I have a tempest cleric who will be doing a 1-level Fathomless Warlock dip. She might go more warlock after level 9 (8cleric/1warlock). The character has a 14 Charisma which will not go any higher. She also has S16, C12, W16
The character is basically a tempest cleric tank build. I am going to use booming blade and heavy armor and be front line kind of guy with spells. I am going to get Armor of Agathys for one spell, but I am wondering Hellish Rebuke vs Hex for my other Warlock spell.
Is better getting hex to add 1d6 to attacks (along with 1d6 to spiritual weapon and tentacle attacks) or better to get the hellish rebuke to punish guys who hit me. I can upcast HR with cleric slots too.
Another thing worth noting is she has warcaster, which should help some on concentration saves, but she does not have constitution proficiency.
Hex doesn't synergize that well with Spiritual Weapon and Tentacle attacks. Why? They all need a bonus action. It's great if you're only focusing on one enemy, but it takes one round to set up. Also, as soon as you have to move your hex you cannot use your tentacle or spiritual weapon. Tentacle is potent for the movement control. Hex has a debuff that can be useful, but if you're not going to provoke any skill checks from the opponent, it's not that important anyway. Also, as a Cleric you have access to one of - if not the - best 1st level concentration spell anyway: Bless. Considering it also heightens your chance to hit with your bonus action tentacle or spiritual weapon that's a boost do your damage as well - not to mention the boost to your team.
Considering Hellish Rebuke: While it might not be the most efficient use for your spell slots, it definitely sounds like fun and fitting in with the playstyle. With Tempest Cleric you always get a similar feature from Wrath of the Storm, so it's playing in nicely with the thematic.
It's not like 1st level Warlock spells are that great overall.
Tempest cleric gets wrath of the storm, which is a lot like hellish rebuke, as a class feature, then at level 6, you can push the away from you in addition to hurting them. Seems like hellish rebuke would be redundant.
Tempest cleric gets wrath of the storm, which is a lot like hellish rebuke, as a class feature, then at level 6, you can push the away from you in addition to hurting them. Seems like hellish rebuke would be redundant.
That is tied to wisdom, which means only 3 times a day until 12th level on this particular character. Also it only works on targets within 5 feet that hit with an attack. HR works on enemies out to 60 feet who damage you by any method.
Tempest cleric gets wrath of the storm, which is a lot like hellish rebuke, as a class feature, then at level 6, you can push the away from you in addition to hurting them. Seems like hellish rebuke would be redundant.
That is tied to wisdom, which means only 3 times a day until 12th level on this particular character. Also it only works on targets within 5 feet that hit with an attack. HR works on enemies out to 60 feet who damage you by any method.
All true. But wrath doesn't use any spell slots. And since most combats last only 3 rounds, and you won't likely be attacked every single round, you probably won't run out, unless you're actually having that mythical ideal of 6 fights a day. And wrath lets you choose between two damage types, while rebuke does more damage, but fire is more commonly resisted, so I don't know where that leaves it. As always, its about trade-offs, I suppose.
Hex is a garbage spell, and hellish rebuke is only slightly better. If you're already a cleric you have so many better concentration spell options like Bless, Hold Person, or Spirit Guardians. I'd say the best option for you to take would be Protection from Evil and Good, unless you know you aren't going to be fighting any of those creature types. Thunderwave from the Fathomless list is also maybe worthwhile for the Tempest synergy.
Hex only gives you at best 2d6 extra damage, which averages quite low when you actually start to apply chance to hit percentages. Your strength/charisma aren't really that high and that adds up, realistically the average damage off of hex is more likely close to around 4 or 5 after factoring that stuff into it.
Hellish Rebuke isn't that much better either damage wise, but has a better comparative opportunity cost. Ideally you never get hit or minimize the odds of getting hit, but if you aren't spending your reactions on anything else anyway then it's basically a free action. It still isn't really GOOD, it's a first level slot for an average of 10-11 damage if the creature fails, so realistically it's more like 7 if you factor in the fail chance. Combine that with how common fire resistance/immunity is.
Protection from Evil and Good is basically a +5 AC against creatures it applies against. Charmed and Frightened are niche but still pretty effective debuffs that it helps you avoid when it applies as well.
Thunderwave is only really worth looking at as an option for maximizing damage against a group of enemies. There are some teamwork/terrain dependent situations where the spell becomes a lot better but that's more campaign dependent.
Bless is the best option though and should be used during most combats. Average +2 bonus to hits and saves is basically a +10% success chance to nearly everything that happens in a combat, and you get to spread that around to a lot of party members to make them like you more. Target yourself for a bonus on the concentration save to maintain it, and help you survive spellcasters blasting you for being in melee.
TBH the problem is that base warlock has one of the worst spell lists in the game if you ignore EB. I'd argue it's worse than the Bard in most meaningful aspects before magic secrets even factor into it.
