I was looking back at the spells that are available to the ranger class, and in theory they aren't bad at all. There are a lot of things that should go well with it thematically. But in two years of play, I've almost never seen someone playing a ranger use many of them. I just noticed why: all the combat spells, even the one hit melee attacks, use concentration.
This is deeply sub-optimal, because the core combat feature of Rangers in a fight really is the Hunter's Mark spell, which already hogs concentration. Especially early on, with only a few spell slots, trying to use a cool spell like one of the strikes or hail of thorns is really discouraged. More, this also messes with all the out of combat spells the ranger gets. Who is going to offer to cast Detect Magic to investigate the suspicious wall if it risks turning them into a featureless fighter in combat?
My theory is that when 5e was being developed, the Paladin was made a "half-caster" to limit the power of smite, and the Paladin's "smite" spells were made concentration in order to tone down the power as well.
When it came time to make the ranger, the idea of the half caster was thrown onto the Ranger and its strikes were treated like smites. Voila, the fighter/druid to the Paladin's fighter/cleric!
The problem is that the spells of the Ranger just don't compare to that of the Paladin in power, and the Ranger has no class features like smite, additional subclass spells, and lay on hands that balance out that power.
If I were to try to fix this issue, I would just say that Rangers should get spell slots back on a short rest like Warlocks, or at least get the Druid's short rest spell slot regeneration. Also, I would remove concentration from all the "strike" like spells specific to the Ranger.
Alternatively, Hunter's mark could be made something more like a limited resource class feature that doesn't compete with spells for concentration.
All good points, and I think most of these have been picked up within the UA updates . Problem is these aren't integrated into Dndbeyond yet, so DMs can easily overlook them.
All good points, and I think most of these have been picked up within the UA updates . Problem is these aren't integrated into Dndbeyond yet, so DMs can easily overlook them.
Im not sure the UA updates really go very far in fixing the issues. They basically just make favored enemy better and make the Beast Master viable. But the core issue with Hunter spells being so hard to use isn't really addressed.
I consider this UA to be a much better fix to the Ranger class as a whole, I wouldn't use it for the Xanathar's subclasses though as they were intentionally made to be stronger than the other Ranger subclasses and have a larger lean on spellcasting. So it could have weird interactions with this, and likely be ahead of the intended power curve. https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes
Then class varient feature changes hunters mark to and ability and removes concentration. You can cast up to wisdom modifier without use of spell slot. That is a significant bonus.
It should be mentioned that with specific builds of Ranger it is beneficial to pick up different spells. Here are a few examples to consider (the ones I have are for Hunter Ranger).
If you picked up the feature Giant Killer that functions only against large or larger creatures, you should also consider picking up Ensnaring Strike, since that spell's blindspot (large or larger) gets covered by that feature.
Instead of that there are another few spells that synergize with a few features of Hunter as well. Since Hail of thorns provides an aoe with an attack, it becomes more beneficial if your features already focus on creatures within close proximity of each other, this is why there's some synergy with the Horde Breaker feature (horde breaker doubles the chances of hail of thorns functioning), but even greater synergy lies with an upcasted hail of thorns or lightning arrow (lightning arrow if they're a larger radius apart, hail of thorns for more damage) combined with the Volley feature the Hunter gets at 11th level, which does very good aoe, and this still could potentially synergize with horde breaker as well.
I also would like to say that there are a few Ranger concentration spells out there that stand up to hunter's mark in my eyes, that being Zephyr Strike (1 minute long disengage with extra damage, advantage, and a dash action on one turn. All of that just for one spell slot and a bonus action.), Fog Cloud (great for leaving enemies in the dark during ambushes, or if you're trying to flee and make a diversion), Stoneskin (so long as you can maintain concentration its essentially a barbarian rage that lasts one hour), and Healing Spirit (Overall great healing spell that has been nerfed, but still is the Ranger's version of healing word)
Ranger spells are weak ???? Have you ever tested the Volley of arrows spell ?? Have you tested the Aimed arrow spell ?? And what about the Guidance cantrip ??
It should be mentioned that with specific builds of Ranger it is beneficial to pick up different spells. Here are a few examples to consider (the ones I have are for Hunter Ranger).
If you picked up the feature Giant Killer that functions only against large or larger creatures, you should also consider picking up Ensnaring Strike, since that spell's blindspot (large or larger) gets covered by that feature.
