My patron is Graz'zt, I used to be a fighter hunting down cults where ever I found them as my son had been abducted by a cult. Got myself in over my head when I attacked a cult gathering turned out to be a lot bigger than I expected, but Graz'zt was there destroying them as it was a cult to Orcus. I threw a sword at a cultist that was about to stab Graz'zt in the back not realising that he was a demon and it wouldn't really affect him. I managed to impress him and he granted me a portion of his power as long as I carried on destroying cults (except for his) wherever I found them. I woke up the next morning with none of my previous fighting abilities, but new found powers.
I have also (for a laugh) created a new patron on DMSGuild, "The Demon Princess" - She is fascinated by mortal relationships so only grants power to a couple in a relationship. Gives bonuses when the two characters are together. And she can scry on them whenever she wishes and no magic can protect from her voyeuristic tendencies lol
Hello.A Bronze Dragon! My DM agreed to allow my patron to be the Fiend, except the Fiend was a Bronze Dragon instead of a demon or devil. The character is a dragon born warlock and the fiend spell list matches well with dragon based lore...fireball, flame-strike etc. It is also a "loop hole" so to speak. The fiend of course is demonic/deviish and essentially evil leaning, but the bronze dragon in this case good and is aligned against Tiamat. So my character can be chaotic good without the bane of evil lurking over him and demanding he complete evil tasks. The party is made up of primarily good folk including a goody-two shoes cleric who seeks out and destroys evil. #partyharmony!
I came up with a disembodied/Archfey patron that acts like a ghost that the warlock interacts with all five senses.
My male fighter-champion saves/releases this entity from confinement from an evil caster. The entity/she decides she likes him and decides to "haunt" him. They can touch each other, he can see her and smell her perfume, but no one else is aware of her exists unless she interacts with them.
I wanted a "pact of the chain" type patron the way Hexblades are meant to be "pact of the blade" patrons. In that there is expected to be a physical representation of the pact. The entity more or less acting as a familiar option.
My warlock (now a Bardlock after this week's session) went full Faustian with Dispater as his patron. Even chose Pact of the Chain for the awesome imp sidekick. Our campaign has a fair share of world-building and political intrigue, so as the warlock entrenches into the power seats of the empire, Dispater's influence reaches even more potential. Really hasn't been any demands yet. Kind of tough to force a person to do bad things when they are more than willing to do them on their own.
I actually got to play the celestial warlock I mentioned early in the thread.
He was a deadbeat, absent, alcoholic dad. Until his kid got hit by a coach and died. He was willing to make any deal to bring her back and, lucky for him, a celestial answered first. The price was to sober up and to go out and help people with his powers.
Whenever he was under a significant amount of stress, I'd roll will saves to see if he would drink and lose his powers in the process.
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Vote here for an interim solution for homebrew classes:
Call me basic, but I just love the Fiend patron for Warlocks. I do this all the time, and enjoy running a lawful evil character who constantly keeps the party on their toes.
9 times out of 10, my Warlock is part of The Cult of Asmodeus or something similar, and his main job is to convince as many souls as possible to go sell their souls to him, and with the friends cantrip, this is ridiculously easy. The best part is watching my party of good aligned martial classes try to figure out how to get me to stop without killing memes or driving me off, because I’m the only caster they have. It’s like watching a toddler, you take your eyes off ‘em for one second and they’re doing something crazy.
”Ok well- WAIT, WHERES THE WARLOCK!?” Cue sounds of infernal chanting from the nearest tavern while screams pierce the now shattered calm of the city. The ensuing encounter goes something like, “WHAT DID YOU DO?” “My job.” -closes my book of soul contracts- “I just got another dozen or so. We should probably go before the guards come to investigate.”
I personally think that they should have made the ability to use Charisma on attack and damage rolls, instead or Strength or Dexterity, an Invocation available to all Warlocks. :)
It should have been a standard part of Pact of the Blade, and proficiency with medium armour and shields should have been a standard part of Warlocks.
But the Hexblade features are basically what was necessary to make the Pact of the Blade Warlock comparable to the standard Warlock. A melee character needs good AC (which required devoting ASIs to dex if you don't have medium/heavy armour) and strength for wielding most of the big weapons, and decent constitution for HP (when you're only a D8 class), and of course they still need Cha for casting because they are a Warlock.
