Agreed! It feels like WotC are scared to do a deep dive into rangers and ranger similar subclasses as it would weaken the outside subclasses and has the potential to make the ranger OP. Things that could make the ranger be or feel stronger (IMNSHO): grant the ranger double proficiency in nature and survival at L3 remove the scout rogue’s double proficiency in in nature and survival leaving them with basic proficiency. grant the ranger additional skills/feats as they level up (herbalism, cartography, navigation, cooking, etc) grant the ranger access to more elemental-primal spells like Snilloc’s snowballs or Melf’s meteors (the biggies like fireball & lightning bolt should stay wizards only) provide more survival type spells like purify food/drink, detect/neutralize poison,
Scout Rogue was very much an intentional bone thrown to the people who wanted to play a spell-free Ranger, which, for the people who wanted it, is closer to popular figures like Aragorn and Legolas than the 1/2 caster we got in both 2014 and 2024.
I don't see how they would give Rangers spells like Snilloc's Snowball Swarm or Melf's Minute Meteors without also giving them to Druids since Druids are full casters and vast majority of Ranger spells come from the Druid list. So i think you need to first convince the devs that Druids ought to have more direct access to AoE blast spells (even if they are mostly weaker than the overtuned Wizard staples).
Neutralize Poison was a 3e spell, wasn't it? They replaced that with Lesser Restoration.
Last but not least, "navigation" and "cartography" aren't D&D skills. Could you make an argument that they should be? Maybe. However, i'm not convinced that the devs have any interest in making the Exploration pillar important enough to warrant that kind of adjustment. This being based on several people complaining about how boring the Exploration pillar was years ago and them having changed nothing in for the 2024 PHB to imply that kind of detailed worldbuilding of the outdoors, implying that they don't think there is a big enough audience for that kind of mechanical rules expansion.
Fine be pedantic, so instead of navigation and cartography they get navigator’s tools and cartographer’s tools - you got the idea. As for the scout rogue I don’t have a problem with it as the spellless ranger - if you make it the same not superior. Just take away the double proficiency granting them basic proficiency at L3 and let them use 2 of their 4 granted expertises on nature and survival if the expertise. Now the spells - rangers originally (1e) were fighters that got first Druid spells (at mid levels) and then mage spells at higher levels so there is plenty of tradition for them to get more than just Druid spells. There are a lot of low levels “arcane” spells that nature themed or “primal” that would make sense as ranger spells - fog cloud, grease, Thunderwave, witchbolt (lightning). Heck I don’t have a problem with adding many to the Druid list as well, I’ve never understood why Druids had so little in the way of “primal energy” spells anyway.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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Scout Rogue was very much an intentional bone thrown to the people who wanted to play a spell-free Ranger, which, for the people who wanted it, is closer to popular figures like Aragorn and Legolas than the 1/2 caster we got in both 2014 and 2024.
I don't see how they would give Rangers spells like Snilloc's Snowball Swarm or Melf's Minute Meteors without also giving them to Druids since Druids are full casters and vast majority of Ranger spells come from the Druid list. So i think you need to first convince the devs that Druids ought to have more direct access to AoE blast spells (even if they are mostly weaker than the overtuned Wizard staples).
Neutralize Poison was a 3e spell, wasn't it? They replaced that with Lesser Restoration.
Last but not least, "navigation" and "cartography" aren't D&D skills. Could you make an argument that they should be? Maybe. However, i'm not convinced that the devs have any interest in making the Exploration pillar important enough to warrant that kind of adjustment. This being based on several people complaining about how boring the Exploration pillar was years ago and them having changed nothing in for the 2024 PHB to imply that kind of detailed worldbuilding of the outdoors, implying that they don't think there is a big enough audience for that kind of mechanical rules expansion.
Fine be pedantic, so instead of navigation and cartography they get navigator’s tools and cartographer’s tools - you got the idea. As for the scout rogue I don’t have a problem with it as the spellless ranger - if you make it the same not superior. Just take away the double proficiency granting them basic proficiency at L3 and let them use 2 of their 4 granted expertises on nature and survival if the expertise. Now the spells - rangers originally (1e) were fighters that got first Druid spells (at mid levels) and then mage spells at higher levels so there is plenty of tradition for them to get more than just Druid spells. There are a lot of low levels “arcane” spells that nature themed or “primal” that would make sense as ranger spells - fog cloud, grease, Thunderwave, witchbolt (lightning). Heck I don’t have a problem with adding many to the Druid list as well, I’ve never understood why Druids had so little in the way of “primal energy” spells anyway.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.