I looked it over briefly last night and was very disappointed. It’s a slightly upgraded 2014, the earlier UA was, despite its lack of flavor, a better ranger chassis than this one. The only thing they seem to have kept from it is prepared spells at L1, but even there they took away cantrips. I get moving things back to the 2014 level pacing to Mack subclasses work properly but that was never a major problem to adjust as a DM. I do like the flavoring it at least speaks to the class now but as long as a scout rogue can out ranger a base hunter ranger at nature craft there is something significantly wrong with things. I will have to reread it far more carefully but at first glance I am considering just continuing to use the UA2 ranger with level mods to fit subclasses and the return of evocation spells to their repertoire.
I am not sure if this is the best place for the thread but it will be interesting to see if the amount of input changes in the ranger specific forum.
It truly feels like they don't have a good idea of how to make Break from "permission mechanics" while still maintaining "roleplay archetype mechanics'
The DE advantage is good but was it enough of an exchange for what they took?
I think its a step in the right direction but they still avoid trying to fix some of the more interesting/uniqie parts of the 2014 class. However if starts to pleases me, it will inevitably tick off the people who are happy with the combat focused design. we were really in the best place with the class when whe had PHB+Tashas as options.
Right now I will stick with 2014 because It appeals better to what I want than The playtest. I know at least all I have to do is talk to my dm about what i expect 2014 and it becomes a good class.
This was AWEFUL. Crawford said they protected what was popular ? What a load of bunk. What popular idea did you protect? Only one I see is that Ranger are under powered and you wanted to keep it that way. I loved the previous UA edition and this took away anything good from that.
Of the 2014 version Hunters Mark was the single best feature. Well they fixed that by making it worse. The reason people say it was OP 🤬🤬🤬. How because you changed hex a secondary spell for another class that resembled HM the main spell and best feature of the Ranger.
What makes this even worse is they to Rogue , and great class and made it better. Same goes for Bard . Now look at Ranger the other expertise class and it’s awful. It’s the Battle Rager of the expertise class.
the previous Ua ranger with no concentration of Huntersmark was over powered because at level 1 It became the most desirable skill for characters with multi-attack. That ment few people who chose the class would stay ranger.
That being said they definitely over corrected in a way that made neither ranger group happy.
Its definitely not ideal to say the least. I feel that the ranger fantasy isn't as easy to present through game mechanics without narrowing down the class into something that isn't as customisable through subclasses and playstyles.
I do remember seeing a post on the UA thread about how Hunters Mark should have options to customise it, making the ranger more useful in combat by providing help to the team and themselves, helping to sell the "Expertise class" classification. The premise was things like slowing movement, pushing/pulling back/forth, disadvantage on saves, blindness etc. Would really give the ranger a unique class feature that could help give it some identity and power, whilst remaining customisable to players and allowing a multitude of playstyles with it.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
The Ranger (along with the Druid) should be the pre-eminent woodsman as a base class (+hunter) so when looking at versions I tend to use the scout rogue as the primary comparison. If the ranger (+hunter) is not at least equal to the scout rogue in the wilderness then the class needs some revisions to bring it on par at least. What ever other complaints one might have had with the ranger the 2014 ranger met this requirement until the scout rogue appeared. The UA2 ranger at least brought them onto a par in terms of wilderness abilities as both got (or could take) full expertise in nature and survival skills. The ranger was always superior to the rogue because of its spell abilities as well as (starting at L5) its extra attack. I liked getting spells including cantrips as prepared spells at level 1 but I did not like the prohibition on evocation spells - a combat caster should always have access to evocation spells in my opinion. I can see their reasoning however as giving the ranger access to ranged damage cantrips and melee cantrips like booming blade and green flame blade eliminates the need to carry a missile weapon and renders their melee combat close to OP at L1+. On the other hand why not as using the new background UA the ranger can simply take magic initiate X to get them and then potentially take the Druidic fighting style to add to the cantrips known so it’s sort of a wasted prohibition. While looking over the new and old I put together a comparison list of the 2014 ranger, UA2 and UA6 rangers ( I didn’t include Tasha’s) to try to really see the differences and see what I liked and disliked if folks want I’ll type up my paper notes and post them here. Then I put together what I think the new ranger should look like drawing from all three versions.so here are my thoughts for what the base ranger + hunter should actually look like along with my reasoning/thoughts on why.
