So I'm looking to build a hexblade warlock with some levels of paladin. I definitely want more Warlock than Paladin, but I will be starting with Paladin just for the armour proficiencies and general benefits of starting with a Paladin over a Warlock. Here's my problem. If I'm starting level 5, I have no idea how to distribute my levels. It seems like this combo doesn't really come alive completelt until overall level 7?
I can either go 2 levels of Paladin, 3 levels of Warlock to get my divine smite right away, but then delay getting my extra attack from Thirsting Blade even further, or go 1 level Paladin and 4 levels Warlock to get to my extra attack sooner. What's an overall better option here? I know people tend to go more towards Paladin levels than Warlock levels, generally taking only 3 levels of Warlock from what I've seen, but this character is meant to be more Warlock with some buffs from Paladin (though I also don't know where to stop with Paladin, as it always seems like there's a feature coming up that's useful no matter where you stop).
For context, I'm going with a Glaive wielding character, so I need at least 3 levels of Warlock to get my Blade pact boon so I can use a Glaive as my Hex Weapon. GWM and Polearm Master will be priorities, which also makes 1Paladin 4Warlock appealing, as I get that second feat sooner (I'll get an initial feat from Variant Human, because I'm so original and quirky and nobody has ever created a character like this before).
I think it'll be fine either way, I can make it work and honestly my group that I play with barely know the rules, and that includes the DM (I am our resident rules referee because none of them could truly be bothered to read the books and I thrive on that kind of thing), so they don't exactly optimise massively, but the DM not fully knowing all the rules does mean we sometimes get quite unbalanced fights and that means it's time for me to actually step up my game and play a bit more min/maxy to help us get through more effectively, which I try not to do in a normal, more balanced fight. I worry that if my character is too awkward to make work that we'll just completely flop in combat if that kind of scenario comes up. Any help is appreciated, including people telling me thus build isn't going to work. As much as I know much more about the rules than the others in my small group, we've not been playing for too too long, and sessions aren't hugely consistent due to scheduling conflicts, so knowing and experiencing the rules are 2 very different things.
There’s a helpful YouTube video by Dungeon Dudes on this, but it is still very complex and relies on taking Variant Human or Custom Lineage with the Great Weapon Master Feat to function until you get the option to hit twice (first as a Warlock through Eldritch Invocation and then retrain it once you reach level 5 as a Paladin and get Extra Attack.) It’s not nearly as easy to run as a Paladin/Bard or Paladin/Sorcerer where you just take 5-7 levels of Paladin straight off the bat.
In your situation, I would indeed start at Paladin and not only take the three levels of Warlock but go to 5 for the extra attack eldritch invocation. Then I would go back to Paladin and get to level 5 (if not 6 ) on it so you can unlock extra attack on it and retrain your eldritch invocation on your next warlock level up.
I've played this build (well, something really similar) and I can definitely tell you with confidence it's pretty sweet. If you're wanting to play as a warlock with paladin buffs, paladin 6/warlock 14 is the build for you! I personally did 13 paladin, 7 warlock, but in tier 1 and tier 2 i was mostly warlock levels.
Since you're starting at lvl 5, go with 2 paladin, 3 warlock. Whatever you do, make sure you take agonizing blast as one of your invocations. I would also recommend taking green flame blade or booming blade as one of your cantrips. So, even if you don't have extra attack, you still have two strong EB shots per cast, and your GFB/BB is stronger than just attacking once with your attack action. You're keeping up thanks to cantrips and their inherent scaling.
From here, your choices are to level up paladin to 6 or go for warlock 5. Now, when I played this build, I went for warlock 5 because I wanted to unlock thirsting blade ASAP, however, I learned about a weird puberty interaction with invocations and leveling up paladin. Sure, I had thirsting blade, but when I went to level up paladin, I couldn't just switch out my thirsting blade invocation after unlocking extra attack on paladin. RAW, you have to level up in warlock to switch invocations out, so there would be a moment where you're living with a wasted invocation, and you won't be able to switch it out until you push warlock to 6 (which is a tall order because you're so close to leveling up paladin to 6 for the aura). Now, this isn't actually a big deal if you never take thirsting blade as one of your invocations to begin with. In fact, I'd recommend that you DON'T take thirsting blade, and just wait to unlock extra attack via paladin levels instead. Again, cantrips will be your saving grace here. At this point, you're playing mostly as a warlock that is simply wearing armor and can use good weaponry when casting their cantrips.
As for invocations that aren't Agonizing Blast, you could go for Devil's Sight since you're a variant human (though, if you take Blessed Warrior fighting style from paladin you could just pick up the Light cantrip to shore up this weakness), though I'd recommend Improved Pact Weapon if your DM didn't start you off with a magical +1 weapon. If your DM does give you a +1 glaive/halberd at the start of the campaign, and if you have a method to see in the dark without devils sight (could come from party members or w/e), then your invocation choices are just up to personal preference.
My hexadin build was a crit fishing build (highly effective with Elven Accuracy, Vow of Enmity, and Hexblade's Curse btw) that utilized double smite with divine and eldritch smite. The idea was really cool at the time, with the potential to deal like 100 damage at lvl 7. However, after playing it, I think I'd skip out on eldritch smite invocation in favor of more spellcaster-y invocations like misty visions or mask of many faces, or whatever really, and instead use those spell slots on actually casting spells to help the party out. Hexadins can be built in a lot of different ways, I went with burst, I think I'd like to try a more rounded-out utility based hexadin. but this is just me looking back with 20/20 hindsight.
