Have always very much enjoyed the swashbuckler. To me, they will always be the best subclass for a melee based character. Arcane would for sure be my second, but I also normally multi class bard ( swords ) with my rouge class so mixes the best of both IMHO
Party composition and table rules matter a lot ... light on casters? Arcane Trickster helps. No Ranger? Scout can fill some of those essential skills. Mastermind with BA ranged-help is a pretty reliable source of ADV if you aren't using optional flanking rules. Swashbuckler is probably my favorite for skirmisher melee types... BA dash with built in disengage is very useful.
My rankings will depend on the level of the party but as an overall tier list:
S tier: Soulknife, Arcane Trickster, Swashbuckler
A tier: Scout, Phantom
B tier: Assassin, Thief
C tier: Mastermind, Inquisitive
Soulknife has the most quality abilities of all Rogue subclasses, if I had to rank them based on their individual features I'd put them first.
I don't really like Arcane Trickster subclass abilities, except for the mage hand bonuses. Of course what makes this subclass reach top tier is the spells.
I don't really like Swashbuckler subclass features either, except for the level 3 features of course which make this an amazing subclass.
Scout is a well-rounded subclass with good abilities on all levels of play.
Phantom is absolute garbage (probably D tier) before level 9. At level 9 the subclass becomes good and as the levels progress, they get even better. It's sad that in the first 8 levels Phantom is really weak and literally any other subclass will be better. If your Campaign is going to start at level 9 or above, Phantom is a solid choice, otherwise hard pass.
Assassin and Thief are solid choices, although a bit bland and boring. Thief is more versatile, although Assassin opens up some combos (for example with Gloomstalker Ranger) which can be very strong.
Mastermind and Inquisitive are the weakest subclasses due to them being very situational and depend a lot on the Campaign theme.
3? Just curious how you are getting to 3 with the soul knife. Are you depending on an attack of opportunity.
I personally rank soul knife kind of low. Like 3/4th its abilities are around the psychic blades which 1 are poorly designed imo and 2 you will probably stop using once you get a magic weapon. It is running more on cool factor than working. The skill boost is kind of neat but I so rarely fail a check level 7+ that it was used so rarely I forgot I had it the couple times I did fail a check.
1. Make them actual psychic blades you hold in your hand that stay there until dismissed with a returning function for the throws. You don't need a works with attacks of opportunity line, as its a weapon in your hand so you get that.
2. Allow people to transfer magical abilities form blade weapons to them, one magical weapon for main hand, one for the off hand.
3. Give a better base level to the teleport like 20 feet+die roll. It is so disappointing to roll a one. Allow people to at least rely on it to get onto the 2 story roof or whatever.
Personally, I think Thief is best. 30 foot climb speed? Pickpocketing as an action? Extra turn 1st round in combat? (Granted, that's the 17th level feature, but still.) Chance to not spend a charge on a magic item? Yeah, it's a little overpowered. Soulknife may not be the best mechanically, but it sure is cool-looking (no need to carry weapons ever again!). Assassin and Arcane Trickster are overrated. Everything else is pretty good, especially Swashbuckler and Scout.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Shoutout to the 2 Crew! - the cast of Not Another D&D Podcast
Roomba Knight, Architect of the Cataclysm, Foxy Lunar Archpriest. He/Him.
Ravenclaw, bookworm, Lego fanatic, mythology nerd, rock climber, pedantic about spelling, and proudly Canadian.
The rogue is such a mess when it comes to subclasses seeing as they only get a feature once a tier of play so most campaigns will only ever see one or two levels of features - 3rd and 9th. so realistically that's the only thing I rate them on because the high level features will rarely see the light of day either because of not playing at that level or players smartly multiclassing out of rogue.
1. Arcane Trickster - largely the best or at least the most interesting subclass. Full of utility. Spells act as features during the long stretches of boring levels that no other subclasses gets anything unique. Just a lot of fun choices to make. The rogue always should have had more choices. Like a "martial warlock" and this is the closest you get to that albeit with magic.
2. Swashbuckler - With just a few simple tweaks to base mechanics like the application of Sneak Attack, a free pseudo-Disengage freeing up bonus action, and initiative booster drastically change the feel of a rogue for the better.
3. Soulknife - Flawed in some aspects (poor weapon scaling/feat synergy, annoying randomness), but a suite of useful features that you will get a lot of use out of. Got a bit more consistent with 2024 update. A psi-die increase at 5 is small, but it's nice to fill in those dead levels of a rogue subclass.
