Genie Paladin gets 11 subclass spells. Winter Walker Ranger gets 5 subclass spells. Why does Paladin always get so much more for their features? (I guess i should be happy the WW gets any spells at all- RIP Hunter & Beast Master.) Shouldn't these 2 half-caster martial classes feel more equal in the number and quality of features? (Sorry. This is a particular crusade of mine. Pallys seem like they have way more- and more effective- offensive & defensive features. The Ranger only seems to pull ahead of the Paladin in the skills part of the game.)
I'm not wild about tying even more features to the Hunter's Mark spell, for the same arguments many have been making since 2024 Ranger came out- it ties up concentration, which makes you choose between using your base and subclass features or using your other concentration spells.
That said, the Winter Walker looks interesting. It immediately makes me wonder if there will be future subclasses themed around the other elemental damage types. It also makes me wonder why something like these features couldn't have been baked into the base class- or, at least if the subclass could be expanded so that you can choose or change your elemental damage type, so it's more versatile. Like, choose an elemental resistance & extra damage at low level, but then at mid or higher level, you can choose any single elemental resistance & damage on a long rest. Chilling Retribution could be Elemental Retribution, and each element could have a status effect tied to it. This would be a unique reaction option that no other class has, and could help to define the Ranger as a Primal magic Warrior. Frozen Haunt could be made so that any of the elemental damage types applied. This could be something like a more martial version of the 2014 Moon Druid going full Elemental. Imagine a Ranger, engulfed in flames, shooting Flaming arrows or arcing bright flames at enemies with their melee weapon. Or sizzling and dripping acid, like some humanoid xenomorph. Or sparking lightning like Electro. Or bludgeoning enemies like Sandman.
Ice knife is bad as spell on a ranger at 3rd level. I think if they will be adding fettures to hunters mark then bonus spells from subclass should be nonconcentration buffs or utillity. I WANT Armor of Agathys at 3rd level on this thing so baaaaaad, with temp hit points from hunters mark that scale with level it would be amazing and cold damage fits pefectly. Sory for bad english.
Winter Walker Ranger is very good, but niche in personal opinion. It would be thematically appropriate for Icewind Dale or other cold environments. Not sure how well it would fit for other settings, especially homebrews.
Flavorwise, I feel like I'd be able to adapt for more than just cold biomes. Could even lean into the wraith-like feel to it and have some spiritual fun, but I absolutely adore Icewind so I'm excited. Aside from the flavor this oozes, I think its a step in the right direction but still has opportunity for improvement.
The 1d4/1d6 I feel is on the lower side, but I'd also love to see it possibly doubled if the source already does cold damage. Preventing disengage is great, but I'd love to see them maybe take another step and also prevent dash.
Apart from also wishing Ice Knife was replaced with Armor of Agathys, I also wish Fortifying Soul had an effect for Long Rests. It's a cool effect, but if you're at a table that doesn't do short rests that often, you essentially don't have a level 7 upgrade. This has great bones and I truly want to see it survive the UA, especially since it's coming out the gate with such strong potential. Despite its strength, this is my favorite from the bunch.
one thing i noticed about the winter walker is the spell "sleet storm". Its a specifically ends concentration and is cold adjacent. This conflict is odd for the theme.
Given that we have to work with the 2024 ranger and its problems (for now only hopefully) it's a good start. Like others I would love to see it opened up into a more elemental ranger. I could fairly easily rework it for a desert themed ranger for Anauroch/Calim/Plains of purple dust. Similarly, an ocean/water variant wouldn't be that hard to do either. Doing something wiht air or earth might be a bit harder - at least to find a reasonable location to base it out of. Mechanically its fairly decent with something usable at every subclass level. Is it perfect? no - things like iceknife vs armor of Agathys show problems to be resolved (or not) but its a good start for a decent subclass for November's book.
Its a good subclass. Like above one of my main pieces of feedback will be Agathys over Ice Knife. For ranged characters, Ice Knife just won't be useful in any way.
I like the general feel for it. It has good flavor.
As a subclass it appeals to the John snow rangers( or revanant movie) and it turns hunter's mark into a gamplay feature. It gives a look at the possibility of what the 2014 ranger could provide.