Level 1: Expertise (2) with 4 ranger skills, prepared primal spells but no cantrips and no evocation prohibition, Hunter ( new) and weapon mastery. The expertise allows the ranger full matching of double proficiency with nature and survival if they want so their woodcraft can match the scout rogue meeting my first requirement. The elimination of cantrips keeps archery as a reasonable style for rangers while the elimination of the evocation prohibition gives them access to the sorts of combat spells they should have as well as the more woodscrafty and summoning of the primal tree. Hunter isn’t really new except in name it’s a choice of either the UA6 Deft explorer’s advantage boosts to selected terrains foraging, tracking, etc abilities or the 2014 Favored enemy ability to know more and track better selected groups of foes. In this case 3 selections from the list, 4 if one selection is humanoids with its two choices. This would give language, knowledge roll advantage and tracking advantage with those 3 (4) groups (allowing for things like urban ranger/bounty hunter type builds). Weapon mastery from UA6 comes in as a given as it’s integral to all martial classes. Level 2: fighting style and a modified primeval awareness as well as the UA6 favored enemy. I’m sad to see the extra damage on every hit of 2014’s hunters mark go but I can see the reasoning of it as making the ability somewhat OP. I’m not against hunter’s mark going back to concentration and being able to caste it wisdom bonus times without using a spell slot solves the problem of not being able to cast it enough to be useful all day. Fighting style is obvious here. Primeval awareness was never really understood or used properly by a lot of folks but when used properly can be quite useful. The only change I would make is to have it tell you the direction of anything it found - still not actual location, distance or number. Level 3: Subclass feature(s) - Hunter: Hunter’s lore (UA6) and a revised Hunter’s Prey from 2014. Here the hunter’s lore would add to anything from the base favored foe choice if you took it. Hunter’s Prey would allow you to select 2 not 1 of the 2014 choices to know but you can only use one of the 2 on any given round (so you can’t switch which for a reaction) I don’t have a problem with using the UA6 names here the feature is essentially the same whether 2014 or UA6. Level 4: Feat/ASI Level 5: extra attack Level 6: Roving, and an expansion of the Hunter feature. Roving is needed and this a good spot for it. For the Hunter feature you would again have a choice - adding 2 terrain types or two foe types to the ones you already have OR adding the base other ability of this feature. This means you could have 4 terrains or 5(6) foes or 2 terrains and 3(4)foes. Level 7: Subclass features - Hunter: Defensive Tactics - 2 of the 3 (6) choices. like Hunter’s prey these 3 options shouldn’t be a lifetime either or choice, the should be a round by round choice. Between UA6 and 2014 there are actually 6 possible choices (Evasion, uncanny dodge, escape the horde, multi attack defense, Steel Will, and Hunter’s Leap). I could see restricting it down to 3 or 4 choices or leaving all 6 with a choice of 2 here and more later (L15). I would change Steel will to either include charms or simply grant proficiency with will saves I haven’t decided which yet and would be happy with either. Level 8: Feat/ASI Level 9: Expertise (2), Conjure Barrage, Expertise is a given here to keep ranger in line with the other expert classes. Given what they are doing with dedicated spells conjure Barrage has to be here as well. Level 10: Tireless Level 11: Subclass feature(s) - Hunter: multiattack and improved Hunter’s Prey. For Hunters prey you get the Third option as a choice each round. For Multiattack you get both 2014 options as choices to use each round in addition to your spell slots for Conjure Barrage (and latter Conjure Volley) . Level 12: Feat/ASI Level 13: Vanish this is a properly worded combination of the 2014 hide in plain sight and Vanish abilities. The wording would be something like: “ you may take the hide action as a bonus action on a round. In addition if you have spent 10 minutes earlier that day to cammoflage yourself for your terrain you hide even if in plain sight by pressing yourself against a surface or large object (tree, boulder, etc) and holding still. This also gives you a +10 to stealth checks to move through the terrain without being spotted.” ( which is what those 2 should have done from the get go). Level 14: Nature’s Veil (from UA6). Level 15: Subclass features - Hunter: Defensive tactics (4/6), advantage on all tracking and foraging rolls. you now get 2 more of the 6 possibilities for this feature (or all of the if the number was reduced to 3 or 4 possibilities), as before you can switch between rounds but must keep the chosen version for all turns in a round. Here you also get the further woodcraft skills that being the preeminent woodsman should provide. Even in a terrain you normally wouldn’t get advantage in tracking and foraging you do get advantage. Level 16: Feat/ASI Level 17: Blindsight 30’ radius (able to “see” invisible creatures so they lose the invisible condition as far as you are concerned) Level 18: Conjure Volley (as the UA6 ability) I don’t really have a problem with reversing the order of level 17 & 18 here so either way. Level 19: Feat/ASI Level 20: Foe slayer (UA6 version) live always liked Foe slayer and the UA6 version that grants your wisdom bonus to both to hits and damage is better than the 2014 version that was either/or.
so there is what I would like to see the (Hunter) Ranger looking like. The ultimate lone adventurer with something to handle almost every situation while also being able to step in and help any party or even adapt to unusual terrains (urban ranger etc). Have fun picking it apart 😁
I did not like it. 1. For both Hex and HM if you want them to be class features then MAKE them class features not spells. Upgrade them with class level NOT with upcasting mechanics. When you do this reduce the duration from 1 hr to 10 minutes. Add more dice at higher levels and at level 11 plus remove concentration. 2. A 1st level spell can't be the core of your capstone unless it is automatically fully upcast. Even then go stare at the capstones for the casters. 3. Martials are at best the same strength as before while casters are arguably stronger. Particularly above level 11 martials need something to compete with clone/wish/etc.
