Hi. So I'm wondering about the Divine Soul sorcerer, since I have a Satyr sorcerer prepared as a backup. The extra cleric spells seems a little daunting, and complicated and I don't know if it actually adds much to the sorcerer aside from notables like Guiding Bolt and Shield of Faith. What's good about the Divine Soul, and why should I/should I not pick it over other bloodlines? Thanks in advance to everyone who responds!
The Divine Soul is a double edged sword in my opinion. On the one hand it greatly increases the spell list for the Sorcerer but on the other hand the Sorcerer is also the class that learns a very limited number of spells when compared to other full casters like the Bard or the Wizard.
The Divine Soul opens up an interesting playstyle, that of the healing blaster. However you will never be able to get the best of both worlds leaving you in a awkward state of being not quite as powerful as a blaster mage and not quite as good as a dedicated healer either. Although with Metamagic and a big pool or sorcery points you can pull off some truly memorable and crazy shit lol.
Healing blaster? Like you said, I don't think I'll be quite as a good as a dedicated healer, but when I do need to heal, I guess Empowered Healing can help for bad rolls. I'll mostly just be a blaster, to be honest, and leave the healing to another party member. I think the extra Cleric list helps, but it seems very complicated to manage that and the Sorcerer spell list, and I haven't found any guides for a Divine Soul regarding the spell list.
Those all look like really good spells! I'll probably use that as a template and replace some of the spells with what I think suits me.
But, should I go with Shield, Shield of Faith, or Sanctuary? They all seem really good, especially the latter two for protecting allies. Or should I just focus on myself and use Shield?
I enjoyed playing a Divine Soul. I actually didn't take a lot of healing spells. Healing Word is good if your cleric is down and you need to keep yourself and other party members alive. Spiritual Weapon is great at lower levels because once it's cast its up and you can cast a cantrip and then hit something over the head. Toll the Dead and Spiritual Weapon are fun to use together.
Take Shield if other party members have good ways to protect themselves. If you have a cleric leave Shield of Faith or Sanctuary to them. Remember a cleric can change out spells after every long rest and you can't. Don't clutter your spells known list up with stuff another party member can do better.
As for everything else? Why do you want to play Divine Soul? Do you have a character concept in mind? Do you want to be able to heal yourself as needed? Do you want to back up the party's cleric? What you want to do with the class will determine what spells you take. Our party had a cleric and a bard with healing spells so there wasn't a lot of pressure on me to take a lot of healing spells. Clerics have some devastating damage spells though like Guiding Bolt and Inflict Wounds (don't know if you would want to get that close though).
The only thing complicated about having the full cleric list available to you is that having two lists and few spells known is that you can feel overwhelmed. It helped me to remember that I was a sorcerer. Full stop. I was not a cleric or a half cleric. That meant not taking spells that would put me in melee range (you would be surprised how quickly that cuts down your list of desirable cleric spells). It meant thinking of cleric spells as nice to have but not cluttering up my spells known with cleric spells that were more for flavor than anything else. Prayer of Healing is one of those. It takes 10 minutes to cast so you can't do it until after the party finishes combat and by then your cleric or bard will have that covered and you will be taking a short rest and rolling hit dice anyway.
If you are looking at Divine Soul because of the extra spells available I would take a look at Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul. You get origin spells that are very useful and add the flavor you are looking for. I'm playing Aberrant Mind right now and loving it.
If you have a odd Charisma stat then Fey Touched is worth a look, you learn Misty Step and a level 1 spell like Bless (which frees up your Bless spot so you can switch it to another spell)
And I would probably stick with Shield, since you can't help anybody if you are dead lol.
I actually have a concept in mind as a backstory. I found somewhere in a wiki that Hanali Celanil and a few other gods sometimes used satyrs as messengers and agents. So, my Satyr was born out of a bloodline that was blessed by Hanali Celanil for serving her as agents and messengers. Unfortunately, they were cast out of Arvandor because they kept pulling pranks on some of the gods there by Hyrsam's influence. But, for some reason the goddess who blessed them did not revoke this divine power. This power is sporadic and very unpredictable. It can take multiple generations to awaken, or multiple family members could be born with it at the same time. The satyr who I created, was lucky enough to be born with it.
