Getting this at level one feels off to me. They upgraded a lot of these and now the imp is kind of crazy powerful. Its a better fighter than the fighter at levels 1-2 or 3. I wish they had gone with a template model that scaled with your levels. As the way it works now, its insanely overpowered tier 1, and then drops off hard to the point its your invisible scout, no other investment in it is really worth it. Some generic template, you choose what it looks like, it comes with a list of potential abilities you can add onto it, invisibility, attacks, senses etc. Let its hit points scale up but make sure it starts low not at like 20+ hit points.
WotC still haven't fixed the companion classes & builds it seems. Chain really could have been so much more, they definitely should have got bonus HP, AC and damage with level far more than they do.
I completely agree. It's not just the imp, the sphynx is also completely overpowered at level 1. I think they should have received a similar treatment as Summon spells or the Beast Master. Let them scale with your level, use your spellcasting modifier, etc. The familiar gets to use your spell save DC, but not your spell attack modifier. So at higher levels, good luck hitting anyone.
I'm not saying they should be as powerful as an animal companion or as a Summon. They're still supposed to be this little creature that travels with you. But at least be a little less useless as you level up (in terms of combat, since that's the focus of at least one invocation).
Getting this at level one feels off to me. They upgraded a lot of these and now the imp is kind of crazy powerful. Its a better fighter than the fighter at levels 1-2 or 3. I wish they had gone with a template model that scaled with your levels. As the way it works now, its insanely overpowered tier 1, and then drops off hard to the point its your invisible scout, no other investment in it is really worth it. Some generic template, you choose what it looks like, it comes with a list of potential abilities you can add onto it, invisibility, attacks, senses etc. Let its hit points scale up but make sure it starts low not at like 20+ hit points.
The imp is also good in Tier 2 with Gaze of Two Minds - a flying invisible turret. But I agree that it does drop off and there should be ways of scaling it.
There's been extremely heavy debate on the casting time for the spell. A lot would say it still takes a hour. Just that it doesn't consume a spell slot for pact of the chain. Would argue it's only a 6 second cast time,but others have become adamant of the reverse where you start the cast with a magic action and would still need to perform the additional 599 magic actions to finish the spell.
What’s even worse is they got rid of half the eldritch invocations that went with it! There goes my Celestial Warlock build!
They didn't get rid of those invocations, it is a programming issue with DnD Beyond (confirmed by Mods in other threads). When they put Invocations into DnD Beyond, they did so as class features (unlike Feats that could be selected by anyone with the right pre-requisites). Since the 2024 Warlock (and subclasses) are in the system as a completely different class - they would need to re-enter all of the invocations as class features for those new classes.
It doesn't look likely that they are going to do so anytime soon.
You can still choose them, you can still use them, but the only way to have it on your character in DnD Beyond is to homebrew them as a Feat. Only content in the PHB was changed by the release of the new PHB, all other content from all other sources remains unchanged and available in game (but they way DnD Beyond was programmed has prevented them from being able to include it with the new 2024 classes).
To be honest, what they need to do is a complete re-write of their entire code. Remember, DnD Beyond started as a much smaller program, able to handle content available at the time. AS more and more books came out, with more and more abilities that interacted in previously unknown ways, they basically 'patched' the code to make it work. Patch after patch has turned it into a tangle of spaghetti, and now there's no way to get some things to work without a complete re-write (good luck getting the time and money for that from Hasbro).
As for Pact of the Chain familiars being useless, I would disagree. I'm playing a Level 11 Genie Warlock Pact of the Chain, and my Sprite familiar (reskinned to look like a genie) has better stats than most of the party, and actually kicks butt in a fight with it's 1pt damage magical arrows (2014 version with sleep toxin and my spell DC). In 2024 they get rid of the toxin (no more putting the main baddie to sleep early on in the fight due to a missed save roll), but we're just converting to 2024 at this next game so we'll see what happens after that.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
If at level 11 your 2014 sprite has better stats than most the party, your party is significantly and that is putting it mildly under powered. It has 2 hit points, an Ac of 15 and a +6 to hit on its one weak attack. By level 11 on the low end your party should have +7 to hit, a higher AC, much better hit points, multiple attacks etc.
They aren't useless at almost any level, they will remain decent invisible scouts, but their combat capability fades out quick no matter how much you invest in it, and in 2024 their combat capability is far too high at very low levels like 1-4. There really isn't much of a happy medium for them either.
If at level 11 your 2014 sprite has better stats than most the party, your party is significantly and that is putting it mildly under powered. It has 2 hit points, an Ac of 15 and a +6 to hit on its one weak attack. By level 11 on the low end your party should have +7 to hit, a higher AC, much better hit points, multiple attacks etc.
They aren't useless at almost any level, they will remain decent invisible scouts, but their combat capability fades out quick no matter how much you invest in it, and in 2024 their combat capability is far too high at very low levels like 1-4. There really isn't much of a happy medium for them either.
I meant it's ability scores (we used point buy). The running joke in the group is that this familiar will end up being the main villain at the end. It always rolls high, almost never fails a roll, and baddies almost always fail saves against it.
I didn't mean to imply (and didn't think I would need to actually say) that a 2hp Sprite was more powerful than an 11th level character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
If at level 11 your 2014 sprite has better stats than most the party, your party is significantly and that is putting it mildly under powered. It has 2 hit points, an Ac of 15 and a +6 to hit on its one weak attack. By level 11 on the low end your party should have +7 to hit, a higher AC, much better hit points, multiple attacks etc.
They aren't useless at almost any level, they will remain decent invisible scouts, but their combat capability fades out quick no matter how much you invest in it, and in 2024 their combat capability is far too high at very low levels like 1-4. There really isn't much of a happy medium for them either.
