This is your list of what you prefer, so no one can actually tell you it's wrong. However, we don't know what you're ranking them based on, so it's hard to discuss this or provide feedback.
Are you ranking them based on their pure power levels? On their survivability, or ability to contribute to the party? Are you taking into account their power over the recommended adventuring day versus nova-potential, or looking at their thematic flavor?
I'd personally bump graviturgy, necromancy and evocation down a ways and add in Enchantment into the mix, even if it isn't something I'd play myself.
It's really individual. How are you ranking them? What level are you assuming?
I like Evocation and order of scribes and would never take illusion because of dragons, purple worms, and others with blindsight (a wizard with a bat familiar, a ton of underdark and cavern stuff) or tremor sense. For me, scribes and enchantment are and conjuration on the top 10 list but not illusion or bladesinger and graviturgy are not.
I just don't know some of those that you refer to, but I guess I did just forget scribes, but they are very interesting. This isn't just comments on my rankings, I made this to see other people's ranking, as for how they are ranked, that is up to the individual.
Order of scribes is good for an OP multiclass combo: 2 levels in tempest cleric and then go order of scribes. Yes, you get martial weapons and heavy armor and also a channel divinity feature that does max damage on lightning or thunder damage combined with the OOS ability to change damage types (as long as have a spell with that damage type in that spell level and some spells have multiple damage types). Also, if you get an amulet of divinity, you get an extra channel of divinity and the spell pluses stack with arcane grimoire or wand of the war caster (you may want war caster feat at that point).
Ok, here is my top 10 order:
1. Chronurgy
2. Divination
3. Evocation (Protecting allies from AEO works really well with spells like Sickening Radiance, upcast fireballs, and other AOE spells, and overchannel is nice and you get a free one. Also, some of the best DPS in the game.)
4. Abjuration
5. Conjuration
6. Necromancy
7. Order of Scribes
8. War Mage
9. Enchantment (Not a huge fan of this or Illusion at high levels)
10. Blood Magic (this one is new to me but not a fan of damaging myself as a wizard)
I think Scribes are a really interesting combination for multiclass, and they are actually one of the best wizard subclasses, I just forgot about them. Bladesinger's are fun though.
I think you guys are underselling scribes a bit, and overselling its m/c value. As far as m/c goes, changing the damage type only applies to wizard spells. So a 2-level dip lets you change damage type on a couple level 1 wizard spells, but that’s all. It doesn’t help with your cleric spells.
As far as why it’s better, you can change the damage type on the fly. No need to have multiple damage type spells prepared, just have them in your book. To go with the above example, you’d need both burning hands and thunderwave prepped. But as a scribe wizard, you only need one or the other, and can freely switch damage type. Or learn chromatic orb, and be able to change any of your first level spells damage to, well, not everything, but lots of things.
Also, ritual spells as an action is sweet.
Manifest mind, unlike a familiar, can’t be damaged, only dispelled. It can’t hide, and is glowing, so not stealthy, but you pop it up and there’s little most enemies can do about it. And it can appear anywhere within 60 feet. Have it appear on the other side of the wall. If anyone is in there, it can fireball the room. Or lightning ball the room. Or thunderball the room. Or bludgeoningball the room.
Agreed people don’t make scrolls, but that’s a little because it’s such a PITA. But with this, you’re basically getting an extra spell slot a day. One free use of shield, thank you. And free upcast is nothing to sneeze at, not that it would help with shield. Though you would lose the ability to switch damage types on the fly. I wonder about the ruling for scribing them. Like scribe an acid arrow but it does fire damage.
Negating all damage against you is huge. At 14th level, it can be a lot of damage. Also at that point, you’ve probably got a few spells you barely use anymore.
btw, thanks for this thread. I’m playing my first wizard since 2e in a campaign next month. Reading everyone’s takes has been helpful.
The Scribes features are interesting. They just seem too situational or niche for me, but maybe I need to play a Scribes wizard a few more times and test out some things.