TBH the problem is that base warlock has one of the worst spell lists in the game if you ignore EB. I'd argue it's worse than the Bard in most meaningful aspects before magic secrets even factor into it.
Wait, you're saying Bards have a horrible spell list? Thems fightin' words! Bards have pretty reasonable flexibility: healing, buffing, mind control, debuffing, divination, even some abjuration. How dare you insult the Bard spell list. In fact, i would almost argue that Bards have a better spell list overall than base Clerics.
Regarding OP's question, Hex is not a bad spell, esp if you want really want a creature to fail a particular ability check. The 1d6 isn't great by itself unless you have a way to "attack" a creature multiple times per round. For a Cleric, the damage is mostly frosting. If, however, you plan on taking some control spells that depend on ability checks, then it could be useful. Unfortunately, most Cleric spells are a bit lacking in the Control Department.
Hex is a garbage spell, and hellish rebuke is only slightly better. If you're already a cleric you have so many better concentration spell options like Bless, Hold Person, or Spirit Guardians. I'd say the best option for you to take would be Protection from Evil and Good, unless you know you aren't going to be fighting any of those creature types. Thunderwave from the Fathomless list is also maybe worthwhile for the Tempest synergy.
I am not a fan of bless on a melee oriented front-line cleric. It takes an action to cast which means it often is gone before you even get to use your bonus action. Hex is much better in my play style, mostly because of the bonus action cast. Among 1st level spells shield of faith is better too.
I don't see myself using Spirit Guardians much with upcast Thunderwave and Call Lightning available. Can't see when that delayed damage would be a good idea. I also have dissonant Whispers through Fey Touched that can be upcast for 5d6 and on a failed saves causes a warcaster booming blade reaction that I can land max thunder damage on. Maybe if I had Sentinel or something that I could force enemies to stay in the AOE but I think the other spells at my disposal will play a lot better than SG will.
Hex only gives you at best 2d6 extra damage, which averages quite low when you actually start to apply chance to hit percentages. Your strength/charisma aren't really that high and that adds up, realistically the average damage off of hex is more likely close to around 4 or 5 after factoring that stuff into it.
It is actually only 1d6 with a melee weapon. The disadvantage on ability checks with Hex is pretty good though and the fact the spell can last up to an hour is a nice bonus.
Hellish Rebuke isn't that much better either damage wise, but has a better comparative opportunity cost. Ideally you never get hit or minimize the odds of getting hit, but if you aren't spending your reactions on anything else anyway then it's basically a free action. It still isn't really GOOD, it's a first level slot for an average of 10-11 damage if the creature fails, so realistically it's more like 7 if you factor in the fail chance. Combine that with how common fire resistance/immunity is.
No but it is another damaging option. The key here is punishing enemies for hitting and another thing worth mentioning is how good this is on low hp enemies. It can take them out of the game off turn. HR also upcasts very well. I have wrathful storm as well, so HR would only be used when I ran out of uses on that or when the enemy hit me from range.
Protection from Evil and Good is basically a +5 AC against creatures it applies against. Charmed and Frightened are niche but still pretty effective debuffs that it helps you avoid when it applies as well.
Protection from good and evil is a great spell. Only downside there is the Material component. That is already on the cleric list though, so not much reason to get it as a Warlock.
Thunderwave is only really worth looking at as an option for maximizing damage against a group of enemies. There are some teamwork/terrain dependent situations where the spell becomes a lot better but that's more campaign dependent.
Thunderwave is on the Tempest list already, so I always have that prepared and it is GREAT when combined with the destructive wrath. Usually I will be upcasting Thunderwave though, not doing it at 1st level on a warlock slot.
FWIW I ended up picking HR because while Hex is a great spell, it has material components and this will be a sword and board cleric. With warcaster the somatic components of Hellish Rebuke are no big deal, and cleric spells with material components are easy too because I can use the shield. However with Hex being a warlock spell it would be difficult to make work unless I used a quarterstaff. If I get a magical staff down the road though it would be an option on a future spell.
Only points I'm going to disagree on is the Spirit Guardians being worse than Call Lightning or Thunderwave, that Bless is a poor choice for someone in melee, Hex is worth taking for the reasons you mentioned, and that Protection from Evil and Good isn't worth taking.
On the Bless thing. If we assume it is just a +2 to all the rolls, that's still a +10% to average damage to anyone affected that uses attack rolls. Pretending for a moment that you have someone doing sharpshooter/gwm stuff and have an average DPS of 40, that's an extra 8 average damage. That plus the fact you are making them/yourself 10% more likely to succeed on any saves against spells or random monster effects makes it better than Shield of Faith which only gives a single person an extra 10% dodge chance. Is it worthwhile to reset it while in the midst of a melee? Probably not, but it is a great spell to use before rushing into combat or as you are closing into melee range.
Spiritual Guardians VS Upcast Thunderwave/Call Lightning I think that Thunderwave is sort of a different niche, but it easily blows Call Lightning out of the water. Upcasted Thunderwave using a 3rd level spell slot is only 4d8 or a maximized 32 damage to a cluster of enemies directly in front of you in a cube, it isn't great when you are dealing with a swarm of enemies that are surrounding you. Call Lightning is an action to use for 3d10 for an average 16 damage assuming they fail, which brings that down a lot more to something like 11ish average per enemy in the space. The radius of impact also isn't really that great for swarms, since the furthest it goes is a 15 foot cube (which is basically the same as thunderwave but at range). It might be worth using if you are staying at range away from the enemy, but you said before you were a frontliner cleric, rather than a blaster. Spiritual Guardians will apply it's damage to anything that gets caught in your space including when they run into it, that means that you can ensure any enemy approaching your respectable 15 ft aura will take damage. It's also important to remember that ANY creature in your aura has it's speed halved (which stacks with difficult terrain). It scales far better by hitting a much larger zone worth of enemies even if it does slightly less damage, and actually helps prevent enemies from escaping from you with their speed halved. It also doesn't take any actions from you to maintain it, so you can just add whatever damage you get from Spiritual Guardians to your Booming Blade shenanigans. Even if you spend a maximized damage on Call Lightning it will quickly drop average DPR and be overtaken by Spiritual Guardians over the course of a few rounds, faster if you are dealing with a larger swarm of enemies. It's also worth considering the possible synergy of it if you combine it along with Thuderwave and your 6th level feature, pushing them 20 ft away from you means they won't be able to actually get within 5 ft of you on their turn since the movement is halved while in your zone, assuming they have a base 30 movement.
Hex sucks for you since it eats your concentration without actively doing very much without specific party synergy. If you have a grappler in your party or a druid who uses the handful of spells they have that uses skill checks instead of saves it's maybe worthwhile as a single target debuff but even then you'd be better off casting something a bit stronger. The "at best 2d6" was also accounting for your tentacle, which you can't even use to slow the opponent down the turn you reapply Hex.
An argument for Protection from Evil and Good despite it being on both lists is just that it's a better spell than Hex the vast majority of the time. It's a 25% dodge chance to whoever you are giving it to at the most basic level of helpfulness. I just went over why Hex is a bad spell that isn't even really worth taking on actual warlocks after the first few levels because it's so bad. Cleric has better general spell options so freeing up that memorization slot for something with greater impact is more worthwhile than a pretty weak spell that also competes with your better concentration spells. This is basically just an argument that you should do Hellish Rebuke + Protection from Evil and Good, since it is just flat out better than Hex in basically any combat scenario.
Something I didn't cover before but is probably worth stating, Armour of Agathys is pretty situation/campaign dependent but I think it's pretty trash for you unless you know you are just about to fight a bunch of really weak melee enemies. It only lasts around 2-3 hits with how much hp it gives you, and can only apply that damage if it's a melee attacker. This means it isn't doing it's job if you are attacked at range or by spellcasters, how much of a dealbreaker that ends up being just depends on how your DM builds encounters. I HAVE built a character that heavily used it (got heavy armour proficiency and the heavy armour master feat to make it go longer and was otherwise pure warlock) and unless we were fighting pathetic bandits in an alleyway it rarely made much of an impact.
Only points I'm going to disagree on is the Spirit Guardians being worse than Call Lightning or Thunderwave, that Bless is a poor choice for someone in melee, Hex is worth taking for the reasons you mentioned, and that Protection from Evil and Good isn't worth taking.
On a tempest Cleric Destructive Wrath Call Lighting does 30 points of damage to one enemy the turn you cast it, 30 points to an enemy on the following turn and 16.5 per turn to an enemy every turn thereafter . Destructive Wrath Thunderwave cast at 3rd level does 32 points of damage to everyone you get in the area of effect, in addition to pushing them back.
Spirit guardians does 0 damage on the turn you cast it and only 13.5 damage on the enemies turn to those who are inside or enter the area. It is going to be very rare it will keep up with those other spells.
On the Bless thing. If we assume it is just a +2 to all the rolls, that's still a +10% to average damage to anyone affected that uses attack rolls.
But you lose an entire turn. Again a 1st level thunderwave with destructive wrath can do a flat 16 to multiple opponents in the AOE. Dissonant Whispers at first level is 10.5, followed by a booming blade reaction attack that will do another 18+str at 5th level and 22.5+str at 8th level .... If I use destructive wrath I can increase that to 28.5 and 36.5 _str.
So that is about 40 points of damage I could be behind on turn 1. It is going to take a long time to make that up on +12.5% on hit rolls
Pretending for a moment that you have someone doing sharpshooter/gwm stuff and have an average DPS of 40, that's an extra 8 average damage.
That is not true, it is a mean 12.5% increase of base damage. If you are using sharpshooter, a longbow and 18 Dex (18.5 damage per hit) it will increase damage 2.3 per hit or 4.6 per turn with extra attack.
This is true regardless of AC unless you need higher than a 20 or lower than a 6 to hit
Spiritual Guardians VS Upcast Thunderwave/Call Lightning I think that Thunderwave is sort of a different niche, but it easily blows Call Lightning out of the water. Upcasted Thunderwave using a 3rd level spell slot is only 4d8 or a maximized 32 damage to a cluster of enemies directly in front of you in a cube, it isn't great when you are dealing with a swarm of enemies that are surrounding you. Call Lightning is an action to use for 3d10 for an average 16 damage assuming they fail, which brings that down a lot more to something like 11ish average per enemy in the space.
The character is a tempest cleric I can automatically do maximum damage on both thunderwave and call lighting (two times on call lighting at 6th level).
If enemies are surrounding you then you back up and cast thunderwave, that is almost perfect alignment and if either of the two that get AOOs hit you then you hit them with wrath of the storm. On the other hand if you are in melee surrounded and cast SG it is both a lot less damage and there is a good chance some of them will take no damage at all as the chance of holding on to concentration as you are attacked by 4+ different enemies each with multiattack is small.
Remember SG does not damage at all when you cast it, you need to hang on to concentration and keep them in the AOE to deal any damage at all and they get a save against it. In fairness they get a save against Thunderwave and Call Lightning too, but that is doing almost 3 times as much damage due to distructive wrath.
The radius of impact also isn't really that great for swarms, since the furthest it goes is a 15 foot cube (which is basically the same as thunderwave but at range). It might be worth using if you are staying at range away from the enemy, but you said before you were a frontliner cleric, rather than a blaster.
But it is a LOT more damage with CL. It will take 4 turns for SG to deal the damage I can deal in one turn with CL.
Spiritual Guardians will apply it's damage to anything that gets caught in your space including when they run into it, that means that you can ensure any enemy approaching your respectable 15 ft aura will take damage.
Yes and if they don't approach it I can't damage them. I can call down lighting on any point within 60 feet of where I centered it and deal damage every turn.
It also doesn't take any actions from you to maintain it, so you can just add whatever damage you get from Spiritual Guardians to your Booming Blade shenanigans.
The lack of follow on actions is a legit advantage from SG, but it is not enough to cover the massive difference in damage and you have to account for the lost turn too.
Also SG does no damage at all on the turn you cast it and if you lose concentration before the bad guys enter your area (or start their turn there) then it does no damage at all. So you are losing damage right off the bat on your turn too.
Even if you spend a maximized damage on Call Lightning it will quickly drop average DPR and be overtaken by Spiritual Guardians over the course of a few rounds, faster if you are dealing with a larger swarm of enemies.
In most battles it will never catch up to Call Lighting (assuming you can even keep up concentration):
Total Average Damage:
End of Turn 1- cast SG 0, cast CL 30
End of Turn 2 - Max Booming Blade (15.5)+SG (13.5) = 29, CL 60
End of Turn 3 - Max Booming Blade+SG 58, CL 76.5
End of Turn 4 - Booming Blade+SG 73.5, CL 93
End of Turn 5 - Booming Blade+SG 98.5, CL 109.5
End of Turn 6 - Booming Blade+SG 123.5, CL 126
End of Turn 7 - Booming Blade+SG 148.5, CL 142
So it is 7 turns before SG+cantrip passes CL and that is using your action every turn. Both of those examples used the same number of spell slots and the same number of Channel Divinity options. Moreover if you are in melee (which you will need to be with SG), you are pushing the limits to expect either of these to last 7 turns.
Now SG does have a larger area of effect, but you also can't position it at all, it is centered on you. So if you are in a bad spot, or you are grappled or restrained it still only effects those who start their turn in the AOE or move into it. I can move CL wherever I want to get the best effect, right next to me, far away from me, over to the guy that got through and is beating up the wizard. I can put it where the AOE is most effective. Also I will note the damage comparison above includes Booming Blade and that only ever hits one enemy.
Now at 8th level I get +1d8 on cantrips, which would make it 5 turns before BB+SG did more damage, but I also have 4th level slots and probably would have cast either using a 4th level slot getting an extra 20 points in the first two turns with CL.
Hex sucks for you since it eats your concentration without actively doing very much without specific party synergy. If you have a grappler in your party or a druid who uses the handful of spells they have that uses skill checks instead of saves it's maybe worthwhile as a single target debuff but even then you'd be better off casting something a bit stronger. The "at best 2d6" was also accounting for your tentacle, which you can't even use to slow the opponent down the turn you reapply Hex.
I love Hex in general I get it on most of my characters. I only have 2 tentacles a day, so I don't see a lot of competition there. It is unlikely I will be using them together unless I am already concentrating on Hex before the fight starts.
I myself use shove and grapple regularly and just about every Rogue uses hide regularly so there is almost always a good use for the disadvantage. The disadvantage is also really good in social situations if you can cast it from far away or have it up from a previous casting.
Anyway I did not get it and it is going to be at least level 10 (Cleric 8/Warlock 2) before I do, so it is kind of moot. If I find a magic staff (which solves the material component problem) I will probably take Hex at level 10. If I don't though I think I will get either cause fear or charm person.
An argument for Protection from Evil and Good despite it being on both lists is just that it's a better spell than Hex the vast majority of the time. It's a 25% dodge chance to whoever you are giving it to at the most basic level of helpfulness. I just went over why Hex is a bad spell that isn't even really worth taking on actual warlocks after the first few levels because it's so bad. Cleric has better general spell options so freeing up that memorization slot for something with greater impact is more worthwhile than a pretty weak spell that also competes with your better concentration spells. This is basically just an argument that you should do Hellish Rebuke + Protection from Evil and Good, since it is just flat out better than Hex in basically any combat scenario.
The 1st level Warlock spells I ended up getting are HR and Armor of Agathys.
PGE is awesome against fiends or undead etc. I think I am always going to have that prepared as a cleric though. There are not that many others I am going to want. Looking at level 9 (8 Cleric) I will probably have: PGE, HW, Sanctuary, aid, LR, silence, dispel magic, revify, Aura of Life plus my domain spells should be most of what I would want and I still have at least one left with those.
Something I didn't cover before but is probably worth stating, Armour of Agathys is pretty situation/campaign dependent but I think it's pretty trash for you unless you know you are just about to fight a bunch of really weak melee enemies. It only lasts around 2-3 hits with how much hp it gives you, and can only apply that damage if it's a melee attacker. This means it isn't doing it's job if you are attacked at range or by spellcasters, how much of a dealbreaker that ends up being just depends on how your DM builds encounters. I HAVE built a character that heavily used it (got heavy armour proficiency and the heavy armour master feat to make it go longer and was otherwise pure warlock) and unless we were fighting pathetic bandits in an alleyway it rarely made much of an impact.
I have done a lot of melee builds with AOA and always found it good to have.
It is pretty awesome once you can use a 3rd+ level slot on it. Also when you combine it with wrath of the storm or Heliish Rebuke it is a lot of damage you can do to an enemy. A 4th level AOA+4th level HR will do about 54 points of average damage to someone that hits in melee. And if they do less than 20, it is going to do another 20 the next time I get hit in melee.
Worst case no one hits in melee while it is up, but even then it is extra temp hit points and it is still not bad - level for level it gives me more hps than aid does (albeit for a shorter time and only me) and in terms of just hp it is about as good as cure wounds if cast in battle to boost myself.
Spirit Guardians has a ten minute duration. You cast it as soon as you see combat looming.
Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and maybe a cantrip or Guiding Bolt. Or you could heal someone I suppose, if you really feel like it. Dodge is always an option.
Call Lightning is a pretty good spell, especially with the Tempest Cleric's channel divinity, but a strength of Spirit Guardians is that you don't have to commit any actions to it. Once it's cast it just sits there, doing damage to anyone who comes near.
So I guess it's horses for courses. One of the nice things about Clerics is that they have options, many options.
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I have a tempest cleric who will be doing a 1-level Fathomless Warlock dip. She might go more warlock after level 9 (8cleric/1warlock). The character has a 14 Charisma which will not go any higher. She also has S16, C12, W16
The character is basically a tempest cleric tank build. I am going to use booming blade and heavy armor and be front line kind of guy with spells. I am going to get Armor of Agathys for one spell, but I am wondering Hellish Rebuke vs Hex for my other Warlock spell.
Is better getting hex to add 1d6 to attacks (along with 1d6 to spiritual weapon and tentacle attacks) or better to get the hellish rebuke to punish guys who hit me. I can upcast HR with cleric slots too.
Another thing worth noting is she has warcaster, which should help some on concentration saves, but she does not have constitution proficiency.
Hex doesn't synergize that well with Spiritual Weapon and Tentacle attacks. Why? They all need a bonus action.
It's great if you're only focusing on one enemy, but it takes one round to set up. Also, as soon as you have to move your hex you cannot use your tentacle or spiritual weapon.
Tentacle is potent for the movement control. Hex has a debuff that can be useful, but if you're not going to provoke any skill checks from the opponent, it's not that important anyway.
Also, as a Cleric you have access to one of - if not the - best 1st level concentration spell anyway: Bless. Considering it also heightens your chance to hit with your bonus action tentacle or spiritual weapon that's a boost do your damage as well - not to mention the boost to your team.
Considering Hellish Rebuke: While it might not be the most efficient use for your spell slots, it definitely sounds like fun and fitting in with the playstyle. With Tempest Cleric you always get a similar feature from Wrath of the Storm, so it's playing in nicely with the thematic.
It's not like 1st level Warlock spells are that great overall.
Tempest cleric gets wrath of the storm, which is a lot like hellish rebuke, as a class feature, then at level 6, you can push the away from you in addition to hurting them. Seems like hellish rebuke would be redundant.
That is tied to wisdom, which means only 3 times a day until 12th level on this particular character. Also it only works on targets within 5 feet that hit with an attack. HR works on enemies out to 60 feet who damage you by any method.
All true. But wrath doesn't use any spell slots. And since most combats last only 3 rounds, and you won't likely be attacked every single round, you probably won't run out, unless you're actually having that mythical ideal of 6 fights a day. And wrath lets you choose between two damage types, while rebuke does more damage, but fire is more commonly resisted, so I don't know where that leaves it. As always, its about trade-offs, I suppose.
Wait a minute, why not just start Tiefling and get Hellish Rebuke for free? Or is that bad for your RP head cannon?
She got Fey touched feat at 1st level.
Hex is a garbage spell, and hellish rebuke is only slightly better. If you're already a cleric you have so many better concentration spell options like Bless, Hold Person, or Spirit Guardians. I'd say the best option for you to take would be Protection from Evil and Good, unless you know you aren't going to be fighting any of those creature types. Thunderwave from the Fathomless list is also maybe worthwhile for the Tempest synergy.
Hex only gives you at best 2d6 extra damage, which averages quite low when you actually start to apply chance to hit percentages. Your strength/charisma aren't really that high and that adds up, realistically the average damage off of hex is more likely close to around 4 or 5 after factoring that stuff into it.
Hellish Rebuke isn't that much better either damage wise, but has a better comparative opportunity cost. Ideally you never get hit or minimize the odds of getting hit, but if you aren't spending your reactions on anything else anyway then it's basically a free action. It still isn't really GOOD, it's a first level slot for an average of 10-11 damage if the creature fails, so realistically it's more like 7 if you factor in the fail chance. Combine that with how common fire resistance/immunity is.
Protection from Evil and Good is basically a +5 AC against creatures it applies against. Charmed and Frightened are niche but still pretty effective debuffs that it helps you avoid when it applies as well.
Thunderwave is only really worth looking at as an option for maximizing damage against a group of enemies. There are some teamwork/terrain dependent situations where the spell becomes a lot better but that's more campaign dependent.
Bless is the best option though and should be used during most combats. Average +2 bonus to hits and saves is basically a +10% success chance to nearly everything that happens in a combat, and you get to spread that around to a lot of party members to make them like you more. Target yourself for a bonus on the concentration save to maintain it, and help you survive spellcasters blasting you for being in melee.
TBH the problem is that base warlock has one of the worst spell lists in the game if you ignore EB. I'd argue it's worse than the Bard in most meaningful aspects before magic secrets even factor into it.
Wait, you're saying Bards have a horrible spell list? Thems fightin' words! Bards have pretty reasonable flexibility: healing, buffing, mind control, debuffing, divination, even some abjuration. How dare you insult the Bard spell list. In fact, i would almost argue that Bards have a better spell list overall than base Clerics.
Regarding OP's question, Hex is not a bad spell, esp if you want really want a creature to fail a particular ability check. The 1d6 isn't great by itself unless you have a way to "attack" a creature multiple times per round. For a Cleric, the damage is mostly frosting. If, however, you plan on taking some control spells that depend on ability checks, then it could be useful. Unfortunately, most Cleric spells are a bit lacking in the Control Department.
I am not a fan of bless on a melee oriented front-line cleric. It takes an action to cast which means it often is gone before you even get to use your bonus action. Hex is much better in my play style, mostly because of the bonus action cast. Among 1st level spells shield of faith is better too.
I don't see myself using Spirit Guardians much with upcast Thunderwave and Call Lightning available. Can't see when that delayed damage would be a good idea. I also have dissonant Whispers through Fey Touched that can be upcast for 5d6 and on a failed saves causes a warcaster booming blade reaction that I can land max thunder damage on. Maybe if I had Sentinel or something that I could force enemies to stay in the AOE but I think the other spells at my disposal will play a lot better than SG will.
It is actually only 1d6 with a melee weapon. The disadvantage on ability checks with Hex is pretty good though and the fact the spell can last up to an hour is a nice bonus.
No but it is another damaging option. The key here is punishing enemies for hitting and another thing worth mentioning is how good this is on low hp enemies. It can take them out of the game off turn. HR also upcasts very well. I have wrathful storm as well, so HR would only be used when I ran out of uses on that or when the enemy hit me from range.
Protection from good and evil is a great spell. Only downside there is the Material component. That is already on the cleric list though, so not much reason to get it as a Warlock.
Thunderwave is on the Tempest list already, so I always have that prepared and it is GREAT when combined with the destructive wrath. Usually I will be upcasting Thunderwave though, not doing it at 1st level on a warlock slot.
FWIW I ended up picking HR because while Hex is a great spell, it has material components and this will be a sword and board cleric. With warcaster the somatic components of Hellish Rebuke are no big deal, and cleric spells with material components are easy too because I can use the shield. However with Hex being a warlock spell it would be difficult to make work unless I used a quarterstaff. If I get a magical staff down the road though it would be an option on a future spell.
Only points I'm going to disagree on is the Spirit Guardians being worse than Call Lightning or Thunderwave, that Bless is a poor choice for someone in melee, Hex is worth taking for the reasons you mentioned, and that Protection from Evil and Good isn't worth taking.
On the Bless thing. If we assume it is just a +2 to all the rolls, that's still a +10% to average damage to anyone affected that uses attack rolls. Pretending for a moment that you have someone doing sharpshooter/gwm stuff and have an average DPS of 40, that's an extra 8 average damage. That plus the fact you are making them/yourself 10% more likely to succeed on any saves against spells or random monster effects makes it better than Shield of Faith which only gives a single person an extra 10% dodge chance. Is it worthwhile to reset it while in the midst of a melee? Probably not, but it is a great spell to use before rushing into combat or as you are closing into melee range.
Spiritual Guardians VS Upcast Thunderwave/Call Lightning I think that Thunderwave is sort of a different niche, but it easily blows Call Lightning out of the water. Upcasted Thunderwave using a 3rd level spell slot is only 4d8 or a maximized 32 damage to a cluster of enemies directly in front of you in a cube, it isn't great when you are dealing with a swarm of enemies that are surrounding you. Call Lightning is an action to use for 3d10 for an average 16 damage assuming they fail, which brings that down a lot more to something like 11ish average per enemy in the space. The radius of impact also isn't really that great for swarms, since the furthest it goes is a 15 foot cube (which is basically the same as thunderwave but at range). It might be worth using if you are staying at range away from the enemy, but you said before you were a frontliner cleric, rather than a blaster. Spiritual Guardians will apply it's damage to anything that gets caught in your space including when they run into it, that means that you can ensure any enemy approaching your respectable 15 ft aura will take damage. It's also important to remember that ANY creature in your aura has it's speed halved (which stacks with difficult terrain). It scales far better by hitting a much larger zone worth of enemies even if it does slightly less damage, and actually helps prevent enemies from escaping from you with their speed halved. It also doesn't take any actions from you to maintain it, so you can just add whatever damage you get from Spiritual Guardians to your Booming Blade shenanigans. Even if you spend a maximized damage on Call Lightning it will quickly drop average DPR and be overtaken by Spiritual Guardians over the course of a few rounds, faster if you are dealing with a larger swarm of enemies. It's also worth considering the possible synergy of it if you combine it along with Thuderwave and your 6th level feature, pushing them 20 ft away from you means they won't be able to actually get within 5 ft of you on their turn since the movement is halved while in your zone, assuming they have a base 30 movement.
Hex sucks for you since it eats your concentration without actively doing very much without specific party synergy. If you have a grappler in your party or a druid who uses the handful of spells they have that uses skill checks instead of saves it's maybe worthwhile as a single target debuff but even then you'd be better off casting something a bit stronger. The "at best 2d6" was also accounting for your tentacle, which you can't even use to slow the opponent down the turn you reapply Hex.
An argument for Protection from Evil and Good despite it being on both lists is just that it's a better spell than Hex the vast majority of the time. It's a 25% dodge chance to whoever you are giving it to at the most basic level of helpfulness. I just went over why Hex is a bad spell that isn't even really worth taking on actual warlocks after the first few levels because it's so bad. Cleric has better general spell options so freeing up that memorization slot for something with greater impact is more worthwhile than a pretty weak spell that also competes with your better concentration spells. This is basically just an argument that you should do Hellish Rebuke + Protection from Evil and Good, since it is just flat out better than Hex in basically any combat scenario.
Something I didn't cover before but is probably worth stating, Armour of Agathys is pretty situation/campaign dependent but I think it's pretty trash for you unless you know you are just about to fight a bunch of really weak melee enemies. It only lasts around 2-3 hits with how much hp it gives you, and can only apply that damage if it's a melee attacker. This means it isn't doing it's job if you are attacked at range or by spellcasters, how much of a dealbreaker that ends up being just depends on how your DM builds encounters. I HAVE built a character that heavily used it (got heavy armour proficiency and the heavy armour master feat to make it go longer and was otherwise pure warlock) and unless we were fighting pathetic bandits in an alleyway it rarely made much of an impact.
On a tempest Cleric Destructive Wrath Call Lighting does 30 points of damage to one enemy the turn you cast it, 30 points to an enemy on the following turn and 16.5 per turn to an enemy every turn thereafter . Destructive Wrath Thunderwave cast at 3rd level does 32 points of damage to everyone you get in the area of effect, in addition to pushing them back.
Spirit guardians does 0 damage on the turn you cast it and only 13.5 damage on the enemies turn to those who are inside or enter the area. It is going to be very rare it will keep up with those other spells.
But you lose an entire turn. Again a 1st level thunderwave with destructive wrath can do a flat 16 to multiple opponents in the AOE. Dissonant Whispers at first level is 10.5, followed by a booming blade reaction attack that will do another 18+str at 5th level and 22.5+str at 8th level .... If I use destructive wrath I can increase that to 28.5 and 36.5 _str.
