Throwing out another question for folks to discuss - what types of rangers and when are the best times and folks to use these two spells. Hunter’s Mark: +1D6 damage on each hit and tracking/locating bonuses. Zephyr’s Strike: foes don’t get opportunity attacks for duration, advantage and +1d8 force damage on 1 attack/casting and +30’ movement on round you use the advantage.
both are powerful and useful spells, but which rangers are better off using which spell and when? A second part is subtler - how do you (or your DM) rule on the power round for zephyr strike? Does the advantage etc end the spell or could you use it round 1 and then keep concentrating and get up to 9 more rounds free of opportunity attacks? When I read it it isn’t clear from the wording.
for me, two weapon fighters and archers after L5 are better off using hunter’s mark and getting the extra damage as many times a round as you can hit. Non two weapon fighting melee rangers are better off using zephyr strike to avoid as many opportunity attacks as possible. As a player I want to use the power round anytime I want as long as I can maintain concentration, as a DM I’m not so sure I want it played that way - call me undecided 😳. What are Your Thoughts?
Zephyr Strike is pretty clear. While you maintain concentration you do not provoke opportunity attacks. And one time during the spells duration you can give yourself advantage on a weapon attack that if it hits deals additional damage. You then gain 30 movement speed for the turn that you made the attack. Making the attack does not end the spell.
Zephyr Strike is probably best used if you get surrounded as a archer, as you can pop the spell to move away then attack an enemy to trigger another 30 ft of movement to run away some more in essence giving you a free Dash Action.
I would argue that while zephyr strike is useful as a tool for archers to scape getting surrounded that is a fairly rare occurrence and that it is best used by a melee ranger to move around/thru the minions and to the leaders doing a major strike with the advantage attack and then getting away after. The ranger can move past any number of foes without triggering opportunity attacks and reach group leaders as a striker. This also allows the melee ranger to disrupt enemy formations or moving to take out attacking archers. Other uses could be to move back drawing foes into opportunity attacks from neighboring party members.
Zephyr Strike is pretty clear. While you maintain concentration you do not provoke opportunity attacks. And one time during the spells duration you can give yourself advantage on a weapon attack that if it hits deals additional damage. You then gain 30 movement speed for the turn that you made the attack. Making the attack does not end the spell.
Zephyr Strike is probably best used if you get surrounded as a archer, as you can pop the spell to move away then attack an enemy to trigger another 30 ft of movement to run away some more in essence giving you a free Dash Action.
That is how I use it. Traded it out with an underused spell when I leveled recently. Then next fight we were in a tight canyon with baddies all around! Really helped me get away & stay ahead of them as I peppered them with arrows!
I love Zephyr Strike for situations where there is terrain or enemies that make moving around advantageous. If I am fighting melee, dashing in and out can be super interesting. It's also good for an archer when the enemies have come right into your face and you need to back off to use the ranged attack.
Hunter's Mark does more straight damage but it's not super interesting to play - it's just extra dice. Zephyr Strike changes my tactics and behavior choices.
In theory you can apply the attack bonus to any single round while the spell is in effect - but in practice I always use it when I cast the spell so that I don't risk losing concentration, plus the whole "make them dead sooner" advantage. If you are using it with a feature like the gloomstalker's Dread Ambusher, it's helpful to have a script for yourself to figure out how to apply all the pieces together.
The thing I had to learn when I leveled up and got more spell slots is that it's not wrong to cast Zephyr Strike more than once in a combat, even if still in effect, if I need the extra movement.
I love Zephyr Strike for situations where there is terrain or enemies that make moving around advantageous. If I am fighting melee, dashing in and out can be super interesting. It's also good for an archer when the enemies have come right into your face and you need to back off to use the ranged attack.
Hunter's Mark does more straight damage but it's not super interesting to play - it's just extra dice. Zephyr Strike changes my tactics and behavior choices.
