Ranger 2024 is just a demonstration of how incompetent the people who wrote the rulebooks are. Playing the iconic bow-wielding ranger is only for those who enjoy roleplaying, which makes it pointless to spend money on work that hasn't been done. Granting spells that are practically worthless, acquiring a 20th-level ability that's practically inconsistent, and removing nice things like the ability to move through difficult terrain. If we were at a table with friends, I could understand it. Asking for money for this crap makes no sense.
Ranger 2024 is just a demonstration of how incompetent the people who wrote the rulebooks are. Playing the iconic bow-wielding ranger is only for those who enjoy roleplaying, which makes it pointless to spend money on work that hasn't been done. Granting spells that are practically worthless, acquiring a 20th-level ability that's practically inconsistent, and removing nice things like the ability to move through difficult terrain. If we were at a table with friends, I could understand it. Asking for money for this crap makes no sense.
I don't think its that far out of bounds to dislike the new ranger. I am a 14 ranger Main and will never touch 24 ranger. If i have to play 24 I will play something other than ranger but hopefully my tables would rather try something else.
It is there first post and some of the comments feel like hyperbole so it might be a troll.
However, the theory that the new design is inferior can at least be supported as an opinion. (so can the opposite). i am going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was an angry post but not quite a troll one.
There is a grave misunderstanding of what a ranger is.
A ranger is not a longbow shooting PC from a distance. I mean they can do that but don't specialize in it. You won't do well.
What rangers actually are is skirmishers. Skirmishers excel in short range weapons. Their class features support this. Extra mobility. Ability to turn invisible which means enemies cannot make opportunity attacks against you.
Try weapons like dagger/dart throwing. Hand Xbows or duel weird. Shortbow with vex actually out damages longbow until you get to level 17 and get Auto advantage.
Also, the temp HP from tireless makes you one of the best scouts and trap disarmers. Cuz if you get hit by environmental hazards, you can just renew your temp HP.
You make some valid arguments here. The unfortuante problem many Ranger players face though is that many campaigns do not give a Ranger space to shine. Unfortunately exploration and survival is often ignored in campaigns because they require more work on the part of the GameMaster. I know this from experience on both ends.
That said, I did play one campaign decades ago where the GameMaster took these things into consideration and my 2nd Edition Pathfinder Kit Ranger was incredibly fun to play. Unfortunately, that kind of campaign takes work and imagination to develop.
You make some valid arguments here. The unfortuante problem many Ranger players face though is that many campaigns do not give a Ranger space to shine. Unfortunately exploration and survival is often ignored in campaigns because they require more work on the part of the GameMaster. I know this from experience on both ends.
That said, I did play one campaign decades ago where the GameMaster took these things into consideration and my 2nd Edition Pathfinder Kit Ranger was incredibly fun to play. Unfortunately, that kind of campaign takes work and imagination to develop.
I just had an epiphany, a warlock (not all subclasses) can communicate with the ranger, when it is out beyond LOS, via several mind reading type functions. A warlock can also use their familiar in combat which can also be a "companion" partner when the Ranger is out scouting.
This does not minimize the DMs workload, nor prevent the other PCs twiddling their thumbs, but it can allow a split of the party.
My personal opinion is that the Ranger works well with a well-developed sandbox type campaign. Where the GameMaster knows what is surrounding the base the players start at and can let the players explore at their discretion.
Of course there are ways for the GM to reduce his load. For example, he never gives out a "map" of the area, that way, no matter what direction the players go they are going towards something he's designed and planned.
A Ranger taking point in this type of campaign as they move overland and also ensuring that they stay well provisioned with his survival, animal handling, and nature skills can be be an enjoyable campaign.
I do think WotC is trying to set up this sort of experience somewhat with the new Heroes of the Borderland and from what I've heard they are setting up similar sandboxes in the new Forgotten Realms release next month.
Again it still comes back to the GM being able to balance this style of play with others to keep everyone engaged.
I don't think the ranger needs such a sandbox. Just as a bard doesn't need a tavern or a city to function. This is because the features of bard that are social can still function via tricks and creative dungeon delving.
Similarly a ranger can use their skills in any environment as long the dm and players are willing to think about practically and scope of features. In the right mindset and design it's not even really extra work for the dm. It doesn't even have to be all paths lead to x either.
That being said certain designs are more "stable" features/metrics than others.
The 24 features do seem to limit the idea of a ranger (as a class) in different ways than 2014. 24 ranger may be arguably be a "skirmisher". However, ranger archetypes ( narrative groups of ranger than the dnd class) want less playstyle restrictions than provided by 24 dnd.
Ranger 2024 is just a demonstration of how incompetent the people who wrote the rulebooks are. Playing the iconic bow-wielding ranger is only for those who enjoy roleplaying, which makes it pointless to spend money on work that hasn't been done. Granting spells that are practically worthless, acquiring a 20th-level ability that's practically inconsistent, and removing nice things like the ability to move through difficult terrain. If we were at a table with friends, I could understand it. Asking for money for this crap makes no sense.
Troll - Fail
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
There is a grave misunderstanding of what a ranger is.
A ranger is not a longbow shooting PC from a distance. I mean they can do that but don't specialize in it. You won't do well.
What rangers actually are is skirmishers. Skirmishers excel in short range weapons. Their class features support this. Extra mobility. Ability to turn invisible which means enemies cannot make opportunity attacks against you.
Try weapons like dagger/dart throwing. Hand Xbows or duel weird. Shortbow with vex actually out damages longbow until you get to level 17 and get Auto advantage.
Also, the temp HP from tireless makes you one of the best scouts and trap disarmers. Cuz if you get hit by environmental hazards, you can just renew your temp HP.
You make some valid arguments here. The unfortuante problem many Ranger players face though is that many campaigns do not give a Ranger space to shine. Unfortunately exploration and survival is often ignored in campaigns because they require more work on the part of the GameMaster. I know this from experience on both ends.
That said, I did play one campaign decades ago where the GameMaster took these things into consideration and my 2nd Edition Pathfinder Kit Ranger was incredibly fun to play. Unfortunately, that kind of campaign takes work and imagination to develop.
I just had an epiphany, a warlock (not all subclasses) can communicate with the ranger, when it is out beyond LOS, via several mind reading type functions. A warlock can also use their familiar in combat which can also be a "companion" partner when the Ranger is out scouting.
This does not minimize the DMs workload, nor prevent the other PCs twiddling their thumbs, but it can allow a split of the party.
My personal opinion is that the Ranger works well with a well-developed sandbox type campaign. Where the GameMaster knows what is surrounding the base the players start at and can let the players explore at their discretion.
Of course there are ways for the GM to reduce his load. For example, he never gives out a "map" of the area, that way, no matter what direction the players go they are going towards something he's designed and planned.
A Ranger taking point in this type of campaign as they move overland and also ensuring that they stay well provisioned with his survival, animal handling, and nature skills can be be an enjoyable campaign.
I do think WotC is trying to set up this sort of experience somewhat with the new Heroes of the Borderland and from what I've heard they are setting up similar sandboxes in the new Forgotten Realms release next month.
Again it still comes back to the GM being able to balance this style of play with others to keep everyone engaged.
I don't think the ranger needs such a sandbox. Just as a bard doesn't need a tavern or a city to function. This is because the features of bard that are social can still function via tricks and creative dungeon delving.
Similarly a ranger can use their skills in any environment as long the dm and players are willing to think about practically and scope of features. In the right mindset and design it's not even really extra work for the dm. It doesn't even have to be all paths lead to x either.
That being said certain designs are more "stable" features/metrics than others.
The 24 features do seem to limit the idea of a ranger (as a class) in different ways than 2014. 24 ranger may be arguably be a "skirmisher". However, ranger archetypes ( narrative groups of ranger than the dnd class) want less playstyle restrictions than provided by 24 dnd.