along with dispel magic, i'm either taking fear or thunder step next level
BUT
i have form of dread which already does a lil frightening, and i have a free misty step from the fey touched feet, which already does some teleporting. the options i'm looking at are just better or much better versions of things i can already do.
we don't have crowd control or healing in my party (rogue, barb, monk) and it's not a combat-heavy campaign (we fight once every 2 or 3 sessions). so fear would be 100% ticking crowd control, while thunder step would help with injured allies until i multiclass divine soul in 2 levels.
also kicking around the idea of phantom steed since i'm a tomelock.
mainly, which do you prefer, fear or thunder step? cheers.
I personally prefer fear of these 2 options. The fey step misty step is probably all you are going to need. But 3rd level has so many good options like fly and even situational things like tongues. I even love counter spell early on because until level 7 you are the best counter speller.
Thunder Step is nice, but Fear is the most powerful 3rd level combat spell in the game and it is far more than just frightened.
The mechanics on fear are awesome - enemies drop what they are holding and flee, they draw AOOs when they do, and they can't save again unless they lose sight of you ... and then it is a save. In a dead end room the battle is over for anyone that fails (as long as you hang on to concentration).
along with dispel magic, i'm either taking fear or thunder step next level
BUT
i have form of dread which already does a lil frightening, and i have a free misty step from the fey touched feet, which already does some teleporting. the options i'm looking at are just better or much better versions of things i can already do.
we don't have crowd control or healing in my party (rogue, barb, monk) and it's not a combat-heavy campaign (we fight once every 2 or 3 sessions). so fear would be 100% ticking crowd control, while thunder step would help with injured allies until i multiclass divine soul in 2 levels.
also kicking around the idea of phantom steed since i'm a tomelock.
mainly, which do you prefer, fear or thunder step? cheers.
Don’t take either. Take counterspell because every party needs it and you don’t have a wizard.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Yeah, the big thing about Fear is the question of what else you have competing for your Concentration slot. If you've already got a few other Concentration spells, I'd go with Thunder Step or look for some other non-Concentration spell to diversify your options in combat.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
For people with piles of slots sure, for most warlocks I am not a fan. I'm not going to spend one of my two slots on 5-25 temp hit points and a maybe I'll damage the enemy. It is probably the number one most over rated spell warlocks have.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
For people with piles of slots sure, for most warlocks I am not a fan. I'm not going to spend one of my two slots on 5-25 temp hit points and a maybe I'll damage the enemy. It is probably the number one most over rated spell warlocks have.
Eh, depends how well you're able to stay out of melee. If you're able to keep your distance most of the time, sure, but if your DM is fond of up close confrontations and you consistently take a few hits, there's worse picks. Plus it's non-concentration and lasts for an hour, so you can avoid having to spend your first turn of combat casting it, just put it up before you head into the dungeon/lair/etc.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
For people with piles of slots sure, for most warlocks I am not a fan. I'm not going to spend one of my two slots on 5-25 temp hit points and a maybe I'll damage the enemy. It is probably the number one most over rated spell warlocks have.
Eh, depends how well you're able to stay out of melee. If you're able to keep your distance most of the time, sure, but if your DM is fond of up close confrontations and you consistently take a few hits, there's worse picks. Plus it's non-concentration and lasts for an hour, so you can avoid having to spend your first turn of combat casting it, just put it up before you head into the dungeon/lair/etc.
Sure but for every armor of agathys you cast its one less fear, one less summon, the dimension door I wont have available when needed. You cast it before entering the fort or whatever, and now you have 1 spell before you are tapped out of options other than eldritch blast spam. I'd rather leave the slot open. Even if I end up not using it, I had the backup if needed. And even if your DM is fond of getting in melee with you I suspect if you are in the back the first couple attacks your way will be ranged. Especially since the frost covered guy probably isn't the dude you plan to hit in melee without testing the waters. And sure there are worse picks but worse and over rated are different things. There are some terrible spells out there, but with Agathys, people act like its a near top tier spell. And while it may not be hot garbage it isn't even in the good category imo.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
For people with piles of slots sure, for most warlocks I am not a fan. I'm not going to spend one of my two slots on 5-25 temp hit points and a maybe I'll damage the enemy. It is probably the number one most over rated spell warlocks have.
Say you are level 5 and you spend a slot on armor of agathys. For a whole hour, stuff that hits you takes 15 cold damage. This is great for warlocks because their spells need to last the whole encounter because they have so few spell slots.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
For people with piles of slots sure, for most warlocks I am not a fan. I'm not going to spend one of my two slots on 5-25 temp hit points and a maybe I'll damage the enemy. It is probably the number one most over rated spell warlocks have.