In theory you can apply the attack bonus to any single round while the spell is in effect - but in practice I always use it when I cast the spell so that I don't risk losing concentration, plus the whole "make them dead sooner" advantage. If you are using it with a feature like the gloomstalker's Dread Ambusher, it's helpful to have a script for yourself to figure out how to apply all the pieces together.
The thing I had to learn when I leveled up and got more spell slots is that it's not wrong to cast Zephyr Strike more than once in a combat, even if still in effect, if I need the extra movement.
I agree mostly but you can make Hunters Mark more interesting at times. My party fought a hord of Orcs. We wiped them out all but the chief who I had shifted Hunters Mark to. Let him think he escaped and followed him shortly after to his lair and the tribes vast treasure. The advantage on survival for tracking saved me on two rolls. Tracking prey is interesting in my book.
With the bonus to initiative, the extra +10' on first round of combat + extra strike on first round + Zephyr Strike to get advantage on 1 attack (with extra damage) + no opportunity against you + extra 30' movement on the round you use the 1 boosted attack.
To reach a distant back line caster, you can move your 40' towards the target (without fear of opportunity), throw a dagger with advantage bonus (1 of your attacks if you have multiattack) = gives you an extra 30' movement (total 70' movement) = can reach the caster enemy and do your remaining attack WHICH then gives you the Gloom Stalker EXTRA attack (with extra damage)!!!
With the bonus to initiative, the extra +10' on first round of combat + extra strike on first round + Zephyr Strike to get advantage on 1 attack (with extra damage) + no opportunity against you + extra 30' movement on the round you use the 1 boosted attack.
To reach a distant back line caster, you can move your 40' towards the target (without fear of opportunity), throw a dagger with advantage bonus (1 of your attacks if you have multiattack) = gives you an extra 30' movement (total 70' movement) = can reach the caster enemy and do your remaining attack WHICH then gives you the Gloom Stalker EXTRA attack (with extra damage)!!!
I would argue that while zephyr strike is useful as a tool for archers to scape getting surrounded that is a fairly rare occurrence and that it is best used by a melee ranger to move around/thru the minions and to the leaders doing a major strike with the advantage attack and then getting away after. The ranger can move past any number of foes without triggering opportunity attacks and reach group leaders as a striker. This also allows the melee ranger to disrupt enemy formations or moving to take out attacking archers. Other uses could be to move back drawing foes into opportunity attacks from neighboring party members.
Agree, being able to cut through the crowds to get to the enemy boss/strongest fighter is a very useful way to use it, and also the ability to snipe in and then back off from a tough melee enemy. My dex-based armor isn't that great, but if the Big Bad doesn't attack me because I'm not in range, it's plenty. He goes for the tank, I snipe in with plenty of damage, it works great.
Just to add a different wrinkle... my 9th level Gloom stalker, has started any surprise round with Hail of Thornes as a 3rd level spell. Espechially if its true surprise and I have 3 or 4 minions grouped with some sort of caster or healer/big bad guy. Bonus action cast it, 1st arrow will have 1d8, 1d8 dread ambush, D10 Sharpshooter, 3d10(save for half to the main target), 3d10 to minions with in 5ft(save for half). 2nd round is often Entangle or spike growth. If there is still a lot going on I will either cast Zepher Strike or Hunters Mark depending on situation or just make my 2 attacks and move to safe spots.