So the Hexblade changes mean you don't need strength at all, and you only need 14 dexterity to get 19AC with medium armour and shield, so you can start with 8/14/15/10/10/17 and take Resilient (Con) at some point. Take a half feat (fey/shadow touched) to get 18 Cha, then an ASI for 20, and then you still have two ASIs to take as feats (PAM and GWM if you're maximizing melee power, other things if optimizing melee isn't that much of a concern). Of course the Hexblade is still very invocation heavy, needing improved pact weapon, thirsting blade, lifedrinker, and possibly eldritch smite. Eldritch mind helps with maintaining concentration (I wish Warlocks had better concentration spells to take, spirit shroud is probably the most damaging option for a melee Warlock) so that's another slot. Might as well take agonizing blast as you are a Warlock after all. At level 12 that's all of your six invocations locked into your build.
I personally think that they should have made the ability to use Charisma on attack and damage rolls, instead or Strength or Dexterity, an Invocation available to all Warlocks. :)
It should have been a standard part of Pact of the Blade, and proficiency with medium armour and shields should have been a standard part of Warlocks.
But the Hexblade features are basically what was necessary to make the Pact of the Blade Warlock comparable to the standard Warlock. A melee character needs good AC (which required devoting ASIs to dex if you don't have medium/heavy armour) and strength for wielding most of the big weapons, and decent constitution for HP (when you're only a D8 class), and of course they still need Cha for casting because they are a Warlock.
So the Hexblade changes mean you don't need strength at all, and you only need 14 dexterity to get 19AC with medium armour and shield, so you can start with 8/14/15/10/10/17 and take Resilient (Con) at some point. Take a half feat (fey/shadow touched) to get 18 Cha, then an ASI for 20, and then you still have two ASIs to take as feats (PAM and GWM if you're maximizing melee power, other things if optimizing melee isn't that much of a concern). Of course the Hexblade is still very invocation heavy, needing improved pact weapon, thirsting blade, lifedrinker, and possibly eldritch smite. Eldritch mind helps with maintaining concentration (I wish Warlocks had better concentration spells to take, spirit shroud is probably the most damaging option for a melee Warlock) so that's another slot. Might as well take agonizing blast as you are a Warlock after all. At level 12 that's all of your six invocations locked into your build.
What you are describing is one of the issues with warlocks. Yeah you can go off build but too often until level 15+ everything you have is almost a forced choice for a build. The pacts a supposedly defining feature of your class only really do anything once you invest invocations, chain less so but tome woo 3 cantrips, blade woo a weapon you will suck at using, heck even if it was default chr based it would only be useful for levels 3 and 4. Effectively needing a invocation just to make your pact feature actually feel like it does what it is supposed to do is kind of lame. At the very least, the rituals should be built into tome, thirsting blade into blade(along with chr) and voice into chain. And while yes you can ignore your pact, as is some of the invocations just feel like a invocation tax.
Female Drow Undead Warlock with Kiransalee (the insane banshee) as patron ..... is she a God? Is she a myth? Is she jut a crazy undead? .... usually with a wizard dip.
Because Kiransalee is bat-shit crazy it makes the thematics pretty easy - "I don't know why she wants you doing that, she is chaotic and insane you know"
I think Undead warlock is the most powerful mechanically, beating Hexblade by quite a bit IME.
I personally think that they should have made the ability to use Charisma on attack and damage rolls, instead or Strength or Dexterity, an Invocation available to all Warlocks. :)
It should have been a standard part of Pact of the Blade, and proficiency with medium armour and shields should have been a standard part of Warlocks.
But the Hexblade features are basically what was necessary to make the Pact of the Blade Warlock comparable to the standard Warlock. A melee character needs good AC (which required devoting ASIs to dex if you don't have medium/heavy armour) and strength for wielding most of the big weapons, and decent constitution for HP (when you're only a D8 class), and of course they still need Cha for casting because they are a Warlock.
So the Hexblade changes mean you don't need strength at all, and you only need 14 dexterity to get 19AC with medium armour and shield, so you can start with 8/14/15/10/10/17 and take Resilient (Con) at some point. Take a half feat (fey/shadow touched) to get 18 Cha, then an ASI for 20, and then you still have two ASIs to take as feats (PAM and GWM if you're maximizing melee power, other things if optimizing melee isn't that much of a concern). Of course the Hexblade is still very invocation heavy, needing improved pact weapon, thirsting blade, lifedrinker, and possibly eldritch smite. Eldritch mind helps with maintaining concentration (I wish Warlocks had better concentration spells to take, spirit shroud is probably the most damaging option for a melee Warlock) so that's another slot. Might as well take agonizing blast as you are a Warlock after all. At level 12 that's all of your six invocations locked into your build.
I think people put way to much emphasis on constitution, for Hexblades, and really for every class except Barbarians (who really do need it). If you insist on having a 16 constitution then yes it drives your warlock down a road with few choices. If you are willing to play through level 20 with a 12 you have a LOT more options in how you build your character.