Thank you both, it's good to know that it can be effective no matter whether I go 2paladin 3warlock or 1paladin 4warlock. I'm actually pretty excited to play this build, and you both had great advice for where to go with it
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So I'm looking to build a hexblade warlock with some levels of paladin. I definitely want more Warlock than Paladin, but I will be starting with Paladin just for the armour proficiencies and general benefits of starting with a Paladin over a Warlock. Here's my problem. If I'm starting level 5, I have no idea how to distribute my levels. It seems like this combo doesn't really come alive completelt until overall level 7?
I can either go 2 levels of Paladin, 3 levels of Warlock to get my divine smite right away, but then delay getting my extra attack from Thirsting Blade even further, or go 1 level Paladin and 4 levels Warlock to get to my extra attack sooner. What's an overall better option here? I know people tend to go more towards Paladin levels than Warlock levels, generally taking only 3 levels of Warlock from what I've seen, but this character is meant to be more Warlock with some buffs from Paladin (though I also don't know where to stop with Paladin, as it always seems like there's a feature coming up that's useful no matter where you stop).
For context, I'm going with a Glaive wielding character, so I need at least 3 levels of Warlock to get my Blade pact boon so I can use a Glaive as my Hex Weapon. GWM and Polearm Master will be priorities, which also makes 1Paladin 4Warlock appealing, as I get that second feat sooner (I'll get an initial feat from Variant Human, because I'm so original and quirky and nobody has ever created a character like this before).
I think it'll be fine either way, I can make it work and honestly my group that I play with barely know the rules, and that includes the DM (I am our resident rules referee because none of them could truly be bothered to read the books and I thrive on that kind of thing), so they don't exactly optimise massively, but the DM not fully knowing all the rules does mean we sometimes get quite unbalanced fights and that means it's time for me to actually step up my game and play a bit more min/maxy to help us get through more effectively, which I try not to do in a normal, more balanced fight. I worry that if my character is too awkward to make work that we'll just completely flop in combat if that kind of scenario comes up. Any help is appreciated, including people telling me thus build isn't going to work. As much as I know much more about the rules than the others in my small group, we've not been playing for too too long, and sessions aren't hugely consistent due to scheduling conflicts, so knowing and experiencing the rules are 2 very different things.
There’s a helpful YouTube video by Dungeon Dudes on this, but it is still very complex and relies on taking Variant Human or Custom Lineage with the Great Weapon Master Feat to function until you get the option to hit twice (first as a Warlock through Eldritch Invocation and then retrain it once you reach level 5 as a Paladin and get Extra Attack.) It’s not nearly as easy to run as a Paladin/Bard or Paladin/Sorcerer where you just take 5-7 levels of Paladin straight off the bat.
In your situation, I would indeed start at Paladin and not only take the three levels of Warlock but go to 5 for the extra attack eldritch invocation. Then I would go back to Paladin and get to level 5 (if not 6 ) on it so you can unlock extra attack on it and retrain your eldritch invocation on your next warlock level up.
I've played this build (well, something really similar) and I can definitely tell you with confidence it's pretty sweet. If you're wanting to play as a warlock with paladin buffs, paladin 6/warlock 14 is the build for you! I personally did 13 paladin, 7 warlock, but in tier 1 and tier 2 i was mostly warlock levels.
Since you're starting at lvl 5, go with 2 paladin, 3 warlock. Whatever you do, make sure you take agonizing blast as one of your invocations. I would also recommend taking green flame blade or booming blade as one of your cantrips. So, even if you don't have extra attack, you still have two strong EB shots per cast, and your GFB/BB is stronger than just attacking once with your attack action. You're keeping up thanks to cantrips and their inherent scaling.
From here, your choices are to level up paladin to 6 or go for warlock 5. Now, when I played this build, I went for warlock 5 because I wanted to unlock thirsting blade ASAP, however, I learned about a weird puberty interaction with invocations and leveling up paladin. Sure, I had thirsting blade, but when I went to level up paladin, I couldn't just switch out my thirsting blade invocation after unlocking extra attack on paladin. RAW, you have to level up in warlock to switch invocations out, so there would be a moment where you're living with a wasted invocation, and you won't be able to switch it out until you push warlock to 6 (which is a tall order because you're so close to leveling up paladin to 6 for the aura). Now, this isn't actually a big deal if you never take thirsting blade as one of your invocations to begin with. In fact, I'd recommend that you DON'T take thirsting blade, and just wait to unlock extra attack via paladin levels instead. Again, cantrips will be your saving grace here. At this point, you're playing mostly as a warlock that is simply wearing armor and can use good weaponry when casting their cantrips.
As for invocations that aren't Agonizing Blast, you could go for Devil's Sight since you're a variant human (though, if you take Blessed Warrior fighting style from paladin you could just pick up the Light cantrip to shore up this weakness), though I'd recommend Improved Pact Weapon if your DM didn't start you off with a magical +1 weapon. If your DM does give you a +1 glaive/halberd at the start of the campaign, and if you have a method to see in the dark without devils sight (could come from party members or w/e), then your invocation choices are just up to personal preference.
My hexadin build was a crit fishing build (highly effective with Elven Accuracy, Vow of Enmity, and Hexblade's Curse btw) that utilized double smite with divine and eldritch smite. The idea was really cool at the time, with the potential to deal like 100 damage at lvl 7. However, after playing it, I think I'd skip out on eldritch smite invocation in favor of more spellcaster-y invocations like misty visions or mask of many faces, or whatever really, and instead use those spell slots on actually casting spells to help the party out. Hexadins can be built in a lot of different ways, I went with burst, I think I'd like to try a more rounded-out utility based hexadin. but this is just me looking back with 20/20 hindsight.
Thank you both, it's good to know that it can be effective no matter whether I go 2paladin 3warlock or 1paladin 4warlock. I'm actually pretty excited to play this build, and you both had great advice for where to go with it