So, this is my first time playing a Sorcerer in 5e, and I decided to go with quite possibly the weakest subclass for the flavor of it - huzzah!
The rest of the party is: Ranger, Druid, Rogue, Fighter, Blood Hunter
The campaign will only go from level 1 to level 12, and I'm having trouble deciding on what spells to take. I might try to convince my DM to allow for some origin spells in a similar vein to Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul, but I'm assuming it'll get vetoed as he mentioned early on that he doesn't allow homebrewed content typically.
I'm playing an Eladrin Wild Magic Sorcerer with the following stats:
STR 8 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 16
And the DM allowed us all to take a feat at level 1, so I took Metamagic Adept.
So, assuming I don't get any bonus spells known, here was my current plan.
Starting spells @ Level 1
Cantrips: Firebolt Prestidigitation Mage Hand Mending (RP reasons, I know it's not great typically)
Level 1: Chromatic Orb Mage Armor
Level
New Spell Learned
Spell Swap / Notes
Metamagic Available
1
See Above
Twinned Spell, Subtle Spell
2
Charm Person
3
Web (C)
Heightened Spell, Transmuted Spell
4
Shape Water, Tasha's Mind Whip
Charm Person -> Suggestion, CHA+2 ASI
5
Fireball
Chromatic Orb -> Haste
6
Counterspell
Web -> Shield
7
Greater Invisibility (C) or maybe Polymorph (C)?
8
Banishment (C)
CHA+2 ASI
9
Bigby's Hand (C)
10
Minor Illusion, Synaptic Static
Quickened Spell
11
Eyebite (C) or Sunbeam (C)
12
Disintegrate
Feat TBD
So my biggest concern is that it seems like past level 7 everything that's good seems to use Concentration. I know each spell is situationally useful still, and spell slots mean that I'll be glad to still have extra options, but maybe I'm wondering what I'm going to be doing besides casting cantrips and maybe Tasha's Mind Whip after using a single concentration spell? And maybe with 3 melee, Maximilian's Earthen Grasp would be better than Web? And maybe I'm gonna be too squishy without having Shield earlier?
I don't know the answer to any of these things, so I'm looking for any input at all on whether or not this looks like a decent plan. I appreciate any feedback at all!
I can't really provide much feedback about high level stuff as its taking us ages to get there but most things look ok.
The only real thing I can say is starting with chromatic orb is a really bad idea unless your DM has told you he waves materials because you need a diamond worth 50g to cast the spell which you might not be able to get for some time. Sleeps going to be a better choice most the time (or thunderwave/magic missile if you want damage)
Shape waters another funky one, if its for RP reasons I can see taking it otherwise it uuuh doesn't give you much of anything as a sorcerer with such a limited spell selection available. Something like invisibility or darkness or shatter might again serve you better in the long run
In my humble opinion, you indeed have too many concentration spells. Banishment, Polymorph, Eyebite, and Greater Invisibility all look good on paper but they all have huge drawbacks especially when you take all of them at once.
Greater Invisibility is a superb spell but your kit seems to be a lot about buffing/debuffing and what is annoying about it is that it has touch range. In combat, you probably cannot use it to save somebody as you would use Polymorph and it has a quite short duration to precast it. For exploring is much better suited normal Invisibility that you can upcast for more targets affected.
Haste does not have the range problem but it has one MAJOR drawback. If you use Twinned spell metamagic and cast it on two of your party members and then somehow lose your concentration that is round wasted for two people and you do not have warcaster feat to offset that despite having a constitution proficiency. It huge risk but my party consists of just 4 members not 6 like yours.
Honestly, I would drop Greater invisibility and Haste for Counter Spell and Mirror Images. I would probably not take 2 spells of the sixth level since you will be able to cast 6th level spell only once at the 12th level. Also, you do not have a single target burst spell (Disintegrate comes quite late) so Shatter or Scorching ray comes to mind. My gameplay (13th level Draconic sorcerer blaster) usually looks exactly like you described casting Greater invisibility for advantage on Firebolts or Firebolts and Quickened scorching Rays. But that works marvels for Draconics and you will have to think about what you will do while your concentration is running. Mirror Images will help you with not being hit and not losing concentration. And Counterspell is a must probably for every group. And you really need that one strong single target spell that lets you finish things before their round is up.
I can't really provide much feedback about high level stuff as its taking us ages to get there but most things look ok.
