for particular reasons of planning i won't bore anyone with, i was going to drop hex at 4 to spend that concentration on bless (fey touched). but now it might be a good idea to drop it at 3, and to have 1 level's worth of no combat-opening buffs (lone caster/support).
does hex stay significant at 3? i'm definitely not keeping it at 4, and if i don't get rid of it, Ill have to wait to take Shatter (probably no other aoe in party).
Hex doesn't ever really "drop off" because its damage adds to every attack that hits. Assuming you've got Eldritch Blast, you'll get a 2nd attack at 5th level, a 3rd at 11th, and a 4th at 17th. There are a number of ways to get a 5th attack. Fathomless Warlocks can attack with Tentacle of the Deeps on their bonus action at 1st level; combo-ing this with Hex requiring two turns, but it's possible. Any Warlock can get Crown of Stars as a Mystic Arcanum at 13th level, and after the first shot (which requires an action), make a bonus action attack with it. Again, this takes two turns to set up a combo with Hex, but it's worth doing.
My last Warlock character used EB, Crown of Stars, and Hex to deal up to 4d10+4d12+5d6+20 in a round. 17th level and Hex was still a thing because he was doing 5 attacks per round.
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Behind every successful Warlock, there's an angry mob.
Hex is rarely bad. It just becomes higher level spells just do more and hex doesn’t scale with spell levels. It often becomes a matter of justifying a 3rd level slot on it. Replace hex when something you need turns up or something gives you more mileage. and that is build dependant.
technically speaking higher level slots do mean you concentrate for 8 hours so in theory you could cast it at the start of the day on a small creature, kill it, and hold that concentration and take a short rest. Spell is still up and you can just bonus action move it
Hex is overrated at just about any point in the game unless you are leveraging the disadvantage to ability checks or have picked up invocations to supplement it. It's big advantage is it's ease of use and potentially carrying it over a SR but past that ~2.3 damage per roll doesn't even start meeting the criteria of a decent return until after 4 success hits.
Compare it to something like hellish rebuke which is often an overlooked pick on the warlock. By the time you have better uses for your slots it's probably added at least twice as much damage as hex plus the benefit of having some soft punishment for damaging you.
**~2.3 damage is assuming 60% chance of hit.**
Ehh not sure sure on that. The thing about hex is it is a bonus action. Warlocks tend to not have too many bonus action things outside of hex blades. Reactions can be VERY useful and if you ever get warcaster, burning a reaction on hellish seems real costly for not all that much.
Hex also applies to crits which is always nice.
Hellish rebuke always feels a bit of a trap spell to me. It burns a reaction and sure the damage is ok, but man having reactions for other things always feels better to me. That and the save for half means it doesn’t take long for hex to well go past that in damage, even at level 5. Sure when your coasting 5th levels it outdoes it but at that point…. Synaptic static
don’t get me wrong there are straight better spells than hex. But these are mostly cc spells, hypnotic pattern, fear, things like that, or big aoe spells. But hex is never a bad thing. Especially when you can get free casts of it from things like fey touched. It’s just a matter of, are you going to get more mileage out of something else at this point. If you are a fiend warlock and get fireball, it becomes real hard to keep that d6 hex even with eldritch blast.
Hex being good or not really depends on your playstyle. If you need to concentrate on other spells then its usefulness is severely limited to the point of almost useless. However if your playstyle is to open combat with a big damaging spell like Fireball (Fiend Patron) or Synaptic Static then Hex becomes much more valuable due to its long duration. Provided you stay out of harm's way 1 Hex cast with a 3rd level or higher spell slot can last most if not the entire adventuring day.
And for a class that does not see a third spell slot until level 11. Having a little bonus to your damage all day for just 1 spell slot is a pretty good bargain. But like I said it depends on how you want to play your Warlock.
Since you have bless, it is very likely that it will outpace Hex quickly. Both are combat length uses of your concentration. The big difference is that bless helps other party members, and hex can last more than one combat. If you have another party member where the ability score check portion of hex is useful it might be something that stays relevant longer. If you have many combats per short rest hex gains in usefulness as its ability to go between multiple combats becomes important for stretching your two slots.
One thing I have noticed is that on a tome pact warlock, hex is rarely kept between combats. Ritual casting requires your concentration, so if you want to detect magic or ritual something in between combats you lose your hex.
I found Hex gets passed by around level 4. Once you get 3rd level spells, there is an allure to having it stack on that second EB shot. But dropping a 3rd level slot for Hex is not economical, at least in my experience.
I multi-classed with Bard at level 6, and thought that the level 1 Bard spell slots would be a good use of Hex. I found quickly that Healing Word, Inspiration dice, and Misty Step were using my bonus action far more often.
