Odd combo I know, but what are the rules in terms of requirements, for taking a sling as the pact weapon?
It's one handed, and it's not mentioned on the Improved Pact Weapon list. Does that mean a regular Pact Weapon selection can be Sling (at third level Warlock) without having to take Improved Pact Weapon? It's also a ranged weapon so there is a valid argument on IPW requirement.
I've tried searching for a clear answer but I guess my Google Skills check failed. ;)
You can use your action to create a pact weapon in your empty hand. You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see the Weapons section for weapon options). You are proficient with it while you wield it. This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.
I would definitely say no, RAW. It clearly says melee weapon and then Improved pact weapon clearly tells you what you can or can't summon.
That being said, I highly doubt that any DM wouldn't allow a measly sling to be summoned. The only question is whether you'd need IPW since it's definitely ranged.. but for a 1d4 weapon I wouldn't really bust chops (especially if you have a very specific reason why you're using that specific weapon - I'm DMing for a kraken warlock. I gave him trident proficiency at level 1 even though he could've pacted it and gained it automatically. I reasoned that it's pretty much EXACTLY like a spear mechanically so no harm done).
That being said, read pact of blade and improved pact weapon. Sure you can only summon a melee weapon... and with IPW you can now summon a bow/etc... but read the second half of pact of blade --
"You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold the weapon. You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest."
The ONLY restriction that this feature has is --
"You can't affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way."
So just have your DM give you a Sling, +1 and problem solved on all accounts.
(I plan on having my player eventually find and be rewarded with Wave, a sentient, legendary trident. I'm still going to allow him to bond with it)
Poor old Slingers are shafted by the outworldly Patrons... they just can't catch a break.
Guess that goes for Blowguns, Nets and Darts too. ;)
I was asking about sling because I was thinking of a Pact of the "Sling" Warlock Assassin build. Magic Stone + Pact Sling + Elderitch Smite + Sharpshooter. Just couldn't quite find the rules on Pact weapon + Sling. Didn't make a lot of sense to me that it was left out. I guess the Sling +1 loophole would work...
Wonder if I could get a Mage to cast a level 2 "Magic Weapon" spell on a regular Sling (duration 1 hour), "thus making it a +1 magic weapon", then start a Pact Bond process right away (duration 1 hour) to cement the sling as my pact weapon that way. Once a Pact Weapon, always a Pact Weapon right? LOL Nothing in RAW about if a Pact weapon ceases to qualify as a pact weapon, just says that you can summon your Pact Weapon if/when it goes away.
Though you wouldn't need sling for magic stone in the first place.... The description says that it can be used in a sling or thrown (making no difference in it's usage)
As a matter of fact it's inferior in EVERY way (except maybe one but not even). A sling needs ammunition so depending on if your table is counting, you'd need to keep track (but who does?). The only flaw is that magic stones is only 3 per cast, although with it being a bonus action cast it should hardly slow you down). Other than that, a sling does 1d4+Mod damage. Magic Stones does 1d6+Mod. A sling has a range of 30 and long range of 120. Stones have a range of 60... so maybe if you don't mind shooting long range then you're missing out.
Well it's not like a Sling build is aiming to be the power build ... ever...
But with the Sling and Magic Stone, you get sneak. With just Magic Stone thrown, you do not.
The Sling with Sharpshooter let's you get the 120 range without disadvantage, not to mention the coverage aspect.
Magic Stone with the sling also gives you your Charisma to hit and Damage. I suspect that would be on top of the Pact Blade bonuses. Add Eldritch Smite to that which doubles on a crit...
From an RP standpoint, it's nice. Coming up on a dead city guard and the only object around is a pebble... ;)
Magic Stone with the sling also gives you your Charisma to hit and Damage. I suspect that would be on top of the Pact Blade bonuses. Add Eldritch Smite to that which doubles on a crit...
Which is why I was originally saying that it was redundant. If you have CHA then don't bother with sling, if you have high Dex then don't bother with stones..... What other bonuses does blade have?
Yea sling would be needed for smites so I'm starting to hear you
I was asking about sling because I was thinking of a Pact of the "Sling" Warlock Assassin build. Magic Stone + Pact Sling + Elderitch Smite + Sharpshooter. Just couldn't quite find the rules on Pact weapon + Sling.
Some of those might not/probably won't work.
Since magic stone is a ranged spell attack, you are not attacking with your weapon which means eldritch smite might not apply (GM call).
The sharpshooter feat certainly doesn't apply to this, as it only works with ranged weapon attacks.
I was asking about sling because I was thinking of a Pact of the "Sling" Warlock Assassin build. Magic Stone + Pact Sling + Elderitch Smite + Sharpshooter. Just couldn't quite find the rules on Pact weapon + Sling.
Some of those might not/probably won't work.
Since magic stone is a ranged spell attack, you are not attacking with your weapon which means eldritch smite might not apply (GM call).
The sharpshooter feat certainly doesn't apply to this, as it only works with ranged weapon attacks.
