What do you think of this subclass? It's the only sorc class I'm interested in right now. Any tips for building and running one. Going with autognome and the Wildspacer background. Definitely have to take the mend cantrip (it's great for autognomes) and will guiding bolt. I'll be good aligned so will get cure wounds for free.
I've been running an autognome circle of stars druid but need a character for a different group.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see the point of the Divine Soul Sorcerer. Granted - in full disclosure - I am quite partial to playing clerics, but the Divine Soul just seems like a Diet Cleric. So why not just play a cleric??? Let's weight the pros and cons.
As a cleric you'd get a bigger Hit Die, a d8 as opposed to the sorcerer's d6. As a cleric you'd get to wear at least medium armor and a shield, possibly even heavy armor, as opposed to the sorcerer's NO armor. As a cleric you have access to ALL the spells in your spell list and can choose which to prepare on any given day, as opposed to sorcerers who learn a very limited number of spells that they're stuck with. And clerics get their subclass abilities at levels 1, 2, 6, 8, and 17, as opposed to sorcerers who only get 1, 6, 14, and 18. Plus clerics get Channel Divinity, and Divine Intervention, and a damage boost at level 8, and ritual spellcasting, and Domain spells that are always prepared. And to balance off against ALL of that, sorcerers have what? Metamagic? Come on!
Just play a cleric. If you really want some arcane magic, play Arcana Domain, or Knowledge Domain. If you like the idea of casting Cure Wounds, play Life Domain and cure a bit extra. Or... if you really want to have some fun... play a Light Cleric! The bad guys think it's all fun and games until the cleric starts whipping Fireballs around the battlefield!
Clerics rule. Clerics are awesome. But again - I am biased in that regard, so.... just my 2 c.p.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see the point of the Divine Soul Sorcerer. Granted - in full disclosure - I am quite partial to playing clerics, but the Divine Soul just seems like a Diet Cleric. So why not just play a cleric??? Let's weight the pros and cons.
As a cleric you'd get a bigger Hit Die, a d8 as opposed to the sorcerer's d6. As a cleric you'd get to wear at least medium armor and a shield, possibly even heavy armor, as opposed to the sorcerer's NO armor. As a cleric you have access to ALL the spells in your spell list and can choose which to prepare on any given day, as opposed to sorcerers who learn a very limited number of spells that they're stuck with. And clerics get their subclass abilities at levels 1, 2, 6, 8, and 17, as opposed to sorcerers who only get 1, 6, 14, and 18. Plus clerics get Channel Divinity, and Divine Intervention, and a damage boost at level 8, and ritual spellcasting, and Domain spells that are always prepared. And to balance off against ALL of that, sorcerers have what? Metamagic? Come on!
Just play a cleric. If you really want some arcane magic, play Arcana Domain, or Knowledge Domain. If you like the idea of casting Cure Wounds, play Life Domain and cure a bit extra. Or... if you really want to have some fun... play a Light Cleric! The bad guys think it's all fun and games until the cleric starts whipping Fireballs around the battlefield!
Clerics rule. Clerics are awesome. But again - I am biased in that regard, so.... just my 2 c.p.
I'm trying to branch out past druid and cleric since I like being classes with decent healing. I'm in a few games (some are one shots). I already run a circle of stars druid in a regular game (online spelljammer) and have a peace cleric rolled up for another. I did try paladin but didn't like it much (did not have enough spell slots for both divine smile and healing and lay on hands wasn't enough) and am not ready to try it as a multiclass build. There is always celestial warlock but doesn't appeal to me. Neither does way of mercy monk.
I've thought of those issues. Armor isn't an issue with an autognome. Not worried about weapons so much since not planning on being melee. As far as HD, with the wildspacer background, I get +2 HP per level (I'm still worried about the HP but I would be with a cleric too...I'll probably either take silvery barbs or shield). I like the idea of twinning guiding bolt or healing and maybe empowered to start (maybe quickened, heightened or extended at later levels; distant for spelljammer ship to ship attacks). 4th level I'm thinking Fae touched for misty step and gift of alacrity if the DM allows it (the online SJ DM most likely wouldn't since he doesn't use Critical role stuff but that's not where this character is going).
So, back to the post: What do people who have run Divine soul sorcerers think of it? Any tips?
Don't forget that Empowered Healing can affect not only your own healing, but allies' as well. The Divine Soul sorc in one of my campaigns has used this to help me (Druid) in critical moments. Favored by the Gods is great for critical moments as well. Twinning spells is tremendous too; our sorc has pulled off some amazing moves with that. Don't underestimate metamagic!
Div Sorc is amazing and offers a lot that makes it much different from playing a Cleric. Sorcerer is probably the most underrated class and getting the cleric spell list just makes it that much better.
Con save prof: This is huge, not just for concentration but in general con saves tend to happen all the time. Shield and absorb elements: The amount of damage this avoids is crazy. Other highlights from sorc spell list: sleep, slivery barbs, Misty step, fireball, counterspell, polymorph, Ddoor, animate objects, etc. Most of the best wizard spells are also sorc spells.
Metamagic: People seem to underestimate how good this is for action economy. Twin spelling guiding bolt or healing words for just 1 sorc point is incredibly good. And being able to do things like empowering a fireball, or any aoe has a massive impact.
Font: being able to convert spell slots is also extremely effective. Upcasting tends to be incredibly inefficient most of the time, so twinning, empowering or just converting point to slots to cast tends to be a much better option.
Magical guidance: Choose to reroll, after you fail, if that doesn't work use your favored by the gods.
I'm not saying clerics aren't great, but saying there is no reason to play divine soul instead of a cleric is just wrong.
IF its built properly its VERY powerful. RP and flavor is strong too. Like any of the sorcerer subclasses you just have to going in knowing exactly what you want and selecting the best spells and metamagics to achieve that end. No sorcerer build, except maybe the aberrant mind is a beginner or even intermediate build, you have to have a lot of meta knowledge to build on right.
Divine Soul can be very OP if built right. Being able to twin/quicken a bunch of cleric spells as well as fall back on the sorcs own spell list results in a massive power spike for your entire party. You need to be careful with your spell picks, but if you do it right, DS is possibly the most OP of the sorc subclasses.
Divine Soul can be very OP if built right. Being able to twin/quicken a bunch of cleric spells as well as fall back on the sorcs own spell list results in a massive power spike for your entire party. You need to be careful with your spell picks, but if you do it right, DS is possibly the most OP of the sorc subclasses.
Thanks. Starting at Lev 1 (Custom Loxodon for high CHA/CON instead of CON/WIS) with mage hand (I'm open to another utility option), guidance, firebolt, word of radiance (for in case enemies get close since no friendly fire), cure wounds (Good aligned), shield, and either guiding bolt or Chaos bolt. I like the way GB gives advantage on next attack, but CB has a chance of coming up with another bolt...and a chance to select the damage type.
What are your favorite spells for the subclass? Anything I should work into the spell list or build?
Firstly, I would insist you pick up Mind Sliver as a cantrip if you have access to it. Attacking INT to put a penalty on foes saves is very useful. I would suggest dropping WoR for it as there's better options to trying to fight in melee if you're a caster; namely GTFOing there.
From the cleric list:
1st level: One of Cure Wounds/Healing Word for SURE, but you already have this.
Command: Can be extremely powerful. Might want to get a dictionary or look up some good commands online. Autodefenestrate is a classic but your GM may not allow it and it would require a window even if they did.
Shield of Faith: A solid choice and you can twin it to buff two people.
2nd level: Silence: This one requires that you pick up subtle spell to really capitalize on it; but if you do... a lot of casters spells require vocal components. So casting silence on them is a non-negatable shut-down of that entire area. If you get subtle you can cast it while you're in the area as well without problems.
3rd: Dispel Magic: Kind of a no-duh here.
Mass Healing Word: Also a 'no-duh' here.
From the Sorc list:
1st: Absorb Elements: Invaluable as the sheer volume of times you'll need to deal with enemy casters will reveal.
2nd: Misty Step: A godsend ability. This is why I advise against your suggestion of WoR. Because you can just misty-step out of combat then follow up with a firebolt. If you're willing to expend the sorc points you can also disengage, run, then cast, say, a fireball that's quickened. Even if you have NO options it's probably better to get out of melee range than to try and fight it out unless you have no allies nearby.
Tasha's Mind Whip: This spell is OP as heck. The damage isn't that amazing; but it's secondary effect... Forcing an enemy to choose between their action, bonus action, and movement is basically the deathknell for any solo foe until you start hitting people with legendaries. Even then it is a massive addle (though you'll need to deal with legendary resistances first). Combining this with mind sliver to make it extra hard for a foe to resist means you basically never need to fear a single, non-legendary, foe ever again.
Darkness: You need to pick up Devils Sight from the Warlock to truely make the most of this; but even without, you basically render an entire area null. You take it and you'll find a bunch of uses for it. Fog Cloud also works but it has counters that Darkness does not.
3rd: Fireball/Lightning Bolt: Which one you pick depends on how much your GM likes pitting fire-resistant foes against you and how concerned you are about friendly fire. You can pick up a feat to negate the resistance but nothing will stop idiot teammates. Lightning Bolt if you're concerned about FF, Fireball if you're not.
Counterspell: Another staple. Always assume an enemy caster has this and always keep a counterspell in reserve for when the foes bust out something powerful. It's just invaluable.
Haste: Another godsend; especially since you can twin it. While giving it to yourself doesn't help too much, double movement, +2 AC, advantage on dex saves, and an extra action is amazing for your melee fighters. Even if you're not twinning it, just getting this on one of them will OMGWTFOP them. The penalty for if the spell ends is painful though (basically losing a turn) so you want to avoid being in situations where that could happen all together.
Slow: The exact opposite of Haste, but on enemies. It's really crippling and getting it to stick can basically end an entire group; but it's not a potent as haste since the enemies don't use bonus actions. Still, half movement, AC reduction, dex disadvantage, and such...
That should be a good, rounded, selection for you to start with. There's a bunch of spells that are certainly potent and useful but either I have personal doubts about (shield. I'd rather not be targeted in the first place), are useful but not AS useful (Dragon's Breath is actually pretty potent, but not in so much as haste), or might be a bit more situational/not conform to my own personal playstyle so I can't honestly vouche for them.
Keep an eye on your sorc points and don't be afraid to sac spell-slots to regain them. Something like a twinned haste or quickened fireball can be a gamechanger when an unused spell-slot just sits there.
Edit: Personal thoughts of the metamagic as well.
Twinned: Invaluable; especially when it comes to buffing allies/debuffing foes. A lot of spells that were merely 'okay' on one target take a serious jump up when twinned. Even on a basic level, being able to twin a firebolt or something makes a solid damage output. Be careful though as the cost depends on spell level.