Warlocks tend to not have too many bonus action things outside of hex blades.
Other newer patrons -- Undead, Fathomless, Celestial-- also have strong 1st-level bonus action features
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Speaking of patrons what patron/pact path are you looking at? If you are shooting to be the lone caster and covering support and AoEs it's going take some planning to make sure you can stretch that thin without leaving holes.
i'm undead lvl 2, about to level up into tomelock, and i'm gonna switch in ancient secrets with detect magic and find familiar, to pair with the eldritch mind invocation.
i'd rather try to get all my rituals into the book earlier, and also would like to both add and switch a spell if it's wise at each level.
Because I'm support, and we're playing Witchlight in what's meant to be a combat-light campaign, I'm looking at switching out HexC for Shatter, and I'll just have level 3 be light on concentration. Until I can take BlessC at 4 with Fey Touched. (We've had 3 fights in 7 sessions.)
[Oh here's a fun wrinkle, not really at issue: my character is unaware of Form of Dread so far. The pc lost the memory of his bond ages ago, so I told the dm it would be cool if he didn't know that he has the ability, and the dm could trigger it for the first time herself when whatever condition is met. So effectively until whatever unknown trigger happens, I actually do not have Formof Dread. But I don't mind that part.]
Speaking of patrons what patron/pact path are you looking at? If you are shooting to be the lone caster and covering support and AoEs it's going take some planning to make sure you can stretch that thin without leaving holes.
i'm undead lvl 2, about to level up into tomelock, and i'm gonna switch in ancient secrets with detect magic and find familiar, to pair with the eldritch mind invocation.
i'd rather try to get all my rituals into the book earlier, and also would like to both add and switch a spell if it's wise at each level.
Because I'm support, and we're playing Witchlight in what's meant to be a combat-light campaign, I'm looking at switching out HexC for Shatter, and I'll just have level 3 be light on concentration. Until I can take BlessC at 4 with Fey Touched. (We've had 3 fights in 7 sessions.)
[Oh here's a fun wrinkle, not really at issue: my character is unaware of Form of Dread so far. The pc lost the memory of his bond ages ago, so I told the dm it would be cool if he didn't know that he has the ability, and the dm could trigger it for the first time herself when whatever condition is met. So effectively until whatever unknown trigger happens, I actually do not have Formof Dread. But I don't mind that part.]
Sounds fun. Undead+ tome is a fun combo. Careful with ritual casting and concentration but past that I don't see many issues popping up.
I've found that I cast Hex more than I cast Shatter. Yes it's an early AOE, but it just has too many downsides compared to Hex.
interesting, how so?
we've only had 1 gnarly fight out of the 3 so far, i used hex but i probably cast it on the wrong fella (we were rusty). that said if i had Shatter then it woulda helped much more it seems. also we have a laid back dm. but yeah, go on about those thoughts, I'm interested.
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for particular reasons of planning i won't bore anyone with, i was going to drop hex at 4 to spend that concentration on bless (fey touched). but now it might be a good idea to drop it at 3, and to have 1 level's worth of no combat-opening buffs (lone caster/support).
does hex stay significant at 3? i'm definitely not keeping it at 4, and if i don't get rid of it, Ill have to wait to take Shatter (probably no other aoe in party).
any thoughts appreciated :)
Hex doesn't ever really "drop off" because its damage adds to every attack that hits. Assuming you've got Eldritch Blast, you'll get a 2nd attack at 5th level, a 3rd at 11th, and a 4th at 17th. There are a number of ways to get a 5th attack. Fathomless Warlocks can attack with Tentacle of the Deeps on their bonus action at 1st level; combo-ing this with Hex requiring two turns, but it's possible. Any Warlock can get Crown of Stars as a Mystic Arcanum at 13th level, and after the first shot (which requires an action), make a bonus action attack with it. Again, this takes two turns to set up a combo with Hex, but it's worth doing.
My last Warlock character used EB, Crown of Stars, and Hex to deal up to 4d10+4d12+5d6+20 in a round. 17th level and Hex was still a thing because he was doing 5 attacks per round.
Behind every successful Warlock, there's an angry mob.
Hex is rarely bad. It just becomes higher level spells just do more and hex doesn’t scale with spell levels. It often becomes a matter of justifying a 3rd level slot on it. Replace hex when something you need turns up or something gives you more mileage. and that is build dependant.
technically speaking higher level slots do mean you concentrate for 8 hours so in theory you could cast it at the start of the day on a small creature, kill it, and hold that concentration and take a short rest. Spell is still up and you can just bonus action move it
Ehh not sure sure on that. The thing about hex is it is a bonus action. Warlocks tend to not have too many bonus action things outside of hex blades. Reactions can be VERY useful and if you ever get warcaster, burning a reaction on hellish seems real costly for not all that much.