Having the ability to cast a free ritual once a day gets more powerful the higher level you reach... a free spell slot is nothing to sneeze at, and the higher the more valuable.
Manifest Mind's remote casting can be quite useful, although you do lose the element of surprise half the time... some monsters won't understand what's going on, but some will know a spellcaster is nearby. It prevents certain options but opens up many more.
And yes the 14th level ability will be literally life-saving at times. I would rather be alive and missing some spells for a while than dead.
Maybe I need to bump it up a few spots in my ranking.
I was about to play one in Strixhaven and then realized you need a lot of spells in your spellbook for this subclass and you gain money so slowly in Strix (5G per week per job and you are allowed 1 or 2), so it made more sense to select a class with a discount on scribing (I took Satyr evoker).
I think illusion mage should be ranked towards the lower part, if not bottom of the ranking, because illusions are ultimately the realm of DM fiat and I can't stand the idea that some plan is reliant on my DM's mood.
I think illusion mage should be ranked towards the lower part, if not bottom of the ranking, because illusions are ultimately the realm of DM fiat and I can't stand the idea that some plan is reliant on my DM's mood.
And, blindsight, tremor sense, and true sight will ruin your day!
Enchantment is kind of situational, and is pretty underpowered compared to subclasses like Illusion, Evocation, or Necromancy. Necromancy is a really underrated subclass, and that first 2nd level feature makes you a straight pain to kill.
Scribes is tops imo. Awakened Spellbook and Manifest Mind are insanely good features. You can see and hear through the eyes of the Awakened Spellbook with no action required! Cast a spell from the Awakened Spellbook's location, up to 300 ft away, as if you were there instead? Powerful! Awakened Spellbook can't be hurt or destroyed, except by a Dispel Magic (3rd level spell) and you can re-summon it as a bonus action for a 1st level spell slot!
The Scribes features are interesting. They just seem too situational or niche for me, but maybe I need to play a Scribes wizard a few more times and test out some things.
Having the ability to cast a free ritual once a day gets more powerful the higher level you reach... a free spell slot is nothing to sneeze at, and the higher the more valuable.
Manifest Mind's remote casting can be quite useful, although you do lose the element of surprise half the time... some monsters won't understand what's going on, but some will know a spellcaster is nearby. It prevents certain options but opens up many more.
And yes the 14th level ability will be literally life-saving at times. I would rather be alive and missing some spells for a while than dead.
Maybe I need to bump it up a few spots in my ranking.
This is essentially a non-killable familiar, requiring zero action to see through the Awakened Spellbook's eyes. And define "nearby?" The Awakened Spellbook can be up to 300 ft away! That's a pretty large distance in a dungeon.
When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can replace the damage of that spell with another damage type that appears in your spellbook (same level as spell slot you cast caveat). This is better than a sorcerer's meta magic, transmuted spell (more possible damage types) and doesn't cost any resources like a sorcery point.
Scribes, if access to extra spells is limited this could go down to about 3 or 4)
War Magic (I'm surprised so many people have it so low arcane deflection, tactical wit and durable magic are all really good features
Divination (Mainly for portent)
Chronurgy (Arcane Abayance is broken, spells like tiny hut should never be possible to cast in combat, the number of familiars the party can have is limited only by the amount of gold you have and a familiar shouldn't be able to cast a concentration spell and disappear into a pocket plane. I am assuming a sensible change is made such as limiting it to spells with a casting time of 1 action and only allow a humanoid to release the spell)
Divination Enchantment
Abjuration
Bladesinging
Graviturgy
Evocation (Blasting is OK but any PC can do damage wizards are often better doing other things like control;ling the battlefield
Scribes, if access to extra spells is limited this could go down to about 3 or 4)
War Magic (I'm surprised so many people have it so low arcane deflection, tactical wit and durable magic are all really good features
Divination (Mainly for portent)
Chronurgy (Arcane Abayance is broken, spells like tiny hut should never be possible to cast in combat, the number of familiars the party can have is limited only by the amount of gold you have and a familiar shouldn't be able to cast a concentration spell and disappear into a pocket plane. I am assuming a sensible change is made such as limiting it to spells with a casting time of 1 action and only allow a humanoid to release the spell)
Divination
Abjuration
Bladesinging
Graviturgy
Evocation (Blasting is OK but any PC can do damage wizards are often better doing other things like control;ling the battlefield
Conjuration
Necromancy
Transmutation
Illusion
Blood Magic
You have divination listed at #3 and 5.