Quickened: Being able to push your spell-cast off onto your bonus action is amazing since it means you can now use your normal action for other stuff. Like disengaging from a foe in melee range. So 'disengage, move, fireball' is a perfectly realistic thing to do with quickened. While you can't cast two slotted spells in the same turn, you can cast a slotted spell AND a cantrip as well. Which means you can combo Mind Sliver with a spell that targets a save. Or even just put some extra damage or something on a foe you REALLY want dead!
Distant: The problem with distant is that most spells already have enough range as-is. However, you can also turn spells that have a range of 'touch' into having a 30 foot range. While it seems weird to me that a spell with a range of 5 would be doubled to 10, but a spell with a range of touch would hit 30, that's irrelevant to the value of the metamagic. I would say it has potential but I've never experimented with it.
Careful: Really kinda meh. You can only give up to 5 (unless you find a way to break the CHA cap) creatures an auto-success against an AoE spell. For something like fireball that's just half-damage. Sure, there's some stuff with no downsides if you succeed; but you can also just aim better. The number of situations where careful will be useful is minor.
Empowered: Empowered isn't bad, per-say. Taking a bunch of 1's and 2's and turning them into higher numbers is useful. But it not only has a soft cap of 5 (I suppose more if you could get your CHA bonus above 20), but it doesn't actually do anything to modify the spell. Just gives you more damage. Plus there's no guarentee that the new rolls will be better. Doesn't conflict with other MM's at least.
Extend: The problem is that it only works on spells that last a minute or longer. Most fights don't even last a minute in the first place. So the number of spells where this could even be useful is limited to begin with. While I'm certain someone out there found a way to break it and make it OP, in most cases, it's just a waste.
Heightened: 3 sorc points to make only one target get disadvantage on a save is really costly for a low pay-out. On the one hand there's some really potent spells that are either single-target anyways or require upcasting to hit multiple foes. On the other hand there's a bunch of AoE spells that would be really useful if it didn't have this limit; but since it does... Not to mention that disadvantage does not equate to 'will fail the save'. They're more LIKELY to do so, but it's not a guarentee. This is a 'later' metamagic to be taken if/when you've already gotten better options.
Subtle: This is deceptively useful. Removing the somatic and verbal components means silence doesn't affect you and, at least in theory, you can cast while bound and gagged. Or without letting other people know you're casting. As a result, it ends up finding it's way into being used a lot more than you'd think. At the same time, if you don't pick it up, it's not the end of the world.
Seeking: Really useful. Don't get me wrong. Being able to turn a miss into a hit is invaluable. Doesn't even conflict with other meta-magic. My only hang-up is that any sorc worth their salt will be investing heavily into CHA so any spell they cast will likely have a solid to-hit bonus already. Not worthless, but you also have better options.
Transmuted: This is either extremely useful, or extremely useless. If you are fighting a lot of foes with resistances/immunities (like elementals) being able to change the damage around is invaluable. Likewise if you have a feat like Elemental Adept or some magic item that depends on the damage element or something, this can become invaluable. As a result, if you use this feat or not is situational.
Firstly, I would insist you pick up Mind Sliver as a cantrip if you have access to it. Attacking INT to put a penalty on foes saves is very useful. I would suggest dropping WoR for it as there's better options to trying to fight in melee if you're a caster; namely GTFOing there.
From the cleric list:
1st level: One of Cure Wounds/Healing Word for SURE, but you already have this.
Command: Can be extremely powerful. Might want to get a dictionary or look up some good commands online. Autodefenestrate is a classic but your GM may not allow it and it would require a window even if they did.
Shield of Faith: A solid choice and you can twin it to buff two people.
2nd level: Silence: This one requires that you pick up subtle spell to really capitalize on it; but if you do... a lot of casters spells require vocal components. So casting silence on them is a non-negatable shut-down of that entire area. If you get subtle you can cast it while you're in the area as well without problems.
3rd: Dispel Magic: Kind of a no-duh here.
Mass Healing Word: Also a 'no-duh' here.
From the Sorc list:
1st: Absorb Elements: Invaluable as the sheer volume of times you'll need to deal with enemy casters will reveal.
2nd: Misty Step: A godsend ability. This is why I advise against your suggestion of WoR. Because you can just misty-step out of combat then follow up with a firebolt. If you're willing to expend the sorc points you can also disengage, run, then cast, say, a fireball that's quickened. Even if you have NO options it's probably better to get out of melee range than to try and fight it out unless you have no allies nearby.
Tasha's Mind Whip: This spell is OP as heck. The damage isn't that amazing; but it's secondary effect... Forcing an enemy to choose between their action, bonus action, and movement is basically the deathknell for any solo foe until you start hitting people with legendaries. Even then it is a massive addle (though you'll need to deal with legendary resistances first). Combining this with mind sliver to make it extra hard for a foe to resist means you basically never need to fear a single, non-legendary, foe ever again.
Darkness: You need to pick up Devils Sight from the Warlock to truely make the most of this; but even without, you basically render an entire area null. You take it and you'll find a bunch of uses for it. Fog Cloud also works but it has counters that Darkness does not.
3rd: Fireball/Lightning Bolt: Which one you pick depends on how much your GM likes pitting fire-resistant foes against you and how concerned you are about friendly fire. You can pick up a feat to negate the resistance but nothing will stop idiot teammates. Lightning Bolt if you're concerned about FF, Fireball if you're not.
Counterspell: Another staple. Always assume an enemy caster has this and always keep a counterspell in reserve for when the foes bust out something powerful. It's just invaluable.
Haste: Another godsend; especially since you can twin it. While giving it to yourself doesn't help too much, double movement, +2 AC, advantage on dex saves, and an extra action is amazing for your melee fighters. Even if you're not twinning it, just getting this on one of them will OMGWTFOP them. The penalty for if the spell ends is painful though (basically losing a turn) so you want to avoid being in situations where that could happen all together.
Slow: The exact opposite of Haste, but on enemies. It's really crippling and getting it to stick can basically end an entire group; but it's not a potent as haste since the enemies don't use bonus actions. Still, half movement, AC reduction, dex disadvantage, and such...
That should be a good, rounded, selection for you to start with. There's a bunch of spells that are certainly potent and useful but either I have personal doubts about (shield. I'd rather not be targeted in the first place), are useful but not AS useful (Dragon's Breath is actually pretty potent, but not in so much as haste), or might be a bit more situational/not conform to my own personal playstyle so I can't honestly vouche for them.
Keep an eye on your sorc points and don't be afraid to sac spell-slots to regain them. Something like a twinned haste or quickened fireball can be a gamechanger when an unused spell-slot just sits there.
Edit: Personal thoughts of the metamagic as well.
Twinned: Invaluable; especially when it comes to buffing allies/debuffing foes. A lot of spells that were merely 'okay' on one target take a serious jump up when twinned. Even on a basic level, being able to twin a firebolt or something makes a solid damage output. Be careful though as the cost depends on spell level.
Quickened: Being able to push your spell-cast off onto your bonus action is amazing since it means you can now use your normal action for other stuff. Like disengaging from a foe in melee range. So 'disengage, move, fireball' is a perfectly realistic thing to do with quickened. While you can't cast two slotted spells in the same turn, you can cast a slotted spell AND a cantrip as well. Which means you can combo Mind Sliver with a spell that targets a save. Or even just put some extra damage or something on a foe you REALLY want dead!
Distant: The problem with distant is that most spells already have enough range as-is. However, you can also turn spells that have a range of 'touch' into having a 30 foot range. While it seems weird to me that a spell with a range of 5 would be doubled to 10, but a spell with a range of touch would hit 30, that's irrelevant to the value of the metamagic. I would say it has potential but I've never experimented with it.
Careful: Really kinda meh. You can only give up to 5 (unless you find a way to break the CHA cap) creatures an auto-success against an AoE spell. For something like fireball that's just half-damage. Sure, there's some stuff with no downsides if you succeed; but you can also just aim better. The number of situations where careful will be useful is minor.
Empowered: Empowered isn't bad, per-say. Taking a bunch of 1's and 2's and turning them into higher numbers is useful. But it not only has a soft cap of 5 (I suppose more if you could get your CHA bonus above 20), but it doesn't actually do anything to modify the spell. Just gives you more damage. Plus there's no guarentee that the new rolls will be better. Doesn't conflict with other MM's at least.
Extend: The problem is that it only works on spells that last a minute or longer. Most fights don't even last a minute in the first place. So the number of spells where this could even be useful is limited to begin with. While I'm certain someone out there found a way to break it and make it OP, in most cases, it's just a waste.
Heightened: 3 sorc points to make only one target get disadvantage on a save is really costly for a low pay-out. On the one hand there's some really potent spells that are either single-target anyways or require upcasting to hit multiple foes. On the other hand there's a bunch of AoE spells that would be really useful if it didn't have this limit; but since it does... Not to mention that disadvantage does not equate to 'will fail the save'. They're more LIKELY to do so, but it's not a guarentee. This is a 'later' metamagic to be taken if/when you've already gotten better options.
Subtle: This is deceptively useful. Removing the somatic and verbal components means silence doesn't affect you and, at least in theory, you can cast while bound and gagged. Or without letting other people know you're casting. As a result, it ends up finding it's way into being used a lot more than you'd think. At the same time, if you don't pick it up, it's not the end of the world.
Seeking: Really useful. Don't get me wrong. Being able to turn a miss into a hit is invaluable. Doesn't even conflict with other meta-magic. My only hang-up is that any sorc worth their salt will be investing heavily into CHA so any spell they cast will likely have a solid to-hit bonus already. Not worthless, but you also have better options.
Transmuted: This is either extremely useful, or extremely useless. If you are fighting a lot of foes with resistances/immunities (like elementals) being able to change the damage around is invaluable. Likewise if you have a feat like Elemental Adept or some magic item that depends on the damage element or something, this can become invaluable. As a result, if you use this feat or not is situational.
Thanks so much! I'll look into those spells. You're ok with starting with shield at lev 1? Abs Elements can come in a level or two. I only have 2 spell slots anyway to start.
Nothing wrong with taking shield, especially early on. I just feel there's better options. But it's not like you're shooting yourself in the foot and will end up helpless. You should also look into mage armor which makes your AC 13+dex mod for 8 hours which might be a more economical choice.
Level 1 casters of pretty much any sort are really cantrip spammers as your leveled slots are way too few for anything other than emergencies. Mage armor makes sense because of the 8 hr protection. Assuming a 14 Dex that gives you a 15 AC for the day with one other slot available for later emergencies.
Divine Soul is my favorite sorcerer subclass. For your leveled spells I would personally skip shield in the beginning as you’ll end up hoarding it because you’ll only have the one slot left after casting mage armor. I would personally go with a good utility spell, something that’s useful in lots of variations non-combat situations. But that’s me.
One of my favorite cantrips is actually word of radiance. If you ever find yourself surrounded there’s nothing better. I once had a 2nd tier PC roll a 5 and a 6 on the dice and kill a whole group of weenies that had my character surrounded. Good times.
I already have CON based natural armor and (because of that I selected) 8 DEX (Loxodon).Thanks though. I used (optional) custom generation and a family backstory to change the +2 CON and +1 WIS to +2 CHA and +1 CON. I even tied the divine part of divine soul into the story (based on an experience an adventuring paladin ancestor had hundreds of years ago).