Its not all terrible, but I thought it was a massive step back from the first UA.
Agreed UA2 was far better, switching levels to accommodate existing subclass structure was never a problem but going back to a weakened (really) 2014 ranger is wrong. (any thoughts and my ranger revision above - not that it’s likely to ever see anything close to light from WOtC, but)
Agreed UA2 was far better, switching levels to accommodate existing subclass structure was never a problem but going back to a weakened (really) 2014 ranger is wrong. (any thoughts and my ranger revision above - not that it’s likely to ever see anything close to light from WOtC, but)
sorry for the long delay in answering - I like your options, although I think Blindsight should come earlier somehow...not sure what to switch it with, maybe Nature's Veil
Overall I really like what they've been trying with the Ranger, but they don't have the balance quite right yet. I didn't actually mind the 2014 Ranger specializing in things like enemy and terrain types, though I fully recognize that they're quite situational and a bad DM could leave you feeling useless. My other beef was that Favored Enemy had no benefit in combat. You'd think if a Ranger had spent so much time studying a certain type of creature, they'd become better at fighting them, not just tracking them or knowing stuff about them. But let's go through the latest Ranger playtest:
Weapon Master - It's a nifty new mechanic, I like it. Two weapon types is probably fine for the Ranger.
Deft Explorer - I was one of the people asking to trade back some of the Expertise in favor of something that felt more "Ranger-y". I think bringing back the old Favored Terrain mechanics boosting Nature & Survival checks is good. The ability to change out which terrains you get bonuses in after every Long Rest feels like a needless complication. How often are you traveling through three different major terrain types in one adventuring day? I get that they don't want Rangers to feel trapped by their choices, I'm just not sure how different this is than "You have Advantage on Nature and Survival checks all the time". Especially later on when you can pick FOUR terrain types per day. Rather than increasing the number of terrain choices at Level 9, I think I'd like to see additional benefits. Things like bonuses to navigation to avoid getting lost and not being slowed by difficult terrain. I haven't given too much thought to balance, I'm just spitballing here, but you get my drift. I also like that it now limits your Expertise choices to skills off the Ranger list. It makes sense for your Ranger ability to make you better at doing Ranger things specifically.
Spellcasting - I really liked the previous revision when Rangers got cantrips. It made me want to try a more Wisom-focused Ranger that used Medium Armor rather than pumping Dex, fighting with things like Produce Flame, Shilellagh, Thorn Whip, etc. I'd like to see cantrips made an option, possibly as an alternative to either Weapon Master or as a Fighting Style choice like the Druidic Warrior option in Tasha's. Other than that, I'm glad to see they ditched that STUPID rule restricting how many spells of each level you could prepare based on how many spell slots you had for that level. It was both needlessly complex and needlessly restrictive.
Favored Enemy - In the first OneD&D draft of the Ranger I loved that Hunter's Mark no longer required Concentration, but I hated that one of the Ranger's signature class features required the use of the Ranger's precious few spell slots. I'm glad we got a few free uses of the spell, but I don't like that it's Concentration again. I get that making it non-Concentration might be too much, but it blocks use of SO MANY other cool spells. Ideally I'd want something like "You can maintain Concentration on Hunter's Mark AND another spell at the same time, but if you fail the saving throw to maintain Concentration, you lose both spells". I'd do the same thing for Hex with Warlocks.
Fighting Style - see above re: Druidic Warrior
Roving - Loved it in Tasha's, glad it's sticking around
Conjure Barrage - I like the new version of the spell(especially being able to choose your targets). My negative is I'm not a fan of a class feature that lets you Do A Thing without letting you Do The Thing at least once for free. I'd like to see it offer even just one free casting at 3rd level per day.
Tireless - Loved it in Tasha's, love it here. Changing the HP boost from PB/Long Rest to WisMod/Long Rest is the right move, though I'd like to see it be a Bonus Action in stead of an Action, akin to the Fighter's Second Wind ability.
Nature's Veil - Meh. Yes, Invisibility is nice, but only for one turn feels very limiting.
Conjure Volley - See above re: my take on spells as class features
Feral Senses - I dig it.
