I'm also not looking for a "Level 20 Optimized Build", this is going from the ground up... not the top down... we'll probably be lucky to make it to level 10...
Some of the posts here are forgetting the OP's request for something playable at lower levels, not something that fully comes online in Tier IV.
I understand that. I was trying to show what is possible with a Warlock tank. I would take Warlock/hexblade and take the tough feat early as you can so you have some extra HP. Take Pact of Blade and imporved Pact weapon at level 5. You can use Blade Ward to reduce some melee damage and go from there.
Our Paladin is leaving the campaign, and my Swashbuckler/Hexblade has always been very melee focused. Her pact blade is +2, two-handed, finesse, and she has 20 CHA, so both her attacks are +11 to hit, 1d10 +7 damage, with 2d6 Sneak Attack for the turn. With Eldritch and Staggering Smites, she can hit rill hard. She's got +1 Mithril Half-Plate, and a Ring of Protection, so with only a 14 DEX she's at 19 AC. Not truly as powerful as a true tank, but with defense options like Armor of Agathys, Shadow of Moil, and Hellish Rebuke, she's not afraid to take a hit.
This post is a couple months old, but there's some great stuff in here for folks like me googling "warlock tanking?". Just wanting to clarify a few things that Hylid said here though.
At level 15(fighter 7) you will get war magic which will let you cast a cantrip as an action and make a melee attack as a bonus action. Eldritch Blast is a cantrip and the go to spell for a Warlock. At level 13(Fighter 5) you will get an extra attack. You will get another one at level 19(fighter 11).
This means that at level 20 you can take 3 actions casting EB 3 times and take 3 melee attacks a round.
Eldritch Blast is great and all, but unless you've got something letting you ranged attack while in melee without penalty (i.e. Crossbow Expert), you'll be at disadvantage on the attack rolls for it. Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade make great alternatives that don't require the extra (otherwise rather useless) feet expenditure.
The second part is just...right out, in multiple ways...
First, fighter extra attacks let you attack multiple times *when taking the attack action*. It doesn't give you extra actions.
Second, War Magic lets you make a weapon attack as a bonus action when you use your main action to cast a cantrip. If you've used your main action to cast a cantrip, you're not using it to take an attack action and thus don't get any extra attacks.
Third, the weapon attack gained from War Magic requires a bonus action, and nothing is giving you multiple bonus actions in a turn.
The thought of being able to cast 3 Eldritch Blasts and take 3 melee attacks in a turn is absolutely hilarious though. At level 20, the way Hylid described it, that would be...15 attack rolls per turn? 4x3 for the EB's + 3 for the melee attacks? Hey guys, hang on a second while I figure out the results of this bag of d20's I just rolled for my turn!
I meant to add that by level 20 when you make a melee attack the target then has disadvantage on the next spell you cast against them. So in your first action and every action, you use your bonus action to make a melee attack and then they have disadvantage on the next action Eldritch Blast.
Eldritch StrikePHB, pg. 75
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, it has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn.
See above about why the first part doesn't work, but then touching on the Eldritch Strike part of this....Eldritch Blast is a ranged spell attack, with multiple attack rolls (1 per beam). It doesn't require a saving throw. Eldritch Strike has no relevance on it at all.
@Hylid: If you happen to notice this (again, I know this post is rather old), I'd highly suggest you re-familiarize yourself with some of the concepts you've got for this character you're describing. Much of it doesn't work the way you think it will... Also, I checked that homebrew shield feat you mentioned... A feat that gives a shield as much damage as a 2 handed long sword AND keeps not only 2 AC but actually increases it to 3? More power (literally) to you for getting your DM to agree to that, that's a ridiculous feat I'd never allow.
This post is a couple months old, but there's some great stuff in here for folks like me googling "warlock tanking?". Just wanting to clarify a few things that Hylid said here though.
At level 15(fighter 7) you will get war magic which will let you cast a cantrip as an action and make a melee attack as a bonus action. Eldritch Blast is a cantrip and the go to spell for a Warlock. At level 13(Fighter 5) you will get an extra attack. You will get another one at level 19(fighter 11).
This means that at level 20 you can take 3 actions casting EB 3 times and take 3 melee attacks a round.
Eldritch Blast is great and all, but unless you've got something letting you ranged attack while in melee without penalty (i.e. Crossbow Expert), you'll be at disadvantage on the attack rolls for it. Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade make great alternatives that don't require the extra (otherwise rather useless) feet expenditure.
The second part is just...right out, in multiple ways...
First, fighter extra attacks let you attack multiple times *when taking the attack action*. It doesn't give you extra actions.
Second, War Magic lets you make a weapon attack as a bonus action when you use your main action to cast a cantrip. If you've used your main action to cast a cantrip, you're not using it to take an attack action and thus don't get any extra attacks.
Third, the weapon attack gained from War Magic requires a bonus action, and nothing is giving you multiple bonus actions in a turn.
The thought of being able to cast 3 Eldritch Blasts and take 3 melee attacks in a turn is absolutely hilarious though. At level 20, the way Hylid described it, that would be...15 attack rolls per turn? 4x3 for the EB's + 3 for the melee attacks? Hey guys, hang on a second while I figure out the results of this bag of d20's I just rolled for my turn!
I meant to add that by level 20 when you make a melee attack the target then has disadvantage on the next spell you cast against them. So in your first action and every action, you use your bonus action to make a melee attack and then they have disadvantage on the next action Eldritch Blast.
Eldritch StrikePHB, pg. 75
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, it has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn.
See above about why the first part doesn't work, but then touching on the Eldritch Strike part of this....Eldritch Blast is a ranged spell attack, with multiple attack rolls (1 per beam). It doesn't require a saving throw. Eldritch Strike has no relevance on it at all.
@Hylid: If you happen to notice this (again, I know this post is rather old), I'd highly suggest you re-familiarize yourself with some of the concepts you've got for this character you're describing. Much of it doesn't work the way you think it will... Also, I checked that homebrew shield feat you mentioned... A feat that gives a shield as much damage as a 2 handed long sword AND keeps not only 2 AC but actually increases it to 3? More power (literally) to you for getting your DM to agree to that, that's a ridiculous feat I'd never allow.
Yeah I have learned a lot since then.
If I had a character that had 2 attacks per action then I should still be able to cast Eldritch blast twice from what I see on my Character sheet.
I admit to being new to 5e so I do not have the understanding of the system yet that I do of Pathfinder or 3.5. I will agree that the homebrew shield feat is a little overpowered. That was not my intention. I am in a game that has 1 melee rouge, 1 bow ranger, 1 divine sorcerer, 1 druid, and me the hexblade warlock. This means there was no tank. I was one of 2 people in the group that had ever played any version of D&D before and this is the first time my friend has been DM so he asked if I could help out. I really wanted to play a Warlock but did offer to change to a tank class like fighter/pally etc. The DM did not want me to change classes so the feat was the compromise. I found it in the homebrew section and since Captain America is a favorite of mine it made sense. The feat I found was more broken as it ended the damage at 2d10 and added +2 to AC. I cut each value in half.
If you have any advice for a new Warlock who seems to find themselves in the position to play tank I would appreciate it.
Getting into "what can I do per turn in combat" gets us a bit off topic for this thread, but I'll briefly touch on it since it's dealing with this warlock discussion.
The most basic rule, but there are very few ways to change this, is that on each turnyou are only able to take 1 Action, 1 Bonus Action, and 1Reaction, along with moving your standard movement speed. If you're ever in a situation where you're thinking you can get additionalactions, look very closely at that situation and you'll probably see you can't. Action Surge (from Fighter) and the spell Haste are examples of exceptions to this rule.
If you're attacking twice (or more) when you use the "Attack" action from the Extra Attack class feature, then that requires you to spend your 1 action on the "Attack" action. Eldritch Blast requires 1 Action to cast, which would be the "Cast a Spell" action and preclude you from using the "Attack" action. War Magic (from Eldritch Knight) states that when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action. In order to use War Magic, you need to spend your 1 action for the turn on the "Cast a Spell" action, and then you're allowed to use your 1 bonus action to make a weapon attack. Note the wording there, your 1 bonus action grants you a weapon attack...not an extra action that you can use to take the "Attack" action. You don't get multiple attacks from that bonus action, even if you have the extra attacks class feature. Also, no where along this path did anything grant the ability to cast multiple Eldricth blasts at all.
I was trying to ask a more basic question about it but I don't want to take this thread off topic. Thanks for your time. I have people to ask my questions to. To the person who started this thread I would honestly just ignore what I posted about Eldritch Knight and that build. Ironman_MK11 is right in that the mechanics would not work how I thought at that time. I hope you get some good advice going forward and as always have fun. :)
Yes they can. The homebrew feat was just to add a little Captain America flavor to that character. Warlock/Pally is probably going to be the best tank build that will work off of Char like you would want. Sentinel is a good feat to use as well.
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Is your dexterity high enough to gain another AC from medium armor mastery? It's another easy way to up your AC.
I understand that. I was trying to show what is possible with a Warlock tank. I would take Warlock/hexblade and take the tough feat early as you can so you have some extra HP. Take Pact of Blade and imporved Pact weapon at level 5. You can use Blade Ward to reduce some melee damage and go from there.
Our Paladin is leaving the campaign, and my Swashbuckler/Hexblade has always been very melee focused. Her pact blade is +2, two-handed, finesse, and she has 20 CHA, so both her attacks are +11 to hit, 1d10 +7 damage, with 2d6 Sneak Attack for the turn. With Eldritch and Staggering Smites, she can hit rill hard. She's got +1 Mithril Half-Plate, and a Ring of Protection, so with only a 14 DEX she's at 19 AC. Not truly as powerful as a true tank, but with defense options like Armor of Agathys, Shadow of Moil, and Hellish Rebuke, she's not afraid to take a hit.
This post is a couple months old, but there's some great stuff in here for folks like me googling "warlock tanking?". Just wanting to clarify a few things that Hylid said here though.
Eldritch Blast is great and all, but unless you've got something letting you ranged attack while in melee without penalty (i.e. Crossbow Expert), you'll be at disadvantage on the attack rolls for it. Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade make great alternatives that don't require the extra (otherwise rather useless) feet expenditure.
The second part is just...right out, in multiple ways...
The thought of being able to cast 3 Eldritch Blasts and take 3 melee attacks in a turn is absolutely hilarious though. At level 20, the way Hylid described it, that would be...15 attack rolls per turn? 4x3 for the EB's + 3 for the melee attacks? Hey guys, hang on a second while I figure out the results of this bag of d20's I just rolled for my turn!
See above about why the first part doesn't work, but then touching on the Eldritch Strike part of this....Eldritch Blast is a ranged spell attack, with multiple attack rolls (1 per beam). It doesn't require a saving throw. Eldritch Strike has no relevance on it at all.
@Hylid: If you happen to notice this (again, I know this post is rather old), I'd highly suggest you re-familiarize yourself with some of the concepts you've got for this character you're describing. Much of it doesn't work the way you think it will... Also, I checked that homebrew shield feat you mentioned... A feat that gives a shield as much damage as a 2 handed long sword AND keeps not only 2 AC but actually increases it to 3? More power (literally) to you for getting your DM to agree to that, that's a ridiculous feat I'd never allow.
Yeah I have learned a lot since then.
If I had a character that had 2 attacks per action then I should still be able to cast Eldritch blast twice from what I see on my Character sheet.
Link: https://ddb.ac/characters/16179067/2Jk6Qb
I admit to being new to 5e so I do not have the understanding of the system yet that I do of Pathfinder or 3.5. I will agree that the homebrew shield feat is a little overpowered. That was not my intention. I am in a game that has 1 melee rouge, 1 bow ranger, 1 divine sorcerer, 1 druid, and me the hexblade warlock. This means there was no tank. I was one of 2 people in the group that had ever played any version of D&D before and this is the first time my friend has been DM so he asked if I could help out. I really wanted to play a Warlock but did offer to change to a tank class like fighter/pally etc. The DM did not want me to change classes so the feat was the compromise. I found it in the homebrew section and since Captain America is a favorite of mine it made sense. The feat I found was more broken as it ended the damage at 2d10 and added +2 to AC. I cut each value in half.
If you have any advice for a new Warlock who seems to find themselves in the position to play tank I would appreciate it.
Getting into "what can I do per turn in combat" gets us a bit off topic for this thread, but I'll briefly touch on it since it's dealing with this warlock discussion.
The most basic rule, but there are very few ways to change this, is that on each turn you are only able to take 1 Action, 1 Bonus Action, and 1 Reaction, along with moving your standard movement speed. If you're ever in a situation where you're thinking you can get additional actions, look very closely at that situation and you'll probably see you can't. Action Surge (from Fighter) and the spell Haste are examples of exceptions to this rule.
If you're attacking twice (or more) when you use the "Attack" action from the Extra Attack class feature, then that requires you to spend your 1 action on the "Attack" action. Eldritch Blast requires 1 Action to cast, which would be the "Cast a Spell" action and preclude you from using the "Attack" action. War Magic (from Eldritch Knight) states that when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action. In order to use War Magic, you need to spend your 1 action for the turn on the "Cast a Spell" action, and then you're allowed to use your 1 bonus action to make a weapon attack. Note the wording there, your 1 bonus action grants you a weapon attack...not an extra action that you can use to take the "Attack" action. You don't get multiple attacks from that bonus action, even if you have the extra attacks class feature. Also, no where along this path did anything grant the ability to cast multiple Eldricth blasts at all.
I was trying to ask a more basic question about it but I don't want to take this thread off topic. Thanks for your time. I have people to ask my questions to. To the person who started this thread I would honestly just ignore what I posted about Eldritch Knight and that build. Ironman_MK11 is right in that the mechanics would not work how I thought at that time. I hope you get some good advice going forward and as always have fun. :)
hexblade warlocks can cast shield anyway.
Yes they can. The homebrew feat was just to add a little Captain America flavor to that character. Warlock/Pally is probably going to be the best tank build that will work off of Char like you would want. Sentinel is a good feat to use as well.