That's funny because someone here told me to drop it WOR, but sometimes you get swarmed with kobolds or something, and with WOR there is no friendly fire, so I didn't change it. I haven't started using this character yet so it's Lev 1. Thanks!
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see the point of the Divine Soul Sorcerer. Granted - in full disclosure - I am quite partial to playing clerics, but the Divine Soul just seems like a Diet Cleric. So why not just play a cleric???
The short answer to this is Metamagic; being able to use Quickened Spell on bless is probably the simplest example in favour of divine soul, as being able to buff most (or even all) of the party and still do something else on your opening turn is great, whereas a Cleric either can't do much else or really needs a chance to setup before starting a fight. Twinned Spell also combines nicely with a lot of Cleric spells like guiding bolt (allies fighting two different enemies? Help them both!) or healing word (two allies went down to a big blast? No problem!).
Obviously at an early level you won't be doing a lot of this, so Cleric probably has the early advantage (tiny bit extra HP, access to armour etc.) but as you get more Metamagics and sorcery points Divine Soul can really outperform Cleric in certain areas, but it depends a lot on what exactly you want from the character. You don't need to take that many Cleric spells on a Divine Soul to really make the most of its features, so you still have access to a lot of the sorcerer spell list as well.
A Divine Soul is unlikely to beat a Life Domain Cleric at pure support, but it can still dish out a lot of it while also being a capable ranged blaster or control caster. Another area where Divine Soul is good is in your options for multi-classing, as with it being Charisma based you have easy access to Bard, Paladin and Warlock multiclasses and there are some really powerful combinations you can make with these as well. Not that Cleric is bad for multiclassing, it just has different combos that work best for it (personally I love a few levels of Cleric on a Monk).
Clerics rule. Clerics are awesome. But again - I am biased in that regard, so.... just my 2 c.p.
Clerics are awesome, but that doesn't mean Divine Soul can't be too. 😉
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That's funny because someone here told me to drop it WOR, but sometimes you get swarmed with kobolds or something, and with WOR there is no friendly fire, so I didn't change it. I haven't started using this character yet so it's Lev 1. Thanks!
My logic is that WOR requires you to be in melee range and you don't ever want to be in melee range if you can help it as a caster. You're better off disengaging and fleeing or using Misty Step to GTFO. It's not that there won't be situations where WOR will be useful, it's that you want to stop the situations where it would be useful from coming up in the first place.
I get it but at level 1, I don't have misty step. I'm not a rogue, so disengaging wastes an action. At least I have the shield spell (as a Loxodon with high CON, AC is 15 already) to help if I get swarmed. I can always change the cantrip when I level up a bit and no longer need it. Thanks for the feedback!
I also created a Yuan-ti Paladin but when I hit Lev 2, I'm switching to Divine Soul Sorcerer (2 Pal/1 Sorc). Let's see which of these works better.
Idk if you still want more info, but I recently played a Divine Soul Sorcerer from 1st through 18th levels.
Metamagic is huge, it’s really what makes a Sorcerer. The ability to twin spells like Heal later on is super nice, and really gives you bang for your buck. Also, you can’t go wrong with chromatic orb and fire bolt. I was my party’s only healer, so I took Revivify, which I used at least five times, as well as Raise Dead a couple of times.
My favorite defensive spells are Mage Armor and Shield, because I can’t take a lot of hits, but if you don’t have great dexterity, it won’t be as helpful, especially if you have another source of AC. I really like Mirror Image because it’s fast to cast (I use Quickened Spell for that, quickened spell is so useful), and Blur can be useful, too, though I never took it.
Your best offensive Cantrip is Firebolt, it deals 1d10 fire damage and at later levels even more. If you face a lot of fire resistant enemies, I would suggest Chill Touch or Sacred Flame. I’ve never used word of radiance, I’ve always used shocking grasp to get out of melee situations. My race was a protector Aasimar so I could fly by level 3, and and fly reliably by level 14 though, so I didn’t have to get out of melee to often. Once you reach level 14, my favorite offensive strategy is to fly way out of reach and wreak havoc with twinned empowered Chromatic Orbs and Firebolts, as well as some Fireballs.
If you take feats, War Caster is a great one for taking hits and maintaining concentration if you need that. Metamagic adept is also good for having even more Metamagic options, but before you take any feats I highly recommend getting that CHA up to 20.
Hope this helps!
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What do you think of this subclass? It's the only sorc class I'm interested in right now. Any tips for building and running one. Going with autognome and the Wildspacer background. Definitely have to take the mend cantrip (it's great for autognomes) and will guiding bolt. I'll be good aligned so will get cure wounds for free.
I've been running an autognome circle of stars druid but need a character for a different group.
Thanks!
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see the point of the Divine Soul Sorcerer. Granted - in full disclosure - I am quite partial to playing clerics, but the Divine Soul just seems like a Diet Cleric. So why not just play a cleric??? Let's weight the pros and cons.
As a cleric you'd get a bigger Hit Die, a d8 as opposed to the sorcerer's d6. As a cleric you'd get to wear at least medium armor and a shield, possibly even heavy armor, as opposed to the sorcerer's NO armor. As a cleric you have access to ALL the spells in your spell list and can choose which to prepare on any given day, as opposed to sorcerers who learn a very limited number of spells that they're stuck with. And clerics get their subclass abilities at levels 1, 2, 6, 8, and 17, as opposed to sorcerers who only get 1, 6, 14, and 18. Plus clerics get Channel Divinity, and Divine Intervention, and a damage boost at level 8, and ritual spellcasting, and Domain spells that are always prepared. And to balance off against ALL of that, sorcerers have what? Metamagic? Come on!
