The problem is the damage dice, not the to hit roll. Chaos Bolt is specifically designed and described as a spell with only 2d8 +1d6. The first d8 does damage and also determines the damage type. The second does damage and determines if you hit another target.
Once you add another target, that adds two more d8, for a total of four. But the spell does NOT describe what those dice do... Yes, you COULD decide to treat it as two separate and distinct castings of Chaos Bolt. But that is a house rule. There are lots of other options, including but not limited to: first d8 determines damage type for both targets, any 1d8 that matches it causes a bounce - so you got three chances to bounce rather than two.
I am not saying you can not make this work, but when you start house ruling you have to clarify everything, not assume that the DM and the player are on the same page.
The problem is the damage dice, not the to hit roll. Chaos Bolt is specifically designed and described as a spell with only 2d8 +1d6. The first d8 does damage and also determines the damage type. The second does damage and determines if you hit another target.
Once you add another target, that adds two more d8, for a total of four. But the spell does NOT describe what those dice do... Yes, you COULD decide to treat it as two separate and distinct castings of Chaos Bolt. But that is a house rule. There are lots of other options, including but not limited to: first d8 determines damage type for both targets, any 1d8 that matches it causes a bounce - so you got three chances to bounce rather than two.
While I can see confusion on that subject for a crit, for twin spell I could only see people either rolling 2d8+d6 once for both targets or rolling it separately for each, neither of which is likely to cause confusion.
The problem is the damage dice, not the to hit roll. Chaos Bolt is specifically designed and described as a spell with only 2d8 +1d6. The first d8 does damage and also determines the damage type. The second does damage and determines if you hit another target.
Once you add another target, that adds two more d8, for a total of four. But the spell does NOT describe what those dice do... Yes, you COULD decide to treat it as two separate and distinct castings of Chaos Bolt. But that is a house rule. There are lots of other options, including but not limited to: first d8 determines damage type for both targets, any 1d8 that matches it causes a bounce - so you got three chances to bounce rather than two.
I am not saying you can not make this work, but when you start house ruling you have to clarify everything, not assume that the DM and the player are on the same page.
...that's not how chaos bolt OR twinned spell works.
You choose whichever d8 you want to be the one that determines damage type, not just the first one. Additionally you make multiple attack rolls with twinned spell if it's a spell attack, so both chaos bolts have their own set of d8s to use to determine damage type and if it chains or not.
You can't twin chaos bolt because it has the potential to affect multiple targets.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The way this could be pretty broken is if you empowered and twinned the spell allowing you to reroll the damage dice to fish for bolt jumping. The ability to twin and empower would give you a pretty good chance at getting extra damage. Empower chaos bolt is already fun and has gives your that extra chance to jump but twin doubling that could be a little nuts if you get lucky.
If chaos bolt jumps to another target when you roll the same number on the D8’s does the first target still take damage or does the whole spell just move on to who ever the next target is?
The problem is the damage dice, not the to hit roll. Chaos Bolt is specifically designed and described as a spell with only 2d8 +1d6. The first d8 does damage and also determines the damage type. The second does damage and determines if you hit another target.
Once you add another target, that adds two more d8, for a total of four. But the spell does NOT describe what those dice do... Yes, you COULD decide to treat it as two separate and distinct castings of Chaos Bolt. But that is a house rule. There are lots of other options, including but not limited to: first d8 determines damage type for both targets, any 1d8 that matches it causes a bounce - so you got three chances to bounce rather than two.
I am not saying you can not make this work, but when you start house ruling you have to clarify everything, not assume that the DM and the player are on the same page.
...that's not how chaos bolt OR twinned spell works.
You choose whichever d8 you want to be the one that determines damage type, not just the first one. Additionally you make multiple attack rolls with twinned spell if it's a spell attack, so both chaos bolts have their own set of d8s to use to determine damage type and if it chains or not.
First, I do admit that I poorly described the spell - I roll all dice at once and declare myself which is the 'first', but the rest of your description is just a Great set of house rules. None of that is in the twin description, it is all things you derived and think are logical. Others may disagree. A literal reading of the twin spell is just 'targets two creatures in range with same spell." The point is that by RAW you cannot twin Chaos Bolt and the reason is what I described. It is totally possible for someone to house rule that you can twin it, and but that means you have to explicitly describe how your house rules work. And others may disagree.
Here is another way to rule it. It is NOT 2 chaos bolts, it is one bolt that strikes two targets within 120 ft, and if it jumps, rolling only 1 set of dice, but you get to choose anyone within 30 ft of either of the targets.
Here is a third. It is one chaos bolt that strikes 2 targets within 120 ft, and if you get a jump you get TWO jumps, one from each of the original targets.
The point is you are house ruling a lot. The thing you think 'makes sense' is not RAW, nor RAI.
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Tylergreen, the first person still takes the damage. By jumping they mean both take damage.
If chaos bolt jumps to another target when you roll the same number on the D8’s does the first target still take damage or does the whole spell just move on to who ever the next target is?
It hits the original target and a new version of it gets fired at the new one.
If chaos bolt jumps to another target when you roll the same number on the D8’s does the first target still take damage or does the whole spell just move on to who ever the next target is?
Each time a Chaos Bolt jumps, it only deals damage to the new target. A single casting of Chaos Bolt can never deal damage to a single creature more than once.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If chaos bolt jumps to another target when you roll the same number on the D8’s does the first target still take damage or does the whole spell just move on to who ever the next target is?
You’d resolve the first paragraph before moving on to the “did it jump?” paragraph.
Myself, I’d let Wild Magic sorcerers twin the spell, or maybe they could roll the 2d8 with ‘advantage’ by rolling three and selecting two (but I wouldn’t use both mods). Of course it’s not RAW, but I feel like there should be some better compensation for taking the risk of point-blank fireballs and potted plant polymorphs. The spell is otherwise worse than Magic Missile, which is a shame since it’s more interesting. https://youtu.be/AGkIPRfMqa8
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"There might yet be a heaven, but it isn't going to be 'perfect', and we're going to have to build it ourselves." - Philhellenes, Science Saved My Soul
Can I according to RAW twin Chaos Bolt. I see convincing arguments for and against and as such am looking for a good RAW interpretation. Thanks
Tweet from Jeremy Crawford, re: what spells can be twinned:
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/852753812687159296
Much appreciated
RAW no, but it doesn't break anything if you let it twin, just stick to the limitation of no target getting hit more than once.
Actually, it CAN break things when you twin it.
The problem is the damage dice, not the to hit roll. Chaos Bolt is specifically designed and described as a spell with only 2d8 +1d6. The first d8 does damage and also determines the damage type. The second does damage and determines if you hit another target.
Once you add another target, that adds two more d8, for a total of four. But the spell does NOT describe what those dice do... Yes, you COULD decide to treat it as two separate and distinct castings of Chaos Bolt. But that is a house rule. There are lots of other options, including but not limited to: first d8 determines damage type for both targets, any 1d8 that matches it causes a bounce - so you got three chances to bounce rather than two.
I am not saying you can not make this work, but when you start house ruling you have to clarify everything, not assume that the DM and the player are on the same page.
While I can see confusion on that subject for a crit, for twin spell I could only see people either rolling 2d8+d6 once for both targets or rolling it separately for each, neither of which is likely to cause confusion.
...that's not how chaos bolt OR twinned spell works.
You choose whichever d8 you want to be the one that determines damage type, not just the first one. Additionally you make multiple attack rolls with twinned spell if it's a spell attack, so both chaos bolts have their own set of d8s to use to determine damage type and if it chains or not.
You can't twin chaos bolt because it has the potential to affect multiple targets.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The way this could be pretty broken is if you empowered and twinned the spell allowing you to reroll the damage dice to fish for bolt jumping. The ability to twin and empower would give you a pretty good chance at getting extra damage. Empower chaos bolt is already fun and has gives your that extra chance to jump but twin doubling that could be a little nuts if you get lucky.
If chaos bolt jumps to another target when you roll the same number on the D8’s does the first target still take damage or does the whole spell just move on to who ever the next target is?
First, I do admit that I poorly described the spell - I roll all dice at once and declare myself which is the 'first', but the rest of your description is just a Great set of house rules. None of that is in the twin description, it is all things you derived and think are logical. Others may disagree. A literal reading of the twin spell is just 'targets two creatures in range with same spell." The point is that by RAW you cannot twin Chaos Bolt and the reason is what I described. It is totally possible for someone to house rule that you can twin it, and but that means you have to explicitly describe how your house rules work. And others may disagree.
Here is another way to rule it. It is NOT 2 chaos bolts, it is one bolt that strikes two targets within 120 ft, and if it jumps, rolling only 1 set of dice, but you get to choose anyone within 30 ft of either of the targets.
Here is a third. It is one chaos bolt that strikes 2 targets within 120 ft, and if you get a jump you get TWO jumps, one from each of the original targets.
The point is you are house ruling a lot. The thing you think 'makes sense' is not RAW, nor RAI.
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Tylergreen, the first person still takes the damage. By jumping they mean both take damage.
It hits the original target and a new version of it gets fired at the new one.
Each time a Chaos Bolt jumps, it only deals damage to the new target. A single casting of Chaos Bolt can never deal damage to a single creature more than once.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You’d resolve the first paragraph before moving on to the “did it jump?” paragraph.
Myself, I’d let Wild Magic sorcerers twin the spell, or maybe they could roll the 2d8 with ‘advantage’ by rolling three and selecting two (but I wouldn’t use both mods). Of course it’s not RAW, but I feel like there should be some better compensation for taking the risk of point-blank fireballs and potted plant polymorphs. The spell is otherwise worse than Magic Missile, which is a shame since it’s more interesting.
https://youtu.be/AGkIPRfMqa8
"There might yet be a heaven, but it isn't going to be 'perfect', and we're going to have to build it ourselves." - Philhellenes, Science Saved My Soul
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