The difference in hit points is usually not as relevant as people make it out to be, especially when you can use things like false life or armor of agathys to give temp hps.
It's not the hit points that I worry about, it's maintaining concentration on spells.
Admittedly it's more important for Cleric, because concentration spells are their bread and butter, but with their limited spell slots Warlocks want to be maintaining their concentration spells as long as possible.
I personally think that they should have made the ability to use Charisma on attack and damage rolls, instead or Strength or Dexterity, an Invocation available to all Warlocks. :)
It should have been a standard part of Pact of the Blade, and proficiency with medium armour and shields should have been a standard part of Warlocks.
But the Hexblade features are basically what was necessary to make the Pact of the Blade Warlock comparable to the standard Warlock. A melee character needs good AC (which required devoting ASIs to dex if you don't have medium/heavy armour) and strength for wielding most of the big weapons, and decent constitution for HP (when you're only a D8 class), and of course they still need Cha for casting because they are a Warlock.
So the Hexblade changes mean you don't need strength at all, and you only need 14 dexterity to get 19AC with medium armour and shield, so you can start with 8/14/15/10/10/17 and take Resilient (Con) at some point. Take a half feat (fey/shadow touched) to get 18 Cha, then an ASI for 20, and then you still have two ASIs to take as feats (PAM and GWM if you're maximizing melee power, other things if optimizing melee isn't that much of a concern). Of course the Hexblade is still very invocation heavy, needing improved pact weapon, thirsting blade, lifedrinker, and possibly eldritch smite. Eldritch mind helps with maintaining concentration (I wish Warlocks had better concentration spells to take, spirit shroud is probably the most damaging option for a melee Warlock) so that's another slot. Might as well take agonizing blast as you are a Warlock after all. At level 12 that's all of your six invocations locked into your build.
What you are describing is one of the issues with warlocks. Yeah you can go off build but too often until level 15+ everything you have is almost a forced choice for a build. The pacts a supposedly defining feature of your class only really do anything once you invest invocations, chain less so but tome woo 3 cantrips, blade woo a weapon you will suck at using, heck even if it was default chr based it would only be useful for levels 3 and 4. Effectively needing a invocation just to make your pact feature actually feel like it does what it is supposed to do is kind of lame. At the very least, the rituals should be built into tome, thirsting blade into blade(along with chr) and voice into chain. And while yes you can ignore your pact, as is some of the invocations just feel like a invocation tax.
You're right. There are a variety of really cool invocations, but if you're building into your pact you won't be able to benefit from them for a very long time, if at all.
My favourite patron is the Celestial, an inheritely good being. Especially with an evil or chaotic warlock that is forced to align themselves with the forces of good, or be smited by their patron. It gives you all the fun of playing an evil character, without the expectation you'll betray the party.
My last celestial warlock was a cruel and ruthless bandit queen, who was defeated by Adventurers. In an act of desperation she thought she was summoning a devil to make a deal, but instead an Angel answered the call who agreed to save her as long as she walked the path of good from then on. It was a blast.
Current idea is a Feylock. Human who was somehow lost in the Feywild as a child, and was raised by some kooky but kindly Harengon who took him in. Imagine folk like the March Hare from Alice in Wonderland. One day a powerful Fey was walking (or riding) by with her servants and courtiers. One of his adoptive family stupidly made a prank or sleight against that fey and she was about to outright kill that harengon before my human intervened, begging her not to hurt his family. Intrigued by a human in her realm, and impressed by him being willing to stand in her way, she was willing to hear him out. After some time, she said she would not let any of his family come to any harm, and in return, he'd use some powers she'd give him to mess with some other fey whom bother her when she asks him.
No idea what fey in particular he'd be in a pact with though.
I love the idea of a more clever conniving patron, one more subtle and regal but can still kick your tuchus. That's a big reason why I love Archfey.
As far as lore goes, my favorite by far is Celestial. I like the idea of playing a hero of light instead of a dark and brooding edgelord antihero or an outright villain. It's also a good way of using the Celestial paragons from the Book of Exalted Deeds. It fits better with most groups and less of a problem within most civilized societies.
Mechanically though, I think, Hexblade is the most powerful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
It’s a tough choice, as I have had a blast with the Celestial, Fathomless, Hexblade, and Undead Warlocks that I have played and I find Archfey, Fiend, Great Old One andUndying to have interesting mechanics and flavor. Only the Genie falls short for me and that’s more so because I’m not a big fan of Genies in general, and I would have preferred if the subclass was connected to Elementals in general. It’s mechanics are pretty cool at least.