Instead of that there are another few spells that synergize with a few features of Hunter as well. Since Hail of thorns provides an aoe with an attack, it becomes more beneficial if your features already focus on creatures within close proximity of each other, this is why there's some synergy with the Horde Breaker feature (horde breaker doubles the chances of hail of thorns functioning), but even greater synergy lies with an upcasted hail of thorns or lightning arrow (lightning arrow if they're a larger radius apart, hail of thorns for more damage) combined with the Volley feature the Hunter gets at 11th level, which does very good aoe, and this still could potentially synergize with horde breaker as well.
I also would like to say that there are a few Ranger concentration spells out there that stand up to hunter's mark in my eyes, that being Zephyr Strike (1 minute long disengage with extra damage, advantage, and a dash action on one turn. All of that just for one spell slot and a bonus action.), Fog Cloud (great for leaving enemies in the dark during ambushes, or if you're trying to flee and make a diversion), Stoneskin (so long as you can maintain concentration its essentially a barbarian rage that lasts one hour), and Healing Spirit (Overall great healing spell that has been nerfed, but still is the Ranger's version of healing word)
There are great utility spells for sure. The issue is that all of the combat based spells conflict because of concentration. And a ranger who isn’t getting their use out of Hunter’s Mark competes with Monk for weakest martial class.
Ranger spells are weak ???? Have you ever tested the Volley of arrows spell ?? Have you tested the Aimed arrow spell ?? And what about the Guidance cantrip ??
"Volley of arrows" is not a spell. There's Conjure Volley, which is a 5th level spell, meaning rangers don't get it until level 17, so that's out the door for a lot of campaigns. And as an AOE, it relies on the ranger having actually put points into having a high WIS, so you're more likely looking at half damage. Not a bad spell, if that is the spell you meant, but again, not many campaigns go to level 17.
"Aimed arrow" is also not a spell, and I can't begin to guess which one you mean this time. If you meant Flame Arrows it's a third-level slot to do the same amount of damage as Hunter's Mark, and both take concentration (unless you're using the new UA option), but this takes an action to cast, meaning your attacks for one turn are limited or nonexistent. It also runs out after 12 arrows (which would be 4-6 rounds of combat, depending on if you have bonus action attacks) whereas Hunter's Mark's only limitation is keeping your concentration.
"Guidance" is an actual cantrip, but Rangers don't get cantrips as part of their normal build. It requires either the Class Features UA or taking a feat.
The ranger can be built with melee or ranged in mind, so it’s spells are quite diverse. If you are in melee then most of the spells you would use in melee are not going to create too many issues with concentration (as they usually end once the spell takes effect) and if you are at range then it’s less likely you will be attacked regardless and can maintain concentration longer.
This leaves a lot of diversity with the Ranger builds, allowing you to configure it for either or both situations. To give kind of a layout:
You typically have to choose between: High Wisdom and good Spell DC, OR Res Con and/or Warcaster and good concentration
The Ranger Spell list can specifically support either of these options as you get non-Save spells along with non-Concentration spells.
Poor Spell DC but good Concentration? Stick with Hunters Mark, Guardian of Nature, Swift Quiver, Healing.
Good Spell DC but bad Concentration? Stay out of range, Zephyr Strike, Lightning Arrow.
So what good is this class if it can’t do gobs of melee damage, lay out 30 goblins with a fireball, or assassinate a single target with ease?
It really is built on combat versatility. The ranger class fills ALL of the gaps in your party makeup that you need and the reason Rangers seem underpowered is because they specifically won’t do anything that any other specialist class does, better than they do.
But do away with the white room for a moment and consider that the Ranger can Heal and Buff allies with Stoneskin, Hold its own defending a Battlement as an archer, curse their enemies with ensnaring or traps, do some AoE with Volleys, Safe and Fast travel via spell or skill, Conjure allies, Completely clog the entire terrain with Plants and spikes....
They are the Swiss Army knife of the party. You can’t really just look at it on the surface and put into numbers the ability to be able to just kind of... “do” anything. Combine this with some very potent subclasses and they become even more versatile. Everything about this entire class and subclass is about always having *something* at your disposal. Whether you like that or not, is your choice of course.
