Greetings all. I am toying with the idea of a Tiefling Warlock and would like your input on what the best languages and spells would be best to start with.
I have not played since v3.5 so these two are very new to me and is the reason for creating this character. Is there a way I can link my character sheet to this post?
Languages, there is no best or good ones in a vacuum. I'd ask the DM for the common languages in the setting and work from there unless you take a specific pact where a certain language seems appropriate. Like primordial for a genie, fiendish for fiend etc.
Spells
Cantrips eldritch blast, minor illusion, prestidigitation and mage hand are probably the top 4. For most warlocks I'd suggest eldritch blast for sure unless you are going hexblade and even then its a good choice just feels less needed.(and yes for all the I never use it people, yes its possible its just far from optimal for most campaigns)
1st level spells Hex is probably the best at level 1, armor of agathys is another great choice at that level for most people though personally I'm not a fan. I'd personally take hex and then 1 from my sub class.
And there is a way to link your character as I've seen people do it, I just don't know how.
Thanks so much guys. Had a questions regarding starting spells. Infernal Legacy reads:
"You know the thaumaturgy cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the hellish rebuke spell as a 2nd-level spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest."
Does this mean already know the Hellish Rebuke spell or must I use one of my level 1 spell choice to learn it?
Under the current rules you would need to use one of your spell choices for the spell if you wanted to cast it more than once a day as you don't technically know it as a spell. Feats and race features will add a line like you can also cast this spell using spell slots you have of the appropriate level if its added to your "known" spells.
I typically do not pick up eldritch blast until you gain a third cantrip at level 4. The reason for this is because daggers and cross-bow typically do fine until this point.
For example, if you pick eldritch blast + agonizing blast you are using 1 of your invocations and 1 of your cantrips for a ranged attack that deals around 1d10+3 points of damage. With a crossbow you can use that cantrip AND that invocation for utility and still have an attack that deals 1d8+3 damage which is on average just 1 damage less. At level 4 this changes with the ASI bump and at level 5 the 2 rays of eldritch blast does become much stronger and at this same level you gain a 3rd invocation easily fitting in agonizing blast. So I have always said the utility or survivability you give up with taking eldritch blast and agonizing blast before level 4 and 5 is, to me, simply not worth it. Prestidigitation, mage hand and Minor illusion are my 3 favorite invocations before level 4. Pick 2 and you are probably pretty well off.
Hex is always a good level 1 spell early on as you have very few spells known in addition to few spell slots so this offers a little in combat damage for multiple turns and can even offer some out of combat benefits as well. Other than this I love charm person personally, hellish rebuke is solid at low levels, protection from good and evil is good in the right campaign. Fiend lock Command is super good. Archfey, sleep is always great, Great old one I always love me some dissonant whispers.
Edit: Ultimately, eldritch blast and attack cantrips in general are a trap at levels 1-3, unlike what most will tell you. You give up too much utility and don't really gain any damage over your weapons at these levels.
Languages I would go with what makes sense for the character. Maybe they speak the language of their patron, or of the beings around where they lived. Or if that isn’t relevant, maybe you have a chat with your dm and see if there are certain languages that could be a thing.
as for early spells, eldritch blast is always solid. Minor illusion is full of fun. The rest are preference. I like chill touch for stopping the sustain of an enemy. First level spells that are fun include hex and armour of agathis. There may be others but from memory those are the ones I like.
Calling eldritch blast a trap at low levels is a bit of a stretch. They are cantrips and the warlock doesn't have an amazing selection, so there is very little you are missing out on. The comparable damage point only works if you have a high dex, you can't assume everyone has a 16 dex. And yeah at level 2 you will likely take agonizing blast using one of your invocations, no matter when you do it you are going to do it and a level or two either way isn't a trap. There are certain builds where it may be ever so slightly better to wait on it, but for the vast majority it doesn't really matter and you will be taking it anyways soon enough.
If it doesn't matter, than you are losing utility by taking it. Even with a dex of 14 you deal slightly more damage with a crossbow as you do eldritch blast without agonizing blast. And with you only do about 2.2 extra damage per round and you are giving up BOTH a utility cantrip AND an invocation to do a little over 2 damage more. Mage hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation and friends are all good cantrips of which you have to give up 1 to get eldritch blast. Misty visions, Devil Sight, Eyes of the Rune keeper, Eldritch Sight, Mask of many faces, Fiendish Vigor, Beast Speech, Eldritch Mind, even Thief of five fates, are all invocations that will provide you more than agonizing blasts 2 damage over the cross bow will. Before level 4 eldritch blast is a trap it is something that most people take, that most people recommend, and for which there are loads of better options.
