So I am playing a campaign currently where I have taken 3 levels in Rogue and become an Arcane Trickster as well. I have a feeling my DM will soon make us level up and I am debating whether I should take my first level in Artificer or take another level in Rogue.
The plan was always to be 13 levels in Rogue (AT) and 7 levels in Artificer (Armourer) but I don't know what level to take at each step so it could be good thematically and also powerful. If possible I would like a level guide almost for example; 4 levels in Rouge then 7 levels Artificer and rest Rogue.
The only reason my character is becoming part Artificer is because of story purposes to show that he is deviating from his master and doing something that's unique to him. So if you have any suggestions I would love to hear them.
Taking it at 4th is a reasonable place to go. This allows you to get more spells immediately and get to fifth level as 3/2. Your infusions at 5th can offset the lost ASI (+1 to att/dam with a +1 weapon). You will still be down a sneak attack die. If you go to artificer 5 and get extra attack you will make up some of that damage. If you have booming blade you might make up for some of that.
In general there is no good way with artificer to make up for slowing your sneak advancement from 1-5th level artificer. With enhanced weapon and defense you can tread water with the lost ASI (+1 to AC will make up for not bumping your Dex, and +1/+1 to the weapon does the same). So you will really need to make sure you are using your spells optimally. Once you have extra attack things become a bit different. Adding a 1d8+dex attack should net out around 7.5-9.5 damage which makes up for most of the sneak damage lost. You are going to have a couple of underperforming damage levels (4th-7th), but you might have a higher AC if you employ a shield. That said I think if you go armorer I would go straight to 5th. Any less and I think you extend your weakness longer. Extra attack will be the best bump you can give yourself from artificer. Then I would go to Rogue 5 to get uncanny dodge.
From there i am not sure. You could sell me that Web+magical ambush kicking in at 14th level is a good trick even then. An upcast hold person+magical ambush might also be good depending on campaign.
Overall I am not sure the Armorer is the best choice, but any other artificer would bog down your bonus action more. Maybe their might be some synergy on the Steel Defender to help you get sneak, but it also might just get killed a lot even with it dodging.
I really like this response and thank you for being so thorough.
I will say that I already have a 20 on my DEX score so there is no need bumping it. I was thinking if I wanted any other Artificer subclass and even checked if there were synergies with Arcane Trickster but I don't think there was any notable ones the most I got was the Artillery subclass but my core being a Rogue I wasn't a fan of that idea. I also considered the Steel Defender for possibilities to try and get advantage in many ways but I already have a lot of things that could easy give me advantage already and that's excluding decisions from the other PCs.
Any ASI I would get I wanted to bump my INT score being an INT based spell caster ofc and it is something that I can do given my INT is 15 so far.
Most of your points get unaffected by the response I'm giving but it could be important to consider. Otherwise thank you again!
I currently play an Armourer 5 Arcane Trickster 3 and can only add: Multi Attack is absolutely a major thing to get. Also since you got 15 Int I would add: The Tashas Feats Fey-Touched or Shadow Touched let you get Hex/Hunters Mark which can add a bit of Damage to your attacks, too. the first 2 Levels of Artificer will be kind of underwhelmind (especially Artificer 1 doesn't do much in the beginning), but the lightning launcher being a d6 / 2d6 weapon is great.
I personally would not duel class. It really limits the rogue, they need to gain as fast and as high as possible. They gain their core ASI/feet at level 8, 10 and 12. Do not skip that first ASI at level 4 just to add some other class.
And do not think that a 20 dex is great. I have pushed it to 26 before. You can go as high as 30.
I personally would not duel class. It really limits the rogue, they need to gain as fast and as high as possible. They gain their core ASI/feet at level 8, 10 and 12. Do not skip that first ASI at level 4 just to add some other class.
And do not think that a 20 dex is great. I have pushed it to 26 before. You can go as high as 30.
Not with ASIs you won't. 20 is as high as ASIs allow. So yeah I don't know why you are saying 20 DEX is not that great when barring high tier items its as good as it gets...
I am struggling to see how this fits into the discussion of how 20 DEX is not that great at level 3 when that is as good as it can possibly get at level 3.
Your arguments have nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
Actually its your comments that contribute little to the thread. You suggest to the OP that they should not multiclass so as not to miss ASIs, but then give zero suggestions as to what ASI/feat they could potentially take to synergize with their character. Then you conclude with the hilarious statement that 20 DEX is not that great when the character in question is a level 3 character and cannot possibly have a better DEX without high tier items/equipment that is not available at level 3.
I would go rogue 4, get that ASI/Feat and then take the first artificer level. If you are getting beat up bad, then next level take Rogue 5 for uncanny dodge and more Sneak Attack die. Are you going to use the infiltrator armor path? I think that has the best synergy for a Rogue, mainly because the lightening launcher is classified as a ranged weapon, which means it procs sneak attack.
Also, dont get to hung up on maxing damage. Yea, you may not do as much as possible, but your playstyle and fun factor are more important.
Yeah honestly I'm not trying to powerbuild too much. I'm now planning to go to level 4 rogue first and then I think I'll go heavily into artificer probably until I get extra attack.
And yes I'm gonna take the infiltrator armour since it also has advantage on stealth checks which is beneficial to me being a rogue ofc.
So I think for now I'll go to level 4 rogue then 5 levels in artificer then I'll see how I want to spilt the remaining 9 levels of Rogue and 2 of artificer
The great Silver Dragon Lord of the Sky, Second in Command of the Dragon Cult, Warlock of Cyno, and Cultist of Jeff. I have a lot of allegiances… Anyways HI! I’m Bananer, pronouns He/They, andddddd yeah. Bye, ig.