hunter’s mark is if you attack a few strong enemies, zephyr strike is to cover a lot of ground. zephyr strike is more useful for encounters you haven’t prepared for and hunter’s mark for planned attacks. zephyr strike on a gloomstalker can take most of the sting of an ambush out by making 3-4 attacks across the battlefield, but hunter’s mark plus collossus slayer can do a lot of consistent damage. do think about the fact ranger’s have low numbers of spell slots( and hunter’s mark is more conservative) and they have a lot of concentration spells ( zephyr strike doesn’t require that long concentration). healing spells can be more important than either in some parties
To hunter’s mark is if you attack a few strong enemies, zephyr strike is to cover a lot of ground. zephyr strike is more useful for encounters you haven’t prepared for and hunter’s mark for planned attacks. zephyr strike on a gloomstalker can take most of the sting of an ambush out by making 3-4 attacks across the battlefield, but hunter’s mark plus collossus slayer can do a lot of consistent damage. do think about the fact ranger’s have low numbers of spell slots( and hunter’s mark is more conservative) and they have a lot of concentration spells ( zephyr strike doesn’t require that long concentration). healing spells can be more important than either in some parties
To expand on this a little, if you are fighting a lot of relatively low HP enemies, Hunter's Mark is a lot less useful because (a) you may be able to one-hit them without HM and (b) you may be attacking more than one enemy during your turn, meaning the subsequent enemies aren't Marked. In this case, Zephyr Strike gives you mobility to move between enemies and away from enemies which may be much more useful.
By contrast, if you are fighting one very tough monster, HM adds to your damage on every successful attack. You don't need to move it and if you can avoid getting hit (or losing concentration) it can add a fair amount of damage. My gloomstalker fights with two shortswords so on a regular combat round, they get three swings.
As you level up and have more spell slots, it may be useful to use both in a single combat. Zephyr Strike lets you get to the big scary guy quickly, hit him with advantage and an extra d8, and then you can decide if it's better to be able to back away from him into cover each round or if it's better to swap to HM and get the extra d6 on each attack.
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Throwing out another question for folks to discuss - what types of rangers and when are the best times and folks to use these two spells.
Hunter’s Mark: +1D6 damage on each hit and tracking/locating bonuses.
Zephyr’s Strike: foes don’t get opportunity attacks for duration, advantage and +1d8 force damage on 1 attack/casting and +30’ movement on round you use the advantage.
both are powerful and useful spells, but which rangers are better off using which spell and when? A second part is subtler - how do you (or your DM) rule on the power round for zephyr strike? Does the advantage etc end the spell or could you use it round 1 and then keep concentrating and get up to 9 more rounds free of opportunity attacks? When I read it it isn’t clear from the wording.
for me, two weapon fighters and archers after L5 are better off using hunter’s mark and getting the extra damage as many times a round as you can hit. Non two weapon fighting melee rangers are better off using zephyr strike to avoid as many opportunity attacks as possible. As a player I want to use the power round anytime I want as long as I can maintain concentration, as a DM I’m not so sure I want it played that way - call me undecided 😳.
What are Your Thoughts?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Zephyr Strike is pretty clear. While you maintain concentration you do not provoke opportunity attacks. And one time during the spells duration you can give yourself advantage on a weapon attack that if it hits deals additional damage. You then gain 30 movement speed for the turn that you made the attack. Making the attack does not end the spell.
Zephyr Strike is probably best used if you get surrounded as a archer, as you can pop the spell to move away then attack an enemy to trigger another 30 ft of movement to run away some more in essence giving you a free Dash Action.
I would argue that while zephyr strike is useful as a tool for archers to scape getting surrounded that is a fairly rare occurrence and that it is best used by a melee ranger to move around/thru the minions and to the leaders doing a major strike with the advantage attack and then getting away after. The ranger can move past any number of foes without triggering opportunity attacks and reach group leaders as a striker. This also allows the melee ranger to disrupt enemy formations or moving to take out attacking archers. Other uses could be to move back drawing foes into opportunity attacks from neighboring party members.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
That is how I use it. Traded it out with an underused spell when I leveled recently. Then next fight we were in a tight canyon with baddies all around! Really helped me get away & stay ahead of them as I peppered them with arrows!
I love Zephyr Strike for situations where there is terrain or enemies that make moving around advantageous. If I am fighting melee, dashing in and out can be super interesting. It's also good for an archer when the enemies have come right into your face and you need to back off to use the ranged attack.
Hunter's Mark does more straight damage but it's not super interesting to play - it's just extra dice. Zephyr Strike changes my tactics and behavior choices.
