For other rules which don’t stack bonuses, the rules say so. For example, the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat specifies that it only grants its bonus if you don’t already have it. So, RAW, they stack.
the thing with Expertise is that it’s a hard cap. Wizards can take proficiency+expertise in arcana to have 2xproficiency added to their Int for a maximum benefit of +17 until Epic Boons. Clerics and Druids don’t even need to multiclass because expertise if available through a feat, so they get that +17 if their INT is +0, and if they have higher Int then it counts 100%, so if you start out with high Wis and Int, it’s very possible to have a +22 without multiclassing for a cleric or Druid.
Ive tested this with the character creator, and it adds both when multiclassed, so I was able to get (using Point Buy and ASI) 20 Wis with 20 Int, with Magician and Thaumaturge cleric/Druid 1/16 for an Arcana of +27, and that’s before Epic Boon stat increases are considered.
im not saying that druids or clerics should be nerfed. I’m saying that it is supremely odd that Wizards don’t have any mechanic for increasing their INT abilities beyond the normal expertise when 2 other classes can do so. For a class whose entire identity is "I got good by studying/practicing/working hard", it’s bizarre to me that the priest classes will outshine them in the Wizards’ most iconic skill. It feels like someone decided, for no apparent reason, that Fighters could add their Strength modifier to their Stealth checks along with Dex.
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"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol "Failure means you've tried." -RB
Nex_Ou brought up something I had not thought of. While I do not think a Druid/Clerics bonus would stack but not suing the already existing expertise model, it would stack with expertise giving outsized benefits if someone take a feat that grants expertise. And it would not take a brilliant cleric to pull it off. If you are going the scholar cleric route odd are you are not dump stating int, so 14ish is not crazy, 20 from Wisdom, so 7 from stats, and lets say +8from proficiency at level 9 +15 to a skill at level 9 on a full caster seems kind of crazy to me. I know they dropped the class classification thing of expert group, but the background idea does exist some classes are more skill focused. given how lame these skills(well almost all skills in general thanks to bounded accuracy) are I don't think it breaks the game. But it may cause some issues at a table.
They had a mechanic that didn't stack, expertise. They should have just stuck with it.
"They had a mechanic that didn't stack, expertise. They should have just stuck with it."
It is indeed a problem, cause it someway somehow change dc balance and dc building and dc meaning. The fact that cleric didnt take religion or druid nature, is an other problem that could have been adressed WITHOUT creating a new problem, there are ways to circle around things...
The 2024 nearly solved as much solution as they have created problems unfortunately ...
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InsiderFor other rules which don’t stack bonuses, the rules say so. For example, the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat specifies that it only grants its bonus if you don’t already have it. So, RAW, they stack.
the thing with Expertise is that it’s a hard cap. Wizards can take proficiency+expertise in arcana to have 2xproficiency added to their Int for a maximum benefit of +17 until Epic Boons. Clerics and Druids don’t even need to multiclass because expertise if available through a feat, so they get that +17 if their INT is +0, and if they have higher Int then it counts 100%, so if you start out with high Wis and Int, it’s very possible to have a +22 without multiclassing for a cleric or Druid.
Ive tested this with the character creator, and it adds both when multiclassed, so I was able to get (using Point Buy and ASI) 20 Wis with 20 Int, with Magician and Thaumaturge cleric/Druid 1/16 for an Arcana of +27, and that’s before Epic Boon stat increases are considered.
im not saying that druids or clerics should be nerfed. I’m saying that it is supremely odd that Wizards don’t have any mechanic for increasing their INT abilities beyond the normal expertise when 2 other classes can do so. For a class whose entire identity is "I got good by studying/practicing/working hard", it’s bizarre to me that the priest classes will outshine them in the Wizards’ most iconic skill. It feels like someone decided, for no apparent reason, that Fighters could add their Strength modifier to their Stealth checks along with Dex.
"Stories never end. They merely mark the beginning of the next chapter." -Rory Bristol
"Failure means you've tried." -RB
Nex_Ou brought up something I had not thought of. While I do not think a Druid/Clerics bonus would stack but not suing the already existing expertise model, it would stack with expertise giving outsized benefits if someone take a feat that grants expertise. And it would not take a brilliant cleric to pull it off. If you are going the scholar cleric route odd are you are not dump stating int, so 14ish is not crazy, 20 from Wisdom, so 7 from stats, and lets say +8from proficiency at level 9 +15 to a skill at level 9 on a full caster seems kind of crazy to me. I know they dropped the class classification thing of expert group, but the background idea does exist some classes are more skill focused. given how lame these skills(well almost all skills in general thanks to bounded accuracy) are I don't think it breaks the game. But it may cause some issues at a table.
They had a mechanic that didn't stack, expertise. They should have just stuck with it.
"They had a mechanic that didn't stack, expertise. They should have just stuck with it."
It is indeed a problem, cause it someway somehow change dc balance and dc building and dc meaning.
The fact that cleric didnt take religion or druid nature, is an other problem that could have been adressed WITHOUT creating a new problem, there are ways to circle around things...
The 2024 nearly solved as much solution as they have created problems unfortunately ...
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