I am planning to be just a damage caster with a few defensive spells, as my party has two wizards, so they could cover us in utility and stuff like that. Why wouldn't I want to go with Guiding Bolt or Inflict Wounds, they seem great! We don't have any clerics, unfortunately.
I picked Divine Soul because I couldn't think of backstories that worked with those two classes, to be honest.
What are your metamagics going to be? You want to choose spells that work with them. Twinning Guiding Bolt is fun and useful if both hit. I know a lot of Divine Souls take Extend so they don't have to get close to cast spells. I didn't but I understand the logic. Also since there are no clerics and you will probably have access to the most healing spells you may feel under pressure to take more of them to support the party. Just a warning.
You will have more cantrips available to you as a sorcerer so take advantage of it. Clerics have some good utility spells but they also have, guidance, toll the dead and sacred flame. A couple of those plus firebolt will have you covered.
As far as feats go, I think they are nice to have but not really necessary. Fey touched is great for Misty Step which is a full caster's best friend. Elemental Adapt can be good if you are thinking of taking elemental spells. Magic initiate will give you spells you might not get (Eldritch Blast, anyone?). I don't think War Caster is worth it for a sorcerer since you have proficiency on Con saves but some people like it. Resilient is overlooked but can be good since sorcerers don't have a strong hit die.
You have two wizards. Depending on their schools they may have a lot of damage spells available to them as well. The wizard list is more extensive than the sorcerer list and they can change spells out after every long rest meaning they will usually have something up their sleeve for any situation your party finds itself in.
Your advantage will be access to radiant damage. I know. playing an Aberrant Mind means I can't cast guiding bolt and I really miss having it.
I'm planning for my Metamagic types to be Quickened, Twinned, Empowered, and Heightened. They all seem really good, but I'm still not sure which metamagic I'll get for the corresponding levels.
I am planning for my Cantrip list to be: Guidance, Mage Hand, Sacred Flame, and Mind Sliver. I think this is a good mix of damage and utility.
I'll probably get Magic Initiate at lvl 4, just for Eldritch Blast, Chill Touch, and Hex. After that, I'll focus on ASIs and max my CHA, DEX, and CON.
One of the wizards are planning to go Necromancy, for the other one I'm not so sure. Yeah, I shouldn't really worry about not contributing to the party, since I'll be the only one with radiant damage and a few support spells.
You can get Chill Touch at Level 4 without magic initiate as sorcerers get an extra cantrip at Level 4. Also if you play with the optional rules in Tasha's you can change a cantrip out at every level you would get an ASI (you can also change one of your metamagics).
Quickened and Heightened are both expensive at lower levels. You will burn through them very quickly. Twinned is my favorite at low levels because you can twin a cantrip or level 1 spell for a measly 1 Sp. Of course Twinned gets more expensive if you want to twin a spell of level 3 or higher. I took Heightened as one of my first metamagics and didn't use it much until I got to higher levels and really needed to force disadvantage for spells like Banishment. I didn't take Quickened until Level 11 when my cantrips could do a respectable amount of damage and I had access to Sunbeam.
Don't underestimate Subtle. It's cheap and there is nothing like being able to Subtle counterspell or being the only caster able to sling spells if you get hit with a silence spell.
But you know your party, campaign and DM best so do whatever you think will work for you and have fun.
Oh. Then I'm not sure if I wanna get Magic Initiate, since you're forced to grab 2 cantrips. That sucks :(
Alright, I'll get twinned first, then quickened, then heightened, then subtle. I think that should work. Final question, can you twin Fireball? (Nvm, donn't answer, I looked at the Twinned metamagic and it doesn't work.) If so, that's terrifying. If not, then thank you for your help! It's really appreciated!
You could also get spell sniper , if that suits your fancy. It also has the added benefit of increasing your spell attack range, which might be useful to you.
But back on topic, I find Divine Soul to be a very interesting subclass. Thematically, the idea of an arcane spellcaster deriving their power from some divine source is very cool to me, and offers some interesting roleplay interactions with other characters who have divine power sources. Mechanically, I'd say it's about what everyone else says, balancing the the role of healer and blaster, somewhat akin to Celestial Warlocks. You could argue that it's main weakness is that it isn't as hard hitting as other sorcerer classes, but it has much more versatility than them to compensate, allowing you to sort of fill a nice all-arounder role in your party. And lets not underestimate the ability to apply metamagic to the support spells and radiant spells from the cleric spell list. A twinned casting of Healing Word, a Distant casting of Greater/Lesser Restoration. You may have less spells at your disposal, but your potential as a support character might actually be higher than many Cleric domains, depending on how creative you are with your Metamagic.
Spell Sniper sounds like a good choice, especially for hard hitting spells like Guiding Bolt. I'll consider it, thank you for the suggestion.
Yeah, Divine Souls in my opinion have the most potential for roleplaying hooks, backstories, and interactions with other characters who possess divine power, including clerics and paladins. The entire reason I picked them over the less complicated (and arguably better?) Abberant Mind, Shadow Magic, and Draconic Soul origins was because I felt they had the most role-playing potential out of them all, to be honest. (I also couldn't decide if I wanted to play between a Twilight Cleric or a Shadow Magic Sorcerer, so this was the compromise.) Yeah, with the added Cleric spell list I feel like they have some of the best versatility for all classes. Both spell lists are pretty goo and if used smartly, can contribute a lot to the party. I'm just worried I'll be overwhelmed or make some choices that don't benefit to the party at all. And sometimes I feel like I'm min/maxxing, picking the best races for classes that hardly have any hooks or well crafted backstories. I just feel stressed :(
Sorcerer can be a stressful class to play because of the limited number of spells known and the need to make sure you get the most out of your metamagic.
There are a lot of good guides out there that I found really helpful when I started. You will do great. Once you play you will discover that playing a Divine Soul is lots of fun and your party will be amazed by what you can do. The first time I twinned guiding bolt, I got lucky and both hit both targets.The other players were very impressed. Remember, if you are not getting any use out of a spell you can change it when you level up. It's like any other class, play it smartly and creatively and you will be an asset to the party.
At the end of the day, just pick what seems fun to you. It's your character, and as long as you're not being actively detrimental to your party most people won't complain.
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Yeah, I looked at some guides which included RPGBOT and some of the Nerds ad Scoundrels subclass guides. I prefer RPGBOT because of the color coordination and format, to be honest. I just have to trust in myself and be the best I can be for the party!
I have found the ability to twin healing spells and buffs makes other party members really protective of you, while you can still dish out damage if needed.
Being able to pick the best spells form 2 spell lists makes divine soul pretty amazing.
Sorcerers don't have the many options for concentration or bonus actions, especially for lower leveled slots.
0 Guidance (this is the best utility cantrip in the game) 1 Bless, healing word 2 spiritual weapon 3 Aura of vitality, 10 rounds of 2d6 healing. At some point that might even be good enough to not cast empowered fireball with that slot.
And favored by the gods is absolutely clutch and will save you when you need it most time and time again.
I'm not sure when I'll need to take Healing Word, since both Absorb Elements and Shield are great defensive options, and Guiding Bolt is probably the best offensive option for now. Spiritual Weapon also looks fun too. I'm currently at 3rd level btw.
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Hi. So I'm wondering about the Divine Soul sorcerer, since I have a Satyr sorcerer prepared as a backup. The extra cleric spells seems a little daunting, and complicated and I don't know if it actually adds much to the sorcerer aside from notables like Guiding Bolt and Shield of Faith. What's good about the Divine Soul, and why should I/should I not pick it over other bloodlines? Thanks in advance to everyone who responds!
The Divine Soul is a double edged sword in my opinion. On the one hand it greatly increases the spell list for the Sorcerer but on the other hand the Sorcerer is also the class that learns a very limited number of spells when compared to other full casters like the Bard or the Wizard.
The Divine Soul opens up an interesting playstyle, that of the healing blaster. However you will never be able to get the best of both worlds leaving you in a awkward state of being not quite as powerful as a blaster mage and not quite as good as a dedicated healer either. Although with Metamagic and a big pool or sorcery points you can pull off some truly memorable and crazy shit lol.
Healing blaster? Like you said, I don't think I'll be quite as a good as a dedicated healer, but when I do need to heal, I guess Empowered Healing can help for bad rolls. I'll mostly just be a blaster, to be honest, and leave the healing to another party member. I think the extra Cleric list helps, but it seems very complicated to manage that and the Sorcerer spell list, and I haven't found any guides for a Divine Soul regarding the spell list.
Well if it helps this was the spell list I was planning on for my Divine Soul Sorcerer that I haven't had a chance to play yet:
Level 1: Absorb Elements, Healing Word, Bless, Shield, Protection from Evil and Good
Level 2: Aid, Misty Step, Prayer of Healing, Spiritual Weapon, Suggestion, Lesser Restoration
Level 3: Counterspell, Fireball, Haste, Fly, Hypnotic Pattern, Mass Healing Word, Spirit Guardians, Dispel Magic
Level 4: Banishment, Death Ward, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Polymorph
Level 5: Animate Objects, Dominate Person, Greater Restoration, Hold Monster, Raise Dead
Level 6: Heal, Mass Suggestion
Level 7: Resurrection, Planeshift/Teleport
Level 8: Antimagic Field, Dominate Monster, Holy Aura
Level 9: Wish
It needs a lot of trimming but the bulk of the spells that I plan to learn will come from this list.
Those all look like really good spells! I'll probably use that as a template and replace some of the spells with what I think suits me.
But, should I go with Shield, Shield of Faith, or Sanctuary? They all seem really good, especially the latter two for protecting allies. Or should I just focus on myself and use Shield?
Also, should I be taking any feats?
I enjoyed playing a Divine Soul. I actually didn't take a lot of healing spells. Healing Word is good if your cleric is down and you need to keep yourself and other party members alive. Spiritual Weapon is great at lower levels because once it's cast its up and you can cast a cantrip and then hit something over the head. Toll the Dead and Spiritual Weapon are fun to use together.
Take Shield if other party members have good ways to protect themselves. If you have a cleric leave Shield of Faith or Sanctuary to them. Remember a cleric can change out spells after every long rest and you can't. Don't clutter your spells known list up with stuff another party member can do better.
As for everything else? Why do you want to play Divine Soul? Do you have a character concept in mind? Do you want to be able to heal yourself as needed? Do you want to back up the party's cleric? What you want to do with the class will determine what spells you take. Our party had a cleric and a bard with healing spells so there wasn't a lot of pressure on me to take a lot of healing spells. Clerics have some devastating damage spells though like Guiding Bolt and Inflict Wounds (don't know if you would want to get that close though).
The only thing complicated about having the full cleric list available to you is that having two lists and few spells known is that you can feel overwhelmed. It helped me to remember that I was a sorcerer. Full stop. I was not a cleric or a half cleric. That meant not taking spells that would put me in melee range (you would be surprised how quickly that cuts down your list of desirable cleric spells). It meant thinking of cleric spells as nice to have but not cluttering up my spells known with cleric spells that were more for flavor than anything else. Prayer of Healing is one of those. It takes 10 minutes to cast so you can't do it until after the party finishes combat and by then your cleric or bard will have that covered and you will be taking a short rest and rolling hit dice anyway.
If you are looking at Divine Soul because of the extra spells available I would take a look at Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul. You get origin spells that are very useful and add the flavor you are looking for. I'm playing Aberrant Mind right now and loving it.
If you have a odd Charisma stat then Fey Touched is worth a look, you learn Misty Step and a level 1 spell like Bless (which frees up your Bless spot so you can switch it to another spell)
And I would probably stick with Shield, since you can't help anybody if you are dead lol.
I actually have a concept in mind as a backstory. I found somewhere in a wiki that Hanali Celanil and a few other gods sometimes used satyrs as messengers and agents. So, my Satyr was born out of a bloodline that was blessed by Hanali Celanil for serving her as agents and messengers. Unfortunately, they were cast out of Arvandor because they kept pulling pranks on some of the gods there by Hyrsam's influence. But, for some reason the goddess who blessed them did not revoke this divine power. This power is sporadic and very unpredictable. It can take multiple generations to awaken, or multiple family members could be born with it at the same time. The satyr who I created, was lucky enough to be born with it.
I am planning to be just a damage caster with a few defensive spells, as my party has two wizards, so they could cover us in utility and stuff like that. Why wouldn't I want to go with Guiding Bolt or Inflict Wounds, they seem great! We don't have any clerics, unfortunately.
I picked Divine Soul because I couldn't think of backstories that worked with those two classes, to be honest.
What a great concept! Love it!
What are your metamagics going to be? You want to choose spells that work with them. Twinning Guiding Bolt is fun and useful if both hit. I know a lot of Divine Souls take Extend so they don't have to get close to cast spells. I didn't but I understand the logic. Also since there are no clerics and you will probably have access to the most healing spells you may feel under pressure to take more of them to support the party. Just a warning.
You will have more cantrips available to you as a sorcerer so take advantage of it. Clerics have some good utility spells but they also have, guidance, toll the dead and sacred flame. A couple of those plus firebolt will have you covered.
As far as feats go, I think they are nice to have but not really necessary. Fey touched is great for Misty Step which is a full caster's best friend. Elemental Adapt can be good if you are thinking of taking elemental spells. Magic initiate will give you spells you might not get (Eldritch Blast, anyone?). I don't think War Caster is worth it for a sorcerer since you have proficiency on Con saves but some people like it. Resilient is overlooked but can be good since sorcerers don't have a strong hit die.
You have two wizards. Depending on their schools they may have a lot of damage spells available to them as well. The wizard list is more extensive than the sorcerer list and they can change spells out after every long rest meaning they will usually have something up their sleeve for any situation your party finds itself in.
Your advantage will be access to radiant damage. I know. playing an Aberrant Mind means I can't cast guiding bolt and I really miss having it.
I'm planning for my Metamagic types to be Quickened, Twinned, Empowered, and Heightened. They all seem really good, but I'm still not sure which metamagic I'll get for the corresponding levels.
I am planning for my Cantrip list to be: Guidance, Mage Hand, Sacred Flame, and Mind Sliver. I think this is a good mix of damage and utility.
I'll probably get Magic Initiate at lvl 4, just for Eldritch Blast, Chill Touch, and Hex. After that, I'll focus on ASIs and max my CHA, DEX, and CON.
One of the wizards are planning to go Necromancy, for the other one I'm not so sure. Yeah, I shouldn't really worry about not contributing to the party, since I'll be the only one with radiant damage and a few support spells.
You can get Chill Touch at Level 4 without magic initiate as sorcerers get an extra cantrip at Level 4. Also if you play with the optional rules in Tasha's you can change a cantrip out at every level you would get an ASI (you can also change one of your metamagics).
Quickened and Heightened are both expensive at lower levels. You will burn through them very quickly. Twinned is my favorite at low levels because you can twin a cantrip or level 1 spell for a measly 1 Sp. Of course Twinned gets more expensive if you want to twin a spell of level 3 or higher. I took Heightened as one of my first metamagics and didn't use it much until I got to higher levels and really needed to force disadvantage for spells like Banishment. I didn't take Quickened until Level 11 when my cantrips could do a respectable amount of damage and I had access to Sunbeam.
Don't underestimate Subtle. It's cheap and there is nothing like being able to Subtle counterspell or being the only caster able to sling spells if you get hit with a silence spell.
But you know your party, campaign and DM best so do whatever you think will work for you and have fun.
Oh. Then I'm not sure if I wanna get Magic Initiate, since you're forced to grab 2 cantrips. That sucks :(
Alright, I'll get twinned first, then quickened, then heightened, then subtle. I think that should work. Final question, can you twin Fireball? (Nvm, donn't answer, I looked at the Twinned metamagic and it doesn't work.) If so, that's terrifying. If not, then thank you for your help! It's really appreciated!
You could also get spell sniper , if that suits your fancy. It also has the added benefit of increasing your spell attack range, which might be useful to you.
But back on topic, I find Divine Soul to be a very interesting subclass. Thematically, the idea of an arcane spellcaster deriving their power from some divine source is very cool to me, and offers some interesting roleplay interactions with other characters who have divine power sources. Mechanically, I'd say it's about what everyone else says, balancing the the role of healer and blaster, somewhat akin to Celestial Warlocks. You could argue that it's main weakness is that it isn't as hard hitting as other sorcerer classes, but it has much more versatility than them to compensate, allowing you to sort of fill a nice all-arounder role in your party. And lets not underestimate the ability to apply metamagic to the support spells and radiant spells from the cleric spell list. A twinned casting of Healing Word, a Distant casting of Greater/Lesser Restoration. You may have less spells at your disposal, but your potential as a support character might actually be higher than many Cleric domains, depending on how creative you are with your Metamagic.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Spell Sniper sounds like a good choice, especially for hard hitting spells like Guiding Bolt. I'll consider it, thank you for the suggestion.
Yeah, Divine Souls in my opinion have the most potential for roleplaying hooks, backstories, and interactions with other characters who possess divine power, including clerics and paladins. The entire reason I picked them over the less complicated (and arguably better?) Abberant Mind, Shadow Magic, and Draconic Soul origins was because I felt they had the most role-playing potential out of them all, to be honest. (I also couldn't decide if I wanted to play between a Twilight Cleric or a Shadow Magic Sorcerer, so this was the compromise.) Yeah, with the added Cleric spell list I feel like they have some of the best versatility for all classes. Both spell lists are pretty goo and if used smartly, can contribute a lot to the party. I'm just worried I'll be overwhelmed or make some choices that don't benefit to the party at all. And sometimes I feel like I'm min/maxxing, picking the best races for classes that hardly have any hooks or well crafted backstories. I just feel stressed :(
Sorcerer can be a stressful class to play because of the limited number of spells known and the need to make sure you get the most out of your metamagic.
There are a lot of good guides out there that I found really helpful when I started. You will do great. Once you play you will discover that playing a Divine Soul is lots of fun and your party will be amazed by what you can do. The first time I twinned guiding bolt, I got lucky and both hit both targets.The other players were very impressed. Remember, if you are not getting any use out of a spell you can change it when you level up. It's like any other class, play it smartly and creatively and you will be an asset to the party.
At the end of the day, just pick what seems fun to you. It's your character, and as long as you're not being actively detrimental to your party most people won't complain.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Yeah, I looked at some guides which included RPGBOT and some of the Nerds ad Scoundrels subclass guides. I prefer RPGBOT because of the color coordination and format, to be honest. I just have to trust in myself and be the best I can be for the party!
I have found the ability to twin healing spells and buffs makes other party members really protective of you, while you can still dish out damage if needed.
Your neighboorhood neutral good divine soul gish
Being able to pick the best spells form 2 spell lists makes divine soul pretty amazing.
Sorcerers don't have the many options for concentration or bonus actions, especially for lower leveled slots.
0 Guidance (this is the best utility cantrip in the game)
1 Bless, healing word
2 spiritual weapon
3 Aura of vitality, 10 rounds of 2d6 healing. At some point that might even be good enough to not cast empowered fireball with that slot.
And favored by the gods is absolutely clutch and will save you when you need it most time and time again.
I'm not sure when I'll need to take Healing Word, since both Absorb Elements and Shield are great defensive options, and Guiding Bolt is probably the best offensive option for now. Spiritual Weapon also looks fun too. I'm currently at 3rd level btw.