So that is about 40 points of damage I could be behind on turn 1. It is going to take a long time to make that up on +12.5% on hit rolls
That is not true, it is a mean 12.5% increase of base damage. If you are using sharpshooter, a longbow and 18 Dex (18.5 damage per hit) it will increase damage 2.3 per hit or 4.6 per turn with extra attack.
This is true regardless of AC unless you need higher than a 20 or lower than a 6 to hit
The character is a tempest cleric I can automatically do maximum damage on both thunderwave and call lighting (two times on call lighting at 6th level).
If enemies are surrounding you then you back up and cast thunderwave, that is almost perfect alignment and if either of the two that get AOOs hit you then you hit them with wrath of the storm. On the other hand if you are in melee surrounded and cast SG it is both a lot less damage and there is a good chance some of them will take no damage at all as the chance of holding on to concentration as you are attacked by 4+ different enemies each with multiattack is small.
Remember SG does not damage at all when you cast it, you need to hang on to concentration and keep them in the AOE to deal any damage at all and they get a save against it. In fairness they get a save against Thunderwave and Call Lightning too, but that is doing almost 3 times as much damage due to distructive wrath.
But it is a LOT more damage with CL. It will take 4 turns for SG to deal the damage I can deal in one turn with CL.
Yes and if they don't approach it I can't damage them. I can call down lighting on any point within 60 feet of where I centered it and deal damage every turn.
The lack of follow on actions is a legit advantage from SG, but it is not enough to cover the massive difference in damage and you have to account for the lost turn too.
Also SG does no damage at all on the turn you cast it and if you lose concentration before the bad guys enter your area (or start their turn there) then it does no damage at all. So you are losing damage right off the bat on your turn too.
In most battles it will never catch up to Call Lighting (assuming you can even keep up concentration):
Total Average Damage:
End of Turn 1- cast SG 0, cast CL 30
End of Turn 2 - Max Booming Blade (15.5)+SG (13.5) = 29, CL 60
End of Turn 3 - Max Booming Blade+SG 58, CL 76.5
End of Turn 4 - Booming Blade+SG 73.5, CL 93
End of Turn 5 - Booming Blade+SG 98.5, CL 109.5
End of Turn 6 - Booming Blade+SG 123.5, CL 126
End of Turn 7 - Booming Blade+SG 148.5, CL 142
So it is 7 turns before SG+cantrip passes CL and that is using your action every turn. Both of those examples used the same number of spell slots and the same number of Channel Divinity options. Moreover if you are in melee (which you will need to be with SG), you are pushing the limits to expect either of these to last 7 turns.
Now SG does have a larger area of effect, but you also can't position it at all, it is centered on you. So if you are in a bad spot, or you are grappled or restrained it still only effects those who start their turn in the AOE or move into it. I can move CL wherever I want to get the best effect, right next to me, far away from me, over to the guy that got through and is beating up the wizard. I can put it where the AOE is most effective. Also I will note the damage comparison above includes Booming Blade and that only ever hits one enemy.
Now at 8th level I get +1d8 on cantrips, which would make it 5 turns before BB+SG did more damage, but I also have 4th level slots and probably would have cast either using a 4th level slot getting an extra 20 points in the first two turns with CL.
The 1st level Warlock spells I ended up getting are HR and Armor of Agathys.
PGE is awesome against fiends or undead etc. I think I am always going to have that prepared as a cleric though. There are not that many others I am going to want. Looking at level 9 (8 Cleric) I will probably have: PGE, HW, Sanctuary, aid, LR, silence, dispel magic, revify, Aura of Life plus my domain spells should be most of what I would want and I still have at least one left with those.
I have done a lot of melee builds with AOA and always found it good to have.
It is pretty awesome once you can use a 3rd+ level slot on it. Also when you combine it with wrath of the storm or Heliish Rebuke it is a lot of damage you can do to an enemy. A 4th level AOA+4th level HR will do about 54 points of average damage to someone that hits in melee. And if they do less than 20, it is going to do another 20 the next time I get hit in melee.
Worst case no one hits in melee while it is up, but even then it is extra temp hit points and it is still not bad - level for level it gives me more hps than aid does (albeit for a shorter time and only me) and in terms of just hp it is about as good as cure wounds if cast in battle to boost myself.
Spirit Guardians has a ten minute duration. You cast it as soon as you see combat looming.
Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and maybe a cantrip or Guiding Bolt. Or you could heal someone I suppose, if you really feel like it. Dodge is always an option.
Call Lightning is a pretty good spell, especially with the Tempest Cleric's channel divinity, but a strength of Spirit Guardians is that you don't have to commit any actions to it. Once it's cast it just sits there, doing damage to anyone who comes near.
So I guess it's horses for courses. One of the nice things about Clerics is that they have options, many options.