Foe Slayer - MUCH improved. I love that you get a bonus to hit your Hunter's Mark target, though I'm not sure why they worded it that way. "If you miss, add your Wisdom modifier"? If it can be applied to every missed attack against that target, why not just say "Add your Wisdom modifier to all attack rolls against the target of your Hunter's Mark spell"? And I like that the damage bonus from Foe Slayer applies to EVERY successful attack roll, not just once per turn like Hunter's Mark.
As for the subclasses, I'll just say that I'm fine with the changes to the Gloom Stalker, the Hunter is a definite improvement over their previous attempt, and I love the new Beast Master. The switch to Force damage for things like Hunter's Mark and as a way for the Primal Companion to get around Resistance(and now Immunity, woohoo!) to non-magical B/P/S damage is interesting. Though as a frequent Warlock player who was paranoid about having to face Helmed Horrors, I'm slightly concerned :)
To Me, ua 6 rangers are still bad at ranger verbs. (Travel, forage,harvest etc)
The aspects of terrain they gave are should either be always on or tied to a different features.(like the "free travel actions" possibly allowing self "help") This design really won't please either phb lovers or haters.
I am really mixed on the new hunter's mark. It now dosen't require focus on exta attacks but I kind of didn't mind a feature designed to make dual wielding synergies.
Yeah, UA6 is really just 2014+Tasha revised a bit and as such doesn’t address the issues that the ranger has. I hate saying it but unless they do something to really support the travel/exploration leg of the game the Ranger could almost go back to being a fighter subclass. I’ve said above ( the long post) what I think it should look like but at the very least it’s “ nature skills” should be the equal of a scout rogue and UA6 is inferior there and anything that thrives to do a 2014+Tasha’s for that is going to be inferior. My World will continue to use the UA2 ranger with some mods and adjustments to allow for normal level progression of subclasses.
While I wasn't as furious at UA6's ranger as I was the hack job they did on the monk, yeah it's pretty much a downgrade from the Tasha variant Ranger. I don't like Hunters Mark as a spell, I think it's overrated and I'd rather be summoning a beast or fey or hasting myself as a Horizon Walker, so trying to turn it into a class feature that proc's other features and nerfing it while doing so is a big feel bad. Conjure Barrage/Volley shouldn't be class features even if they did let you cast them for free like a real class feature would.
My biggest take away is I would not play this ranger over the version allowed in Tasha's, even if that meant my DM wouldn't let me use weapon masteries (which have their own problems).
Judging from the video for Ua7 there are some things we can expect for the next iteration of the ranger, but there is a lot I’m hoping will go back towards the UA 2 ranger: 1) the next ranger will have its own spell list not a “primal” list. 2) the class/subclass features will follow the 2014 leveling. 3) they will have access to fighting styles and the new weapon features. 4) they won’t have access to cantrips - at least not to ranged damage cantrips and probably not to melee damage cantrips either (range cantrips would replaced archery and that seems to be a lot of olds favorite version of the ranger) (melee damage cantrips compete strongly with extra attack- it’s really one or the other I’m guessing) Hoping for: A) real expertise either directly granted or choosable for 2+2 skill so that they can choose to be as good as a scout rogue in exploration/survival/terrains etc. B) spells starting at L1 C) prepared spells not known spells ( and not known carefully disguised as prepared) D) hunters mark as a feature not a spell - and without concentration E) hunters mark affecting each hit while it is up not just 1 a round (a L5 TWF ranger has the potential for 4 hits in a round - 2 attacks on the attack action, a bonus action TWF attack and an opportunity attack - all should get the bonus if the target is the mark target) F) dedicated subclass spells for all subclasses tailored to their”feel” G) an actual official urban ranger subclass ( since they are coming up with other new subclasses this one is long overdue) H) cantrips - even if they are non combat. I) granting the ranger the nature and survival skills for free at L1 - with the ability to switch them out for others on their (expanded) skill list if the PC concept demands. The urban ranger should switch nature out for perception (or another skill) - then their choice of 3 skills from the (expanded) ranger skill use.
Late to the party but I do hope they upgrade the ranger and create a class that is stronger in its field. Hopefully by upgrading any systems regarding travel, navigation and finding your way.
At my table I will be trying out a homebrew version of Favoured Enemy:
“At first level and every time a new level is reached the ranger can select a creature (including variants of the creature) that it has battled and won against as its favored enemy. Any attack against this type of creature uses the rangers wisdom modifier for to hit and damage and are made with an advantage. If both dice indicate a hit it is considered a critical hit.
The reasoning is the ranger studies the creature. Knows it movement, attack pattern, weakness e t c. I also want the ranger to actively build up their favored enemy “library” instead of selecting in a list. It also makes investing into wisdom more interesting for the ranger player.
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I looked it over briefly last night and was very disappointed. It’s a slightly upgraded 2014, the earlier UA was, despite its lack of flavor, a better ranger chassis than this one. The only thing they seem to have kept from it is prepared spells at L1, but even there they took away cantrips. I get moving things back to the 2014 level pacing to Mack subclasses work properly but that was never a major problem to adjust as a DM. I do like the flavoring it at least speaks to the class now but as long as a scout rogue can out ranger a base hunter ranger at nature craft there is something significantly wrong with things. I will have to reread it far more carefully but at first glance I am considering just continuing to use the UA2 ranger with level mods to fit subclasses and the return of evocation spells to their repertoire.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I am not sure if this is the best place for the thread but it will be interesting to see if the amount of input changes in the ranger specific forum.
It truly feels like they don't have a good idea of how to make Break from "permission mechanics" while still maintaining "roleplay archetype mechanics'
The DE advantage is good but was it enough of an exchange for what they took?
I think its a step in the right direction but they still avoid trying to fix some of the more interesting/uniqie parts of the 2014 class. However if starts to pleases me, it will inevitably tick off the people who are happy with the combat focused design. we were really in the best place with the class when whe had PHB+Tashas as options.
Right now I will stick with 2014 because It appeals better to what I want than The playtest. I know at least all I have to do is talk to my dm about what i expect 2014 and it becomes a good class.
This was AWEFUL. Crawford said they protected what was popular ? What a load of bunk. What popular idea did you protect? Only one I see is that Ranger are under powered and you wanted to keep it that way. I loved the previous UA edition and this took away anything good from that.
Of the 2014 version Hunters Mark was the single best feature. Well they fixed that by making it worse. The reason people say it was OP 🤬🤬🤬. How because you changed hex a secondary spell for another class that resembled HM the main spell and best feature of the Ranger.
What makes this even worse is they to Rogue , and great class and made it better. Same goes for Bard . Now look at Ranger the other expertise class and it’s awful. It’s the Battle Rager of the expertise class.
the previous Ua ranger with no concentration of Huntersmark was over powered because at level 1 It became the most desirable skill for characters with multi-attack. That ment few people who chose the class would stay ranger.
That being said they definitely over corrected in a way that made neither ranger group happy.
Its definitely not ideal to say the least. I feel that the ranger fantasy isn't as easy to present through game mechanics without narrowing down the class into something that isn't as customisable through subclasses and playstyles.
I do remember seeing a post on the UA thread about how Hunters Mark should have options to customise it, making the ranger more useful in combat by providing help to the team and themselves, helping to sell the "Expertise class" classification. The premise was things like slowing movement, pushing/pulling back/forth, disadvantage on saves, blindness etc. Would really give the ranger a unique class feature that could help give it some identity and power, whilst remaining customisable to players and allowing a multitude of playstyles with it.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
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The Ranger (along with the Druid) should be the pre-eminent woodsman as a base class (+hunter) so when looking at versions I tend to use the scout rogue as the primary comparison. If the ranger (+hunter) is not at least equal to the scout rogue in the wilderness then the class needs some revisions to bring it on par at least. What ever other complaints one might have had with the ranger the 2014 ranger met this requirement until the scout rogue appeared. The UA2 ranger at least brought them onto a par in terms of wilderness abilities as both got (or could take) full expertise in nature and survival skills. The ranger was always superior to the rogue because of its spell abilities as well as (starting at L5) its extra attack. I liked getting spells including cantrips as prepared spells at level 1 but I did not like the prohibition on evocation spells - a combat caster should always have access to evocation spells in my opinion. I can see their reasoning however as giving the ranger access to ranged damage cantrips and melee cantrips like booming blade and green flame blade eliminates the need to carry a missile weapon and renders their melee combat close to OP at L1+. On the other hand why not as using the new background UA the ranger can simply take magic initiate X to get them and then potentially take the Druidic fighting style to add to the cantrips known so it’s sort of a wasted prohibition. While looking over the new and old I put together a comparison list of the 2014 ranger, UA2 and UA6 rangers ( I didn’t include Tasha’s) to try to really see the differences and see what I liked and disliked if folks want I’ll type up my paper notes and post them here. Then I put together what I think the new ranger should look like drawing from all three versions.so here are my thoughts for what the base ranger + hunter should actually look like along with my reasoning/thoughts on why.
Level 1: Expertise (2) with 4 ranger skills, prepared primal spells but no cantrips and no evocation prohibition, Hunter ( new) and weapon mastery.
The expertise allows the ranger full matching of double proficiency with nature and survival if they want so their woodcraft can match the scout rogue meeting my first requirement. The elimination of cantrips keeps archery as a reasonable style for rangers while the elimination of the evocation prohibition gives them access to the sorts of combat spells they should have as well as the more woodscrafty and summoning of the primal tree. Hunter isn’t really new except in name it’s a choice of either the UA6 Deft explorer’s advantage boosts to selected terrains foraging, tracking, etc abilities or the 2014 Favored enemy ability to know more and track better selected groups of foes. In this case 3 selections from the list, 4 if one selection is humanoids with its two choices. This would give language, knowledge roll advantage and tracking advantage with those 3 (4) groups (allowing for things like urban ranger/bounty hunter type builds). Weapon mastery from UA6 comes in as a given as it’s integral to all martial classes.
Level 2: fighting style and a modified primeval awareness as well as the UA6 favored enemy.
I’m sad to see the extra damage on every hit of 2014’s hunters mark go but I can see the reasoning of it as making the ability somewhat OP. I’m not against hunter’s mark going back to concentration and being able to caste it wisdom bonus times without using a spell slot solves the problem of not being able to cast it enough to be useful all day. Fighting style is obvious here. Primeval awareness was never really understood or used properly by a lot of folks but when used properly can be quite useful. The only change I would make is to have it tell you the direction of anything it found - still not actual location, distance or number.
Level 3: Subclass feature(s) - Hunter: Hunter’s lore (UA6) and a revised Hunter’s Prey from 2014.
Here the hunter’s lore would add to anything from the base favored foe choice if you took it. Hunter’s Prey would allow you to select 2 not 1 of the 2014 choices to know but you can only use one of the 2 on any given round (so you can’t switch which for a reaction) I don’t have a problem with using the UA6 names here the feature is essentially the same whether 2014 or UA6.
Level 4: Feat/ASI
Level 5: extra attack
Level 6: Roving, and an expansion of the Hunter feature.
Roving is needed and this a good spot for it. For the Hunter feature you would again have a choice - adding 2 terrain types or two foe types to the ones you already have OR adding the base other ability of this feature. This means you could have 4 terrains or 5(6) foes or 2 terrains and 3(4)foes.
Level 7: Subclass features - Hunter: Defensive Tactics - 2 of the 3 (6) choices.
like Hunter’s prey these 3 options shouldn’t be a lifetime either or choice, the should be a round by round choice. Between UA6 and 2014 there are actually 6 possible choices (Evasion, uncanny dodge, escape the horde, multi attack defense, Steel Will, and Hunter’s Leap). I could see restricting it down to 3 or 4 choices or leaving all 6 with a choice of 2 here and more later (L15). I would change Steel will to either include charms or simply grant proficiency with will saves I haven’t decided which yet and would be happy with either.
Level 8: Feat/ASI
Level 9: Expertise (2), Conjure Barrage,
Expertise is a given here to keep ranger in line with the other expert classes. Given what they are doing with dedicated spells conjure Barrage has to be here as well.
Level 10: Tireless
Level 11: Subclass feature(s) - Hunter: multiattack and improved Hunter’s Prey.
For Hunters prey you get the Third option as a choice each round. For Multiattack you get both 2014 options as choices to use each round in addition to your spell slots for Conjure Barrage (and latter Conjure Volley) .
Level 12: Feat/ASI
Level 13: Vanish
this is a properly worded combination of the 2014 hide in plain sight and Vanish abilities. The wording would be something like: “ you may take the hide action as a bonus action on a round. In addition if you have spent 10 minutes earlier that day to cammoflage yourself for your terrain you hide even if in plain sight by pressing yourself against a surface or large object (tree, boulder, etc) and holding still. This also gives you a +10 to stealth checks to move through the terrain without being spotted.” ( which is what those 2 should have done from the get go).
Level 14: Nature’s Veil (from UA6).
Level 15: Subclass features - Hunter: Defensive tactics (4/6), advantage on all tracking and foraging rolls.
you now get 2 more of the 6 possibilities for this feature (or all of the if the number was reduced to 3 or 4 possibilities), as before you can switch between rounds but must keep the chosen version for all turns in a round. Here you also get the further woodcraft skills that being the preeminent woodsman should provide. Even in a terrain you normally wouldn’t get advantage in tracking and foraging you do get advantage.
Level 16: Feat/ASI
Level 17: Blindsight 30’ radius (able to “see” invisible creatures so they lose the invisible condition as far as you are concerned)
Level 18: Conjure Volley (as the UA6 ability)
I don’t really have a problem with reversing the order of level 17 & 18 here so either way.
Level 19: Feat/ASI
Level 20: Foe slayer (UA6 version)
live always liked Foe slayer and the UA6 version that grants your wisdom bonus to both to hits and damage is better than the 2014 version that was either/or.
so there is what I would like to see the (Hunter) Ranger looking like. The ultimate lone adventurer with something to handle almost every situation while also being able to step in and help any party or even adapt to unusual terrains (urban ranger etc). Have fun picking it apart 😁
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I did not like it.
1. For both Hex and HM if you want them to be class features then MAKE them class features not spells. Upgrade them with class level NOT with upcasting mechanics. When you do this reduce the duration from 1 hr to 10 minutes. Add more dice at higher levels and at level 11 plus remove concentration.
2. A 1st level spell can't be the core of your capstone unless it is automatically fully upcast. Even then go stare at the capstones for the casters.
3. Martials are at best the same strength as before while casters are arguably stronger. Particularly above level 11 martials need something to compete with clone/wish/etc.
Its not all terrible, but I thought it was a massive step back from the first UA.
the first (UA) version was better than this one, they have nerfed it again.
Agreed UA2 was far better, switching levels to accommodate existing subclass structure was never a problem but going back to a weakened (really) 2014 ranger is wrong.
(any thoughts and my ranger revision above - not that it’s likely to ever see anything close to light from WOtC, but)
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
sorry for the long delay in answering - I like your options, although I think Blindsight should come earlier somehow...not sure what to switch it with, maybe Nature's Veil
Overall I really like what they've been trying with the Ranger, but they don't have the balance quite right yet. I didn't actually mind the 2014 Ranger specializing in things like enemy and terrain types, though I fully recognize that they're quite situational and a bad DM could leave you feeling useless. My other beef was that Favored Enemy had no benefit in combat. You'd think if a Ranger had spent so much time studying a certain type of creature, they'd become better at fighting them, not just tracking them or knowing stuff about them. But let's go through the latest Ranger playtest:
Weapon Master - It's a nifty new mechanic, I like it. Two weapon types is probably fine for the Ranger.
Deft Explorer - I was one of the people asking to trade back some of the Expertise in favor of something that felt more "Ranger-y". I think bringing back the old Favored Terrain mechanics boosting Nature & Survival checks is good. The ability to change out which terrains you get bonuses in after every Long Rest feels like a needless complication. How often are you traveling through three different major terrain types in one adventuring day? I get that they don't want Rangers to feel trapped by their choices, I'm just not sure how different this is than "You have Advantage on Nature and Survival checks all the time". Especially later on when you can pick FOUR terrain types per day. Rather than increasing the number of terrain choices at Level 9, I think I'd like to see additional benefits. Things like bonuses to navigation to avoid getting lost and not being slowed by difficult terrain. I haven't given too much thought to balance, I'm just spitballing here, but you get my drift. I also like that it now limits your Expertise choices to skills off the Ranger list. It makes sense for your Ranger ability to make you better at doing Ranger things specifically.
Spellcasting - I really liked the previous revision when Rangers got cantrips. It made me want to try a more Wisom-focused Ranger that used Medium Armor rather than pumping Dex, fighting with things like Produce Flame, Shilellagh, Thorn Whip, etc. I'd like to see cantrips made an option, possibly as an alternative to either Weapon Master or as a Fighting Style choice like the Druidic Warrior option in Tasha's. Other than that, I'm glad to see they ditched that STUPID rule restricting how many spells of each level you could prepare based on how many spell slots you had for that level. It was both needlessly complex and needlessly restrictive.
Favored Enemy - In the first OneD&D draft of the Ranger I loved that Hunter's Mark no longer required Concentration, but I hated that one of the Ranger's signature class features required the use of the Ranger's precious few spell slots. I'm glad we got a few free uses of the spell, but I don't like that it's Concentration again. I get that making it non-Concentration might be too much, but it blocks use of SO MANY other cool spells. Ideally I'd want something like "You can maintain Concentration on Hunter's Mark AND another spell at the same time, but if you fail the saving throw to maintain Concentration, you lose both spells". I'd do the same thing for Hex with Warlocks.
Fighting Style - see above re: Druidic Warrior
Roving - Loved it in Tasha's, glad it's sticking around
Conjure Barrage - I like the new version of the spell(especially being able to choose your targets). My negative is I'm not a fan of a class feature that lets you Do A Thing without letting you Do The Thing at least once for free. I'd like to see it offer even just one free casting at 3rd level per day.
Tireless - Loved it in Tasha's, love it here. Changing the HP boost from PB/Long Rest to WisMod/Long Rest is the right move, though I'd like to see it be a Bonus Action in stead of an Action, akin to the Fighter's Second Wind ability.
Nature's Veil - Meh. Yes, Invisibility is nice, but only for one turn feels very limiting.
Conjure Volley - See above re: my take on spells as class features
Feral Senses - I dig it.