However I still do not feel like it appeals to any of the fantasy of rangers I like . Infact it feels like a half dead person who "died" in a survival situation rather than a survival expert.
With slight adjustments it could be a fun addition to the game but the "prepared everyman" that is core to most ranger fantasy isn't there.
On a side note ice knife appears to need a buff most classes/subclasses that get it probably not take it unless theme is more important than balance.
one thing i noticed about the winter walker is the spell "sleet storm". Its a specifically ends concentration and is cold adjacent. This conflict is odd for the theme.
How is that related to the winter walker?
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Sleet storm is a cold rain that disrupts concentration. Winter walkers are resistant or immune to cold.
Winter walkers need to keep concentration to use the best of their features (including immunity to cold.) So the "best way to fight a Winter walkers is to cast sleet storm. Does that make sense to you?
So you're saying they should get immunity to a random spell?
No. I'm saying the current design team still doesn't understand how to mix theme and mecanical framework. This creates funny tonal dissonance. They like giving cool stuff but don't do more than a shallow gamplay evaluation. They outsource that to the optimizer community.
Maybe the spell should be changed or maybe the ranger base built off of Hunter's mark wasn't smart, maybe it should just stay as a funny gimmick.
But at least people should be aware of the interaction.
So you're saying they should get immunity to a random spell?
No. I'm saying the current design team still doesn't understand how to mix theme and mecanical framework. This creates funny tonal dissonance. They like giving cool stuff but don't do more than a shallow gamplay evaluation. They outsource that to the optimizer community.
Maybe the spell should be changed or maybe the ranger base built off of Hunter's mark wasn't smart, maybe it should just stay as a funny gimmick.
But at least people should be aware of the interaction.
I don't understand how you are making these claims solely because the flavor of a spell that happens to be good against rangers clashes with the flavor of this subclass.
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"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"A duck."
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
I hate the whole Hunter's Mark mess as much as a lot of people do, but this at least gives it some kind of use. For many of us who just won't use Hunter's Mark at all, at least now you can use it at the beginning of the day, target whoever, get the temporary hit points, then stop concentrating on it. It's not a wonderful use of Hunter's Mark by any means, but at least it's better than nothing.
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https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium-images/ua/forgotten-realms-subclasses/OXcW3UjTCurUcQy7/UA2025-RealmsSubclasses.pdf
So how do we feel about the new Unearthed Arcana Ranger subclass?
Genie Paladin gets 11 subclass spells. Winter Walker Ranger gets 5 subclass spells. Why does Paladin always get so much more for their features? (I guess i should be happy the WW gets any spells at all- RIP Hunter & Beast Master.) Shouldn't these 2 half-caster martial classes feel more equal in the number and quality of features? (Sorry. This is a particular crusade of mine. Pallys seem like they have way more- and more effective- offensive & defensive features. The Ranger only seems to pull ahead of the Paladin in the skills part of the game.)
I'm not wild about tying even more features to the Hunter's Mark spell, for the same arguments many have been making since 2024 Ranger came out- it ties up concentration, which makes you choose between using your base and subclass features or using your other concentration spells.
That said, the Winter Walker looks interesting. It immediately makes me wonder if there will be future subclasses themed around the other elemental damage types. It also makes me wonder why something like these features couldn't have been baked into the base class- or, at least if the subclass could be expanded so that you can choose or change your elemental damage type, so it's more versatile. Like, choose an elemental resistance & extra damage at low level, but then at mid or higher level, you can choose any single elemental resistance & damage on a long rest. Chilling Retribution could be Elemental Retribution, and each element could have a status effect tied to it. This would be a unique reaction option that no other class has, and could help to define the Ranger as a Primal magic Warrior. Frozen Haunt could be made so that any of the elemental damage types applied. This could be something like a more martial version of the 2014 Moon Druid going full Elemental. Imagine a Ranger, engulfed in flames, shooting Flaming arrows or arcing bright flames at enemies with their melee weapon. Or sizzling and dripping acid, like some humanoid xenomorph. Or sparking lightning like Electro. Or bludgeoning enemies like Sandman.