So I am playing a campaign currently where I have taken 3 levels in Rogue and become an Arcane Trickster as well. I have a feeling my DM will soon make us level up and I am debating whether I should take my first level in Artificer or take another level in Rogue.
The plan was always to be 13 levels in Rogue (AT) and 7 levels in Artificer (Armourer) but I don't know what level to take at each step so it could be good thematically and also powerful. If possible I would like a level guide almost for example; 4 levels in Rouge then 7 levels Artificer and rest Rogue.
The only reason my character is becoming part Artificer is because of story purposes to show that he is deviating from his master and doing something that's unique to him. So if you have any suggestions I would love to hear them.
Taking it at 4th is a reasonable place to go. This allows you to get more spells immediately and get to fifth level as 3/2. Your infusions at 5th can offset the lost ASI (+1 to att/dam with a +1 weapon). You will still be down a sneak attack die. If you go to artificer 5 and get extra attack you will make up some of that damage. If you have booming blade you might make up for some of that.
In general there is no good way with artificer to make up for slowing your sneak advancement from 1-5th level artificer. With enhanced weapon and defense you can tread water with the lost ASI (+1 to AC will make up for not bumping your Dex, and +1/+1 to the weapon does the same). So you will really need to make sure you are using your spells optimally. Once you have extra attack things become a bit different. Adding a 1d8+dex attack should net out around 7.5-9.5 damage which makes up for most of the sneak damage lost. You are going to have a couple of underperforming damage levels (4th-7th), but you might have a higher AC if you employ a shield. That said I think if you go armorer I would go straight to 5th. Any less and I think you extend your weakness longer. Extra attack will be the best bump you can give yourself from artificer. Then I would go to Rogue 5 to get uncanny dodge.
From there i am not sure. You could sell me that Web+magical ambush kicking in at 14th level is a good trick even then. An upcast hold person+magical ambush might also be good depending on campaign.
Overall I am not sure the Armorer is the best choice, but any other artificer would bog down your bonus action more. Maybe their might be some synergy on the Steel Defender to help you get sneak, but it also might just get killed a lot even with it dodging.
I really like this response and thank you for being so thorough.
I will say that I already have a 20 on my DEX score so there is no need bumping it. I was thinking if I wanted any other Artificer subclass and even checked if there were synergies with Arcane Trickster but I don't think there was any notable ones the most I got was the Artillery subclass but my core being a Rogue I wasn't a fan of that idea. I also considered the Steel Defender for possibilities to try and get advantage in many ways but I already have a lot of things that could easy give me advantage already and that's excluding decisions from the other PCs.
Any ASI I would get I wanted to bump my INT score being an INT based spell caster ofc and it is something that I can do given my INT is 15 so far.
Most of your points get unaffected by the response I'm giving but it could be important to consider. Otherwise thank you again!
I currently play an Armourer 5 Arcane Trickster 3 and can only add: Multi Attack is absolutely a major thing to get. Also since you got 15 Int I would add: The Tashas Feats Fey-Touched or Shadow Touched let you get Hex/Hunters Mark which can add a bit of Damage to your attacks, too. the first 2 Levels of Artificer will be kind of underwhelmind (especially Artificer 1 doesn't do much in the beginning), but the lightning launcher being a d6 / 2d6 weapon is great.
I personally would not duel class. It really limits the rogue, they need to gain as fast and as high as possible. They gain their core ASI/feet at level 8, 10 and 12. Do not skip that first ASI at level 4 just to add some other class.
And do not think that a 20 dex is great. I have pushed it to 26 before. You can go as high as 30.
Not with ASIs you won't. 20 is as high as ASIs allow. So yeah I don't know why you are saying 20 DEX is not that great when barring high tier items its as good as it gets...
Did i say it was by ASI's alone?
Did also say he should put it into Dex?
Instead of the ASI he could take a feet instead.
You seem to think 20 DEX at level 3 is not that great so who knows what you are talking about lol.
I have never started a character with less.
I am struggling to see how this fits into the discussion of how 20 DEX is not that great at level 3 when that is as good as it can possibly get at level 3.
Your arguments have nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
Actually its your comments that contribute little to the thread. You suggest to the OP that they should not multiclass so as not to miss ASIs, but then give zero suggestions as to what ASI/feat they could potentially take to synergize with their character. Then you conclude with the hilarious statement that 20 DEX is not that great when the character in question is a level 3 character and cannot possibly have a better DEX without high tier items/equipment that is not available at level 3.
All I did was call you out on it.
I would go rogue 4, get that ASI/Feat and then take the first artificer level. If you are getting beat up bad, then next level take Rogue 5 for uncanny dodge and more Sneak Attack die.
Are you going to use the infiltrator armor path? I think that has the best synergy for a Rogue, mainly because the lightening launcher is classified as a ranged weapon, which means it procs sneak attack.
Also, dont get to hung up on maxing damage. Yea, you may not do as much as possible, but your playstyle and fun factor are more important.
Yeah honestly I'm not trying to powerbuild too much. I'm now planning to go to level 4 rogue first and then I think I'll go heavily into artificer probably until I get extra attack.
And yes I'm gonna take the infiltrator armour since it also has advantage on stealth checks which is beneficial to me being a rogue ofc.
So I think for now I'll go to level 4 rogue then 5 levels in artificer then I'll see how I want to spilt the remaining 9 levels of Rogue and 2 of artificer
Feat….. not feet
The great Silver Dragon Lord of the Sky, Second in Command of the Dragon Cult, Warlock of Cyno, and Cultist of Jeff. I have a lot of allegiances… Anyways HI! I’m Bananer, pronouns He/They, andddddd yeah. Bye, ig.
PRAISE JEFF!
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