4. Thief - a fun collection of level 3 features, but here's where we start losing a lot of ground as in 2014 and 2024 the level 9 is pretty bad. Fun later feature at level 13, but high level D&D is about as much fun as pulling teeth and has been for many decades
5. Scout - Straightforward features, but you'll get mileage out of everything. Baffling that the level 9 doesn't actually GIVE you a climb or swim speed. WotC has never particularly like the Rogue class. I have a feeling most DMs would just give it to you if you ask though since you're a rogue, you're already being outpaced by then.
6. Mastermind - Nothing good except the bonus action Help action, but I've sat back and abused that bonus help action ad nauseum both in and out of combat that. If or when they redo this class they need to ditch nearly everything but that, build around it and then it'd be a top tier class, but I'm sure they'll add a ton of useless Cunning Strikes and call it a day.
7. Assassin - the ever unreliable. Even in 2024 this is somehow both uninteresting and unrewarding at every tier. Feels like a subclass without features 1/2 the time
8. Phantom - Such an potentially interesting, but poorly structured class for 9 levels until you get a core feature that makes the class sort of work. But most campaigns are winding down by the time you get the thing that makes the class interesting. Why isn't Tokens of the Departed at level 3? Because we barely know how to design a rogue after 11+ years of 5E
9. Inquisitive - Fantastic flavor, but not enough DMs run exploration or combat correct so bonus search actions mean nothing even with the later advantages. In 2024 where the rogue has even more ways to apply Sneak Attack, the 3rd level features falls flat. And they have features that are made defunct by Reliable Talent which is a terrible design oversight.
10. Scion of the Three - Our first post 2024 PHB subclass and it's a mess. Any time a rogue subclass hands a simple cantrip that's not 2024 True Strike, but makes you pump Int anyway is a baaad time. Especially when that Int is tied to a feature to teleport you into melee.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm bored
Can ya'll just tell me how you would rank rouge subclasses from best to worst?
I swear i'm not southern btw
I wonder how plummeting hundreds of feet feels
Link to The Rouge Sub-Classes
I could probably reverse 3 and 4, and 8 and 9 since they are equal to me.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
If you have a DM willing to work with you then Assassin can be great...otherwise can be disappointing.
My favorites are Scout and Thief, and I hear everyone likes Arcane Trickster.
Have always very much enjoyed the swashbuckler. To me, they will always be the best subclass for a melee based character. Arcane would for sure be my second, but I also normally multi class bard ( swords ) with my rouge class so mixes the best of both IMHO
Party composition and table rules matter a lot ... light on casters? Arcane Trickster helps. No Ranger? Scout can fill some of those essential skills. Mastermind with BA ranged-help is a pretty reliable source of ADV if you aren't using optional flanking rules. Swashbuckler is probably my favorite for skirmisher melee types... BA dash with built in disengage is very useful.
My rankings will depend on the level of the party but as an overall tier list:
S tier: Soulknife, Arcane Trickster, Swashbuckler
A tier: Scout, Phantom
B tier: Assassin, Thief
C tier: Mastermind, Inquisitive
Soulknife has the most quality abilities of all Rogue subclasses, if I had to rank them based on their individual features I'd put them first.
I don't really like Arcane Trickster subclass abilities, except for the mage hand bonuses. Of course what makes this subclass reach top tier is the spells.
I don't really like Swashbuckler subclass features either, except for the level 3 features of course which make this an amazing subclass.
Scout is a well-rounded subclass with good abilities on all levels of play.
Phantom is absolute garbage (probably D tier) before level 9. At level 9 the subclass becomes good and as the levels progress, they get even better. It's sad that in the first 8 levels Phantom is really weak and literally any other subclass will be better. If your Campaign is going to start at level 9 or above, Phantom is a solid choice, otherwise hard pass.
Assassin and Thief are solid choices, although a bit bland and boring. Thief is more versatile, although Assassin opens up some combos (for example with Gloomstalker Ranger) which can be very strong.
Mastermind and Inquisitive are the weakest subclasses due to them being very situational and depend a lot on the Campaign theme.
Soul knife because you can make 3 different attacks and 60 foot ranged attacks
3? Just curious how you are getting to 3 with the soul knife. Are you depending on an attack of opportunity.