The only real thing I can say is starting with chromatic orb is a really bad idea unless your DM has told you he waves materials because you need a diamond worth 50g to cast the spell which you might not be able to get for some time. Sleeps going to be a better choice most the time (or thunderwave/magic missile if you want damage)
Shape waters another funky one, if its for RP reasons I can see taking it otherwise it uuuh doesn't give you much of anything as a sorcerer with such a limited spell selection available. Something like invisibility or darkness or shatter might again serve you better in the long run
I did indeed work it out such that I could trade off some early starting equipment to be able to begin with the 50gp diamond for Chromatic Orb. I'm not sure if I understand your point about Shape Water, as it's a Cantrip and is being learned at the level you get an extra Cantrip known, and I can't replace that with a leveled spell unless I'm missing something. If there's another cantrip you feel would be a better option than Shape Water, that's fine, but we're currently in Icewind Dale for the campaign so I'm planning on having plenty of uses for Shape Water :) Were you thining of some other similarly named leveled spell perhaps?
In my humble opinion, you indeed have too many concentration spells. Banishment, Polymorph, Eyebite, and Greater Invisibility all look good on paper but they all have huge drawbacks especially when you take all of them at once.
Greater Invisibility is a superb spell but your kit seems to be a lot about buffing/debuffing and what is annoying about it is that it has touch range. In combat, you probably cannot use it to save somebody as you would use Polymorph and it has a quite short duration to precast it. For exploring is much better suited normal Invisibility that you can upcast for more targets affected. ...
I appreciate the feedback! Yeah, I was also wondering how often I'd be able to pull off a Twinned Greater Invis with the touch range. The ideal targets would probably be myself and the Rogue, but there's no guarantee that it'll be an option to start with in every fight, especially depending on initiative order.
Honestly, twin spelling Haste in this party (it can go well on the Fighter, Blood Hunter, Rogue AND Ranger I think) is an option I don't think I'm ready to give up though, and from what I understand with a natural CON proficiency it's generally advised to cap out CHA rather than taking Warcaster, but maybe that doesn't hold true if I'm so reliant on Concentration spells in general?
Also, I already have Counterspell being taken at 6th level, though I could swap the order of some stuff around a bit if it seems like we're running into a lot of enemy casters in the campaign and take it at 5th level instead. Mirror Image is definitely something I've been considering, as more defensive options to avoid interruption seem like a great idea. Maybe I'll pick that one over Greater Invis.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's really any single target spell that'll work well for a Wild Magic Sorc and be worth it over extra battlefield control. Scorching Ray without having advantage is mathematically not much better than Magic Missile. Maybe I should have Magic Missile somewhere in the build as a (almost) guaranteed single target nuke that can upcast decently well? I'll have to think about it!
I would swap out Chromatic Orb or Mage Armor for the best character level 1 spell in the game: Sleep. Seriously Sleep is godtier at level 1, any caster who can take it should take it. Its power falls off pretty fast but should still be useable at character lvl 2, then you swap it for something else at character lvl 3.
My Eladrin Aberrant Mind Sorcerer is in Icewind Dale right now. I can't speak to Wild Magic as I've never played one. Every sorcerer has their favorite spells and has gotten a lot of milage out of the ones they recommend. So much depends on the type of campaign and what the DM does. Most people don't think Create Bonfire is a good cantrip. I've used it a lot in our current campaign because we end up with a lot of choke points.
Sleep is a good spell, especially at lower levels but you can twin Chromatic Orb so I'd say it's up to you.
Take Counterspell as soon as you can. You will need it. Plus, being able to subtle cast Counterspell means you can't be counter spelled.
One thing I would say is take Quicken before Heighten. Heighten at a low level uses up too many of your sorcery points to make it worth while.
There are pros and cons to taking shield over mage armor or vice versa. I think it depends on the campaign. Mage armor is always good to start with but at certain point the baddies hit really hard and mage armor doesn't do a lot for you. Then you need shield. It's a reaction so you only cast it if you need it rather than Mage Armor which uses up a spell slot every day.
I've been getting a lot of use out of Haste with a ranger and barbarian in the party. So far I haven't lost concentration. Tasha's Mind Whip is a good spell. Don't discount it. The baddies have a hard time saving against it.
Yes the higher you get, the more concentration spells there are but remember, you can always upcast Fireball or Lightning Bolt (or both if you decide to take them). Blight is a nice 4th level spell that does not use concentration and does a great deal of damage.