Hex also applies to crits which is always nice.
Hellish rebuke always feels a bit of a trap spell to me. It burns a reaction and sure the damage is ok, but man having reactions for other things always feels better to me. That and the save for half means it doesn’t take long for hex to well go past that in damage, even at level 5. Sure when your coasting 5th levels it outdoes it but at that point…. Synaptic static
don’t get me wrong there are straight better spells than hex. But these are mostly cc spells, hypnotic pattern, fear, things like that, or big aoe spells. But hex is never a bad thing. Especially when you can get free casts of it from things like fey touched. It’s just a matter of, are you going to get more mileage out of something else at this point. If you are a fiend warlock and get fireball, it becomes real hard to keep that d6 hex even with eldritch blast.
Hex being good or not really depends on your playstyle. If you need to concentrate on other spells then its usefulness is severely limited to the point of almost useless. However if your playstyle is to open combat with a big damaging spell like Fireball (Fiend Patron) or Synaptic Static then Hex becomes much more valuable due to its long duration. Provided you stay out of harm's way 1 Hex cast with a 3rd level or higher spell slot can last most if not the entire adventuring day.
And for a class that does not see a third spell slot until level 11. Having a little bonus to your damage all day for just 1 spell slot is a pretty good bargain. But like I said it depends on how you want to play your Warlock.
Since you have bless, it is very likely that it will outpace Hex quickly. Both are combat length uses of your concentration. The big difference is that bless helps other party members, and hex can last more than one combat. If you have another party member where the ability score check portion of hex is useful it might be something that stays relevant longer. If you have many combats per short rest hex gains in usefulness as its ability to go between multiple combats becomes important for stretching your two slots.
One thing I have noticed is that on a tome pact warlock, hex is rarely kept between combats. Ritual casting requires your concentration, so if you want to detect magic or ritual something in between combats you lose your hex.
I found Hex gets passed by around level 4. Once you get 3rd level spells, there is an allure to having it stack on that second EB shot. But dropping a 3rd level slot for Hex is not economical, at least in my experience.
I multi-classed with Bard at level 6, and thought that the level 1 Bard spell slots would be a good use of Hex. I found quickly that Healing Word, Inspiration dice, and Misty Step were using my bonus action far more often.
Hex remains useful level 1-20 due to its long duration and the disadvantage mechanic.
However unless you get it through a feat (Magic initiate, Fey Touched), I would get rid of it no later than level 5 because it does not scale well.
I drop Hex at fourth, but then take it back with Fey Touched. It always has its uses.
oh wow, great thoughts, thanks everyone. really helpful :)
Other newer patrons -- Undead, Fathomless, Celestial-- also have strong 1st-level bonus action features
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
i'm undead lvl 2, about to level up into tomelock, and i'm gonna switch in ancient secrets with detect magic and find familiar, to pair with the eldritch mind invocation.
i'd rather try to get all my rituals into the book earlier, and also would like to both add and switch a spell if it's wise at each level.
so at lvl 3 it's looking like:
EB, Mage Hand, GuidanceC, Mending, Light
RComprehend, RUnseen Servant, Shatter, InvisibilityC
(Ancient Secrets) RDetect Magic, RFind Familiar
(Eldritch Mind)
Because I'm support, and we're playing Witchlight in what's meant to be a combat-light campaign, I'm looking at switching out HexC for Shatter, and I'll just have level 3 be light on concentration. Until I can take BlessC at 4 with Fey Touched. (We've had 3 fights in 7 sessions.)
[Oh here's a fun wrinkle, not really at issue: my character is unaware of Form of Dread so far. The pc lost the memory of his bond ages ago, so I told the dm it would be cool if he didn't know that he has the ability, and the dm could trigger it for the first time herself when whatever condition is met. So effectively until whatever unknown trigger happens, I actually do not have Form of Dread. But I don't mind that part.]
If you're a hexlock focused on melee, then once you can cast Spirit Shroud, Hex becomes less appealing: d8 for each damage roll vs d6.
I've found that I cast Hex more than I cast Shatter. Yes it's an early AOE, but it just has too many downsides compared to Hex.
thanks stout, makes me feel less trepidatious :)
interesting, how so?
we've only had 1 gnarly fight out of the 3 so far, i used hex but i probably cast it on the wrong fella (we were rusty). that said if i had Shatter then it woulda helped much more it seems. also we have a laid back dm. but yeah, go on about those thoughts, I'm interested.