Foe Slayer - MUCH improved. I love that you get a bonus to hit your Hunter's Mark target, though I'm not sure why they worded it that way. "If you miss, add your Wisdom modifier"? If it can be applied to every missed attack against that target, why not just say "Add your Wisdom modifier to all attack rolls against the target of your Hunter's Mark spell"? And I like that the damage bonus from Foe Slayer applies to EVERY successful attack roll, not just once per turn like Hunter's Mark.
As for the subclasses, I'll just say that I'm fine with the changes to the Gloom Stalker, the Hunter is a definite improvement over their previous attempt, and I love the new Beast Master. The switch to Force damage for things like Hunter's Mark and as a way for the Primal Companion to get around Resistance(and now Immunity, woohoo!) to non-magical B/P/S damage is interesting. Though as a frequent Warlock player who was paranoid about having to face Helmed Horrors, I'm slightly concerned :)
To Me, ua 6 rangers are still bad at ranger verbs. (Travel, forage,harvest etc)
The aspects of terrain they gave are should either be always on or tied to a different features.(like the "free travel actions" possibly allowing self "help") This design really won't please either phb lovers or haters.
I am really mixed on the new hunter's mark. It now dosen't require focus on exta attacks but I kind of didn't mind a feature designed to make dual wielding synergies.
Yeah, UA6 is really just 2014+Tasha revised a bit and as such doesn’t address the issues that the ranger has. I hate saying it but unless they do something to really support the travel/exploration leg of the game the Ranger could almost go back to being a fighter subclass. I’ve said above ( the long post) what I think it should look like but at the very least it’s “ nature skills” should be the equal of a scout rogue and UA6 is inferior there and anything that thrives to do a 2014+Tasha’s for that is going to be inferior. My World will continue to use the UA2 ranger with some mods and adjustments to allow for normal level progression of subclasses.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
While I wasn't as furious at UA6's ranger as I was the hack job they did on the monk, yeah it's pretty much a downgrade from the Tasha variant Ranger. I don't like Hunters Mark as a spell, I think it's overrated and I'd rather be summoning a beast or fey or hasting myself as a Horizon Walker, so trying to turn it into a class feature that proc's other features and nerfing it while doing so is a big feel bad. Conjure Barrage/Volley shouldn't be class features even if they did let you cast them for free like a real class feature would.
My biggest take away is I would not play this ranger over the version allowed in Tasha's, even if that meant my DM wouldn't let me use weapon masteries (which have their own problems).
Big thumbs down from me.
Judging from the video for Ua7 there are some things we can expect for the next iteration of the ranger, but there is a lot I’m hoping will go back towards the UA 2 ranger:
1) the next ranger will have its own spell list not a “primal” list.
2) the class/subclass features will follow the 2014 leveling.
3) they will have access to fighting styles and the new weapon features.
4) they won’t have access to cantrips - at least not to ranged damage cantrips and probably not to melee damage cantrips either (range cantrips would replaced archery and that seems to be a lot of olds favorite version of the ranger) (melee damage cantrips compete strongly with extra attack- it’s really one or the other I’m guessing)
Hoping for:
A) real expertise either directly granted or choosable for 2+2 skill so that they can choose to be as good as a scout rogue in exploration/survival/terrains etc.
B) spells starting at L1
C) prepared spells not known spells ( and not known carefully disguised as prepared)
D) hunters mark as a feature not a spell - and without concentration
E) hunters mark affecting each hit while it is up not just 1 a round (a L5 TWF ranger has the potential for 4 hits in a round - 2 attacks on the attack action, a bonus action TWF attack and an opportunity attack - all should get the bonus if the target is the mark target)
F) dedicated subclass spells for all subclasses tailored to their”feel”
G) an actual official urban ranger subclass ( since they are coming up with other new subclasses this one is long overdue)
H) cantrips - even if they are non combat.
I) granting the ranger the nature and survival skills for free at L1 - with the ability to switch them out for others on their (expanded) skill list if the PC concept demands. The urban ranger should switch nature out for perception (or another skill) - then their choice of 3 skills from the (expanded) ranger skill use.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Late to the party but I do hope they upgrade the ranger and create a class that is stronger in its field. Hopefully by upgrading any systems regarding travel, navigation and finding your way.
At my table I will be trying out a homebrew version of Favoured Enemy:
“At first level and every time a new level is reached the ranger can select a creature (including variants of the creature) that it has battled and won against as its favored enemy. Any attack against this type of creature uses the rangers wisdom modifier for to hit and damage and are made with an advantage. If both dice indicate a hit it is considered a critical hit.
The reasoning is the ranger studies the creature. Knows it movement, attack pattern, weakness e t c. I also want the ranger to actively build up their favored enemy “library” instead of selecting in a list. It also makes investing into wisdom more interesting for the ranger player.