cheat" options (pixies with full animal encyclopedia for polymorph) or Huge numbers of creatures to get value. Many of the cr 1 or 2 options have fun riders to help with an encounter.
The big problem with monk/ranger is that alosteerything monkish is based off Ki points and starting as a L1 monk at L13 is that you will never have enough Ki points to do a whole lot. The synergies were much better in earlier versions and work better when you build both up from L1. By L12 a ranger is far less a martial character and far more a caster who can go martial when they have to. The monk abilities take away from this not add to it generally. If you want a highly martial ranger you are better off going hunter 6 / champion (yes fighter) the rest of the way. You will (eventually) get a third attack with each action, get access to GWF, get more ASIs/Feats and will have the most valuable of the ranger skills and abilities. If you want more casting go Eldritch knight instead of champion and gain 3 cantrips and access to L3 spells.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Good point about the Ki, although 8 seems like enough for a few useful maneuvers, like flurry of blows...
True, the later spells are useful. However, I was going for a more versatile character, part stealth, part magic, ranged, melee, exploration etc. The summoning does sound cool though... I'll consider it :)
I love problem solving based on summons. (note: dm rulings may adjust your experience. some let you pick, some add terrain restrictions) spiders have webs, fey have charms and teleports, some animals are fast others have keen senses. Monkeys and rats and weasels can "pick pockets" or cause distractions.
swift quiver is ok for its action economy but combined with poisons it becomes godlike as it duplicates the bonus action arrows.
depending on if you are using tasha's or not you get different features that can be exploited to great effect. I like hide in plain sight (+ vanish) as it beats true sight and more. natures veil however grants a lot of advantage to hit for you and disadvantage for enemies. at higher levels you really want to minimize hits IMO.
Basically like wildbill indicated resources get spread thin especially MC with most monk subclasses.(4 elements has one ki free feature thats actually better than it seems ) depending on your tables adventuring day low levels of ki can hurt but many tables don't worry about rests or are disagree with specific strategies.
monk is a good Multiclass but i just burn out too quick. however ranger tends to save resources so it could be fine if you tactically use ki.
I don't know if I'd personally go so deep on Monk, you get a lot of good stuff in the first three levels, and could still get to 17th-level Ranger for the spellcasting (steel wind strike and swift quiver are both fantastic spells).
The main problem I see is that very few campaigns actually make it to 20th-level; it's fun to think about, but unless your DM is planning to level you up pretty quickly, your campaign is likely to run out of steam or reach a conclusion long before you start multi-classing as Monk.
Personally I tend to multi-class early if I'm going to multi-class at all, e.g- grab a level or two for the main features of another class. For example if you want to be a Ranger that doesn't need to wear armour, then you want to get 1st-level Monk early, though doing so will delay your Extra Attack (there's always a trade off with multi-classing, especially early on).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
If you want stealth, maybe look at Shadow Monk. Some pretty cool ways to be stealthy.
I guess that makes sense... my main reason for going with 8 lvls of monk is for the ki points (3 seems like not enough to do anything. Good point about the spellcasting though
Thanks for the detail... I'd been wondering whether 8 ki points are enough
I'd thought that, maybe gloom stalker Ranger and shadow monk? But our party has a couple of rogues already, so I'll probably leave stealth up to them
8 Ki points is enough - if used strategically. The saving grace is that they regenerate on a short rest not a long rest. What that also means is that you have to look over the two subclasses carefully figuring out where they synergize and where they don’t- and where you can skip using Ki because the ranger covers the action better. It’s a game of what do you get and what do you give up. For instance - monk 3/R17 or monk 4/R16; what you gain with monk 4 is an ASI and the slow fall ability, what you lose is the ranger 17 benefits: a 10th spell known (probably your L5 spell) a L4 slot and your L5 slot. The biggest things you really get from monk aesthetic unarmored combat ( high Dex + high Wis required) and the speed improvement. Te real arts bonus attack is only a D4 at low level while anger canapé a TWF bonus attack with a scimitar (d6) for slightly better damage
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Shadow / swarm keeper dhampir. Swarm is bats. Shadow step through your swarm. Rule of Cool.
three levels of Rogue can make you very stealthy, great skills, give you two d6 six backstab. Meelee ranger can utilize the back stab at range if a melee character is 5 feet from your target. Start with Rogue to get more skills and expertise. Much better synergy than Monk. Just my 2 cents.