If it doesn't matter, than you are losing utility by taking it. Even with a dex of 14 you deal slightly more damage with a crossbow as you do eldritch blast without agonizing blast. And with you only do about 2.2 extra damage per round and you are giving up BOTH a utility cantrip AND an invocation to do a little over 2 damage more. Mage hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation and friends are all good cantrips of which you have to give up 1 to get eldritch blast. Misty visions, Devil Sight, Eyes of the Rune keeper, Eldritch Sight, Mask of many faces, Fiendish Vigor, Beast Speech, Eldritch Mind, even Thief of five fates, are all invocations that will provide you more than agonizing blasts 2 damage over the cross bow will. Before level 4 eldritch blast is a trap it is something that most people take, that most people recommend, and for which there are loads of better options.
I'm all in favor of people getting out of the little box warlock builds tend to get put in, but you kind of lost me at "friends is a good cantrip"
It's sort of the same logic you're using to argue against taking EB at level 1. Friends can be useful... if you invest more resources into making it useful (i.e. Mask of Many Faces or other ways to disguise your identity so you don't get busted when the spell ends). Otherwise, just let the party face do the talking
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If it doesn't matter, than you are losing utility by taking it. Even with a dex of 14 you deal slightly more damage with a crossbow as you do eldritch blast without agonizing blast. And with you only do about 2.2 extra damage per round and you are giving up BOTH a utility cantrip AND an invocation to do a little over 2 damage more. Mage hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation and friends are all good cantrips of which you have to give up 1 to get eldritch blast. Misty visions, Devil Sight, Eyes of the Rune keeper, Eldritch Sight, Mask of many faces, Fiendish Vigor, Beast Speech, Eldritch Mind, even Thief of five fates, are all invocations that will provide you more than agonizing blasts 2 damage over the cross bow will. Before level 4 eldritch blast is a trap it is something that most people take, that most people recommend, and for which there are loads of better options.
Lol okay dude, its a trap. One of these days you will recognize there is a vast difference to not perfectly optimized and trap. Until then have fun seeing the world that way.
If it doesn't matter, than you are losing utility by taking it. Even with a dex of 14 you deal slightly more damage with a crossbow as you do eldritch blast without agonizing blast. And with you only do about 2.2 extra damage per round and you are giving up BOTH a utility cantrip AND an invocation to do a little over 2 damage more. Mage hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation and friends are all good cantrips of which you have to give up 1 to get eldritch blast. Misty visions, Devil Sight, Eyes of the Rune keeper, Eldritch Sight, Mask of many faces, Fiendish Vigor, Beast Speech, Eldritch Mind, even Thief of five fates, are all invocations that will provide you more than agonizing blasts 2 damage over the cross bow will. Before level 4 eldritch blast is a trap it is something that most people take, that most people recommend, and for which there are loads of better options.
I'm all in favor of people getting out of the little box warlock builds tend to get put in, but you kind of lost me at "friends is a good cantrip"
It's sort of the same logic you're using to argue against taking EB at level 1. Friends can be useful... if you invest more resources into making it useful (i.e. Mask of Many Faces or other ways to disguise your identity so you don't get busted when the spell ends). Otherwise, just let the party face do the talking
I have been using the character creater on here and I am a bit stumped. Lets say I hit lv.2 and choose Scorching Ray as my spell. The program will not list it as a spell option even if I have chosen the Fiend as my Patron. Correct me if I am wrong, is it because by default at 2nd level you can only learn another lv.1 spell? If so how does that work (casting a higher level spell at lower level)
You can cast lower level spells with a higher level spell slot, but not the other way around; you can only choose a new spell at a level that you have slots to cast it. You might need to check the class chart for warlocks so you know which levels improve your Pact Magic.
You can cast lower level spells with a higher level spell slot, but not the other way around; you can only choose a new spell at a level that you have slots to cast it. You might need to check the class chart for warlocks so you know which levels improve your Pact Magic.
I have. Fiend allows me to choose spells that are higher on level than I currently am. My question was more towards if the reason this program will not show those is because my spell slots do not allow me to cast them even if my patron does allow me the choice to choose.
You can cast lower level spells with a higher level spell slot, but not the other way around; you can only choose a new spell at a level that you have slots to cast it. You might need to check the class chart for warlocks so you know which levels improve your Pact Magic.
I have. Fiend allows me to choose spells that are higher on level than I currently am. My question was more towards if the reason this program will not show those is because my spell slots do not allow me to cast them even if my patron does allow me the choice to choose.
There is some misunderstanding I think. The fiend gives you the option to pick It when you unlock those level spells. So you don’t get Scorching ray at level 2. It is a level 2 spell. You unlock level 2 spells at level 3. And each level of spell past that you unlock every two levels. For example 3rd level spells unlock at level 5, 4th at 7 and so on.
the fiend doesn’t let you choose higher level spells than you have. It just lets you choose those spells when you get access to them.