I don't see escape spells on your list. You have Fey Step once per short rest but at some point you are probably going to want Thunderstep or Dimension Door.
I love Synaptic Static and have used it a lot. I don't love Disintegrate because I don't love save or suck spells. People say that twinning it is amazing and it probably is if your targets don't make their save. If they do? You've used up a boatload of sorcery points and have nothing to show for it since it doesn't do half damage on a failed save.
I personally love Greater Invisibility. I don't bother with Twinning it because the tax (four sorcery points) is too high. Yes, you can cast it on the rogue but the rogue should be able to stealth and hide really well by the time it comes online. I Quicken Greater Invisibility and then cast a cantrip. Afterwards I just cast spells while being invisible.
My bad about that, what I get for replying super late at night I was thinking of control water for some reason, brain saw level 4 and water, while also thinking it was lvl 2 for some reason. XD
So, this is my first time playing a Sorcerer in 5e, and I decided to go with quite possibly the weakest subclass for the flavor of it - huzzah!
The rest of the party is: Ranger, Druid, Rogue, Fighter, Blood Hunter
The campaign will only go from level 1 to level 12, and I'm having trouble deciding on what spells to take. I might try to convince my DM to allow for some origin spells in a similar vein to Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul, but I'm assuming it'll get vetoed as he mentioned early on that he doesn't allow homebrewed content typically.
I'm playing an Eladrin Wild Magic Sorcerer with the following stats:
STR 8
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 16
And the DM allowed us all to take a feat at level 1, so I took Metamagic Adept.
So, assuming I don't get any bonus spells known, here was my current plan.
Starting spells @ Level 1
Cantrips:
Firebolt
Prestidigitation
Mage Hand
Mending (RP reasons, I know it's not great typically)
Level 1:
Chromatic Orb
Mage Armor
So my biggest concern is that it seems like past level 7 everything that's good seems to use Concentration. I know each spell is situationally useful still, and spell slots mean that I'll be glad to still have extra options, but maybe I'm wondering what I'm going to be doing besides casting cantrips and maybe Tasha's Mind Whip after using a single concentration spell? And maybe with 3 melee, Maximilian's Earthen Grasp would be better than Web? And maybe I'm gonna be too squishy without having Shield earlier?
I don't know the answer to any of these things, so I'm looking for any input at all on whether or not this looks like a decent plan. I appreciate any feedback at all!
I can't really provide much feedback about high level stuff as its taking us ages to get there but most things look ok.
The only real thing I can say is starting with chromatic orb is a really bad idea unless your DM has told you he waves materials because you need a diamond worth 50g to cast the spell which you might not be able to get for some time. Sleeps going to be a better choice most the time (or thunderwave/magic missile if you want damage)
Shape waters another funky one, if its for RP reasons I can see taking it otherwise it uuuh doesn't give you much of anything as a sorcerer with such a limited spell selection available. Something like invisibility or darkness or shatter might again serve you better in the long run
In my humble opinion, you indeed have too many concentration spells. Banishment, Polymorph, Eyebite, and Greater Invisibility all look good on paper but they all have huge drawbacks especially when you take all of them at once.
Greater Invisibility is a superb spell but your kit seems to be a lot about buffing/debuffing and what is annoying about it is that it has touch range. In combat, you probably cannot use it to save somebody as you would use Polymorph and it has a quite short duration to precast it. For exploring is much better suited normal Invisibility that you can upcast for more targets affected.
Haste does not have the range problem but it has one MAJOR drawback. If you use Twinned spell metamagic and cast it on two of your party members and then somehow lose your concentration that is round wasted for two people and you do not have warcaster feat to offset that despite having a constitution proficiency. It huge risk but my party consists of just 4 members not 6 like yours.
Honestly, I would drop Greater invisibility and Haste for Counter Spell and Mirror Images. I would probably not take 2 spells of the sixth level since you will be able to cast 6th level spell only once at the 12th level. Also, you do not have a single target burst spell (Disintegrate comes quite late) so Shatter or Scorching ray comes to mind. My gameplay (13th level Draconic sorcerer blaster) usually looks exactly like you described casting Greater invisibility for advantage on Firebolts or Firebolts and Quickened scorching Rays. But that works marvels for Draconics and you will have to think about what you will do while your concentration is running. Mirror Images will help you with not being hit and not losing concentration. And Counterspell is a must probably for every group. And you really need that one strong single target spell that lets you finish things before their round is up.
My two cents. :)
I did indeed work it out such that I could trade off some early starting equipment to be able to begin with the 50gp diamond for Chromatic Orb. I'm not sure if I understand your point about Shape Water, as it's a Cantrip and is being learned at the level you get an extra Cantrip known, and I can't replace that with a leveled spell unless I'm missing something. If there's another cantrip you feel would be a better option than Shape Water, that's fine, but we're currently in Icewind Dale for the campaign so I'm planning on having plenty of uses for Shape Water :) Were you thining of some other similarly named leveled spell perhaps?
I appreciate the feedback! Yeah, I was also wondering how often I'd be able to pull off a Twinned Greater Invis with the touch range. The ideal targets would probably be myself and the Rogue, but there's no guarantee that it'll be an option to start with in every fight, especially depending on initiative order.
Honestly, twin spelling Haste in this party (it can go well on the Fighter, Blood Hunter, Rogue AND Ranger I think) is an option I don't think I'm ready to give up though, and from what I understand with a natural CON proficiency it's generally advised to cap out CHA rather than taking Warcaster, but maybe that doesn't hold true if I'm so reliant on Concentration spells in general?
Also, I already have Counterspell being taken at 6th level, though I could swap the order of some stuff around a bit if it seems like we're running into a lot of enemy casters in the campaign and take it at 5th level instead. Mirror Image is definitely something I've been considering, as more defensive options to avoid interruption seem like a great idea. Maybe I'll pick that one over Greater Invis.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's really any single target spell that'll work well for a Wild Magic Sorc and be worth it over extra battlefield control. Scorching Ray without having advantage is mathematically not much better than Magic Missile. Maybe I should have Magic Missile somewhere in the build as a (almost) guaranteed single target nuke that can upcast decently well? I'll have to think about it!
I would swap out Chromatic Orb or Mage Armor for the best character level 1 spell in the game: Sleep. Seriously Sleep is godtier at level 1, any caster who can take it should take it. Its power falls off pretty fast but should still be useable at character lvl 2, then you swap it for something else at character lvl 3.
My Eladrin Aberrant Mind Sorcerer is in Icewind Dale right now. I can't speak to Wild Magic as I've never played one. Every sorcerer has their favorite spells and has gotten a lot of milage out of the ones they recommend. So much depends on the type of campaign and what the DM does. Most people don't think Create Bonfire is a good cantrip. I've used it a lot in our current campaign because we end up with a lot of choke points.
Sleep is a good spell, especially at lower levels but you can twin Chromatic Orb so I'd say it's up to you.
Take Counterspell as soon as you can. You will need it. Plus, being able to subtle cast Counterspell means you can't be counter spelled.
One thing I would say is take Quicken before Heighten. Heighten at a low level uses up too many of your sorcery points to make it worth while.
There are pros and cons to taking shield over mage armor or vice versa. I think it depends on the campaign. Mage armor is always good to start with but at certain point the baddies hit really hard and mage armor doesn't do a lot for you. Then you need shield. It's a reaction so you only cast it if you need it rather than Mage Armor which uses up a spell slot every day.
I've been getting a lot of use out of Haste with a ranger and barbarian in the party. So far I haven't lost concentration. Tasha's Mind Whip is a good spell. Don't discount it. The baddies have a hard time saving against it.
Yes the higher you get, the more concentration spells there are but remember, you can always upcast Fireball or Lightning Bolt (or both if you decide to take them). Blight is a nice 4th level spell that does not use concentration and does a great deal of damage.
I don't see escape spells on your list. You have Fey Step once per short rest but at some point you are probably going to want Thunderstep or Dimension Door.
I love Synaptic Static and have used it a lot. I don't love Disintegrate because I don't love save or suck spells. People say that twinning it is amazing and it probably is if your targets don't make their save. If they do? You've used up a boatload of sorcery points and have nothing to show for it since it doesn't do half damage on a failed save.
I personally love Greater Invisibility. I don't bother with Twinning it because the tax (four sorcery points) is too high. Yes, you can cast it on the rogue but the rogue should be able to stealth and hide really well by the time it comes online. I Quicken Greater Invisibility and then cast a cantrip. Afterwards I just cast spells while being invisible.
Sunbeam is great.
My bad about that, what I get for replying super late at night I was thinking of control water for some reason, brain saw level 4 and water, while also thinking it was lvl 2 for some reason. XD