I personally rank soul knife kind of low. Like 3/4th its abilities are around the psychic blades which 1 are poorly designed imo and 2 you will probably stop using once you get a magic weapon. It is running more on cool factor than working. The skill boost is kind of neat but I so rarely fail a check level 7+ that it was used so rarely I forgot I had it the couple times I did fail a check.
1. Make them actual psychic blades you hold in your hand that stay there until dismissed with a returning function for the throws. You don't need a works with attacks of opportunity line, as its a weapon in your hand so you get that.
2. Allow people to transfer magical abilities form blade weapons to them, one magical weapon for main hand, one for the off hand.
3. Give a better base level to the teleport like 20 feet+die roll. It is so disappointing to roll a one. Allow people to at least rely on it to get onto the 2 story roof or whatever.
Personally, I think Thief is best. 30 foot climb speed? Pickpocketing as an action? Extra turn 1st round in combat? (Granted, that's the 17th level feature, but still.) Chance to not spend a charge on a magic item? Yeah, it's a little overpowered. Soulknife may not be the best mechanically, but it sure is cool-looking (no need to carry weapons ever again!). Assassin and Arcane Trickster are overrated. Everything else is pretty good, especially Swashbuckler and Scout.
Shoutout to the 2 Crew! - the cast of Not Another D&D Podcast
Roomba Knight, Architect of the Cataclysm, Foxy Lunar Archpriest. He/Him.
Ravenclaw, bookworm, Lego fanatic, mythology nerd, rock climber, pedantic about spelling, and proudly Canadian.
Extended sig: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?comment=438
I love K-pop Demon Hunters and the theatre. I will someday do a campaign, but I travel too much at the moment
The rogue is such a mess when it comes to subclasses seeing as they only get a feature once a tier of play so most campaigns will only ever see one or two levels of features - 3rd and 9th. so realistically that's the only thing I rate them on because the high level features will rarely see the light of day either because of not playing at that level or players smartly multiclassing out of rogue.
1. Arcane Trickster - largely the best or at least the most interesting subclass. Full of utility. Spells act as features during the long stretches of boring levels that no other subclasses gets anything unique. Just a lot of fun choices to make. The rogue always should have had more choices. Like a "martial warlock" and this is the closest you get to that albeit with magic.
2. Swashbuckler - With just a few simple tweaks to base mechanics like the application of Sneak Attack, a free pseudo-Disengage freeing up bonus action, and initiative booster drastically change the feel of a rogue for the better.
3. Soulknife - Flawed in some aspects (poor weapon scaling/feat synergy, annoying randomness), but a suite of useful features that you will get a lot of use out of. Got a bit more consistent with 2024 update. A psi-die increase at 5 is small, but it's nice to fill in those dead levels of a rogue subclass.
4. Thief - a fun collection of level 3 features, but here's where we start losing a lot of ground as in 2014 and 2024 the level 9 is pretty bad. Fun later feature at level 13, but high level D&D is about as much fun as pulling teeth and has been for many decades
5. Scout - Straightforward features, but you'll get mileage out of everything. Baffling that the level 9 doesn't actually GIVE you a climb or swim speed. WotC has never particularly like the Rogue class. I have a feeling most DMs would just give it to you if you ask though since you're a rogue, you're already being outpaced by then.
6. Mastermind - Nothing good except the bonus action Help action, but I've sat back and abused that bonus help action ad nauseum both in and out of combat that. If or when they redo this class they need to ditch nearly everything but that, build around it and then it'd be a top tier class, but I'm sure they'll add a ton of useless Cunning Strikes and call it a day.
7. Assassin - the ever unreliable. Even in 2024 this is somehow both uninteresting and unrewarding at every tier. Feels like a subclass without features 1/2 the time
8. Phantom - Such an potentially interesting, but poorly structured class for 9 levels until you get a core feature that makes the class sort of work. But most campaigns are winding down by the time you get the thing that makes the class interesting. Why isn't Tokens of the Departed at level 3? Because we barely know how to design a rogue after 11+ years of 5E
9. Inquisitive - Fantastic flavor, but not enough DMs run exploration or combat correct so bonus search actions mean nothing even with the later advantages. In 2024 where the rogue has even more ways to apply Sneak Attack, the 3rd level features falls flat. And they have features that are made defunct by Reliable Talent which is a terrible design oversight.
10. Scion of the Three - Our first post 2024 PHB subclass and it's a mess. Any time a rogue subclass hands a simple cantrip that's not 2024 True Strike, but makes you pump Int anyway is a baaad time. Especially when that Int is tied to a feature to teleport you into melee.