In theory you can apply the attack bonus to any single round while the spell is in effect - but in practice I always use it when I cast the spell so that I don't risk losing concentration, plus the whole "make them dead sooner" advantage. If you are using it with a feature like the gloomstalker's Dread Ambusher, it's helpful to have a script for yourself to figure out how to apply all the pieces together.
The thing I had to learn when I leveled up and got more spell slots is that it's not wrong to cast Zephyr Strike more than once in a combat, even if still in effect, if I need the extra movement.
I agree mostly but you can make Hunters Mark more interesting at times. My party fought a hord of Orcs. We wiped them out all but the chief who I had shifted Hunters Mark to. Let him think he escaped and followed him shortly after to his lair and the tribes vast treasure. The advantage on survival for tracking saved me on two rolls. Tracking prey is interesting in my book.
The ability to use Hunter's Mark to track someone trying to run away is I agree a super interesting use of it!
Ranger Gloom Stalker = Zephyr Strike!
With the bonus to initiative, the extra +10' on first round of combat + extra strike on first round + Zephyr Strike to get advantage on 1 attack (with extra damage) + no opportunity against you + extra 30' movement on the round you use the 1 boosted attack.
To reach a distant back line caster, you can move your 40' towards the target (without fear of opportunity), throw a dagger with advantage bonus (1 of your attacks if you have multiattack) = gives you an extra 30' movement (total 70' movement) = can reach the caster enemy and do your remaining attack WHICH then gives you the Gloom Stalker EXTRA attack (with extra damage)!!!
Every other Ranger build = Hunter's Mark!
Or use a Longbow with Hunter's Mark.....
Agree, being able to cut through the crowds to get to the enemy boss/strongest fighter is a very useful way to use it, and also the ability to snipe in and then back off from a tough melee enemy. My dex-based armor isn't that great, but if the Big Bad doesn't attack me because I'm not in range, it's plenty. He goes for the tank, I snipe in with plenty of damage, it works great.
Just to add a different wrinkle... my 9th level Gloom stalker, has started any surprise round with Hail of Thornes as a 3rd level spell. Espechially if its true surprise and I have 3 or 4 minions grouped with some sort of caster or healer/big bad guy. Bonus action cast it, 1st arrow will have 1d8, 1d8 dread ambush, D10 Sharpshooter, 3d10(save for half to the main target), 3d10 to minions with in 5ft(save for half). 2nd round is often Entangle or spike growth. If there is still a lot going on I will either cast Zepher Strike or Hunters Mark depending on situation or just make my 2 attacks and move to safe spots.
hunter’s mark is if you attack a few strong enemies, zephyr strike is to cover a lot of ground. zephyr strike is more useful for encounters you haven’t prepared for and hunter’s mark for planned attacks. zephyr strike on a gloomstalker can take most of the sting of an ambush out by making 3-4 attacks across the battlefield, but hunter’s mark plus collossus slayer can do a lot of consistent damage. do think about the fact ranger’s have low numbers of spell slots( and hunter’s mark is more conservative) and they have a lot of concentration spells ( zephyr strike doesn’t require that long concentration). healing spells can be more important than either in some parties
To expand on this a little, if you are fighting a lot of relatively low HP enemies, Hunter's Mark is a lot less useful because (a) you may be able to one-hit them without HM and (b) you may be attacking more than one enemy during your turn, meaning the subsequent enemies aren't Marked. In this case, Zephyr Strike gives you mobility to move between enemies and away from enemies which may be much more useful.
By contrast, if you are fighting one very tough monster, HM adds to your damage on every successful attack. You don't need to move it and if you can avoid getting hit (or losing concentration) it can add a fair amount of damage. My gloomstalker fights with two shortswords so on a regular combat round, they get three swings.
As you level up and have more spell slots, it may be useful to use both in a single combat. Zephyr Strike lets you get to the big scary guy quickly, hit him with advantage and an extra d8, and then you can decide if it's better to be able to back away from him into cover each round or if it's better to swap to HM and get the extra d6 on each attack.