I meant it's ability scores (we used point buy). The running joke in the group is that this familiar will end up being the main villain at the end. It always rolls high, almost never fails a roll, and baddies almost always fail saves against it.
I didn't mean to imply (and didn't think I would need to actually say) that a 2hp Sprite was more powerful than an 11th level character.
Even its ability scores with point buy it should not be better than the PCs it has 3, 18, 10, 14,13,11 that is well below 25 points after racial bonuses alone even before 2 ASIs. It is only trained in stealth and perception and only really good at stealth. And while sure its possible for your DM to botch con saves multiple times, its a DC 5 con save to avoid going unconscious, at level 11 I suspect most enemies only fail on a 1 if they can fail at all. And yeah sure, you can get lucky on rolls and succeed on all checks it makes even when not trained in them, but that is a fluke roll not something that shows it as a powerful ally.
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Getting this at level one feels off to me. They upgraded a lot of these and now the imp is kind of crazy powerful. Its a better fighter than the fighter at levels 1-2 or 3. I wish they had gone with a template model that scaled with your levels. As the way it works now, its insanely overpowered tier 1, and then drops off hard to the point its your invisible scout, no other investment in it is really worth it. Some generic template, you choose what it looks like, it comes with a list of potential abilities you can add onto it, invisibility, attacks, senses etc. Let its hit points scale up but make sure it starts low not at like 20+ hit points.
WotC still haven't fixed the companion classes & builds it seems. Chain really could have been so much more, they definitely should have got bonus HP, AC and damage with level far more than they do.
I completely agree. It's not just the imp, the sphynx is also completely overpowered at level 1. I think they should have received a similar treatment as Summon spells or the Beast Master. Let them scale with your level, use your spellcasting modifier, etc. The familiar gets to use your spell save DC, but not your spell attack modifier. So at higher levels, good luck hitting anyone.
I'm not saying they should be as powerful as an animal companion or as a Summon. They're still supposed to be this little creature that travels with you. But at least be a little less useless as you level up (in terms of combat, since that's the focus of at least one invocation).
What’s even worse is they got rid of half the eldritch invocations that went with it! There goes my Celestial Warlock build!
The imp is also good in Tier 2 with Gaze of Two Minds - a flying invisible turret. But I agree that it does drop off and there should be ways of scaling it.
There's been extremely heavy debate on the casting time for the spell. A lot would say it still takes a hour. Just that it doesn't consume a spell slot for pact of the chain. Would argue it's only a 6 second cast time,but others have become adamant of the reverse where you start the cast with a magic action and would still need to perform the additional 599 magic actions to finish the spell.
Nicholas E Partin
They didn't get rid of those invocations, it is a programming issue with DnD Beyond (confirmed by Mods in other threads). When they put Invocations into DnD Beyond, they did so as class features (unlike Feats that could be selected by anyone with the right pre-requisites). Since the 2024 Warlock (and subclasses) are in the system as a completely different class - they would need to re-enter all of the invocations as class features for those new classes.
It doesn't look likely that they are going to do so anytime soon.
You can still choose them, you can still use them, but the only way to have it on your character in DnD Beyond is to homebrew them as a Feat. Only content in the PHB was changed by the release of the new PHB, all other content from all other sources remains unchanged and available in game (but they way DnD Beyond was programmed has prevented them from being able to include it with the new 2024 classes).
To be honest, what they need to do is a complete re-write of their entire code. Remember, DnD Beyond started as a much smaller program, able to handle content available at the time. AS more and more books came out, with more and more abilities that interacted in previously unknown ways, they basically 'patched' the code to make it work. Patch after patch has turned it into a tangle of spaghetti, and now there's no way to get some things to work without a complete re-write (good luck getting the time and money for that from Hasbro).
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
As for Pact of the Chain familiars being useless, I would disagree. I'm playing a Level 11 Genie Warlock Pact of the Chain, and my Sprite familiar (reskinned to look like a genie) has better stats than most of the party, and actually kicks butt in a fight with it's 1pt damage magical arrows (2014 version with sleep toxin and my spell DC). In 2024 they get rid of the toxin (no more putting the main baddie to sleep early on in the fight due to a missed save roll), but we're just converting to 2024 at this next game so we'll see what happens after that.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
If at level 11 your 2014 sprite has better stats than most the party, your party is significantly and that is putting it mildly under powered. It has 2 hit points, an Ac of 15 and a +6 to hit on its one weak attack. By level 11 on the low end your party should have +7 to hit, a higher AC, much better hit points, multiple attacks etc.
They aren't useless at almost any level, they will remain decent invisible scouts, but their combat capability fades out quick no matter how much you invest in it, and in 2024 their combat capability is far too high at very low levels like 1-4. There really isn't much of a happy medium for them either.
I meant it's ability scores (we used point buy). The running joke in the group is that this familiar will end up being the main villain at the end. It always rolls high, almost never fails a roll, and baddies almost always fail saves against it.
I didn't mean to imply (and didn't think I would need to actually say) that a 2hp Sprite was more powerful than an 11th level character.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Even its ability scores with point buy it should not be better than the PCs it has 3, 18, 10, 14,13,11 that is well below 25 points after racial bonuses alone even before 2 ASIs. It is only trained in stealth and perception and only really good at stealth. And while sure its possible for your DM to botch con saves multiple times, its a DC 5 con save to avoid going unconscious, at level 11 I suspect most enemies only fail on a 1 if they can fail at all. And yeah sure, you can get lucky on rolls and succeed on all checks it makes even when not trained in them, but that is a fluke roll not something that shows it as a powerful ally.