So in the campaign I'm in I currently play as a Warlock. I'm level 3 right now. But background wise I'm a criminal. I have high intimidate and have been doing quite a bit of thieving so I figured I'd try to multi class if it seems reasonable enough. How many levels should I multi class as a Rogue for. Or any other possible suggestions that anyone might have. I can post my stats and stuff as well if anyone needs it.
You get a lot from just a 1 level dip into Rough with getting Expertise but unless you are a Pact of the Blade Warlock sneak attack isn't going to be of use to you since it needs to be a weapon attack. I would stick with just one level of Rough, especially if you plan to continue with Warlock levels.
It sounds like Rogue is your go-to multiclass given your background and how you are RPing. The level of Rogue will all depend on the trade offs you are willing to make.
More Rogue levels gives you more Sneak Attack damage, better stealth, slight of hand and better damage avoidance. Those sneak attack die will quickly overwhelm Eldritch Blast. I find EB underwhelming at mid-to-high levels. Its' advantage is you can clip multiple targets if wanted, has long range, and no resources are needed. But it won't get sneak damage which can be huge for a mid/high level rogue, and sneak attack isn't difficult to set up with a smart party.
More Warlock levels gets you more invocations and Mystic Arcanum options. I'll leave out spell slots, since the difference between 2 and 4 spell slots is really no big deal. A warlock has to be smart how they use them regardless of the number. But those invocations can be really powerful social support abilities to your party.
It really depends on what you're looking for from rogue. My warlocks tend to be a bit roguish in behavior; I don't feel like rogue really brings it much to the table. I feel like rogue is a thing you need to either be all in for, or all out.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If you want to use a melee weapon as a Warlock to get Sneak Attack, I would recommend choosing Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade at your fourth level of Warlock. You can also choose Shadow Blade as a Warlock spell and use this weapon to get Sneak Attack. And you can combo these together and use Shadow Blade with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade. You cannot use a Shadow Blade as a weapon with your Pact of the Blade feature or your Hex Warrior feature, unfortunately. You can't combo Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade with the Thirsting Blade invocation either, unfortunately.
Of course, Hex Blade and Pact of the Blade are the most ideal Warlock choices for a Warlock-Rogue multiclass, but you can do a powerful weapon using Warlock without that. My Warlock is a Celestial Pact of the Chain Warlock that uses Green Flame Blade and Shadow Blade (or a short sword if he doesn't want to waste a spell slot) instead of using Eldritch Blast, and he's pretty powerful. You didn't mention that your character was Hex Blade or Pact of the Blade, so I'm guessing that your character is not one of those.
Shadow Blade scales nicely as you level up, and the fourth level spell Shadow of Moil is a fantastic spell if you want to be a melee Warlock-Rogue multiclass. It's very thematic and very powerful. This is a reason to keep choosing more levels as a Warlock for a bit.
Rogue Cunning Action at level 2 is great unless you're planning on using Hex, in which case you've already got a use for your Bonus Action. The Bonus Action Dash at will is great, and if you chose Warlock, you probably like having at will abilities. The at will Bonus Action hide doesn't combo too well with Eldritch Blast, because your DM is probably only going to give you advantage on the first attack, and not any subsequent attacks that turn. It's great if you're doing a weapon based Warlock-Rogue, though. The at will Bonus Action disengage will mostly only be useful if you're doing a melee Warlock-Rogue. If you're doing a ranged Eldritch Blasting Warlock-Rogue, it's probably not worth it to take a 2nd level in Rogue. But if you're doing a weapon based Warlock-Rogue, taking a 2nd level in Rogue is probably worth it, and taking a 3rd level for an archetype and a 2nd D6 of Sneak Attack is probably worth it, too.
Rogue Assassin is great if you think that fits your play style. Their level 3 and level 17 abilities are great, but the level 9 and 13 abilities are pretty unimpressive. Since you're not likely to get to level 9, this makes Assassin a good pick. But the big question for which Rogue archetype you should choose is which one thematically fits with what you think your character should do. And it might be best to just stick to 1 or 2 levels of Rogue.
My PC Ash went 5 levels of Hexblade Warlock / PotB, then did 3 levels of Rogue for Swashbuckler. Then returned to Warlock. I wanted the initiative bonus, better flexibility with fighting, added SA damage, and fancy footwork. This SA damage adds well onto HB curse, Hex, Thirsting Blade, Maddening Hex, and other stuff. And Smites.
She was already a criminal, more of the "hired hitman" than a thief. So, Swashbuckler fit that melee combat role, and got us out of (and, into...) some tricky situations. I wasn't impressed with the Level 20 HB feature, so I figured I could just do a 3-level dip and that would be enough.
Rogue Cunning Action at level 2 is great unless you're planning on using Hex, in which case you've already got a use for your Bonus Action. The Bonus Action Dash at will is great, and if you chose Warlock, you probably like having at will abilities. The at will Bonus Action hide doesn't combo too well with Eldritch Blast, because your DM is probably only going to give you advantage on the first attack, and not any subsequent attacks that turn.
Hex is a bonus action to cast, but you don't need to use your bonus action each turn to use it once cast. Once you get your 3rd level spel slots the Hex spell has an 8 hour duration as well, so cast it in the first round and then you are good to use GB/BB attacks and disengage with cunning action each round until you kill your target. Use your bonus action to swap targets and start using cunning action again.
Rogue Cunning Action at level 2 is great unless you're planning on using Hex, in which case you've already got a use for your Bonus Action. The Bonus Action Dash at will is great, and if you chose Warlock, you probably like having at will abilities. The at will Bonus Action hide doesn't combo too well with Eldritch Blast, because your DM is probably only going to give you advantage on the first attack, and not any subsequent attacks that turn.
Hex is a bonus action to cast, but you don't need to use your bonus action each turn to use it once cast. Once you get your 3rd level spel slots the Hex spell has an 8 hour duration as well, so cast it in the first round and then you are good to use GB/BB attacks and disengage with cunning action each round until you kill your target. Use your bonus action to swap targets and start using cunning action again.
Hopefully your party is killing your enemy every round or two. If it's taking you a long time to kill an enemy, you've either run into the BBEG for the night, or your party needs to get better at killing. It's not a good strategy to let everyone in their party have their own enemy and for each person to focus on killing a different target. It's much more effective to focus fire as a party and kill enemies one by one rather than spreading the damage out.
Hopefully your party is killing your enemy every round or two. If it's taking you a long time to kill an enemy, you've either run into the BBEG for the night, or your party needs to get better at killing. It's not a good strategy to let everyone in their party have their own enemy and for each person to focus on killing a different target. It's much more effective to focus fire as a party and kill enemies one by one rather than spreading the damage out.
Or the GM is taking it easy on you, or the enemy are low powered mobs, or you significantly outnumber them, or don't get the opportunity to surround them, or you are in a small party, there are lots of reasons why it might not be possible to kill every opponent in a single round. My warlock/rogue 4/1 at the moment can get a max of 60 damage on EB with crits - 1d10+5 (x2) doubled for the crits. while my party does 1d8+4 (fighter), 2d6+3 (ranger) 2d6+4 (bard) 15 + 15 + 12 + 30 = 72 maximum damage output per round. We take down mobs fairly quickly if we gang up but if we are separated or significantly outnumbered then things change. Also generally I tank the biggest threat with my pact weapon, Hex, Hexblade curse and GFB while trying to also get the sneak damage (Max damage 1d10+6 +1d6 +1d8 +1d6 + 3 for 39 damage) while the others whittle down the mobs. That means it usually takes several rounds to take them down with average rolls.
Hopefully your party is killing your enemy every round or two. If it's taking you a long time to kill an enemy, you've either run into the BBEG for the night, or your party needs to get better at killing. It's not a good strategy to let everyone in their party have their own enemy and for each person to focus on killing a different target. It's much more effective to focus fire as a party and kill enemies one by one rather than spreading the damage out.
Or the GM is taking it easy on you, or the enemy are low powered mobs, or you significantly outnumber them, or don't get the opportunity to surround them, or you are in a small party, there are lots of reasons why it might not be possible to kill every opponent in a single round. My warlock/rogue 4/1 at the moment can get a max of 60 damage on EB with crits - 1d10+5 (x2) doubled for the crits. while my party does 1d8+4 (fighter), 2d6+3 (ranger) 2d6+4 (bard) 15 + 15 + 12 + 30 = 72 maximum damage output per round. We take down mobs fairly quickly if we gang up but if we are separated or significantly outnumbered then things change. Also generally I tank the biggest threat with my pact weapon, Hex, Hexblade curse and GFB while trying to also get the sneak damage (Max damage 1d10+6 +1d6 +1d8 +1d6 + 3 for 39 damage) while the others whittle down the mobs. That means it usually takes several rounds to take them down with average rolls.