Anyway. Those were some of my thoughts. 🤷♂️
Ice knife is bad as spell on a ranger at 3rd level. I think if they will be adding fettures to hunters mark then bonus spells from subclass should be nonconcentration buffs or utillity. I WANT Armor of Agathys at 3rd level on this thing so baaaaaad, with temp hit points from hunters mark that scale with level it would be amazing and cold damage fits pefectly. Sory for bad english.
Thematically this has got to be up there with my favorite subclasses in 5e, and mechanically I'm liking it quite a lot as well.
Really hope this one doesn't get axed like most of the other UA subclasses I've liked over the years.
Winter Walker Ranger is very good, but niche in personal opinion. It would be thematically appropriate for Icewind Dale or other cold environments. Not sure how well it would fit for other settings, especially homebrews.
Flavorwise, I feel like I'd be able to adapt for more than just cold biomes. Could even lean into the wraith-like feel to it and have some spiritual fun, but I absolutely adore Icewind so I'm excited. Aside from the flavor this oozes, I think its a step in the right direction but still has opportunity for improvement.
The 1d4/1d6 I feel is on the lower side, but I'd also love to see it possibly doubled if the source already does cold damage. Preventing disengage is great, but I'd love to see them maybe take another step and also prevent dash.
Apart from also wishing Ice Knife was replaced with Armor of Agathys, I also wish Fortifying Soul had an effect for Long Rests. It's a cool effect, but if you're at a table that doesn't do short rests that often, you essentially don't have a level 7 upgrade. This has great bones and I truly want to see it survive the UA, especially since it's coming out the gate with such strong potential. Despite its strength, this is my favorite from the bunch.
one thing i noticed about the winter walker is the spell "sleet storm". Its a specifically ends concentration and is cold adjacent. This conflict is odd for the theme.
Given that we have to work with the 2024 ranger and its problems (for now only hopefully) it's a good start. Like others I would love to see it opened up into a more elemental ranger. I could fairly easily rework it for a desert themed ranger for Anauroch/Calim/Plains of purple dust. Similarly, an ocean/water variant wouldn't be that hard to do either. Doing something wiht air or earth might be a bit harder - at least to find a reasonable location to base it out of. Mechanically its fairly decent with something usable at every subclass level. Is it perfect? no - things like iceknife vs armor of Agathys show problems to be resolved (or not) but its a good start for a decent subclass for November's book.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Its a good subclass. Like above one of my main pieces of feedback will be Agathys over Ice Knife. For ranged characters, Ice Knife just won't be useful in any way.
I like the general feel for it. It has good flavor.
As a subclass it appeals to the John snow rangers( or revanant movie) and it turns hunter's mark into a gamplay feature. It gives a look at the possibility of what the 2014 ranger could provide.
However I still do not feel like it appeals to any of the fantasy of rangers I like . Infact it feels like a half dead person who "died" in a survival situation rather than a survival expert.
With slight adjustments it could be a fun addition to the game but the "prepared everyman" that is core to most ranger fantasy isn't there.
On a side note ice knife appears to need a buff most classes/subclasses that get it probably not take it unless theme is more important than balance.
How is that related to the winter walker?
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Extended signature
Sleet storm is a cold rain that disrupts concentration. Winter walkers are resistant or immune to cold.
Winter walkers need to keep concentration to use the best of their features (including immunity to cold.) So the "best way to fight a Winter walkers is to cast sleet storm. Does that make sense to you?
So you're saying they should get immunity to a random spell?
Quotes to answer any question (pm me more)
Extended signature
No. I'm saying the current design team still doesn't understand how to mix theme and mecanical framework. This creates funny tonal dissonance. They like giving cool stuff but don't do more than a shallow gamplay evaluation. They outsource that to the optimizer community.
Maybe the spell should be changed or maybe the ranger base built off of Hunter's mark wasn't smart, maybe it should just stay as a funny gimmick.
But at least people should be aware of the interaction.
I don't understand how you are making these claims solely because the flavor of a spell that happens to be good against rangers clashes with the flavor of this subclass.
Quotes to answer any question (pm me more)
Extended signature
I hate the whole Hunter's Mark mess as much as a lot of people do, but this at least gives it some kind of use. For many of us who just won't use Hunter's Mark at all, at least now you can use it at the beginning of the day, target whoever, get the temporary hit points, then stop concentrating on it. It's not a wonderful use of Hunter's Mark by any means, but at least it's better than nothing.