If I had to choose one though I’d probably go with the undead warlock.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
My patron is Graz'zt, I used to be a fighter hunting down cults where ever I found them as my son had been abducted by a cult. Got myself in over my head when I attacked a cult gathering turned out to be a lot bigger than I expected, but Graz'zt was there destroying them as it was a cult to Orcus. I threw a sword at a cultist that was about to stab Graz'zt in the back not realising that he was a demon and it wouldn't really affect him. I managed to impress him and he granted me a portion of his power as long as I carried on destroying cults (except for his) wherever I found them. I woke up the next morning with none of my previous fighting abilities, but new found powers.
I have also (for a laugh) created a new patron on DMSGuild, "The Demon Princess" - She is fascinated by mortal relationships so only grants power to a couple in a relationship. Gives bonuses when the two characters are together. And she can scry on them whenever she wishes and no magic can protect from her voyeuristic tendencies lol
From Within Chaos Comes Order!
Hello.A Bronze Dragon! My DM agreed to allow my patron to be the Fiend, except the Fiend was a Bronze Dragon instead of a demon or devil. The character is a dragon born warlock and the fiend spell list matches well with dragon based lore...fireball, flame-strike etc. It is also a "loop hole" so to speak. The fiend of course is demonic/deviish and essentially evil leaning, but the bronze dragon in this case good and is aligned against Tiamat. So my character can be chaotic good without the bane of evil lurking over him and demanding he complete evil tasks. The party is made up of primarily good folk including a goody-two shoes cleric who seeks out and destroys evil. #partyharmony!
I came up with a disembodied/Archfey patron that acts like a ghost that the warlock interacts with all five senses.
My male fighter-champion saves/releases this entity from confinement from an evil caster. The entity/she decides she likes him and decides to "haunt" him. They can touch each other, he can see her and smell her perfume, but no one else is aware of her exists unless she interacts with them.
I wanted a "pact of the chain" type patron the way Hexblades are meant to be "pact of the blade" patrons. In that there is expected to be a physical representation of the pact. The entity more or less acting as a familiar option.
Kinda wish eldritch smite was a spell not an evocation.
My warlock (now a Bardlock after this week's session) went full Faustian with Dispater as his patron. Even chose Pact of the Chain for the awesome imp sidekick. Our campaign has a fair share of world-building and political intrigue, so as the warlock entrenches into the power seats of the empire, Dispater's influence reaches even more potential. Really hasn't been any demands yet. Kind of tough to force a person to do bad things when they are more than willing to do them on their own.
Genie. I loved the Sha'ir from Al Qadim and this reminds me of them.
I actually got to play the celestial warlock I mentioned early in the thread.
He was a deadbeat, absent, alcoholic dad. Until his kid got hit by a coach and died. He was willing to make any deal to bring her back and, lucky for him, a celestial answered first. The price was to sober up and to go out and help people with his powers.
Whenever he was under a significant amount of stress, I'd roll will saves to see if he would drink and lose his powers in the process.
Vote here for an interim solution for homebrew classes:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360036951934-Homebrew-class-interim-solution
Call me basic, but I just love the Fiend patron for Warlocks. I do this all the time, and enjoy running a lawful evil character who constantly keeps the party on their toes.
9 times out of 10, my Warlock is part of The Cult of Asmodeus or something similar, and his main job is to convince as many souls as possible to go sell their souls to him, and with the friends cantrip, this is ridiculously easy. The best part is watching my party of good aligned martial classes try to figure out how to get me to stop without killing memes or driving me off, because I’m the only caster they have. It’s like watching a toddler, you take your eyes off ‘em for one second and they’re doing something crazy.
”Ok well- WAIT, WHERES THE WARLOCK!?” Cue sounds of infernal chanting from the nearest tavern while screams pierce the now shattered calm of the city. The ensuing encounter goes something like, “WHAT DID YOU DO?” “My job.” -closes my book of soul contracts- “I just got another dozen or so. We should probably go before the guards come to investigate.”
It should have been a standard part of Pact of the Blade, and proficiency with medium armour and shields should have been a standard part of Warlocks.
But the Hexblade features are basically what was necessary to make the Pact of the Blade Warlock comparable to the standard Warlock. A melee character needs good AC (which required devoting ASIs to dex if you don't have medium/heavy armour) and strength for wielding most of the big weapons, and decent constitution for HP (when you're only a D8 class), and of course they still need Cha for casting because they are a Warlock.
So the Hexblade changes mean you don't need strength at all, and you only need 14 dexterity to get 19AC with medium armour and shield, so you can start with 8/14/15/10/10/17 and take Resilient (Con) at some point. Take a half feat (fey/shadow touched) to get 18 Cha, then an ASI for 20, and then you still have two ASIs to take as feats (PAM and GWM if you're maximizing melee power, other things if optimizing melee isn't that much of a concern). Of course the Hexblade is still very invocation heavy, needing improved pact weapon, thirsting blade, lifedrinker, and possibly eldritch smite. Eldritch mind helps with maintaining concentration (I wish Warlocks had better concentration spells to take, spirit shroud is probably the most damaging option for a melee Warlock) so that's another slot. Might as well take agonizing blast as you are a Warlock after all. At level 12 that's all of your six invocations locked into your build.
What you are describing is one of the issues with warlocks. Yeah you can go off build but too often until level 15+ everything you have is almost a forced choice for a build. The pacts a supposedly defining feature of your class only really do anything once you invest invocations, chain less so but tome woo 3 cantrips, blade woo a weapon you will suck at using, heck even if it was default chr based it would only be useful for levels 3 and 4. Effectively needing a invocation just to make your pact feature actually feel like it does what it is supposed to do is kind of lame. At the very least, the rituals should be built into tome, thirsting blade into blade(along with chr) and voice into chain. And while yes you can ignore your pact, as is some of the invocations just feel like a invocation tax.
Female Drow Undead Warlock with Kiransalee (the insane banshee) as patron ..... is she a God? Is she a myth? Is she jut a crazy undead? .... usually with a wizard dip.
Because Kiransalee is bat-shit crazy it makes the thematics pretty easy - "I don't know why she wants you doing that, she is chaotic and insane you know"
I think Undead warlock is the most powerful mechanically, beating Hexblade by quite a bit IME.
I think people put way to much emphasis on constitution, for Hexblades, and really for every class except Barbarians (who really do need it). If you insist on having a 16 constitution then yes it drives your warlock down a road with few choices. If you are willing to play through level 20 with a 12 you have a LOT more options in how you build your character.
The difference in hit points is usually not as relevant as people make it out to be, especially when you can use things like false life or armor of agathys to give temp hps.
It's not the hit points that I worry about, it's maintaining concentration on spells.
Admittedly it's more important for Cleric, because concentration spells are their bread and butter, but with their limited spell slots Warlocks want to be maintaining their concentration spells as long as possible.
You're right. There are a variety of really cool invocations, but if you're building into your pact you won't be able to benefit from them for a very long time, if at all.
My favourite patron is the Celestial, an inheritely good being. Especially with an evil or chaotic warlock that is forced to align themselves with the forces of good, or be smited by their patron. It gives you all the fun of playing an evil character, without the expectation you'll betray the party.
My last celestial warlock was a cruel and ruthless bandit queen, who was defeated by Adventurers. In an act of desperation she thought she was summoning a devil to make a deal, but instead an Angel answered the call who agreed to save her as long as she walked the path of good from then on. It was a blast.
I am also here.
Am snek.
Current idea is a Feylock. Human who was somehow lost in the Feywild as a child, and was raised by some kooky but kindly Harengon who took him in. Imagine folk like the March Hare from Alice in Wonderland. One day a powerful Fey was walking (or riding) by with her servants and courtiers. One of his adoptive family stupidly made a prank or sleight against that fey and she was about to outright kill that harengon before my human intervened, begging her not to hurt his family. Intrigued by a human in her realm, and impressed by him being willing to stand in her way, she was willing to hear him out. After some time, she said she would not let any of his family come to any harm, and in return, he'd use some powers she'd give him to mess with some other fey whom bother her when she asks him.
No idea what fey in particular he'd be in a pact with though.
I love the idea of a more clever conniving patron, one more subtle and regal but can still kick your tuchus. That's a big reason why I love Archfey.
As far as lore goes, my favorite by far is Celestial. I like the idea of playing a hero of light instead of a dark and brooding edgelord antihero or an outright villain. It's also a good way of using the Celestial paragons from the Book of Exalted Deeds. It fits better with most groups and less of a problem within most civilized societies.
Mechanically though, I think, Hexblade is the most powerful.
+ Instaboot to murderhobos + I don't watch Critical Role, and no, I really shouldn't either +
It’s a tough choice, as I have had a blast with the Celestial, Fathomless, Hexblade, and Undead Warlocks that I have played and I find Archfey, Fiend, Great Old One andUndying to have interesting mechanics and flavor. Only the Genie falls short for me and that’s more so because I’m not a big fan of Genies in general, and I would have preferred if the subclass was connected to Elementals in general. It’s mechanics are pretty cool at least.
If I had to choose one though I’d probably go with the undead warlock.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills