so, most commonly when somebody plays a warlock, they choose a god, or some eldritch horror as their patron.
BUT there are no rules stating my patron couldn't be a rat that lives in my helmet, some homeless wizard i met on the street, or a ghost attached to me. what's the limit here?
The limit is what your DM will allow. If it were me, I’d need a reason the rat in your helmet is able to confer otherworldly powers upon you. But that would only matter if you were playing at my table. Other DMs might just give it a no or a yes without any more detail.
Side note: By RAW, warlock patrons are typically not gods. But, again, it’s up to what your DM will allow.
The limit is what your DM will allow. If it were me, I’d need a reason the rat in your helmet is able to confer otherworldly powers upon you. But that would only matter if you were playing at my table. Other DMs might just give it a no or a yes without any more detail.
Side note: By RAW, warlock patrons are typically not gods. But, again, it’s up to what your DM will allow.
First, I said “typically” meaning it can be but usually is not. Gods have clerics, they don’t need warlocks. Yes, a god can create a warlock, they just tend not to.
Second “Your patron is a powerful being of the Upper Planes. You have bound yourself to an ancient empyrean, solar, ki-rin, unicorn, or other entity that resides in the planes of everlasting bliss.”
None of those listed options are gods with the possible exception of “other entity.” But considering the list given, gods are not likely to be one of those other entities.
so, most commonly when somebody plays a warlock, they choose a god, or some eldritch horror as their patron.
BUT there are no rules stating my patron couldn't be a rat that lives in my helmet, some homeless wizard i met on the street, or a ghost attached to me. what's the limit here?
The limit is someone or something that would be effectively powerful enough to actually allow you to siphon power from them and either not notice it or it is so little power that it doesn't matter. As such, a rat is not a very good patron. A wizard or particular power could be, just as long as it makes sense. There is no point in the game that you should ever be more powerful than your patron, since your power comes from them.
so, most commonly when somebody plays a warlock, they choose a god, or some eldritch horror as their patron.
BUT there are no rules stating my patron couldn't be a rat that lives in my helmet, some homeless wizard i met on the street, or a ghost attached to me. what's the limit here?
The limit is someone or something that would be effectively powerful enough to actually allow you to siphon power from them and either not notice it or it is so little power that it doesn't matter. As such, a rat is not a very good patron. A wizard or particular power could be, just as long as it makes sense. There is no point in the game that you should ever be more powerful than your patron, since your power comes from them.
It is not explicit either way, but in general I think it implied the start of your power came from them, how it grows is from you.
The lowest level patron that I am aware of being specifically called out as acceptable is a CR5 Unicorn. My current warlock, has a CR4 Succubus, but she's not powerful enough and had to cut a side deal to feed me more power beyond level 4.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
so, most commonly when somebody plays a warlock, they choose a god, or some eldritch horror as their patron.
BUT there are no rules stating my patron couldn't be a rat that lives in my helmet, some homeless wizard i met on the street, or a ghost attached to me. what's the limit here?
The limit is someone or something that would be effectively powerful enough to actually allow you to siphon power from them and either not notice it or it is so little power that it doesn't matter. As such, a rat is not a very good patron. A wizard or particular power could be, just as long as it makes sense. There is no point in the game that you should ever be more powerful than your patron, since your power comes from them.
It is not explicit either way, but in general I think it implied the start of your power came from them, how it grows is from you.
It would be silly if your patron was an imp for example and as a level 3 PC you would be 5x more powerful than your patron and could kill him by blinking.
so, most commonly when somebody plays a warlock, they choose a god, or some eldritch horror as their patron.
BUT there are no rules stating my patron couldn't be a rat that lives in my helmet, some homeless wizard i met on the street, or a ghost attached to me. what's the limit here?
The limit is someone or something that would be effectively powerful enough to actually allow you to siphon power from them and either not notice it or it is so little power that it doesn't matter. As such, a rat is not a very good patron. A wizard or particular power could be, just as long as it makes sense. There is no point in the game that you should ever be more powerful than your patron, since your power comes from them.
It is not explicit either way, but in general I think it implied the start of your power came from them, how it grows is from you.
It would be silly if your patron was an imp for example and as a level 3 PC you would be 5x more powerful than your patron and could kill him by blinking.
I don't think an imp could give even the start of power to be a warlock. For fiend they used to specify an exceptionally powerful pit fiend which would be probably CR 22+. My point is I don't think the fiend is a direct link to your level 20 powers, they got your start, but you grew it to 20. Which is why your patron can't just take your powers away, they gave you a one-time hit of juju juice. I don't think you are siphoning power from them, you got the power, it is now yours. Now it should be a crazy powerful being imo that you'd never be able to defeat outside maybe some end campaign, whole party joins in thing.
They do mention a unicorn, but IMO this is not intended to be a unicorn in a forest somewhere but some celestial patron of unicorns. That being said its all in the DMs hands.
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so, most commonly when somebody plays a warlock, they choose a god, or some eldritch horror as their patron.
BUT there are no rules stating my patron couldn't be a rat that lives in my helmet, some homeless wizard i met on the street, or a ghost attached to me. what's the limit here?
The limit is what your DM will allow. If it were me, I’d need a reason the rat in your helmet is able to confer otherworldly powers upon you. But that would only matter if you were playing at my table. Other DMs might just give it a no or a yes without any more detail.
Side note: By RAW, warlock patrons are typically not gods. But, again, it’s up to what your DM will allow.
The Celestial Warlock patron can be a god.
First, I said “typically” meaning it can be but usually is not. Gods have clerics, they don’t need warlocks. Yes, a god can create a warlock, they just tend not to.
Second “Your patron is a powerful being of the Upper Planes. You have bound yourself to an ancient empyrean, solar, ki-rin, unicorn, or other entity that resides in the planes of everlasting bliss.”
None of those listed options are gods with the possible exception of “other entity.” But considering the list given, gods are not likely to be one of those other entities.
The limit is someone or something that would be effectively powerful enough to actually allow you to siphon power from them and either not notice it or it is so little power that it doesn't matter. As such, a rat is not a very good patron. A wizard or particular power could be, just as long as it makes sense. There is no point in the game that you should ever be more powerful than your patron, since your power comes from them.
It is not explicit either way, but in general I think it implied the start of your power came from them, how it grows is from you.
The lowest level patron that I am aware of being specifically called out as acceptable is a CR5 Unicorn. My current warlock, has a CR4 Succubus, but she's not powerful enough and had to cut a side deal to feed me more power beyond level 4.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It would be silly if your patron was an imp for example and as a level 3 PC you would be 5x more powerful than your patron and could kill him by blinking.
I don't think an imp could give even the start of power to be a warlock. For fiend they used to specify an exceptionally powerful pit fiend which would be probably CR 22+. My point is I don't think the fiend is a direct link to your level 20 powers, they got your start, but you grew it to 20. Which is why your patron can't just take your powers away, they gave you a one-time hit of juju juice. I don't think you are siphoning power from them, you got the power, it is now yours. Now it should be a crazy powerful being imo that you'd never be able to defeat outside maybe some end campaign, whole party joins in thing.
They do mention a unicorn, but IMO this is not intended to be a unicorn in a forest somewhere but some celestial patron of unicorns. That being said its all in the DMs hands.