There is no inherent weakness in this build - it does decent damage (amazing damage if at range and favored enemy), has the highest DC for spells, is viable in almost any situation, has great concentration checks, can fight in melee or range...
And hasn’t even picked up a subclass yet.
People also forget that taking ASIs on a ranger also means you’re buffing Dex Wis and Con, which are already the primary saves so buffing these will automatically improve the build’s overall strength regardless.
Ranger spells are weak ???? Have you ever tested the Volley of arrows spell ?? Have you tested the Aimed arrow spell ?? And what about the Guidance cantrip ??
I can only assume "Volley of arrows" is Conjure volley. Could you elaborate on the "Aimed Arrow" and how to get the guidance cantrip as ranger?
Whenever I'm looking at damage output numbers for a ranger compared to other martial classes (fighter, paladin, rogue, monk, barbarian) I always take into consideration how many targets are in play. Most of the time a see people calculating DPR with a single target, and of course that is where the fighter, paladin, barbarian, and rogue are going to shine. But if you take two or more targets into consideration the ranger (even the baseline ranger) can out perform them in total DPR. Consider a paladin at 10th level making their two attacks with a sword and a single 3rd level smite compared to a ranger with a longbow making two attacks and using a 3rd level hail of thorns. Now run the numbers again with two targets next to one another. (Remember that hail of thorns effects other creatures within 5 feet of the initial target, so if that initial target is large or bigger it has more squares around it that can effect additional creatures.) Now run the number again with the hunter subclass with horde breaker. Then run the numbers again with three targets being hit by the hail of thorns! Ranger damage is "swingy" and benefits from the situational setup of more than one target.
Whenever I'm looking at damage output numbers for a ranger compared to other martial classes (fighter, paladin, rogue, monk, barbarian) I always take into consideration how many targets are in play. Most of the time a see people calculating DPR with a single target, and of course that is where the fighter, paladin, barbarian, and rogue are going to shine. But if you take two or more targets into consideration the ranger (even the baseline ranger) can out perform them in total DPR. Consider a paladin at 10th level making their two attacks with a sword and a single 3rd level smite compared to a ranger with a longbow making two attacks and using a 3rd level hail of thorns. Now run the numbers again with two targets next to one another. (Remember that hail of thorns effects other creatures within 5 feet of the initial target, so if that initial target is large or bigger it has more squares around it that can effect additional creatures.) Now run the number again with the hunter subclass with horde breaker. Then run the numbers again with three targets being hit by the hail of thorns! Ranger damage is "swingy" and benefits from the situational setup of more than one target.
That is true, and it can be a fun option. But because of action economy, the game really rewards focusing down single targets over spreading out damage.
unless that spread out damage is multiplied over focused attacks, like fireball.
...because of action economy, the game really rewards downing targets over spreading out damage to targets that remain conscious.
A paladin would be (mathematically) less effective against 10 creatures than a ranger with one of its AoE attacks. The opposite would be true against a single large target, like a dragon. And if they are working together against a dragon and 10 kobolds, well...
Smites aside, just sort of long term consistent damage per round, rangers come out ahead of fighters and paladins similarly equipped at levels 1 through 10. Baseline classes: sword and shield fighter vs. sword and shield paladin vs. sword and shield ranger. From levels 11 on up I would argue they have more options and are more flexible than fighters, paladins, and barbarians. At levels 11+, rangers and rogues have the abilities to fill various other party roles besides pure combat.
I was looking back at the spells that are available to the ranger class, and in theory they aren't bad at all. There are a lot of things that should go well with it thematically. But in two years of play, I've almost never seen someone playing a ranger use many of them. I just noticed why: all the combat spells, even the one hit melee attacks, use concentration.
This is deeply sub-optimal, because the core combat feature of Rangers in a fight really is the Hunter's Mark spell, which already hogs concentration. Especially early on, with only a few spell slots, trying to use a cool spell like one of the strikes or hail of thorns is really discouraged. More, this also messes with all the out of combat spells the ranger gets. Who is going to offer to cast Detect Magic to investigate the suspicious wall if it risks turning them into a featureless fighter in combat?
My theory is that when 5e was being developed, the Paladin was made a "half-caster" to limit the power of smite, and the Paladin's "smite" spells were made concentration in order to tone down the power as well.