It sounds like your party needs to get better at killing. With extra attack for martial classes at level 5, two dice for cantrip damage at level 5 (or two beams of Eldritch Blast), the sharpshooter and great weapon master feats available at level 4, your group should be doing more damage than it does.
The Fighter and Ranger should each have two attacks per turn because of extra attack. Either one of them taking Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master would give about 20 average damage per attack, with two attacks per round. You should still be getting about 20 damage per attack with one attack per round on your Warlock. If your group works together, you should be able to kill an Ogre each round. Focusing your damage on a target instead of spreading the damage around should help you kill your enemy within 1-2 rounds. It really shouldn't be taking several rounds to kill a single target.
Yeah I forgot the ranger gets 2 shots off per round with his shortbow, plus hunters mark, but the fighter is multiclass with sorc so doesn't have a feat or second attack yet.
I made the mistake with my 3rd character of multiclassing too much. Unless your campaign is quickly progressing in levels, it can be a problem to be multiclassing. My two current characters are both multiclassed, but they took just 1 level in one class before taking the rest in a 2nd class, so it's only slowing their progression down slightly. It sounds like your party might be going a bit overboard with multiclassing. Which can be a lot of fun, especially if you get to roleplay why they're multiclassing. But it can be a drag to a player's power, especially at the levels where pure class characters get a big jump in power, while the multiclass characters don't get the same boost.
Specifically at level 5, it often really hurts to be multiclassing, because pure casters get 3rd level spells, martial classes get extra attack, and Paladins and Rangers get 2nd level spells. Rogues don't get a big jump at level 5 unfortunately, but pretty much every other class gets a big jump at level 5. At least your cantrips still get the 2nd die even if you multiclassed.
I've also seen a Goblin Battlemaster Archer with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter and a Half Orc Barbarian with Great Weapon Master, and the damage they can do, especially against low AC targets is really crazy. The +10 damage boost is pretty crazy. 3D6 is 10.5 average damage, so it's very close to adding 3D6 damage to each hit.
Hopefully your Bard didn't multiclass. Getting back all of the Bardic Inspiration on a short rest is a really nice boost, it makes it much easier to give them away to people. Those Bardic Inspiration dice can really help mitigate having bad dice rolls. And on top of that, the Bard gets 3rd level spells.
My Warlock is a Fighter 1 Warlock 6 right now, and he's doing 24 average damage with Shadow Blade + Green Flame blade, along with 6.5 to a second target. And he's probably doing the lowest amount of damage in the party (it also might be the support Bard, but he took Spiritual Weapon with Magical Secrets, so he's probably ahead of me), which is fine because he's also the primary healer (Celestial Warlock) and a tank (19 AC with Second Wind and Healing Light both doing max heals because of Gift of the Ever Living Ones). The Barbarian with great weapon master does about twice as much damage as I do because her attacks are dealing 23.5 average damage and she gets two of them (and she gets a 3rd one if she gets a crit or if she drops a target to 0 HP).
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So in the campaign I'm in I currently play as a Warlock. I'm level 3 right now. But background wise I'm a criminal. I have high intimidate and have been doing quite a bit of thieving so I figured I'd try to multi class if it seems reasonable enough. How many levels should I multi class as a Rogue for. Or any other possible suggestions that anyone might have. I can post my stats and stuff as well if anyone needs it.
You get a lot from just a 1 level dip into Rough with getting Expertise but unless you are a Pact of the Blade Warlock sneak attack isn't going to be of use to you since it needs to be a weapon attack. I would stick with just one level of Rough, especially if you plan to continue with Warlock levels.
It sounds like Rogue is your go-to multiclass given your background and how you are RPing. The level of Rogue will all depend on the trade offs you are willing to make.
More Rogue levels gives you more Sneak Attack damage, better stealth, slight of hand and better damage avoidance. Those sneak attack die will quickly overwhelm Eldritch Blast. I find EB underwhelming at mid-to-high levels. Its' advantage is you can clip multiple targets if wanted, has long range, and no resources are needed. But it won't get sneak damage which can be huge for a mid/high level rogue, and sneak attack isn't difficult to set up with a smart party.
More Warlock levels gets you more invocations and Mystic Arcanum options. I'll leave out spell slots, since the difference between 2 and 4 spell slots is really no big deal. A warlock has to be smart how they use them regardless of the number. But those invocations can be really powerful social support abilities to your party.
It really depends on what you're looking for from rogue. My warlocks tend to be a bit roguish in behavior; I don't feel like rogue really brings it much to the table. I feel like rogue is a thing you need to either be all in for, or all out.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Swashbuckler is a great MC for a melee-focused Hexblade.
+CHA to initiative, more ways to get Sneak Attack, and retreat without Opportunity Attacks from anyone you attacked (you don't have to hit).
And the Swashbuckler "Panache" ability is a great way to piss off a boss who is focused on one of your other party members.
If you want to use a melee weapon as a Warlock to get Sneak Attack, I would recommend choosing Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade at your fourth level of Warlock. You can also choose Shadow Blade as a Warlock spell and use this weapon to get Sneak Attack. And you can combo these together and use Shadow Blade with Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade. You cannot use a Shadow Blade as a weapon with your Pact of the Blade feature or your Hex Warrior feature, unfortunately. You can't combo Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade with the Thirsting Blade invocation either, unfortunately.
Of course, Hex Blade and Pact of the Blade are the most ideal Warlock choices for a Warlock-Rogue multiclass, but you can do a powerful weapon using Warlock without that. My Warlock is a Celestial Pact of the Chain Warlock that uses Green Flame Blade and Shadow Blade (or a short sword if he doesn't want to waste a spell slot) instead of using Eldritch Blast, and he's pretty powerful. You didn't mention that your character was Hex Blade or Pact of the Blade, so I'm guessing that your character is not one of those.
Shadow Blade scales nicely as you level up, and the fourth level spell Shadow of Moil is a fantastic spell if you want to be a melee Warlock-Rogue multiclass. It's very thematic and very powerful. This is a reason to keep choosing more levels as a Warlock for a bit.
Rogue Cunning Action at level 2 is great unless you're planning on using Hex, in which case you've already got a use for your Bonus Action. The Bonus Action Dash at will is great, and if you chose Warlock, you probably like having at will abilities. The at will Bonus Action hide doesn't combo too well with Eldritch Blast, because your DM is probably only going to give you advantage on the first attack, and not any subsequent attacks that turn. It's great if you're doing a weapon based Warlock-Rogue, though. The at will Bonus Action disengage will mostly only be useful if you're doing a melee Warlock-Rogue. If you're doing a ranged Eldritch Blasting Warlock-Rogue, it's probably not worth it to take a 2nd level in Rogue. But if you're doing a weapon based Warlock-Rogue, taking a 2nd level in Rogue is probably worth it, and taking a 3rd level for an archetype and a 2nd D6 of Sneak Attack is probably worth it, too.
Rogue Assassin is great if you think that fits your play style. Their level 3 and level 17 abilities are great, but the level 9 and 13 abilities are pretty unimpressive. Since you're not likely to get to level 9, this makes Assassin a good pick. But the big question for which Rogue archetype you should choose is which one thematically fits with what you think your character should do. And it might be best to just stick to 1 or 2 levels of Rogue.
My PC Ash went 5 levels of Hexblade Warlock / PotB, then did 3 levels of Rogue for Swashbuckler. Then returned to Warlock. I wanted the initiative bonus, better flexibility with fighting, added SA damage, and fancy footwork. This SA damage adds well onto HB curse, Hex, Thirsting Blade, Maddening Hex, and other stuff. And Smites.
She was already a criminal, more of the "hired hitman" than a thief. So, Swashbuckler fit that melee combat role, and got us out of (and, into...) some tricky situations. I wasn't impressed with the Level 20 HB feature, so I figured I could just do a 3-level dip and that would be enough.
Hex is a bonus action to cast, but you don't need to use your bonus action each turn to use it once cast. Once you get your 3rd level spel slots the Hex spell has an 8 hour duration as well, so cast it in the first round and then you are good to use GB/BB attacks and disengage with cunning action each round until you kill your target. Use your bonus action to swap targets and start using cunning action again.
Hopefully your party is killing your enemy every round or two. If it's taking you a long time to kill an enemy, you've either run into the BBEG for the night, or your party needs to get better at killing. It's not a good strategy to let everyone in their party have their own enemy and for each person to focus on killing a different target. It's much more effective to focus fire as a party and kill enemies one by one rather than spreading the damage out.
Or the GM is taking it easy on you, or the enemy are low powered mobs, or you significantly outnumber them, or don't get the opportunity to surround them, or you are in a small party, there are lots of reasons why it might not be possible to kill every opponent in a single round. My warlock/rogue 4/1 at the moment can get a max of 60 damage on EB with crits - 1d10+5 (x2) doubled for the crits. while my party does 1d8+4 (fighter), 2d6+3 (ranger) 2d6+4 (bard) 15 + 15 + 12 + 30 = 72 maximum damage output per round. We take down mobs fairly quickly if we gang up but if we are separated or significantly outnumbered then things change. Also generally I tank the biggest threat with my pact weapon, Hex, Hexblade curse and GFB while trying to also get the sneak damage (Max damage 1d10+6 +1d6 +1d8 +1d6 + 3 for 39 damage) while the others whittle down the mobs. That means it usually takes several rounds to take them down with average rolls.
It sounds like your party needs to get better at killing. With extra attack for martial classes at level 5, two dice for cantrip damage at level 5 (or two beams of Eldritch Blast), the sharpshooter and great weapon master feats available at level 4, your group should be doing more damage than it does.
The Fighter and Ranger should each have two attacks per turn because of extra attack. Either one of them taking Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master would give about 20 average damage per attack, with two attacks per round. You should still be getting about 20 damage per attack with one attack per round on your Warlock. If your group works together, you should be able to kill an Ogre each round. Focusing your damage on a target instead of spreading the damage around should help you kill your enemy within 1-2 rounds. It really shouldn't be taking several rounds to kill a single target.
Yeah I forgot the ranger gets 2 shots off per round with his shortbow, plus hunters mark, but the fighter is multiclass with sorc so doesn't have a feat or second attack yet.
I made the mistake with my 3rd character of multiclassing too much. Unless your campaign is quickly progressing in levels, it can be a problem to be multiclassing. My two current characters are both multiclassed, but they took just 1 level in one class before taking the rest in a 2nd class, so it's only slowing their progression down slightly. It sounds like your party might be going a bit overboard with multiclassing. Which can be a lot of fun, especially if you get to roleplay why they're multiclassing. But it can be a drag to a player's power, especially at the levels where pure class characters get a big jump in power, while the multiclass characters don't get the same boost.
Specifically at level 5, it often really hurts to be multiclassing, because pure casters get 3rd level spells, martial classes get extra attack, and Paladins and Rangers get 2nd level spells. Rogues don't get a big jump at level 5 unfortunately, but pretty much every other class gets a big jump at level 5. At least your cantrips still get the 2nd die even if you multiclassed.
I've also seen a Goblin Battlemaster Archer with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter and a Half Orc Barbarian with Great Weapon Master, and the damage they can do, especially against low AC targets is really crazy. The +10 damage boost is pretty crazy. 3D6 is 10.5 average damage, so it's very close to adding 3D6 damage to each hit.
Hopefully your Bard didn't multiclass. Getting back all of the Bardic Inspiration on a short rest is a really nice boost, it makes it much easier to give them away to people. Those Bardic Inspiration dice can really help mitigate having bad dice rolls. And on top of that, the Bard gets 3rd level spells.
My Warlock is a Fighter 1 Warlock 6 right now, and he's doing 24 average damage with Shadow Blade + Green Flame blade, along with 6.5 to a second target. And he's probably doing the lowest amount of damage in the party (it also might be the support Bard, but he took Spiritual Weapon with Magical Secrets, so he's probably ahead of me), which is fine because he's also the primary healer (Celestial Warlock) and a tank (19 AC with Second Wind and Healing Light both doing max heals because of Gift of the Ever Living Ones). The Barbarian with great weapon master does about twice as much damage as I do because her attacks are dealing 23.5 average damage and she gets two of them (and she gets a 3rd one if she gets a crit or if she drops a target to 0 HP).