Eh, depends how well you're able to stay out of melee. If you're able to keep your distance most of the time, sure, but if your DM is fond of up close confrontations and you consistently take a few hits, there's worse picks. Plus it's non-concentration and lasts for an hour, so you can avoid having to spend your first turn of combat casting it, just put it up before you head into the dungeon/lair/etc.
Sure but for every armor of agathys you cast its one less fear, one less summon, the dimension door I wont have available when needed. You cast it before entering the fort or whatever, and now you have 1 spell before you are tapped out of options other than eldritch blast spam. I'd rather leave the slot open. Even if I end up not using it, I had the backup if needed. And even if your DM is fond of getting in melee with you I suspect if you are in the back the first couple attacks your way will be ranged. Especially since the frost covered guy probably isn't the dude you plan to hit in melee without testing the waters. And sure there are worse picks but worse and over rated are different things. There are some terrible spells out there, but with Agathys, people act like its a near top tier spell. And while it may not be hot garbage it isn't even in the good category imo.
Many warlock players make the mistake of taking flashy damage spells. They will quickly run out of spell slots and have to resort to spamming EB. The spells you should really look for are buffs and debuffs that last the whole adventuring day, like hex and armor of agathys. EB should be your damage, your spell slots should be precious.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
For people with piles of slots sure, for most warlocks I am not a fan. I'm not going to spend one of my two slots on 5-25 temp hit points and a maybe I'll damage the enemy. It is probably the number one most over rated spell warlocks have.
Eh, depends how well you're able to stay out of melee. If you're able to keep your distance most of the time, sure, but if your DM is fond of up close confrontations and you consistently take a few hits, there's worse picks. Plus it's non-concentration and lasts for an hour, so you can avoid having to spend your first turn of combat casting it, just put it up before you head into the dungeon/lair/etc.
Sure but for every armor of agathys you cast its one less fear, one less summon, the dimension door I wont have available when needed. You cast it before entering the fort or whatever, and now you have 1 spell before you are tapped out of options other than eldritch blast spam. I'd rather leave the slot open. Even if I end up not using it, I had the backup if needed. And even if your DM is fond of getting in melee with you I suspect if you are in the back the first couple attacks your way will be ranged. Especially since the frost covered guy probably isn't the dude you plan to hit in melee without testing the waters. And sure there are worse picks but worse and over rated are different things. There are some terrible spells out there, but with Agathys, people act like its a near top tier spell. And while it may not be hot garbage it isn't even in the good category imo.
Many warlock players make the mistake of taking flashy damage spells. They will quickly run out of spell slots and have to resort to spamming EB. The spells you should really look for are buffs and debuffs that last the whole adventuring day, like hex and armor of agathys. EB should be your damage, your spell slots should be precious.
They should be precious and not wasted on a mid quality spells like armor of agathys. It lasts a hour which is alright but not long enough for rest manipulation and it does very little for the course of your battles ahead.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
For people with piles of slots sure, for most warlocks I am not a fan. I'm not going to spend one of my two slots on 5-25 temp hit points and a maybe I'll damage the enemy. It is probably the number one most over rated spell warlocks have.
Eh, depends how well you're able to stay out of melee. If you're able to keep your distance most of the time, sure, but if your DM is fond of up close confrontations and you consistently take a few hits, there's worse picks. Plus it's non-concentration and lasts for an hour, so you can avoid having to spend your first turn of combat casting it, just put it up before you head into the dungeon/lair/etc.
Sure but for every armor of agathys you cast its one less fear, one less summon, the dimension door I wont have available when needed. You cast it before entering the fort or whatever, and now you have 1 spell before you are tapped out of options other than eldritch blast spam. I'd rather leave the slot open. Even if I end up not using it, I had the backup if needed. And even if your DM is fond of getting in melee with you I suspect if you are in the back the first couple attacks your way will be ranged. Especially since the frost covered guy probably isn't the dude you plan to hit in melee without testing the waters. And sure there are worse picks but worse and over rated are different things. There are some terrible spells out there, but with Agathys, people act like its a near top tier spell. And while it may not be hot garbage it isn't even in the good category imo.
Many warlock players make the mistake of taking flashy damage spells. They will quickly run out of spell slots and have to resort to spamming EB. The spells you should really look for are buffs and debuffs that last the whole adventuring day, like hex and armor of agathys. EB should be your damage, your spell slots should be precious.
They should be precious and not wasted on a mid quality spells like armor of agathys. It lasts a hour which is alright but not long enough for rest manipulation and it does very little for the course of your battles ahead.
IT IS NOT MID QUALITY! It’s 15* damage every time you get hit for an hour! Compare that to burning hands, which is avg. 17.5* damage to a few targets once! Armor of Agathys does so much more damage over the course of the adventuring day. And it doesn’t even require concentration!
i feel like agathys makes a lot of sense as an "i want to do this" pick if you seek melee, and less sense as a just-in-case or a deterrent toward melee enemies.
part of that is knowing your dm. i think it's not great dming to run mobs like they play 90s computer games in their spare time. in my experience most DMs run combat with the fog of war and roleplaying front and center. so most of the time, most enemies are dealing with the most immediate alarming PCs. not all the time, but seeking the backline PC behind cover should come from higher knowledge of the party and preparation, in a way that ideally amps up immersion and drama.
ANYWAAAY if you're avoiding melee but agathys really is majorly helpful, i feel like that means either you are fighting so so much that yes of course take it, you're in Diablo 10, you need it,
or, your DM is somewhat of an optimizer or a war gamer or, you know not "antagonistic", but part of the fun they connect to is in the complications, being cheeky. if you don't fight constantly but a ranged warlock still kinda needs agathys w/ 2 slots, that's a cheeky dm.
so just for the purposes of a forum and general talk or advice, agathys feels high tier for some common warlock roles, or a particular kind of campaign, but there's a decent drop-off once you aren't looking for melee, or you're only in one major combat per session.
So, this has turned into armor of ag debate. Sure.
Wellll.....
*clears throat*
In my opinion, warlocks should avoid getting hit in the first place. We're not the squishiest of squishy (wizards be like) but we are still... kind of squishy.
That came out wrong.
Anyways, the spells you have have a range. Hex, for instance, has a range of 90 feet. Stay back at 90 feet away and spam hex. Why should you get closer?
Darkness. The spell warlocks cast to cripple the enemy--and possibly their own party as well. Stay 60 feet away and we are good.
Hold Person. 60 feet range. Stay 60 feet away.
Now, let me ask you this question. Why do we need Armor of Ag?
To tank hits? Warlocks don't do that. To deal damage? Uh, EB! Because we think we're going to get hit? Uh, actually, tell me of an enemy who can hit you from say 60 feet or more away, with tanks in the way.
along with dispel magic, i'm either taking fear or thunder step next level
BUT
i have form of dread which already does a lil frightening, and i have a free misty step from the fey touched feet, which already does some teleporting. the options i'm looking at are just better or much better versions of things i can already do.
we don't have crowd control or healing in my party (rogue, barb, monk) and it's not a combat-heavy campaign (we fight once every 2 or 3 sessions). so fear would be 100% ticking crowd control, while thunder step would help with injured allies until i multiclass divine soul in 2 levels.
also kicking around the idea of phantom steed since i'm a tomelock.
mainly, which do you prefer, fear or thunder step? cheers.
I personally prefer fear of these 2 options. The fey step misty step is probably all you are going to need. But 3rd level has so many good options like fly and even situational things like tongues. I even love counter spell early on because until level 7 you are the best counter speller.
phantom steed you can buy from a shop and copy the ritual if you have the invocation for it
i vote thunderstep as normally your warlocks on backline but you can get someone out of danger with it
Thunder Step is nice, but Fear is the most powerful 3rd level combat spell in the game and it is far more than just frightened.
The mechanics on fear are awesome - enemies drop what they are holding and flee, they draw AOOs when they do, and they can't save again unless they lose sight of you ... and then it is a save. In a dead end room the battle is over for anyone that fails (as long as you hang on to concentration).
Don’t take either. Take counterspell because every party needs it and you don’t have a wizard.
i took fear and dispel, coz we weren't fighting enough that counterspell coulda been used. next level i took counter tho, i have both magic off spells.
Do you have hex and armor of agathys?
Yeah, the big thing about Fear is the question of what else you have competing for your Concentration slot. If you've already got a few other Concentration spells, I'd go with Thunder Step or look for some other non-Concentration spell to diversify your options in combat.
ah no. i had hex at level 1 but switched it out to focus concentration on Fey-Touched Bless if i need to buff, and now also Fear to handle minions while melee allies work, Invisibility as a possible life-saver, or a form of Sickening Radiance if i need big aoe.
overall i'm not the attacker, my identity is more utility, control, navigation, communication, recon, knowledge. i want the other 3 allies to have the cool finishing move hero moments.
agathys i only briefly considered because i've always been ranged, hiding, misty step, and now probably dimension door. thoughts?
Armor of Agathys is good for everyone who gets hit.
For people with piles of slots sure, for most warlocks I am not a fan. I'm not going to spend one of my two slots on 5-25 temp hit points and a maybe I'll damage the enemy. It is probably the number one most over rated spell warlocks have.
Eh, depends how well you're able to stay out of melee. If you're able to keep your distance most of the time, sure, but if your DM is fond of up close confrontations and you consistently take a few hits, there's worse picks. Plus it's non-concentration and lasts for an hour, so you can avoid having to spend your first turn of combat casting it, just put it up before you head into the dungeon/lair/etc.
Sure but for every armor of agathys you cast its one less fear, one less summon, the dimension door I wont have available when needed. You cast it before entering the fort or whatever, and now you have 1 spell before you are tapped out of options other than eldritch blast spam. I'd rather leave the slot open. Even if I end up not using it, I had the backup if needed. And even if your DM is fond of getting in melee with you I suspect if you are in the back the first couple attacks your way will be ranged. Especially since the frost covered guy probably isn't the dude you plan to hit in melee without testing the waters. And sure there are worse picks but worse and over rated are different things. There are some terrible spells out there, but with Agathys, people act like its a near top tier spell. And while it may not be hot garbage it isn't even in the good category imo.
Say you are level 5 and you spend a slot on armor of agathys. For a whole hour, stuff that hits you takes 15 cold damage. This is great for warlocks because their spells need to last the whole encounter because they have so few spell slots.
Many warlock players make the mistake of taking flashy damage spells. They will quickly run out of spell slots and have to resort to spamming EB. The spells you should really look for are buffs and debuffs that last the whole adventuring day, like hex and armor of agathys. EB should be your damage, your spell slots should be precious.
They should be precious and not wasted on a mid quality spells like armor of agathys. It lasts a hour which is alright but not long enough for rest manipulation and it does very little for the course of your battles ahead.
IT IS NOT MID QUALITY! It’s 15* damage every time you get hit for an hour! Compare that to burning hands, which is avg. 17.5* damage to a few targets once! Armor of Agathys does so much more damage over the course of the adventuring day. And it doesn’t even require concentration!
*For a level 5 warlock
Oh, i forgot to mention that it also gives you 15 temp hp (cast at level 3)
i feel like agathys makes a lot of sense as an "i want to do this" pick if you seek melee, and less sense as a just-in-case or a deterrent toward melee enemies.
part of that is knowing your dm. i think it's not great dming to run mobs like they play 90s computer games in their spare time. in my experience most DMs run combat with the fog of war and roleplaying front and center. so most of the time, most enemies are dealing with the most immediate alarming PCs. not all the time, but seeking the backline PC behind cover should come from higher knowledge of the party and preparation, in a way that ideally amps up immersion and drama.
ANYWAAAY if you're avoiding melee but agathys really is majorly helpful, i feel like that means either you are fighting so so much that yes of course take it, you're in Diablo 10, you need it,
or, your DM is somewhat of an optimizer or a war gamer or, you know not "antagonistic", but part of the fun they connect to is in the complications, being cheeky. if you don't fight constantly but a ranged warlock still kinda needs agathys w/ 2 slots, that's a cheeky dm.
so just for the purposes of a forum and general talk or advice, agathys feels high tier for some common warlock roles, or a particular kind of campaign, but there's a decent drop-off once you aren't looking for melee, or you're only in one major combat per session.
So, this has turned into armor of ag debate. Sure.
Wellll.....
*clears throat*
In my opinion, warlocks should avoid getting hit in the first place. We're not the squishiest of squishy (wizards be like) but we are still... kind of squishy.
That came out wrong.
Anyways, the spells you have have a range. Hex, for instance, has a range of 90 feet. Stay back at 90 feet away and spam hex. Why should you get closer?
Darkness. The spell warlocks cast to cripple the enemy--and possibly their own party as well. Stay 60 feet away and we are good.
Hold Person. 60 feet range. Stay 60 feet away.
Now, let me ask you this question. Why do we need Armor of Ag?
To tank hits? Warlocks don't do that. To deal damage? Uh, EB! Because we think we're going to get hit? Uh, actually, tell me of an enemy who can hit you from say 60 feet or more away, with tanks in the way.
I'll wait.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian