I’m new to this so I just wanted to get some third party feedback on a fun rogue build I was thinking about
Elf Criminal
start level 1 fighter for Con saves, grab defensive fighting style (I figured the AC for survivability and riposte was more important than an extra 3-6 dmg per hit on offhand attacks.
levels 2-20 in no particular order
but at fighter 3 take Battlemaster, grab riposte, parry, maneuvering attack
The general idea is that during the first round attacks you wield a light weapon and an offhand with nick, with surprise attacks you get advantage on all your first turn attacks, and with elven accuracy and action surge you’re rolling 12 dice to crit fish for a 20, and if you get to your last attack crit fishing and manage to miss you can precision attack for redemption and still snag a sneak attack. If they make their deathstrike save you have silvery barbs for a better shot.
EDIT: ready action attack with action surge as long as the trigger is something that will happen before the targets move you’ll get another attack and nick opportunity, giving 4 first round attacks, 2 sneak attacks with assassinate and deathstrike.
subsequent rounds you have riposte and sentinel to grab reaction attack sneak attacks. If you get hit and can’t grab a riposte you have defensive dualist to try to avoid the damage. And maneuvering attack just in case you need to put an ally in place for sneak attack
If you can grab a free feat from your DM or a scimitar of speed or somesuch you can roll 15 dice for your first round deathstrike crit fishing. Didn’t think dual wielder was worth it because rogue bonus actions are pretty competitive.
1. I would not take the Criminal Background. Too much overlap, this is a good background for Wizards, but Rogues are better with something else. I would take a custom background and get the Alert Feat.
2. I would start Rogue. Dex saves are better than Constitution saves and starting Rogue gives you one more proficiency
3. I love Fey Touched, but I am not seeing the draw here. You have no spell slots, your reaction is quite cluttered with Riposte and Sentinel and your cunning action can do a lot of what Misty Step can do. Something like Mage Slayer or Speedy is going to be a lot better IMO, especially with a scimitar of speed.
4. Defensive Duelist is good, but not great because you already have Uncanny Dodge. Again something else would be better.
5. Irresistable offense is ok, but for this build I think Combat Prowess is better for this build
6. Assassin 17 gets you death strike at 20th level, but Assasin 16, Battlemaster 4 gets you two Epic Boons and a 22 Dexterity. Boon of the Night Spirit and Boon of Combat Prowess are what I would get I think.
Thanks for the feedback, the whole build I sort of focused on trying to maximize the assassins subclass abilities and do a lot of sneak attacks.
I also forgot to mention that with action surge you can ready action and potentially take your reaction before your target moves and trigger surprising strikes/deathstrike twice.
1. Interesting, what background would you suggest instead? Buying alert at the expense of a +1 stat and a feats abilities seemed unintuitive to me, especially as assassins are so initiative dependent. I don’t quite get what you mean by overlap, the slight of hand and stealth skills just free up extra skills and make you a more effective skills monkey.
2. I thought con saves would be more valuable because once you get evasion you’re only taking half damage on most Dex saves anyway, and you’ll get a hefty bonus just from your dex modifier.
3. fey touched is really just for silvery barbs to force a reroll if they make their save. Between 2x deathstrike with action surge and silvery barbs hopefully one if not 2 out the 3 rolls will fail. Misty step and +1 to cha/wisdom were just bonuses. I also consider magic initiate, but thought the free level 2 spell and attribute outweighed the cantrips.
4. As squishy as rogues are I was thinking the ability to take no damage on an attack, as proficiency bonus to AC is a huge bump, would be a lot better. Especially as it also helps if other baddies decide to attack you that round. I was definitely trying to maximize the reaction sneak attacks no matter what but figured surviving in melee had to come before damage if you are fighting hard swinging monsters in melee.
5, 6. I had a lot of trouble picking an epic boon. I just went with irresistible offense just to stick with the theme of maximizing deathstrike damage and fishing for a 20. 2 epic boons is definitely a big pull, I figured with all the attacks and advantage getting the sneak attack off was a pretty safe bet, so I didn’t opt for prowess.
I do really like the idea of a BM4-6/Swashbuckler or Arcane Trickster 14-16
At least DnD beyond lets you pick from the epic boons as long as your character level is over 19. So if you used your last two levels to get level 16 of rogue and level 4 of fighter you should be able to get 2 epic boons. As long as this isn’t a mistake/error.
How does Ass16/BM4 get 2 epic boons? I thought they were a class feature at 19th level so multiclass 4 levels surely means no epics at all.
The Epic Boons are just feats with a 19th level prerequisite. If you are an assasin 15/Fighter 3, take an assasin level you get a feat, then take your fighter level last and get another feat. Since you are 19th and 20th levels respectively you can choose an Epic Boon feat for both of them.
Thanks for the feedback, the whole build I sort of focused on trying to maximize the assassins subclass abilities and do a lot of sneak attacks.