When it came time to make the ranger, the idea of the half caster was thrown onto the Ranger and its strikes were treated like smites. Voila, the fighter/druid to the Paladin's fighter/cleric!
The problem is that the spells of the Ranger just don't compare to that of the Paladin in power, and the Ranger has no class features like smite, additional subclass spells, and lay on hands that balance out that power.
If I were to try to fix this issue, I would just say that Rangers should get spell slots back on a short rest like Warlocks, or at least get the Druid's short rest spell slot regeneration. Also, I would remove concentration from all the "strike" like spells specific to the Ranger.
Alternatively, Hunter's mark could be made something more like a limited resource class feature that doesn't compete with spells for concentration.
All good points, and I think most of these have been picked up within the UA updates . Problem is these aren't integrated into Dndbeyond yet, so DMs can easily overlook them.
Im not sure the UA updates really go very far in fixing the issues. They basically just make favored enemy better and make the Beast Master viable. But the core issue with Hunter spells being so hard to use isn't really addressed.
I meant these ones, which seem to be a step closer, not if I read it correctly, but seems to make some effort to provide cantrips.
https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-ClassFeatures.pdf
I consider this UA to be a much better fix to the Ranger class as a whole, I wouldn't use it for the Xanathar's subclasses though as they were intentionally made to be stronger than the other Ranger subclasses and have a larger lean on spellcasting. So it could have weird interactions with this, and likely be ahead of the intended power curve.
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes
Then class varient feature changes hunters mark to and ability and removes concentration. You can cast up to wisdom modifier without use of spell slot. That is a significant bonus.
It should be mentioned that with specific builds of Ranger it is beneficial to pick up different spells. Here are a few examples to consider (the ones I have are for Hunter Ranger).
If you picked up the feature Giant Killer that functions only against large or larger creatures, you should also consider picking up Ensnaring Strike, since that spell's blindspot (large or larger) gets covered by that feature.
Instead of that there are another few spells that synergize with a few features of Hunter as well. Since Hail of thorns provides an aoe with an attack, it becomes more beneficial if your features already focus on creatures within close proximity of each other, this is why there's some synergy with the Horde Breaker feature (horde breaker doubles the chances of hail of thorns functioning), but even greater synergy lies with an upcasted hail of thorns or lightning arrow (lightning arrow if they're a larger radius apart, hail of thorns for more damage) combined with the Volley feature the Hunter gets at 11th level, which does very good aoe, and this still could potentially synergize with horde breaker as well.
I also would like to say that there are a few Ranger concentration spells out there that stand up to hunter's mark in my eyes, that being Zephyr Strike (1 minute long disengage with extra damage, advantage, and a dash action on one turn. All of that just for one spell slot and a bonus action.), Fog Cloud (great for leaving enemies in the dark during ambushes, or if you're trying to flee and make a diversion), Stoneskin (so long as you can maintain concentration its essentially a barbarian rage that lasts one hour), and Healing Spirit (Overall great healing spell that has been nerfed, but still is the Ranger's version of healing word)
God I wish they would finally implement the class feature variants
Ranger spells are weak ???? Have you ever tested the Volley of arrows spell ?? Have you tested the Aimed arrow spell ?? And what about the Guidance cantrip ??
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
There are great utility spells for sure. The issue is that all of the combat based spells conflict because of concentration. And a ranger who isn’t getting their use out of Hunter’s Mark competes with Monk for weakest martial class.
"Volley of arrows" is not a spell. There's Conjure Volley, which is a 5th level spell, meaning rangers don't get it until level 17, so that's out the door for a lot of campaigns. And as an AOE, it relies on the ranger having actually put points into having a high WIS, so you're more likely looking at half damage. Not a bad spell, if that is the spell you meant, but again, not many campaigns go to level 17.
"Aimed arrow" is also not a spell, and I can't begin to guess which one you mean this time. If you meant Flame Arrows it's a third-level slot to do the same amount of damage as Hunter's Mark, and both take concentration (unless you're using the new UA option), but this takes an action to cast, meaning your attacks for one turn are limited or nonexistent. It also runs out after 12 arrows (which would be 4-6 rounds of combat, depending on if you have bonus action attacks) whereas Hunter's Mark's only limitation is keeping your concentration.
"Guidance" is an actual cantrip, but Rangers don't get cantrips as part of their normal build. It requires either the Class Features UA or taking a feat.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
The ranger can be built with melee or ranged in mind, so it’s spells are quite diverse. If you are in melee then most of the spells you would use in melee are not going to create too many issues with concentration (as they usually end once the spell takes effect) and if you are at range then it’s less likely you will be attacked regardless and can maintain concentration longer.
This leaves a lot of diversity with the Ranger builds, allowing you to configure it for either or both situations. To give kind of a layout:
You typically have to choose between: High Wisdom and good Spell DC, OR Res Con and/or Warcaster and good concentration
The Ranger Spell list can specifically support either of these options as you get non-Save spells along with non-Concentration spells.
Poor Spell DC but good Concentration? Stick with Hunters Mark, Guardian of Nature, Swift Quiver, Healing.
Good Spell DC but bad Concentration? Stay out of range, Zephyr Strike, Lightning Arrow.
So what good is this class if it can’t do gobs of melee damage, lay out 30 goblins with a fireball, or assassinate a single target with ease?
It really is built on combat versatility. The ranger class fills ALL of the gaps in your party makeup that you need and the reason Rangers seem underpowered is because they specifically won’t do anything that any other specialist class does, better than they do.
But do away with the white room for a moment and consider that the Ranger can Heal and Buff allies with Stoneskin, Hold its own defending a Battlement as an archer, curse their enemies with ensnaring or traps, do some AoE with Volleys, Safe and Fast travel via spell or skill, Conjure allies, Completely clog the entire terrain with Plants and spikes....
They are the Swiss Army knife of the party. You can’t really just look at it on the surface and put into numbers the ability to be able to just kind of... “do” anything. Combine this with some very potent subclasses and they become even more versatile. Everything about this entire class and subclass is about always having *something* at your disposal. Whether you like that or not, is your choice of course.
For example:
https://ddb.ac/characters/33059125/8Z2LFF
There is no inherent weakness in this build - it does decent damage (amazing damage if at range and favored enemy), has the highest DC for spells, is viable in almost any situation, has great concentration checks, can fight in melee or range...
And hasn’t even picked up a subclass yet.
People also forget that taking ASIs on a ranger also means you’re buffing Dex Wis and Con, which are already the primary saves so buffing these will automatically improve the build’s overall strength regardless.
I can only assume "Volley of arrows" is Conjure volley. Could you elaborate on the "Aimed Arrow" and how to get the guidance cantrip as ranger?
Whenever I'm looking at damage output numbers for a ranger compared to other martial classes (fighter, paladin, rogue, monk, barbarian) I always take into consideration how many targets are in play. Most of the time a see people calculating DPR with a single target, and of course that is where the fighter, paladin, barbarian, and rogue are going to shine. But if you take two or more targets into consideration the ranger (even the baseline ranger) can out perform them in total DPR. Consider a paladin at 10th level making their two attacks with a sword and a single 3rd level smite compared to a ranger with a longbow making two attacks and using a 3rd level hail of thorns. Now run the numbers again with two targets next to one another. (Remember that hail of thorns effects other creatures within 5 feet of the initial target, so if that initial target is large or bigger it has more squares around it that can effect additional creatures.) Now run the number again with the hunter subclass with horde breaker. Then run the numbers again with three targets being hit by the hail of thorns! Ranger damage is "swingy" and benefits from the situational setup of more than one target.
That is true, and it can be a fun option. But because of action economy, the game really rewards focusing down single targets over spreading out damage.
unless that spread out damage is multiplied over focused attacks, like fireball.
I would restate what you said as...
...because of action economy, the game really rewards downing targets over spreading out damage to targets that remain conscious.
A paladin would be (mathematically) less effective against 10 creatures than a ranger with one of its AoE attacks. The opposite would be true against a single large target, like a dragon. And if they are working together against a dragon and 10 kobolds, well...
Smites aside, just sort of long term consistent damage per round, rangers come out ahead of fighters and paladins similarly equipped at levels 1 through 10. Baseline classes: sword and shield fighter vs. sword and shield paladin vs. sword and shield ranger. From levels 11 on up I would argue they have more options and are more flexible than fighters, paladins, and barbarians. At levels 11+, rangers and rogues have the abilities to fill various other party roles besides pure combat.
True, that’s a good correction. Divided damage is good if it takes down multiple enemies.