The thing with evocation is you can do AOE like sickening radiance which does damage every round but protect your enemies or have party members carry and smash multiple otilukes freezing spheres (and be protected from the spell) plus RAW you can overchannel sickening radiance for all its rounds or disintegrate for a lot of damage. Makes evokers one of the best at DPR if not the best. Also, you may not be the only spellcaster in the party that can cast balltefield control spells....druids, sorcerers, bards, etc can take that role.
Scribes, if access to extra spells is limited this could go down to about 3 or 4)
War Magic (I'm surprised so many people have it so low arcane deflection, tactical wit and durable magic are all really good features
Divination (Mainly for portent)
Chronurgy (Arcane Abayance is broken, spells like tiny hut should never be possible to cast in combat, the number of familiars the party can have is limited only by the amount of gold you have and a familiar shouldn't be able to cast a concentration spell and disappear into a pocket plane. I am assuming a sensible change is made such as limiting it to spells with a casting time of 1 action and only allow a humanoid to release the spell)
Divination
Abjuration
Bladesinging
Graviturgy
Evocation (Blasting is OK but any PC can do damage wizards are often better doing other things like control;ling the battlefield
Conjuration
Necromancy
Transmutation
Illusion
Blood Magic
You have divination listed at #3 and 5.
The thing with evocation is you can do AOE like sickening radiance which does damage every round but protect your enemies or have party members carry and smash multiple otilukes freezing spheres (and be protected from the spell) plus RAW you can overchannel sickening radiance for all its rounds or disintegrate for a lot of damage. Makes evokers one of the best at DPR if not the best. Also, you may not be the only spellcaster in the party that can cast balltefield control spells....druids, sorcerers, bards, etc can take that role.
The thing is, the way I read sculpt spell, its "when you cast" you can create the safe zones. So on the first round they're OK, but that doesn't necessarily apply to subsequent rounds, since they are no longer casting, just concentrating. Seems like a DM ruling situation there. Maybe, if the ally doesn't move, you can argue you've hollowed out that one square as a safe spot. But If I were DM'ing, I don't know I'd let them move around in the area without taking damage. And I also don't think I'd give them a free pass for the entire spell duration.
Scribes, if access to extra spells is limited this could go down to about 3 or 4)
War Magic (I'm surprised so many people have it so low arcane deflection, tactical wit and durable magic are all really good features
Divination (Mainly for portent)
Chronurgy (Arcane Abayance is broken, spells like tiny hut should never be possible to cast in combat, the number of familiars the party can have is limited only by the amount of gold you have and a familiar shouldn't be able to cast a concentration spell and disappear into a pocket plane. I am assuming a sensible change is made such as limiting it to spells with a casting time of 1 action and only allow a humanoid to release the spell)
Divination
Abjuration
Bladesinging
Graviturgy
Evocation (Blasting is OK but any PC can do damage wizards are often better doing other things like control;ling the battlefield
Conjuration
Necromancy
Transmutation
Illusion
Blood Magic
You have divination listed at #3 and 5.
The thing with evocation is you can do AOE like sickening radiance which does damage every round but protect your enemies or have party members carry and smash multiple otilukes freezing spheres (and be protected from the spell) plus RAW you can overchannel sickening radiance for all its rounds or disintegrate for a lot of damage. Makes evokers one of the best at DPR if not the best. Also, you may not be the only spellcaster in the party that can cast balltefield control spells....druids, sorcerers, bards, etc can take that role.