I also forgot to mention that with action surge you can ready action and potentially take your reaction before your target moves and trigger surprising strikes/deathstrike twice.
1. Interesting, what background would you suggest instead? Buying alert at the expense of a +1 stat and a feats abilities seemed unintuitive to me, especially as assassins are so initiative dependent. I don’t quite get what you mean by overlap, the slight of hand and stealth skills just free up extra skills and make you a more effective skills monkey.
2. I thought con saves would be more valuable because once you get evasion you’re only taking half damage on most Dex saves anyway, and you’ll get a hefty bonus just from your dex modifier.
3. fey touched is really just for silvery barbs to force a reroll if they make their save. Between 2x deathstrike with action surge and silvery barbs hopefully one if not 2 out the 3 rolls will fail. Misty step and +1 to cha/wisdom were just bonuses. I also consider magic initiate, but thought the free level 2 spell and attribute outweighed the cantrips.
4. As squishy as rogues are I was thinking the ability to take no damage on an attack, as proficiency bonus to AC is a huge bump, would be a lot better. Especially as it also helps if other baddies decide to attack you that round. I was definitely trying to maximize the reaction sneak attacks no matter what but figured surviving in melee had to come before damage if you are fighting hard swinging monsters in melee.
5, 6. I had a lot of trouble picking an epic boon. I just went with irresistible offense just to stick with the theme of maximizing deathstrike damage and fishing for a 20. 2 epic boons is definitely a big pull, I figured with all the attacks and advantage getting the sneak attack off was a pretty safe bet, so I didn’t opt for prowess.
I do really like the idea of a BM4-6/Swashbuckler or Arcane Trickster 14-16
I would do a custom Background and get the alert feat.
Unless you are a caster Dexterity is way better than Constitution in my opinion and by having proficiency in dex most of the time that is no damage on dex saves (plus whatever other effects). Being able to completely avoid damage and effects from Dex saves most of the time and taking half damage the remainder is a lot better than taking half damage most of the time and taking no damage rarely.
Silvery Barbs burns a reaction, and you have lots of other things that are going to use a reaction. You mention above using ready action with action surge to get two sneak attacks - that uses your reaction, meaning no Silvery Barbs, also Sentinel uses a reaction, Uncanny Dodge uses a Reaction, Reposte uses a reaction, and if you get it Defensive Duelist that uses a reaction too. You recharge 3 battle master maneuvers and your action surge with each short rest and all the other stuff is at will. So I don't think Silvery Barbs (or Defensive Duelist) is good on this build. If you were a single class Assassin things would be different.
IF you aren't considering the skill boost, I also think the Cantrips are better than Misty step once a day. Using your action on Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade is going to significantly increase your damage at high level as compared to using the attack action with nick.
When I was originally working through the build in my mind I just thought of maximizing dice and attacks, to try and get 20’s. In which case the first round could use the reaction for silvery barbs on a single deathstrike. (I also didn’t realize I wouldn’t be able to use nick 2x on the first turn with action surge, because I don’t read closely enough)
but it seems much better to use ready action and the reaction to make another first round attacks with nick to get 4 more dice and a second deathstrike rather than forcing disadvantage on a single deathstrike.
Thanks for helping me troubleshoot.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I’m new to this so I just wanted to get some third party feedback on a fun rogue build I was thinking about
Elf Criminal
start level 1 fighter for Con saves, grab defensive fighting style (I figured the AC for survivability and riposte was more important than an extra 3-6 dmg per hit on offhand attacks.
levels 2-20 in no particular order
but at fighter 3 take Battlemaster, grab riposte, parry, maneuvering attack
level 3 rogue grab assassin.
Feats: elven accuracy, defensive dualist, sentinel, fey touched (silvery barbs), epic boon irresistible offense
The general idea is that during the first round attacks you wield a light weapon and an offhand with nick, with surprise attacks you get advantage on all your first turn attacks, and with elven accuracy and action surge you’re rolling 12 dice to crit fish for a 20, and if you get to your last attack crit fishing and manage to miss you can precision attack for redemption and still snag a sneak attack. If they make their deathstrike save you have silvery barbs for a better shot.
EDIT: ready action attack with action surge as long as the trigger is something that will happen before the targets move you’ll get another attack and nick opportunity, giving 4 first round attacks, 2 sneak attacks with assassinate and deathstrike.
subsequent rounds you have riposte and sentinel to grab reaction attack sneak attacks. If you get hit and can’t grab a riposte you have defensive dualist to try to avoid the damage. And maneuvering attack just in case you need to put an ally in place for sneak attack
If you can grab a free feat from your DM or a scimitar of speed or somesuch you can roll 15 dice for your first round deathstrike crit fishing. Didn’t think dual wielder was worth it because rogue bonus actions are pretty competitive.
Ok here is some feedback:
1. I would not take the Criminal Background. Too much overlap, this is a good background for Wizards, but Rogues are better with something else. I would take a custom background and get the Alert Feat.
2. I would start Rogue. Dex saves are better than Constitution saves and starting Rogue gives you one more proficiency
3. I love Fey Touched, but I am not seeing the draw here. You have no spell slots, your reaction is quite cluttered with Riposte and Sentinel and your cunning action can do a lot of what Misty Step can do. Something like Mage Slayer or Speedy is going to be a lot better IMO, especially with a scimitar of speed.
4. Defensive Duelist is good, but not great because you already have Uncanny Dodge. Again something else would be better.
5. Irresistable offense is ok, but for this build I think Combat Prowess is better for this build
6. Assassin 17 gets you death strike at 20th level, but Assasin 16, Battlemaster 4 gets you two Epic Boons and a 22 Dexterity. Boon of the Night Spirit and Boon of Combat Prowess are what I would get I think.
How does Ass16/BM4 get 2 epic boons? I thought they were a class feature at 19th level so multiclass 4 levels surely means no epics at all.
Life's hard - get a helmet!
Thanks for the feedback, the whole build I sort of focused on trying to maximize the assassins subclass abilities and do a lot of sneak attacks.
I also forgot to mention that with action surge you can ready action and potentially take your reaction before your target moves and trigger surprising strikes/deathstrike twice.
1. Interesting, what background would you suggest instead? Buying alert at the expense of a +1 stat and a feats abilities seemed unintuitive to me, especially as assassins are so initiative dependent. I don’t quite get what you mean by overlap, the slight of hand and stealth skills just free up extra skills and make you a more effective skills monkey.
2. I thought con saves would be more valuable because once you get evasion you’re only taking half damage on most Dex saves anyway, and you’ll get a hefty bonus just from your dex modifier.
3. fey touched is really just for silvery barbs to force a reroll if they make their save. Between 2x deathstrike with action surge and silvery barbs hopefully one if not 2 out the 3 rolls will fail. Misty step and +1 to cha/wisdom were just bonuses. I also consider magic initiate, but thought the free level 2 spell and attribute outweighed the cantrips.
4. As squishy as rogues are I was thinking the ability to take no damage on an attack, as proficiency bonus to AC is a huge bump, would be a lot better. Especially as it also helps if other baddies decide to attack you that round. I was definitely trying to maximize the reaction sneak attacks no matter what but figured surviving in melee had to come before damage if you are fighting hard swinging monsters in melee.
5, 6. I had a lot of trouble picking an epic boon. I just went with irresistible offense just to stick with the theme of maximizing deathstrike damage and fishing for a 20. 2 epic boons is definitely a big pull, I figured with all the attacks and advantage getting the sneak attack off was a pretty safe bet, so I didn’t opt for prowess.
I do really like the idea of a BM4-6/Swashbuckler or Arcane Trickster 14-16
At least DnD beyond lets you pick from the epic boons as long as your character level is over 19. So if you used your last two levels to get level 16 of rogue and level 4 of fighter you should be able to get 2 epic boons. As long as this isn’t a mistake/error.
The Epic Boons are just feats with a 19th level prerequisite. If you are an assasin 15/Fighter 3, take an assasin level you get a feat, then take your fighter level last and get another feat. Since you are 19th and 20th levels respectively you can choose an Epic Boon feat for both of them.
I would do a custom Background and get the alert feat.
Unless you are a caster Dexterity is way better than Constitution in my opinion and by having proficiency in dex most of the time that is no damage on dex saves (plus whatever other effects). Being able to completely avoid damage and effects from Dex saves most of the time and taking half damage the remainder is a lot better than taking half damage most of the time and taking no damage rarely.
Silvery Barbs burns a reaction, and you have lots of other things that are going to use a reaction. You mention above using ready action with action surge to get two sneak attacks - that uses your reaction, meaning no Silvery Barbs, also Sentinel uses a reaction, Uncanny Dodge uses a Reaction, Reposte uses a reaction, and if you get it Defensive Duelist that uses a reaction too. You recharge 3 battle master maneuvers and your action surge with each short rest and all the other stuff is at will. So I don't think Silvery Barbs (or Defensive Duelist) is good on this build. If you were a single class Assassin things would be different.
IF you aren't considering the skill boost, I also think the Cantrips are better than Misty step once a day. Using your action on Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade is going to significantly increase your damage at high level as compared to using the attack action with nick.
Ahh, I understand now.
When I was originally working through the build in my mind I just thought of maximizing dice and attacks, to try and get 20’s. In which case the first round could use the reaction for silvery barbs on a single deathstrike. (I also didn’t realize I wouldn’t be able to use nick 2x on the first turn with action surge, because I don’t read closely enough)
but it seems much better to use ready action and the reaction to make another first round attacks with nick to get 4 more dice and a second deathstrike rather than forcing disadvantage on a single deathstrike.
Thanks for helping me troubleshoot.