Just play a cleric. If you really want some arcane magic, play Arcana Domain, or Knowledge Domain. If you like the idea of casting Cure Wounds, play Life Domain and cure a bit extra. Or... if you really want to have some fun... play a Light Cleric! The bad guys think it's all fun and games until the cleric starts whipping Fireballs around the battlefield!
Clerics rule. Clerics are awesome. But again - I am biased in that regard, so.... just my 2 c.p.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
I'm trying to branch out past druid and cleric since I like being classes with decent healing. I'm in a few games (some are one shots). I already run a circle of stars druid in a regular game (online spelljammer) and have a peace cleric rolled up for another. I did try paladin but didn't like it much (did not have enough spell slots for both divine smile and healing and lay on hands wasn't enough) and am not ready to try it as a multiclass build. There is always celestial warlock but doesn't appeal to me. Neither does way of mercy monk.
I've thought of those issues. Armor isn't an issue with an autognome. Not worried about weapons so much since not planning on being melee. As far as HD, with the wildspacer background, I get +2 HP per level (I'm still worried about the HP but I would be with a cleric too...I'll probably either take silvery barbs or shield). I like the idea of twinning guiding bolt or healing and maybe empowered to start (maybe quickened, heightened or extended at later levels; distant for spelljammer ship to ship attacks). 4th level I'm thinking Fae touched for misty step and gift of alacrity if the DM allows it (the online SJ DM most likely wouldn't since he doesn't use Critical role stuff but that's not where this character is going).
So, back to the post: What do people who have run Divine soul sorcerers think of it? Any tips?
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Don't forget that Empowered Healing can affect not only your own healing, but allies' as well. The Divine Soul sorc in one of my campaigns has used this to help me (Druid) in critical moments. Favored by the Gods is great for critical moments as well. Twinning spells is tremendous too; our sorc has pulled off some amazing moves with that. Don't underestimate metamagic!
Div Sorc is amazing and offers a lot that makes it much different from playing a Cleric. Sorcerer is probably the most underrated class and getting the cleric spell list just makes it that much better.
Con save prof: This is huge, not just for concentration but in general con saves tend to happen all the time.
Shield and absorb elements: The amount of damage this avoids is crazy.
Other highlights from sorc spell list: sleep, slivery barbs, Misty step, fireball, counterspell, polymorph, Ddoor, animate objects, etc. Most of the best wizard spells are also sorc spells.
Metamagic: People seem to underestimate how good this is for action economy. Twin spelling guiding bolt or healing words for just 1 sorc point is incredibly good. And being able to do things like empowering a fireball, or any aoe has a massive impact.
Font: being able to convert spell slots is also extremely effective. Upcasting tends to be incredibly inefficient most of the time, so twinning, empowering or just converting point to slots to cast tends to be a much better option.
Magical guidance: Choose to reroll, after you fail, if that doesn't work use your favored by the gods.
I'm not saying clerics aren't great, but saying there is no reason to play divine soul instead of a cleric is just wrong.
IF its built properly its VERY powerful. RP and flavor is strong too. Like any of the sorcerer subclasses you just have to going in knowing exactly what you want and selecting the best spells and metamagics to achieve that end. No sorcerer build, except maybe the aberrant mind is a beginner or even intermediate build, you have to have a lot of meta knowledge to build on right.
Divine Soul can be very OP if built right. Being able to twin/quicken a bunch of cleric spells as well as fall back on the sorcs own spell list results in a massive power spike for your entire party. You need to be careful with your spell picks, but if you do it right, DS is possibly the most OP of the sorc subclasses.
Thanks. Starting at Lev 1 (Custom Loxodon for high CHA/CON instead of CON/WIS) with mage hand (I'm open to another utility option), guidance, firebolt, word of radiance (for in case enemies get close since no friendly fire), cure wounds (Good aligned), shield, and either guiding bolt or Chaos bolt. I like the way GB gives advantage on next attack, but CB has a chance of coming up with another bolt...and a chance to select the damage type.
What are your favorite spells for the subclass? Anything I should work into the spell list or build?
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Firstly, I would insist you pick up Mind Sliver as a cantrip if you have access to it. Attacking INT to put a penalty on foes saves is very useful. I would suggest dropping WoR for it as there's better options to trying to fight in melee if you're a caster; namely GTFOing there.
From the cleric list:
1st level: One of Cure Wounds/Healing Word for SURE, but you already have this.
Command: Can be extremely powerful. Might want to get a dictionary or look up some good commands online. Autodefenestrate is a classic but your GM may not allow it and it would require a window even if they did.
Shield of Faith: A solid choice and you can twin it to buff two people.
2nd level: Silence: This one requires that you pick up subtle spell to really capitalize on it; but if you do... a lot of casters spells require vocal components. So casting silence on them is a non-negatable shut-down of that entire area. If you get subtle you can cast it while you're in the area as well without problems.
3rd: Dispel Magic: Kind of a no-duh here.
Mass Healing Word: Also a 'no-duh' here.
From the Sorc list:
1st: Absorb Elements: Invaluable as the sheer volume of times you'll need to deal with enemy casters will reveal.
2nd: Misty Step: A godsend ability. This is why I advise against your suggestion of WoR. Because you can just misty-step out of combat then follow up with a firebolt. If you're willing to expend the sorc points you can also disengage, run, then cast, say, a fireball that's quickened. Even if you have NO options it's probably better to get out of melee range than to try and fight it out unless you have no allies nearby.
Tasha's Mind Whip: This spell is OP as heck. The damage isn't that amazing; but it's secondary effect... Forcing an enemy to choose between their action, bonus action, and movement is basically the deathknell for any solo foe until you start hitting people with legendaries. Even then it is a massive addle (though you'll need to deal with legendary resistances first). Combining this with mind sliver to make it extra hard for a foe to resist means you basically never need to fear a single, non-legendary, foe ever again.
Darkness: You need to pick up Devils Sight from the Warlock to truely make the most of this; but even without, you basically render an entire area null. You take it and you'll find a bunch of uses for it. Fog Cloud also works but it has counters that Darkness does not.
3rd: Fireball/Lightning Bolt: Which one you pick depends on how much your GM likes pitting fire-resistant foes against you and how concerned you are about friendly fire. You can pick up a feat to negate the resistance but nothing will stop idiot teammates. Lightning Bolt if you're concerned about FF, Fireball if you're not.
Counterspell: Another staple. Always assume an enemy caster has this and always keep a counterspell in reserve for when the foes bust out something powerful. It's just invaluable.
Haste: Another godsend; especially since you can twin it. While giving it to yourself doesn't help too much, double movement, +2 AC, advantage on dex saves, and an extra action is amazing for your melee fighters. Even if you're not twinning it, just getting this on one of them will OMGWTFOP them. The penalty for if the spell ends is painful though (basically losing a turn) so you want to avoid being in situations where that could happen all together.
Slow: The exact opposite of Haste, but on enemies. It's really crippling and getting it to stick can basically end an entire group; but it's not a potent as haste since the enemies don't use bonus actions. Still, half movement, AC reduction, dex disadvantage, and such...
That should be a good, rounded, selection for you to start with. There's a bunch of spells that are certainly potent and useful but either I have personal doubts about (shield. I'd rather not be targeted in the first place), are useful but not AS useful (Dragon's Breath is actually pretty potent, but not in so much as haste), or might be a bit more situational/not conform to my own personal playstyle so I can't honestly vouche for them.
Keep an eye on your sorc points and don't be afraid to sac spell-slots to regain them. Something like a twinned haste or quickened fireball can be a gamechanger when an unused spell-slot just sits there.
Edit: Personal thoughts of the metamagic as well.
Twinned: Invaluable; especially when it comes to buffing allies/debuffing foes. A lot of spells that were merely 'okay' on one target take a serious jump up when twinned. Even on a basic level, being able to twin a firebolt or something makes a solid damage output. Be careful though as the cost depends on spell level.
Quickened: Being able to push your spell-cast off onto your bonus action is amazing since it means you can now use your normal action for other stuff. Like disengaging from a foe in melee range. So 'disengage, move, fireball' is a perfectly realistic thing to do with quickened. While you can't cast two slotted spells in the same turn, you can cast a slotted spell AND a cantrip as well. Which means you can combo Mind Sliver with a spell that targets a save. Or even just put some extra damage or something on a foe you REALLY want dead!
Distant: The problem with distant is that most spells already have enough range as-is. However, you can also turn spells that have a range of 'touch' into having a 30 foot range. While it seems weird to me that a spell with a range of 5 would be doubled to 10, but a spell with a range of touch would hit 30, that's irrelevant to the value of the metamagic. I would say it has potential but I've never experimented with it.
Careful: Really kinda meh. You can only give up to 5 (unless you find a way to break the CHA cap) creatures an auto-success against an AoE spell. For something like fireball that's just half-damage. Sure, there's some stuff with no downsides if you succeed; but you can also just aim better. The number of situations where careful will be useful is minor.
Empowered: Empowered isn't bad, per-say. Taking a bunch of 1's and 2's and turning them into higher numbers is useful. But it not only has a soft cap of 5 (I suppose more if you could get your CHA bonus above 20), but it doesn't actually do anything to modify the spell. Just gives you more damage. Plus there's no guarentee that the new rolls will be better. Doesn't conflict with other MM's at least.
Extend: The problem is that it only works on spells that last a minute or longer. Most fights don't even last a minute in the first place. So the number of spells where this could even be useful is limited to begin with. While I'm certain someone out there found a way to break it and make it OP, in most cases, it's just a waste.
Heightened: 3 sorc points to make only one target get disadvantage on a save is really costly for a low pay-out. On the one hand there's some really potent spells that are either single-target anyways or require upcasting to hit multiple foes. On the other hand there's a bunch of AoE spells that would be really useful if it didn't have this limit; but since it does... Not to mention that disadvantage does not equate to 'will fail the save'. They're more LIKELY to do so, but it's not a guarentee. This is a 'later' metamagic to be taken if/when you've already gotten better options.
Subtle: This is deceptively useful. Removing the somatic and verbal components means silence doesn't affect you and, at least in theory, you can cast while bound and gagged. Or without letting other people know you're casting. As a result, it ends up finding it's way into being used a lot more than you'd think. At the same time, if you don't pick it up, it's not the end of the world.
Seeking: Really useful. Don't get me wrong. Being able to turn a miss into a hit is invaluable. Doesn't even conflict with other meta-magic. My only hang-up is that any sorc worth their salt will be investing heavily into CHA so any spell they cast will likely have a solid to-hit bonus already. Not worthless, but you also have better options.
Transmuted: This is either extremely useful, or extremely useless. If you are fighting a lot of foes with resistances/immunities (like elementals) being able to change the damage around is invaluable. Likewise if you have a feat like Elemental Adept or some magic item that depends on the damage element or something, this can become invaluable. As a result, if you use this feat or not is situational.
Thanks so much! I'll look into those spells. You're ok with starting with shield at lev 1? Abs Elements can come in a level or two. I only have 2 spell slots anyway to start.
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Nothing wrong with taking shield, especially early on. I just feel there's better options. But it's not like you're shooting yourself in the foot and will end up helpless. You should also look into mage armor which makes your AC 13+dex mod for 8 hours which might be a more economical choice.
Level 1 casters of pretty much any sort are really cantrip spammers as your leveled slots are way too few for anything other than emergencies. Mage armor makes sense because of the 8 hr protection. Assuming a 14 Dex that gives you a 15 AC for the day with one other slot available for later emergencies.
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Divine Soul is my favorite sorcerer subclass. For your leveled spells I would personally skip shield in the beginning as you’ll end up hoarding it because you’ll only have the one slot left after casting mage armor. I would personally go with a good utility spell, something that’s useful in lots of variations non-combat situations. But that’s me.
One of my favorite cantrips is actually word of radiance. If you ever find yourself surrounded there’s nothing better. I once had a 2nd tier PC roll a 5 and a 6 on the dice and kill a whole group of weenies that had my character surrounded. Good times.
I already have built in (CON based) armor and low dex (Loxodon), so shield would work better of those two. Thanks though.
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I already have CON based natural armor and (because of that I selected) 8 DEX (Loxodon).Thanks though. I used (optional) custom generation and a family backstory to change the +2 CON and +1 WIS to +2 CHA and +1 CON. I even tied the divine part of divine soul into the story (based on an experience an adventuring paladin ancestor had hundreds of years ago).
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That's funny because someone here told me to drop it WOR, but sometimes you get swarmed with kobolds or something, and with WOR there is no friendly fire, so I didn't change it. I haven't started using this character yet so it's Lev 1. Thanks!
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The short answer to this is Metamagic; being able to use Quickened Spell on bless is probably the simplest example in favour of divine soul, as being able to buff most (or even all) of the party and still do something else on your opening turn is great, whereas a Cleric either can't do much else or really needs a chance to setup before starting a fight. Twinned Spell also combines nicely with a lot of Cleric spells like guiding bolt (allies fighting two different enemies? Help them both!) or healing word (two allies went down to a big blast? No problem!).
Obviously at an early level you won't be doing a lot of this, so Cleric probably has the early advantage (tiny bit extra HP, access to armour etc.) but as you get more Metamagics and sorcery points Divine Soul can really outperform Cleric in certain areas, but it depends a lot on what exactly you want from the character. You don't need to take that many Cleric spells on a Divine Soul to really make the most of its features, so you still have access to a lot of the sorcerer spell list as well.
A Divine Soul is unlikely to beat a Life Domain Cleric at pure support, but it can still dish out a lot of it while also being a capable ranged blaster or control caster. Another area where Divine Soul is good is in your options for multi-classing, as with it being Charisma based you have easy access to Bard, Paladin and Warlock multiclasses and there are some really powerful combinations you can make with these as well. Not that Cleric is bad for multiclassing, it just has different combos that work best for it (personally I love a few levels of Cleric on a Monk).
Clerics are awesome, but that doesn't mean Divine Soul can't be too. 😉
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My logic is that WOR requires you to be in melee range and you don't ever want to be in melee range if you can help it as a caster. You're better off disengaging and fleeing or using Misty Step to GTFO. It's not that there won't be situations where WOR will be useful, it's that you want to stop the situations where it would be useful from coming up in the first place.
I get it but at level 1, I don't have misty step. I'm not a rogue, so disengaging wastes an action. At least I have the shield spell (as a Loxodon with high CON, AC is 15 already) to help if I get swarmed. I can always change the cantrip when I level up a bit and no longer need it. Thanks for the feedback!
I also created a Yuan-ti Paladin but when I hit Lev 2, I'm switching to Divine Soul Sorcerer (2 Pal/1 Sorc). Let's see which of these works better.
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Idk if you still want more info, but I recently played a Divine Soul Sorcerer from 1st through 18th levels.
Metamagic is huge, it’s really what makes a Sorcerer. The ability to twin spells like Heal later on is super nice, and really gives you bang for your buck. Also, you can’t go wrong with chromatic orb and fire bolt. I was my party’s only healer, so I took Revivify, which I used at least five times, as well as Raise Dead a couple of times.
My favorite defensive spells are Mage Armor and Shield, because I can’t take a lot of hits, but if you don’t have great dexterity, it won’t be as helpful, especially if you have another source of AC. I really like Mirror Image because it’s fast to cast (I use Quickened Spell for that, quickened spell is so useful), and Blur can be useful, too, though I never took it.
Your best offensive Cantrip is Firebolt, it deals 1d10 fire damage and at later levels even more. If you face a lot of fire resistant enemies, I would suggest Chill Touch or Sacred Flame. I’ve never used word of radiance, I’ve always used shocking grasp to get out of melee situations. My race was a protector Aasimar so I could fly by level 3, and and fly reliably by level 14 though, so I didn’t have to get out of melee to often. Once you reach level 14, my favorite offensive strategy is to fly way out of reach and wreak havoc with twinned empowered Chromatic Orbs and Firebolts, as well as some Fireballs.
If you take feats, War Caster is a great one for taking hits and maintaining concentration if you need that. Metamagic adept is also good for having even more Metamagic options, but before you take any feats I highly recommend getting that CHA up to 20.
Hope this helps!