So Infernal Legacy allows me to "learn" Helish rebuke at level 3 and can cast it as a lv2 spell without using a slot. The reason I wont be able to cast scorching hands at level 2 is because at level 2 I can only cast 2 level 1 spells. But I can however cast command since it is a level 1 spell... Correct?
I think most of my confusion stems from using the character building app. Since it limits your spell choices unless you purchase the PHB thus making it seem that I don't have access to them at my level even though I actually do. Correct?
Basically your spell levels are offset from your character levels. Level 1 and 2 you have level 1 spells. Level 3 and 4 you have level 2 spells. Level 5 and 6 you have level 3 spells. Level 7 and 8 you have level 4 spells, and at level 9 you get level 5 spells. Regular casters get to progress onto level 6, 7, 8. and 9 spells, while Warlocks only get Mystic Arcanum, though Warlocks do get the relevant level Mystic Arcanum at the same level other full casters get the same level spells.
Basically your spell levels are offset from your character levels. Level 1 and 2 you have level 1 spells. Level 3 and 4 you have level 2 spells. Level 5 and 6 you have level 3 spells. Level 7 and 8 you have level 4 spells, and at level 9 you get level 5 spells. Regular casters get to progress onto level 6, 7, 8. and 9 spells, while Warlocks only get Mystic Arcanum, though Warlocks do get the relevant level Mystic Arcanum at the same level other full casters get the same level spells.
Thanks but that is not what I was getting at. I was referring to the inability to choose all the spells allowed through the Beyond app due to not owning the digital version. Thus making it seem to me (a beginner) that I had no access to those spells even though I could have chosen more than the ones the app shows.
Greetings all. I am toying with the idea of a Tiefling Warlock and would like your input on what the best languages and spells would be best to start with.
I have not played since v3.5 so these two are very new to me and is the reason for creating this character. Is there a way I can link my character sheet to this post?
Thank you all in advance.
Languages, there is no best or good ones in a vacuum. I'd ask the DM for the common languages in the setting and work from there unless you take a specific pact where a certain language seems appropriate. Like primordial for a genie, fiendish for fiend etc.
Spells
Cantrips eldritch blast, minor illusion, prestidigitation and mage hand are probably the top 4. For most warlocks I'd suggest eldritch blast for sure unless you are going hexblade and even then its a good choice just feels less needed.(and yes for all the I never use it people, yes its possible its just far from optimal for most campaigns)
1st level spells Hex is probably the best at level 1, armor of agathys is another great choice at that level for most people though personally I'm not a fan. I'd personally take hex and then 1 from my sub class.
And there is a way to link your character as I've seen people do it, I just don't know how.
Thanks so much guys. Had a questions regarding starting spells. Infernal Legacy reads:
"You know the thaumaturgy cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the hellish rebuke spell as a 2nd-level spell once with this trait and regain the ability to do so when you finish a long rest."
Does this mean already know the Hellish Rebuke spell or must I use one of my level 1 spell choice to learn it?
Under the current rules you would need to use one of your spell choices for the spell if you wanted to cast it more than once a day as you don't technically know it as a spell. Feats and race features will add a line like you can also cast this spell using spell slots you have of the appropriate level if its added to your "known" spells.
I typically do not pick up eldritch blast until you gain a third cantrip at level 4. The reason for this is because daggers and cross-bow typically do fine until this point.
For example, if you pick eldritch blast + agonizing blast you are using 1 of your invocations and 1 of your cantrips for a ranged attack that deals around 1d10+3 points of damage. With a crossbow you can use that cantrip AND that invocation for utility and still have an attack that deals 1d8+3 damage which is on average just 1 damage less. At level 4 this changes with the ASI bump and at level 5 the 2 rays of eldritch blast does become much stronger and at this same level you gain a 3rd invocation easily fitting in agonizing blast. So I have always said the utility or survivability you give up with taking eldritch blast and agonizing blast before level 4 and 5 is, to me, simply not worth it. Prestidigitation, mage hand and Minor illusion are my 3 favorite invocations before level 4. Pick 2 and you are probably pretty well off.
Hex is always a good level 1 spell early on as you have very few spells known in addition to few spell slots so this offers a little in combat damage for multiple turns and can even offer some out of combat benefits as well. Other than this I love charm person personally, hellish rebuke is solid at low levels, protection from good and evil is good in the right campaign. Fiend lock Command is super good. Archfey, sleep is always great, Great old one I always love me some dissonant whispers.
Edit: Ultimately, eldritch blast and attack cantrips in general are a trap at levels 1-3, unlike what most will tell you. You give up too much utility and don't really gain any damage over your weapons at these levels.
Languages I would go with what makes sense for the character. Maybe they speak the language of their patron, or of the beings around where they lived. Or if that isn’t relevant, maybe you have a chat with your dm and see if there are certain languages that could be a thing.
as for early spells, eldritch blast is always solid. Minor illusion is full of fun. The rest are preference. I like chill touch for stopping the sustain of an enemy. First level spells that are fun include hex and armour of agathis. There may be others but from memory those are the ones I like.
Calling eldritch blast a trap at low levels is a bit of a stretch. They are cantrips and the warlock doesn't have an amazing selection, so there is very little you are missing out on. The comparable damage point only works if you have a high dex, you can't assume everyone has a 16 dex. And yeah at level 2 you will likely take agonizing blast using one of your invocations, no matter when you do it you are going to do it and a level or two either way isn't a trap. There are certain builds where it may be ever so slightly better to wait on it, but for the vast majority it doesn't really matter and you will be taking it anyways soon enough.
If it doesn't matter, than you are losing utility by taking it. Even with a dex of 14 you deal slightly more damage with a crossbow as you do eldritch blast without agonizing blast. And with you only do about 2.2 extra damage per round and you are giving up BOTH a utility cantrip AND an invocation to do a little over 2 damage more. Mage hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation and friends are all good cantrips of which you have to give up 1 to get eldritch blast. Misty visions, Devil Sight, Eyes of the Rune keeper, Eldritch Sight, Mask of many faces, Fiendish Vigor, Beast Speech, Eldritch Mind, even Thief of five fates, are all invocations that will provide you more than agonizing blasts 2 damage over the cross bow will. Before level 4 eldritch blast is a trap it is something that most people take, that most people recommend, and for which there are loads of better options.
I'm all in favor of people getting out of the little box warlock builds tend to get put in, but you kind of lost me at "friends is a good cantrip"
It's sort of the same logic you're using to argue against taking EB at level 1. Friends can be useful... if you invest more resources into making it useful (i.e. Mask of Many Faces or other ways to disguise your identity so you don't get busted when the spell ends). Otherwise, just let the party face do the talking
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Lol okay dude, its a trap. One of these days you will recognize there is a vast difference to not perfectly optimized and trap. Until then have fun seeing the world that way.
100% fair.
I have been using the character creater on here and I am a bit stumped. Lets say I hit lv.2 and choose Scorching Ray as my spell. The program will not list it as a spell option even if I have chosen the Fiend as my Patron. Correct me if I am wrong, is it because by default at 2nd level you can only learn another lv.1 spell? If so how does that work (casting a higher level spell at lower level)
Thanks
You can cast lower level spells with a higher level spell slot, but not the other way around; you can only choose a new spell at a level that you have slots to cast it. You might need to check the class chart for warlocks so you know which levels improve your Pact Magic.
I have. Fiend allows me to choose spells that are higher on level than I currently am. My question was more towards if the reason this program will not show those is because my spell slots do not allow me to cast them even if my patron does allow me the choice to choose.
There is some misunderstanding I think. The fiend gives you the option to pick It when you unlock those level spells. So you don’t get Scorching ray at level 2. It is a level 2 spell. You unlock level 2 spells at level 3. And each level of spell past that you unlock every two levels. For example 3rd level spells unlock at level 5, 4th at 7 and so on.
the fiend doesn’t let you choose higher level spells than you have. It just lets you choose those spells when you get access to them.
i hope that makes sense.
So Infernal Legacy allows me to "learn" Helish rebuke at level 3 and can cast it as a lv2 spell without using a slot. The reason I wont be able to cast scorching hands at level 2 is because at level 2 I can only cast 2 level 1 spells. But I can however cast command since it is a level 1 spell... Correct?
I think most of my confusion stems from using the character building app. Since it limits your spell choices unless you purchase the PHB thus making it seem that I don't have access to them at my level even though I actually do. Correct?
Basically.
Basically your spell levels are offset from your character levels. Level 1 and 2 you have level 1 spells. Level 3 and 4 you have level 2 spells. Level 5 and 6 you have level 3 spells. Level 7 and 8 you have level 4 spells, and at level 9 you get level 5 spells. Regular casters get to progress onto level 6, 7, 8. and 9 spells, while Warlocks only get Mystic Arcanum, though Warlocks do get the relevant level Mystic Arcanum at the same level other full casters get the same level spells.
Thanks but that is not what I was getting at. I was referring to the inability to choose all the spells allowed through the Beyond app due to not owning the digital version. Thus making it seem to me (a beginner) that I had no access to those spells even though I could have chosen more than the ones the app shows.
That sounds right.