The thing is, the way I read sculpt spell, its "when you cast" you can create the safe zones. So on the first round they're OK, but that doesn't necessarily apply to subsequent rounds, since they are no longer casting, just concentrating. Seems like a DM ruling situation there. Maybe, if the ally doesn't move, you can argue you've hollowed out that one square as a safe spot. But If I were DM'ing, I don't know I'd let them move around in the area without taking damage. And I also don't think I'd give them a free pass for the entire spell duration.
It just protects those you specify: nothing is written about safe zones: "The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save." I'm going with Jeremy Crawford's ruling:
"Sculpt Spells is used the turn you cast a spell and is intended to affect only saves made that turn. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save. RAW, it works on all the saves #DnD."
So, they didn't intend for it to protect you every turn...but that is how it is written RAW, and they didn't feel strongly enough to update with errata.
I finally took a look at the blood magic subclass, because it has pretty mixed opinions. Some say it's weak, some say strong, some say fun, some say boring. The first two class features, Blood Channeling and Sanguine Burst are pretty decent, but not all that notable or powerful. Bond of Mutual Suffering is pretty cool, and can be pretty powerful in certain situations, like when a dragon blasts with their 60+ damage breath, and you can have them take that damage. The problem is that you can only use it sparingly in between rests. It would honestly be better if you could use something like 3 times, right when you get it at 6th level. Glyph of Hemmorrhaging kind of sucks, because it's literally Hex, a 1st level spell, as a 10th level feature. I don't think I should explain why this sucks. The final feature, Thicker Than Water, is nice, sure, but it lacks its role as a 14th level class feature heavily. Overall, they kind of suck as a subclass, even though they seem like they would be very fun as a class normally, and would be better with some simple buffs, or a rework, which I think would be great.
IMO the "best" arcane tradition is very much dependent on the kind of game you're playing. In a RP-heavy, intrigue campaign, Enchantment and Illusion are found to be more powerful than usual, whereas in a hack-and-slash, dungeon crawl style game where combat is prioritized, the Evoker, War mage, and Abjurer will be optimal choices. Divination and Chronurgy will always be quite powerful, often even verging on broken level, to the point where they are banned from many tables. Conjuration and Necromancy both revolve around the use of minions (undead/summoned creatures), and can be incredibly strong or rather middling depending on how your DM and table reacts to this playstyle (and the obvious moral dilemnas with Necromancers). Transmutation was never outstanding, and now feels like a wizard trying to dress up as an artificer. Bladesinging is great, nothing more to be said, and Order of Scribes, though often complex and niche, is my personal favorite tradition.
Regardless of your arcane tradition, you will still end up a very powerful character. You're still a wizard. Just pick whichever sounds the most fun and interesting to you.
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In my experience...
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My Rankings are
1. Chronurgy
2. Divination
3. Graviturgy
4. Bladesinger
5.Necromancy
6. Evocation
7. Abjuration
8. Illusion
9. War mage
10. Transmutation
Does this seem correct?
This is your list of what you prefer, so no one can actually tell you it's wrong. However, we don't know what you're ranking them based on, so it's hard to discuss this or provide feedback.
Are you ranking them based on their pure power levels? On their survivability, or ability to contribute to the party? Are you taking into account their power over the recommended adventuring day versus nova-potential, or looking at their thematic flavor?
I'd personally bump graviturgy, necromancy and evocation down a ways and add in Enchantment into the mix, even if it isn't something I'd play myself.
It's really individual. How are you ranking them? What level are you assuming?
I like Evocation and order of scribes and would never take illusion because of dragons, purple worms, and others with blindsight (a wizard with a bat familiar, a ton of underdark and cavern stuff) or tremor sense. For me, scribes and enchantment are and conjuration on the top 10 list but not illusion or bladesinger and graviturgy are not.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
Looks like OP didn't think they were top ten.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
I just don't know some of those that you refer to, but I guess I did just forget scribes, but they are very interesting. This isn't just comments on my rankings, I made this to see other people's ranking, as for how they are ranked, that is up to the individual.
Order of scribes is good for an OP multiclass combo: 2 levels in tempest cleric and then go order of scribes. Yes, you get martial weapons and heavy armor and also a channel divinity feature that does max damage on lightning or thunder damage combined with the OOS ability to change damage types (as long as have a spell with that damage type in that spell level and some spells have multiple damage types). Also, if you get an amulet of divinity, you get an extra channel of divinity and the spell pluses stack with arcane grimoire or wand of the war caster (you may want war caster feat at that point).
Ok, here is my top 10 order:
1. Chronurgy
2. Divination
3. Evocation (Protecting allies from AEO works really well with spells like Sickening Radiance, upcast fireballs, and other AOE spells, and overchannel is nice and you get a free one. Also, some of the best DPS in the game.)
4. Abjuration
5. Conjuration
6. Necromancy
7. Order of Scribes
8. War Mage
9. Enchantment (Not a huge fan of this or Illusion at high levels)
10. Blood Magic (this one is new to me but not a fan of damaging myself as a wizard)
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
I think Scribes are a really interesting combination for multiclass, and they are actually one of the best wizard subclasses, I just forgot about them. Bladesinger's are fun though.
I think you guys are underselling scribes a bit, and overselling its m/c value. As far as m/c goes, changing the damage type only applies to wizard spells. So a 2-level dip lets you change damage type on a couple level 1 wizard spells, but that’s all. It doesn’t help with your cleric spells.
As far as why it’s better, you can change the damage type on the fly. No need to have multiple damage type spells prepared, just have them in your book. To go with the above example, you’d need both burning hands and thunderwave prepped. But as a scribe wizard, you only need one or the other, and can freely switch damage type. Or learn chromatic orb, and be able to change any of your first level spells damage to, well, not everything, but lots of things.
Also, ritual spells as an action is sweet.
Manifest mind, unlike a familiar, can’t be damaged, only dispelled. It can’t hide, and is glowing, so not stealthy, but you pop it up and there’s little most enemies can do about it. And it can appear anywhere within 60 feet. Have it appear on the other side of the wall. If anyone is in there, it can fireball the room. Or lightning ball the room. Or thunderball the room. Or bludgeoningball the room.
Agreed people don’t make scrolls, but that’s a little because it’s such a PITA. But with this, you’re basically getting an extra spell slot a day. One free use of shield, thank you. And free upcast is nothing to sneeze at, not that it would help with shield. Though you would lose the ability to switch damage types on the fly. I wonder about the ruling for scribing them. Like scribe an acid arrow but it does fire damage.
Negating all damage against you is huge. At 14th level, it can be a lot of damage. Also at that point, you’ve probably got a few spells you barely use anymore.
btw, thanks for this thread. I’m playing my first wizard since 2e in a campaign next month. Reading everyone’s takes has been helpful.
I was about to play one in Strixhaven and then realized you need a lot of spells in your spellbook for this subclass and you gain money so slowly in Strix (5G per week per job and you are allowed 1 or 2), so it made more sense to select a class with a discount on scribing (I took Satyr evoker).
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
I think illusion mage should be ranked towards the lower part, if not bottom of the ranking, because illusions are ultimately the realm of DM fiat and I can't stand the idea that some plan is reliant on my DM's mood.
And, blindsight, tremor sense, and true sight will ruin your day!
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
Enchantment is kind of situational, and is pretty underpowered compared to subclasses like Illusion, Evocation, or Necromancy. Necromancy is a really underrated subclass, and that first 2nd level feature makes you a straight pain to kill.
Scribes is tops imo. Awakened Spellbook and Manifest Mind are insanely good features. You can see and hear through the eyes of the Awakened Spellbook with no action required! Cast a spell from the Awakened Spellbook's location, up to 300 ft away, as if you were there instead? Powerful! Awakened Spellbook can't be hurt or destroyed, except by a Dispel Magic (3rd level spell) and you can re-summon it as a bonus action for a 1st level spell slot!
This is essentially a non-killable familiar, requiring zero action to see through the Awakened Spellbook's eyes. And define "nearby?" The Awakened Spellbook can be up to 300 ft away! That's a pretty large distance in a dungeon.
When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can replace the damage of that spell with another damage type that appears in your spellbook (same level as spell slot you cast caveat). This is better than a sorcerer's meta magic, transmuted spell (more possible damage types) and doesn't cost any resources like a sorcery point.
DivinationEnchantmentEdited error
You have divination listed at #3 and 5.
The thing with evocation is you can do AOE like sickening radiance which does damage every round but protect your enemies or have party members carry and smash multiple otilukes freezing spheres (and be protected from the spell) plus RAW you can overchannel sickening radiance for all its rounds or disintegrate for a lot of damage. Makes evokers one of the best at DPR if not the best. Also, you may not be the only spellcaster in the party that can cast balltefield control spells....druids, sorcerers, bards, etc can take that role.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
The thing is, the way I read sculpt spell, its "when you cast" you can create the safe zones. So on the first round they're OK, but that doesn't necessarily apply to subsequent rounds, since they are no longer casting, just concentrating. Seems like a DM ruling situation there. Maybe, if the ally doesn't move, you can argue you've hollowed out that one square as a safe spot. But If I were DM'ing, I don't know I'd let them move around in the area without taking damage. And I also don't think I'd give them a free pass for the entire spell duration.
It just protects those you specify: nothing is written about safe zones: "The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save." I'm going with Jeremy Crawford's ruling:
"Sculpt Spells is used the turn you cast a spell and is intended to affect only saves made that turn. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save. RAW, it works on all the saves #DnD."
So, they didn't intend for it to protect you every turn...but that is how it is written RAW, and they didn't feel strongly enough to update with errata.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
I finally took a look at the blood magic subclass, because it has pretty mixed opinions. Some say it's weak, some say strong, some say fun, some say boring. The first two class features, Blood Channeling and Sanguine Burst are pretty decent, but not all that notable or powerful. Bond of Mutual Suffering is pretty cool, and can be pretty powerful in certain situations, like when a dragon blasts with their 60+ damage breath, and you can have them take that damage. The problem is that you can only use it sparingly in between rests. It would honestly be better if you could use something like 3 times, right when you get it at 6th level. Glyph of Hemmorrhaging kind of sucks, because it's literally Hex, a 1st level spell, as a 10th level feature. I don't think I should explain why this sucks. The final feature, Thicker Than Water, is nice, sure, but it lacks its role as a 14th level class feature heavily. Overall, they kind of suck as a subclass, even though they seem like they would be very fun as a class normally, and would be better with some simple buffs, or a rework, which I think would be great.
IMO the "best" arcane tradition is very much dependent on the kind of game you're playing. In a RP-heavy, intrigue campaign, Enchantment and Illusion are found to be more powerful than usual, whereas in a hack-and-slash, dungeon crawl style game where combat is prioritized, the Evoker, War mage, and Abjurer will be optimal choices. Divination and Chronurgy will always be quite powerful, often even verging on broken level, to the point where they are banned from many tables. Conjuration and Necromancy both revolve around the use of minions (undead/summoned creatures), and can be incredibly strong or rather middling depending on how your DM and table reacts to this playstyle (and the obvious moral dilemnas with Necromancers). Transmutation was never outstanding, and now feels like a wizard trying to dress up as an artificer. Bladesinging is great, nothing more to be said, and Order of Scribes, though often complex and niche, is my personal favorite tradition.
Regardless of your arcane tradition, you will still end up a very powerful character. You're still a wizard. Just pick whichever sounds the most fun and interesting to you.
In my experience...