I'm thinking of playing a level 5 bladesinger. My idea is to use the mobile feat at level 4, instead of the almost mandatory War Caster. As I am not going to have a very high cons (+1, I think), I have thought DIP a fighter level to gain the proficiency in constitution. Plus I would gain a fighting style that is probably going to duelist (or maybe defense). And, also, the second wind. But mainly it's for the proficiency in constitution. Do you think it worth delaying the progression in bladesinger to gain those advantages?
Well, and as we are in, my idea would be something like this (standard array): str: 8 dex: 14 (+2 racial bonus) 16 cons: 13 int: 15 (+1 racial bonus) 16 wis: 12 char: 10
You would need to start as a fighter to gain the proficiency in con.
I've done this exact same thing before. In my opinion, it's fun and it works, but I wouldn't recommend it. A bladesinger can pretty much do without res:con or warcaster thanks to bladesong. But, you do have to pump INT every step of the way. It helps your AC, your concentration, and of course, your spell DC. It does so much you almost can't afford to delay reaching 20.
Second, you can't just take one level of fighter. You have to go for two for action surge to really be worth it. However, now you're a full spell level behind everybody else.
Third, it sucks to lose out on the wisdom saving throw proficiency. DMs usually go after the martials without Wis proficiency. Now your wizard's a big target, and arguably it hurts more if you fail it.
Overall I think going straight wizard's the better choice. But, the fighter dip isn't bad either. I'd rate the fighter 2/bladesinger X a 7.5 out of 10.
Since you're getting a boost to your Con during bladesong, it is better to start wizard for that Wis save proficiency. Wis saves are quite important - many really problematic spells like hold person, charm person, dominate person and polymorph all use Wis saves and some are low level. So Wis is going to be more important for you. You can always pick up res:con later on if you want (although warcaster I find better).
Getting your Int to 20 ASAP is going to help a lot, and being careful with spell choices. So any delay to that, such as by multiclassing, is not going to be useful. I personally don't feel a fighter dip is all that useful. A 2 level fighter dip for action surge can be useful - but really not until much later levels for spell combos. Ideally the Haste spell should suffice for low to mid tier gameplay.
Just be aware that if you are playing to 20th level, even a single dip is going to lose an extra 7th level slot and the spell mastery feature (choose 2x 3rd level spells - they're always prepared and you can cast them for free once each per short rest - this is incredibly useful).
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Yes, you are right. I really don't like multiclass very much. And even less with full casters. But in this case it seemed to me that the cons save would be good for me. And the mobile feat, that i think is fantastic for bladesinger. And very very fun.
Anyway, at the end I started with an Artficer level. But I am not very happy with the result either. I have a great versatility of cantrips. And a lot of tools that, although not mechanically very important, except perhaps the thief ones, are narratively fun. But staying one level behind to get the precious 3rd-level spells, and within two of the bladesinger's multi-attack, is a great punishment. And also, as you have pointed out to me, without the wisdom save.
Thank you very much. I'll keep thinking about the character design. Maybe I'll end up going for full bladesinger, and I'll pray they don't throw my concentration down. We'll see.
Even if multiclassing fighter did give you a con proficiency, war caster gives you a lot more in terms of attack and defense, and doesn't throw off your spell progression.
Mobile is another fun choice, but I think it makes a little less sense for a bladesinger. You kind of want enemies to swing at your super high ac self and miss, not avoid close in combat. But it can be neat for flavor, or if you have a neat idea for how to use your abilities.
I dont think it's worth it. However, in reverse, I think it's a little more interesting. I mean, a fighter with dip in wizard. But that's really what the eldritch knight is for. And backwards, the bladesinger exists to play a fighter-flavored wizard. Actually these two classes already have their "multiclass" without the need to really multiclass.
By the way, since it's mentioned above, shouldn't a level in artificer be treated like a level in any other full caster? I mean, for spell progression. For example, shouldn't an artificer level and 3 wizard be treated as a cleric level and 3 wizard?
I dont think it's worth it. However, in reverse, I think it's a little more interesting. I mean, a fighter with dip in wizard. But that's really what the eldritch knight is for. And backwards, the bladesinger exists to play a fighter-flavored wizard. Actually these two classes already have their "multiclass" without the need to really multiclass.
By the way, since it's mentioned above, shouldn't a level in artificer be treated like a level in any other full caster? I mean, for spell progression. For example, shouldn't an artificer level and 3 wizard be treated as a cleric level and 3 wizard?
Artificers are half-casters, so no, it still messes with spell progression a little.
I dont think it's worth it. However, in reverse, I think it's a little more interesting. I mean, a fighter with dip in wizard. But that's really what the eldritch knight is for. And backwards, the bladesinger exists to play a fighter-flavored wizard. Actually these two classes already have their "multiclass" without the need to really multiclass.
By the way, since it's mentioned above, shouldn't a level in artificer be treated like a level in any other full caster? I mean, for spell progression. For example, shouldn't an artificer level and 3 wizard be treated as a cleric level and 3 wizard?
Artificers are half-casters, so no, it still messes with spell progression a little.
Artificer rounds up for spell slots, so not quite as much of an issue.
IMO no it is not worth it. There is little that is worth delaying wizard levels. The only "good" dip for a bladesinger is a 1-level sorcerer or cleric dip where you get cantrips, a few more known/prepared spells and subclass abilities WITHOUT losing any spell slots. Other dips I would consider are 1 level of undead warlock (for form of dread and Armor of Agathys which can be upcast with wizard slots and is better than false life) and 4 levels of Arcane Trickster, although on the latter you are giving up a lot of spell power. I would not go fighter though.
The best thing you actually would get from fighter is martial weapon proficiency. Bladesinger gets one melee weapon at 2nd level (probably rapier, short sword or scimitar), so you don't strictly need it, but having a hand crossbow is really nice for a bladesinger and it is also good to have whip and a few other options for your primary in case you find magic items. There are better ways than fighter to get these though. A number of races offer weapons which you can trade for these (or Drow just have the ones you need) and on a V Human or custom you can take the weapon master feat and get a +1 dex with it. If you want to do that through mutliclassing, I would look at a cleric that has martial weapons (death cleric probably) so you don't lose any spell slots.
Wisdom proficiency is better than Constitution for this build IMO, so even if you do dip fighter, I would start as a wizard and even give up the 4 hps to do it.
I would avoid any feats that don't boost either dex or intelligence. I like to start with 16 Dex, 17 intelligence and pick up Fey touched with Hex or Shadow Touched with False Life at 4th level and ASIs thereafter. You don't need mobile because in bladesong your AC is usually high enough that you are not too concerned with AOOs and on the rare occasion you need to move without disengaging, you can always misty step if you have to.
Built correctly, a pure single-class bladesinger is pretty close to being the ultimate melee defensive tank, really only competing with the Barbarian IME and needing less healing between fights. Mage Armor+Dex+Bladesong+Blur/PGE+upcast false life is a screaming high AC with good hps and a good extra attack/cantrip melee combo. At higher levels you can bring in fire shield and contingency-5th level false life. We had a bladesinger in one of my parties that went several entire levels in a row without getting hit by an attack.
If you want to play this way you really need to focus on this though and you have limited offensive spells. Shadowblade or Haste really hurt your AC compared to PEG or blur so you usually don't want to cast them. Usually you do have a few offensive spells prepared, but if you start using a lot of slots on them you don't have slots for PEG, blur, shield and upcast false life between flights.
I'm thinking of playing a level 5 bladesinger. My idea is to use the mobile feat at level 4, instead of the almost mandatory War Caster. As I am not going to have a very high cons (+1, I think), I have thought DIP a fighter level to gain the proficiency in constitution. Plus I would gain a fighting style that is probably going to duelist (or maybe defense). And, also, the second wind. But mainly it's for the proficiency in constitution. Do you think it worth delaying the progression in bladesinger to gain those advantages?
Well, and as we are in, my idea would be something like this (standard array):
str: 8
dex: 14 (+2 racial bonus) 16
cons: 13
int: 15 (+1 racial bonus) 16
wis: 12
char: 10
Thanks.
You would need to start as a fighter to gain the proficiency in con.
I've done this exact same thing before. In my opinion, it's fun and it works, but I wouldn't recommend it. A bladesinger can pretty much do without res:con or warcaster thanks to bladesong. But, you do have to pump INT every step of the way. It helps your AC, your concentration, and of course, your spell DC. It does so much you almost can't afford to delay reaching 20.
Second, you can't just take one level of fighter. You have to go for two for action surge to really be worth it. However, now you're a full spell level behind everybody else.
Third, it sucks to lose out on the wisdom saving throw proficiency. DMs usually go after the martials without Wis proficiency. Now your wizard's a big target, and arguably it hurts more if you fail it.
Overall I think going straight wizard's the better choice. But, the fighter dip isn't bad either. I'd rate the fighter 2/bladesinger X a 7.5 out of 10.
I'm in full agreement with cgarciao.
Since you're getting a boost to your Con during bladesong, it is better to start wizard for that Wis save proficiency. Wis saves are quite important - many really problematic spells like hold person, charm person, dominate person and polymorph all use Wis saves and some are low level. So Wis is going to be more important for you. You can always pick up res:con later on if you want (although warcaster I find better).
Getting your Int to 20 ASAP is going to help a lot, and being careful with spell choices. So any delay to that, such as by multiclassing, is not going to be useful. I personally don't feel a fighter dip is all that useful. A 2 level fighter dip for action surge can be useful - but really not until much later levels for spell combos. Ideally the Haste spell should suffice for low to mid tier gameplay.
Just be aware that if you are playing to 20th level, even a single dip is going to lose an extra 7th level slot and the spell mastery feature (choose 2x 3rd level spells - they're always prepared and you can cast them for free once each per short rest - this is incredibly useful).
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Yes, you are right. I really don't like multiclass very much. And even less with full casters. But in this case it seemed to me that the cons save would be good for me. And the mobile feat, that i think is fantastic for bladesinger. And very very fun.
Anyway, at the end I started with an Artficer level. But I am not very happy with the result either. I have a great versatility of cantrips. And a lot of tools that, although not mechanically very important, except perhaps the thief ones, are narratively fun. But staying one level behind to get the precious 3rd-level spells, and within two of the bladesinger's multi-attack, is a great punishment. And also, as you have pointed out to me, without the wisdom save.
Thank you very much. I'll keep thinking about the character design. Maybe I'll end up going for full bladesinger, and I'll pray they don't throw my concentration down. We'll see.
Even if multiclassing fighter did give you a con proficiency, war caster gives you a lot more in terms of attack and defense, and doesn't throw off your spell progression.
Mobile is another fun choice, but I think it makes a little less sense for a bladesinger. You kind of want enemies to swing at your super high ac self and miss, not avoid close in combat. But it can be neat for flavor, or if you have a neat idea for how to use your abilities.
I dont think it's worth it. However, in reverse, I think it's a little more interesting. I mean, a fighter with dip in wizard. But that's really what the eldritch knight is for. And backwards, the bladesinger exists to play a fighter-flavored wizard. Actually these two classes already have their "multiclass" without the need to really multiclass.
By the way, since it's mentioned above, shouldn't a level in artificer be treated like a level in any other full caster? I mean, for spell progression. For example, shouldn't an artificer level and 3 wizard be treated as a cleric level and 3 wizard?
Artificers are half-casters, so no, it still messes with spell progression a little.
Artificer rounds up for spell slots, so not quite as much of an issue.
No, go full as Wizard to not delay your progression
IMO no it is not worth it. There is little that is worth delaying wizard levels. The only "good" dip for a bladesinger is a 1-level sorcerer or cleric dip where you get cantrips, a few more known/prepared spells and subclass abilities WITHOUT losing any spell slots. Other dips I would consider are 1 level of undead warlock (for form of dread and Armor of Agathys which can be upcast with wizard slots and is better than false life) and 4 levels of Arcane Trickster, although on the latter you are giving up a lot of spell power. I would not go fighter though.
The best thing you actually would get from fighter is martial weapon proficiency. Bladesinger gets one melee weapon at 2nd level (probably rapier, short sword or scimitar), so you don't strictly need it, but having a hand crossbow is really nice for a bladesinger and it is also good to have whip and a few other options for your primary in case you find magic items. There are better ways than fighter to get these though. A number of races offer weapons which you can trade for these (or Drow just have the ones you need) and on a V Human or custom you can take the weapon master feat and get a +1 dex with it. If you want to do that through mutliclassing, I would look at a cleric that has martial weapons (death cleric probably) so you don't lose any spell slots.
Wisdom proficiency is better than Constitution for this build IMO, so even if you do dip fighter, I would start as a wizard and even give up the 4 hps to do it.
I would avoid any feats that don't boost either dex or intelligence. I like to start with 16 Dex, 17 intelligence and pick up Fey touched with Hex or Shadow Touched with False Life at 4th level and ASIs thereafter. You don't need mobile because in bladesong your AC is usually high enough that you are not too concerned with AOOs and on the rare occasion you need to move without disengaging, you can always misty step if you have to.
Built correctly, a pure single-class bladesinger is pretty close to being the ultimate melee defensive tank, really only competing with the Barbarian IME and needing less healing between fights. Mage Armor+Dex+Bladesong+Blur/PGE+upcast false life is a screaming high AC with good hps and a good extra attack/cantrip melee combo. At higher levels you can bring in fire shield and contingency-5th level false life. We had a bladesinger in one of my parties that went several entire levels in a row without getting hit by an attack.
If you want to play this way you really need to focus on this though and you have limited offensive spells. Shadowblade or Haste really hurt your AC compared to PEG or blur so you usually don't want to cast them. Usually you do have a few offensive spells prepared, but if you start using a lot of slots on them you don't have slots for PEG, blur, shield and upcast false life between flights.