Actually, the Eldritch Smite should work for the same reason that Sneak does; it calls for a generic attack with a weapon rather than a weapon attack.
"Once per turn when you hit a creature with your pact weapon"
Sneak Attack: "Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse ora ranged weapon."
The Sage Advice on this has been that if you use a sling to hurl the stone it works, but you are not allowed, RAW to throw the magic stone for a sneak attack.
I was asking about sling because I was thinking of a Pact of the "Sling" Warlock Assassin build. Magic Stone + Pact Sling + Elderitch Smite + Sharpshooter. Just couldn't quite find the rules on Pact weapon + Sling. Didn't make a lot of sense to me that it was left out. I guess the Sling +1 loophole would work...
You forgot Hex!
Let's assume you're 5th level and took Eldritch Smite, IPW, and Maddening Hex. You have to be within 30 ft if you don't want disadvantage, since that portion of Sharpshooter only works for weapon attacks. Say you got 16 Cha, a running Hex, and 12 seconds to take this shot (because you need a bonus action to create stones, another to apply hex, and a third to activate MadH as the stone hits). Unfortunately, you're taking that -5 to hit from ShSh. With +3 from Cha +3 prof and +1 from IPW, you're only at +2 to hit.
Pre-5th you drop down a slot level, and lose maddening hex, but this is still 18-42 avg 30. If it's low-level skull-splattering damage you want, this is pretty optimal. Caveat: most low level characters don't even HAVE this much health before you get to the high end of Challenge Rating 2.
For comparison, Agonizing Eldritch Spear Blast has +6 to hit at 300 ft and the two beams together would do
It's less (72% of stonesniper), but has 20% more accuracy and 1000% of the range. It involves 2 attack rolls, but that could go either way. Pre-5, however, this is WAY WORSE, since you only get 1 beam: 5-15 avg 10.
I was asking about sling because I was thinking of a Pact of the "Sling" Warlock Assassin build. Magic Stone + Pact Sling + Elderitch Smite + Sharpshooter. Just couldn't quite find the rules on Pact weapon + Sling. Didn't make a lot of sense to me that it was left out. I guess the Sling +1 loophole would work...
You forgot Hex!
Let's assume you're 5th level and took Eldritch Smite, IPW, and Maddening Hex. You have to be within 30 ft if you don't want disadvantage, since that portion of Sharpshooter only works for weapon attacks. Say you got 16 Cha, a running Hex, and 12 seconds to take this shot (because you need a bonus action to create stones, another to apply hex, and a third to activate MadH as the stone hits). Unfortunately, you're taking that -5 to hit from ShSh. With +3 from Cha +3 prof and +1 from IPW, you're only at +2 to hit.
Pre-5th you drop down a slot level, and lose maddening hex, but this is still 18-42 avg 30. If it's low-level skull-splattering damage you want, this is pretty optimal. Caveat: most low level characters don't even HAVE this much health before you get to the high end of Challenge Rating 2.
For comparison, Agonizing Eldritch Spear Blast has +6 to hit at 300 ft and the two beams together would do
It's less (72% of stonesniper), but has 20% more accuracy and 1000% of the range. It involves 2 attack rolls, but that could go either way. Pre-5, however, this is WAY WORSE, since you only get 1 beam: 5-15 avg 10.
but you're forgetting that you only get 2 Eldritch smites a short rest. that's an av of 12 damage (making it only slightly worse then EB) that you can only power through 2x whereas EB is consistent every time .
Did you add SA, like the OP originally asked? if so that also adds a few d6s on 1 hit per turn. Also, how exactly does magic stones work? Can you only hold 3x stones and can only 'reload' once they're all used?
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Odd combo I know, but what are the rules in terms of requirements, for taking a sling as the pact weapon?
It's one handed, and it's not mentioned on the Improved Pact Weapon list. Does that mean a regular Pact Weapon selection can be Sling (at third level Warlock) without having to take Improved Pact Weapon? It's also a ranged weapon so there is a valid argument on IPW requirement.
I've tried searching for a clear answer but I guess my Google Skills check failed. ;)
Thanks in advance.
It seems you just can't.
I would definitely say no, RAW. It clearly says melee weapon and then Improved pact weapon clearly tells you what you can or can't summon.
That being said, I highly doubt that any DM wouldn't allow a measly sling to be summoned. The only question is whether you'd need IPW since it's definitely ranged.. but for a 1d4 weapon I wouldn't really bust chops (especially if you have a very specific reason why you're using that specific weapon - I'm DMing for a kraken warlock. I gave him trident proficiency at level 1 even though he could've pacted it and gained it automatically. I reasoned that it's pretty much EXACTLY like a spear mechanically so no harm done).
That being said, read pact of blade and improved pact weapon. Sure you can only summon a melee weapon... and with IPW you can now summon a bow/etc... but read the second half of pact of blade --
"You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold the weapon. You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest."
The ONLY restriction that this feature has is --
"You can't affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way."
So just have your DM give you a Sling, +1 and problem solved on all accounts.
(I plan on having my player eventually find and be rewarded with Wave, a sentient, legendary trident. I'm still going to allow him to bond with it)
Poor old Slingers are shafted by the outworldly Patrons... they just can't catch a break.
Guess that goes for Blowguns, Nets and Darts too. ;)
I was asking about sling because I was thinking of a Pact of the "Sling" Warlock Assassin build. Magic Stone + Pact Sling + Elderitch Smite + Sharpshooter. Just couldn't quite find the rules on Pact weapon + Sling. Didn't make a lot of sense to me that it was left out. I guess the Sling +1 loophole would work...
Wonder if I could get a Mage to cast a level 2 "Magic Weapon" spell on a regular Sling (duration 1 hour), "thus making it a +1 magic weapon", then start a Pact Bond process right away (duration 1 hour) to cement the sling as my pact weapon that way. Once a Pact Weapon, always a Pact Weapon right? LOL Nothing in RAW about if a Pact weapon ceases to qualify as a pact weapon, just says that you can summon your Pact Weapon if/when it goes away.
Though you wouldn't need sling for magic stone in the first place.... The description says that it can be used in a sling or thrown (making no difference in it's usage)
As a matter of fact it's inferior in EVERY way (except maybe one but not even). A sling needs ammunition so depending on if your table is counting, you'd need to keep track (but who does?). The only flaw is that magic stones is only 3 per cast, although with it being a bonus action cast it should hardly slow you down). Other than that, a sling does 1d4+Mod damage. Magic Stones does 1d6+Mod. A sling has a range of 30 and long range of 120. Stones have a range of 60... so maybe if you don't mind shooting long range then you're missing out.
Well it's not like a Sling build is aiming to be the power build ... ever...
But with the Sling and Magic Stone, you get sneak. With just Magic Stone thrown, you do not.
The Sling with Sharpshooter let's you get the 120 range without disadvantage, not to mention the coverage aspect.
Magic Stone with the sling also gives you your Charisma to hit and Damage. I suspect that would be on top of the Pact Blade bonuses. Add Eldritch Smite to that which doubles on a crit...
From an RP standpoint, it's nice. Coming up on a dead city guard and the only object around is a pebble... ;)
With MC rogue? Didn't realize that was considered.
Which is why I was originally saying that it was redundant. If you have CHA then don't bother with sling, if you have high Dex then don't bother with stones..... What other bonuses does blade have?
Yea sling would be needed for smites so I'm starting to hear you
Some of those might not/probably won't work.
Since magic stone is a ranged spell attack, you are not attacking with your weapon which means eldritch smite might not apply (GM call).
The sharpshooter feat certainly doesn't apply to this, as it only works with ranged weapon attacks.
Actually, the Eldritch Smite should work for the same reason that Sneak does; it calls for a generic attack with a weapon rather than a weapon attack.
"Once per turn when you hit a creature with your pact weapon"
Sneak Attack: "Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."
The Sage Advice on this has been that if you use a sling to hurl the stone it works, but you are not allowed, RAW to throw the magic stone for a sneak attack.
You forgot Hex!
Let's assume you're 5th level and took Eldritch Smite, IPW, and Maddening Hex. You have to be within 30 ft if you don't want disadvantage, since that portion of Sharpshooter only works for weapon attacks. Say you got 16 Cha, a running Hex, and 12 seconds to take this shot (because you need a bonus action to create stones, another to apply hex, and a third to activate MadH as the stone hits). Unfortunately, you're taking that -5 to hit from ShSh. With +3 from Cha +3 prof and +1 from IPW, you're only at +2 to hit.
MS: 4+1d6 (Blud)
Hex: +1d6 (Nec)
ES: +3d8 (Force)
ShSh: +10 (blud)
MadH: +3 (psy)
22-53 damage, avg 37.5.
Pre-5th you drop down a slot level, and lose maddening hex, but this is still 18-42 avg 30. If it's low-level skull-splattering damage you want, this is pretty optimal. Caveat: most low level characters don't even HAVE this much health before you get to the high end of Challenge Rating 2.
For comparison, Agonizing Eldritch Spear Blast has +6 to hit at 300 ft and the two beams together would do
EB: 3+1d10
Hex: +1d6
EB: 3+1d10
Hex: +1d6
MadH: +3
13-41 damage, avg 27.
It's less (72% of stonesniper), but has 20% more accuracy and 1000% of the range. It involves 2 attack rolls, but that could go either way.
Pre-5, however, this is WAY WORSE, since you only get 1 beam: 5-15 avg 10.
but you're forgetting that you only get 2 Eldritch smites a short rest. that's an av of 12 damage (making it only slightly worse then EB) that you can only power through 2x whereas EB is consistent every time .
Did you add SA, like the OP originally asked? if so that also adds a few d6s on 1 hit per turn. Also, how exactly does magic stones work? Can you only hold 3x stones and can only 'reload' once they're all used?