I want to make a shadow sorcerer loosely based on one of my favorite games of all time, Hollow Knight, he'll be a melee utility caster who favors mobility but I'm not sure what spells I should pick up and what race I should play. Especially the cantrips and whether it's worth buying the statblocks for more melee spells like green flame blade.
If anyone could help me, that would be appreciated.
If you can get any race, then go for the Eladrin from Mord.s Tome of Foes (not the DMG version). Or you can go Drow, getting a rapier and the Faerie Fire at 3rd.
Eladring gets +1 Charisma, and more importantly Fey Step (powered up Misty Step). Hard to get more mobile than that.
Sorcerer Cantrips, I would want:
Either Green Flame Blade or Booming Blade. Both let you attack with a blade once for extra damage. Start with a dagger if are Eladrin, Rapier if you are Drow.
A ranged attack such that screw with their movement such as Ray of Frost, Lightning Lure, or Create Bonfire.
Mage Hand
Message or Minor Illusion
1st level spells, I suggest Chaos bolt. 2d8+d6, with a 1/8 chance of getting another attack and Mage Armor till you hit 3rd level, then switch it out for Shield.
I would also suggest taking 1 or 2 levels of fighter at some point. Gets you armor, swords, Second wind and Action Surge - action surge can be used to cast another spell in the same round.
This is an excellent breakdown of the sorcerer spell list, with descriptions of use cases and comparisons between spells so you can get the most out of the pitiful amount of spells known by the sorcerer. (I'm a bit bitter).
Oh yeah, that site really hates melee sorcerer. Which in my opinion, just means that the people who run the site are missing out. A melee shadow sorcerer sounds fun as hell.
To be an effective melee caster, you might think about multi-classing with Warlock or Valor Bard/College of Swords bard to get access to medium armor. Both are Charisma-using caster classes, so no problems on that front. You would also get a slightly larger selection of low level spells and spammable abilities to help you survive, like the Fiendish Vigor Invocation from the Warlock class.
The problem is that site hates the idea of a melee sorcerer. Telling him to go there is weird.
If you want to play a melee Sorcerer, do it. That means taking melee spells, despite what that site or others tell you.
well making a melee shadow sorcerer is not a path to great success. At low levels it can work alright-ish, but that effectiveness will fall away.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Yeah, I'm mostly making it a shadow sorcerer for aesthetic purposes. I'll probably put some level into fighter or hexblade warlock for that reason. Just know that when I'm presented with a shadow dog and a subclass that is objectively better for my build, I pick the wrong one.
As a melee sorcerer, you generally want to multiclass to get additional defenses. Either hexblade warlock, for medium armor + shield plus the ability to attack with charisma, OR paladin for the first couple levels to get heavy armor + shield plus divine smites to stack up on your booming blade.
As you are in melee, you will want to have your damage spells be save-based, this will let you quicken a blasting or control spell and then hit them with a booming blade.
I would recommend variant human with mobile, as it will help you kite monsters and trigger the booming blade explosion. Beyond that, the aasimar variants are all good options, with protector being a bit better due to the flight speed, this lets you escape melee when you need to. Eladrin is solid as well.
Without multiclassing, you will need a high dexterity to get a decent AC, so you would need to focus more on spells that problem solve and do not use your casting stat as heavily.
He could go mountain dwarf too to pick up medium armor. There's no bonus to charisma, but with an axe or hammer, with booming blade and greenflame blade, he'll be OK until he can get shadowblade. Since he's focusing on melee, a slightly lower charisma isn't a game breaker. He might want to consider a feat for moderately armored to get shield access, but I hate the fact that you don't get the full benefit (already proficient with medium armor).
Should work decently at low levels, but I am not sure how well it's going to scale.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The spells I took were green flame blade, booming blade, mage hand, minor illusion, chaos bolt, and shield. I decided to have two melee cantrips because I decided to be a goblin so I can disengage as a bonus action (rolling stats went pretty well). I'll put levels into hexblade warlock so I can cast mage armor at will and get more versatility in eldritch blast, and more melee weapons. I'll pick up the pact of the blade and get the basic hexblade warlock stuff, agonizing blast, improved pact weapon, etc.
If it needs any changes let me know, I'm probably not going to use this for a while anyway.
If you're planning on going Hexblade, you need to plan your Invocation economy very carefully. You only get a few and if you are using some for non-Blade related invocations, you will fall behind in the damage department (assuming that you care about that kind of thing). Also, Mage Armor only castable on yourself isn't very good. False Life on yourself at will, though? You basically get yourself topped off on temp hit points any time you want.
If you are playing Hexblade Warlock to 5th level or higher, Thirsting Blade is pretty much mandatory to stay comparable with classes like Fighter or Paladin for damage. I don't know if Improve Pact Weapon is worth it until you talk to your DM. Your DM might just give you a magic weapon that you can then use as your Pact Weapon, in which case you would be sort of wasting the Invocation.
See also this thread on Improved Pact Weapon discussion of potential benefits.
Something to remember, you can't use the melee cantrips /and/ thirsting blade. They are mutually exclusive, unless you're quickening a cantrip, then two basic attacks with thirsting blade.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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I want to make a shadow sorcerer loosely based on one of my favorite games of all time, Hollow Knight, he'll be a melee utility caster who favors mobility but I'm not sure what spells I should pick up and what race I should play. Especially the cantrips and whether it's worth buying the statblocks for more melee spells like green flame blade.
If anyone could help me, that would be appreciated.
If you can get any race, then go for the Eladrin from Mord.s Tome of Foes (not the DMG version). Or you can go Drow, getting a rapier and the Faerie Fire at 3rd.
Eladring gets +1 Charisma, and more importantly Fey Step (powered up Misty Step). Hard to get more mobile than that.
Sorcerer Cantrips, I would want:
1st level spells, I suggest Chaos bolt. 2d8+d6, with a 1/8 chance of getting another attack and Mage Armor till you hit 3rd level, then switch it out for Shield.
I would also suggest taking 1 or 2 levels of fighter at some point. Gets you armor, swords, Second wind and Action Surge - action surge can be used to cast another spell in the same round.
I recommend looking at this site: https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/classes/sorcerer/spells.html
This is an excellent breakdown of the sorcerer spell list, with descriptions of use cases and comparisons between spells so you can get the most out of the pitiful amount of spells known by the sorcerer. (I'm a bit bitter).
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
The problem is that site hates the idea of a melee sorcerer. Telling him to go there is weird.
If you want to play a melee Sorcerer, do it. That means taking melee spells, despite what that site or others tell you.
Oh yeah, that site really hates melee sorcerer. Which in my opinion, just means that the people who run the site are missing out. A melee shadow sorcerer sounds fun as hell.
To be an effective melee caster, you might think about multi-classing with Warlock or Valor Bard/College of Swords bard to get access to medium armor. Both are Charisma-using caster classes, so no problems on that front. You would also get a slightly larger selection of low level spells and spammable abilities to help you survive, like the Fiendish Vigor Invocation from the Warlock class.
well making a melee shadow sorcerer is not a path to great success. At low levels it can work alright-ish, but that effectiveness will fall away.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, I'm mostly making it a shadow sorcerer for aesthetic purposes. I'll probably put some level into fighter or hexblade warlock for that reason. Just know that when I'm presented with a shadow dog and a subclass that is objectively better for my build, I pick the wrong one.
Race ??? The froggie race.
Spells ??? Illusion arcanist. = Thousands of laughs incomming.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
As a melee sorcerer, you generally want to multiclass to get additional defenses. Either hexblade warlock, for medium armor + shield plus the ability to attack with charisma, OR paladin for the first couple levels to get heavy armor + shield plus divine smites to stack up on your booming blade.
As you are in melee, you will want to have your damage spells be save-based, this will let you quicken a blasting or control spell and then hit them with a booming blade.
I would recommend variant human with mobile, as it will help you kite monsters and trigger the booming blade explosion. Beyond that, the aasimar variants are all good options, with protector being a bit better due to the flight speed, this lets you escape melee when you need to. Eladrin is solid as well.
Without multiclassing, you will need a high dexterity to get a decent AC, so you would need to focus more on spells that problem solve and do not use your casting stat as heavily.
He could go mountain dwarf too to pick up medium armor. There's no bonus to charisma, but with an axe or hammer, with booming blade and greenflame blade, he'll be OK until he can get shadowblade. Since he's focusing on melee, a slightly lower charisma isn't a game breaker. He might want to consider a feat for moderately armored to get shield access, but I hate the fact that you don't get the full benefit (already proficient with medium armor).
Should work decently at low levels, but I am not sure how well it's going to scale.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I think I got started on my build now.
The spells I took were green flame blade, booming blade, mage hand, minor illusion, chaos bolt, and shield. I decided to have two melee cantrips because I decided to be a goblin so I can disengage as a bonus action (rolling stats went pretty well). I'll put levels into hexblade warlock so I can cast mage armor at will and get more versatility in eldritch blast, and more melee weapons. I'll pick up the pact of the blade and get the basic hexblade warlock stuff, agonizing blast, improved pact weapon, etc.
If it needs any changes let me know, I'm probably not going to use this for a while anyway.
If you're planning on going Hexblade, you need to plan your Invocation economy very carefully. You only get a few and if you are using some for non-Blade related invocations, you will fall behind in the damage department (assuming that you care about that kind of thing). Also, Mage Armor only castable on yourself isn't very good. False Life on yourself at will, though? You basically get yourself topped off on temp hit points any time you want.
So should I combo improved pact weapon with thirsting blade?
If you are playing Hexblade Warlock to 5th level or higher, Thirsting Blade is pretty much mandatory to stay comparable with classes like Fighter or Paladin for damage. I don't know if Improve Pact Weapon is worth it until you talk to your DM. Your DM might just give you a magic weapon that you can then use as your Pact Weapon, in which case you would be sort of wasting the Invocation.
See also this thread on Improved Pact Weapon discussion of potential benefits.
Something to remember, you can't use the melee cantrips /and/ thirsting blade. They are mutually exclusive, unless you're quickening a cantrip, then two basic attacks with thirsting blade.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha