For everyone complaining about needing to buy books again because you went physical first, the core class features are all free from basic rules, and you can use Homebrew to recreate any subclasses, spells, feats, etc. you already have physically so long as you keep that homebrew in your private collection rather than making it public. Is that notably less convenient than having it pre-built? Yes. That is what you're paying for when you buy the product on D&DB, the convenience of someone else having spent the time and effort to set up all these things so they integrate with the character sheet. And charging a monthly amount cheaper than a lot of fast food meals anymore in exchange for access to their creation tools and near unlimited storage is hardly an egregious ask. Again, this is a for-profit enterprise for a hobby, not a charity, and on top of that a website like this with all these integrated components does require continuous upkeep. The physical books and this site are two separate products; owning one does not create any obligation for WotC to provide you with the other gratis.
I mean… Yeah, all those things are true, but I think the primary argument in the context of this particular issue is that if you already have the physical copy of a book, going on DDB and paying for the pieces of it that you want instead of the whole thing felt more like a convenience fee than having no choice but to purchase the whole book digitally or find a workaround.
Sure, there are plenty of people who believe that if they bought the book physically, they are entitled to use it with the digital tools on DDB free of charge, but that’s another beast. Pretty sure one of the main sore spots is just that á la carte was a super convenient and user-friendly feature that helped to make DDB unique, and to have it spirited away in the dead of night with no explanation just feels gross.
That's not what happened. How about comparing it to no longer being able to order the $6 starter you really enjoyed and being told you can now only order it as part of a $90 3-part course that includes the main you don't even like. It's irrelevant to me if that's how other restaurants do it, I came to this particular restaurant because I could order the starter separately.
personally i wouldnt make the decision based of a starter (1 class or feat or species, etc), i would just order a meal that i might enjoy (in this case what ever themed book it may be), highly likely from the same restaurant (dndbeyond) and ill still enjoy my meal in full (dnd)
The piecemeal was like a taste that making me wanted more. Why do you think company give free samples away? You're trying to get more customers into your pool by giving taste of your product and they gradually spend more and more. If I have no intentions to buy your product now, how would you change my mind? Marketing? They may have all the reasons from their business prospective. From my view, as a customer, the product is less appealing to me as the cost for using now has changed a lot.
I have not read through the whole thread but curious if anyone knows what the “spin” is on this from Beyond? How it is good for us? LOL.
While there is no need to read the entire thread, I do recommend reading the posts by D&D Beyond’s Community Manager, LaTiaJacquise. There is a button on the thread which skips you to the staff posts - on desktop, it is at the top of the thread; on mobile, you have to turn the view to landscape, then can find it at the top of the thread. Once you find the first post, you can use the “next staff post” button to skip to the next official post on the subject. As far as I am aware, this represents the totality of the official responses on the subject (other than things like the announcement post on the homepage).
You might be surprised to see there has been a complete lack of “spin” in these responses. Beyond that, I will not try to characterize the posts and recommend you read them yourself so you can form your own opinion.
I have not read through the whole thread but curious if anyone knows what the “spin” is on this from Beyond? How it is good for us? LOL.
There isn't any spin that I've seen, which I'm grateful for. It's a business decision, one that isn't a question of ethics (at least, not fundamentally so). That doesn't mean it's a good decision, just it's not about righteousness v evil.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Seems to me that it’s in prep for the 2024 PHB etc.
Cost of living is at an all time high, so why wouldn’t WOTC decide to up all their prices, throw things into crazy expensive bundles (like the spelljammer triple book) and then remove any option that means a customer spends less than $10. :/
Seems to me that it’s in prep for the 2024 PHB etc.
Cost of living is at an all time high, so why wouldn’t WOTC decide to up all their prices, throw things into crazy expensive bundles (like the spelljammer triple book) and then remove any option that means a customer spends less than $10. :/
The cost of living argument is not particularly relevant to a disposable income product. D&D is a hobby, not an essential. They’ve still released and are going to continue to release standalone books, and price-wise the books are still about the equivalent of 2 or 3 mid-price fast food/takeout meals and have been that way for years, so it’s not as though WotC specifically has been pumping up their prices.
I tend to buy physical books, and also the piecemeal character options I can share with my players. Definitely not moving away from my preference for hardcovers, and even more definitely not buying two full copies.
If I have to purchase the entire book, I will go back to purchasing things on Roll20 or other fully functional VTT. This was a huge mistake on the part of WoTC.
It's a strange thing for Hasbro/WotC to do. They want to tap into the whales, but as a high spender in the system this new cash grab is pushing me and my abused wallet into the arms of third party content creators more and more. I would love to buy more from the source, but I only will buy if it's actually useful content. Now I can't even get what I want from the useless content being shilled out en mass.
Out of curiosity for the people who only bought piecemeal, how often were you buying things here? Once a month, twice a month, every two months? And how much did you typically spend at a time?
Out of curiosity for the people who only bought piecemeal, how often were you buying things here? Once a month, twice a month, every two months? And how much did you typically spend at a time?
I personally would find myself piece mealing 1-2 times a week if I wanted to see stats on a new build. In a month I'd easily drop $30, more than I ever will now having to buy books in full. Over 2 months I have recorded $67 because I had piece meal'd Tashas Cauldron, then picked up many other races, sub-classes, and items.
Out of curiosity for the people who only bought piecemeal, how often were you buying things here? Once a month, twice a month, every two months? And how much did you typically spend at a time?
I personally would find myself piece mealing 1-2 times a week if I wanted to see stats on a new build. In a month I'd easily drop $30, more than I ever will now having to buy books in full. Over 2 months I have recorded $67 because I had piece meal'd Tashas Cauldron, then picked up many other races, sub-classes, and items.
I will also repeat this as many time as I need to, this is the only time I will ever support micro transactions. DNDbeyond provided an awesome way for power gamers, and new players to dip their feet into whatever they wanted to.
Getting rid of this feature feels like a ridiculous step backwards. I will refuse to accept someone saying we as players are in the wrong for wanting this rolled back, we cannot accept this blatant act of anti-consumerism.
I have not read through the whole thread but curious if anyone knows what the “spin” is on this from Beyond? How it is good for us? LOL.
There isn't any spin that I've seen, which I'm grateful for. It's a business decision, one that isn't a question of ethics (at least, not fundamentally so). That doesn't mean it's a good decision, just it's not about righteousness v evil.
There's such a thing as having respect for your customers. Springing the removal of individual purchases on without warning what (before buyout by WotC) was something of a community of supporters here, not just wallets to pick, creates an awful feeling and aversion to further supporting their products. Poisoning the community. Not evil. Stupid, greedy, harmful if they were seeking to build good will for their brand. If they realise they cut off an entry into D&D and buying here, as all these comments are saying, maybe they will admit this as yet another corporate mistake and backtrack. But I doubt it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DId you know? The DDB marketplace has REMOVED the option for purchasing one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters "a la carte". Now you ALWAYS have to buy the ENTIRE book instead.
Unhappy? UNSUBSCRIBE and Let them know your thoughts!
I have not read through the whole thread but curious if anyone knows what the “spin” is on this from Beyond? How it is good for us? LOL.
There isn't any spin that I've seen, which I'm grateful for. It's a business decision, one that isn't a question of ethics (at least, not fundamentally so). That doesn't mean it's a good decision, just it's not about righteousness v evil.
There's such a thing as having respect for your customers. Springing the removal of individual purchases on without warning what (before buyout by WotC) was something of a community of supporters here, not just wallets to pick, creates an awful feeling and aversion to further supporting their products. Poisoning the community. Not evil. Stupid, greedy, harmful if they were seeking to build good will for their brand. If they realise they cut off an entry into D&D and buying here, as all these comments are saying, maybe they will admit this as yet another corporate mistake and backtrack. But I doubt it.
They didn’t do this on a whim; they did this because someone had numbers that piecemeal was a less effective revenue stream than only offering the books. They’re not going alter course at this point just because a couple dozen people sound off online, and this simply is not going to attract the interest to pull or sustain much more attention than what we’re seeing right now. Maybe if they start losing out on sales they’ll reconsider, but they clearly have some reason to believe they have at least better than even odds of things going the other way and nobody here is going to have enough info to gainsay that assessment by the numbers.
I have not read through the whole thread but curious if anyone knows what the “spin” is on this from Beyond? How it is good for us? LOL.
There isn't any spin that I've seen, which I'm grateful for. It's a business decision, one that isn't a question of ethics (at least, not fundamentally so). That doesn't mean it's a good decision, just it's not about righteousness v evil.
There's such a thing as having respect for your customers. Springing the removal of individual purchases on without warning what (before buyout by WotC) was something of a community of supporters here, not just wallets to pick, creates an awful feeling and aversion to further supporting their products. Poisoning the community. Not evil. Stupid, greedy, harmful if they were seeking to build good will for their brand. If they realise they cut off an entry into D&D and buying here, as all these comments are saying, maybe they will admit this as yet another corporate mistake and backtrack. But I doubt it.
They didn’t do this on a whim; they did this because someone had numbers that piecemeal was a less effective revenue stream than only offering the books. They’re not going alter course at this point just because a couple dozen people sound off online, and this simply is not going to attract the interest to pull or sustain much more attention than what we’re seeing right now. Maybe if they start losing out on sales they’ll reconsider, but they clearly have some reason to believe they have at least better than even odds of things going the other way and nobody here is going to have enough info to gainsay that assessment by the numbers.
Whoever run them numbers should be fired. I just wonder if the removal of a-la’-carte is the Order 66 of the former management?
They didn’t do this on a whim; they did this because someone had numbers that piecemeal was a less effective revenue stream than only offering the books. They’re not going alter course at this point just because a couple dozen people sound off online, and this simply is not going to attract the interest to pull or sustain much more attention than what we’re seeing right now. Maybe if they start losing out on sales they’ll reconsider, but they clearly have some reason to believe they have at least better than even odds of things going the other way and nobody here is going to have enough info to gainsay that assessment by the numbers.
A D&D staff member literally asked us to share our feedback, friend. I believe that’s what we’re doing.
I mean… Yeah, all those things are true, but I think the primary argument in the context of this particular issue is that if you already have the physical copy of a book, going on DDB and paying for the pieces of it that you want instead of the whole thing felt more like a convenience fee than having no choice but to purchase the whole book digitally or find a workaround.
Sure, there are plenty of people who believe that if they bought the book physically, they are entitled to use it with the digital tools on DDB free of charge, but that’s another beast. Pretty sure one of the main sore spots is just that á la carte was a super convenient and user-friendly feature that helped to make DDB unique, and to have it spirited away in the dead of night with no explanation just feels gross.
kinda - more along the lines "you cant miss what you never had"
True
personally i wouldnt make the decision based of a starter (1 class or feat or species, etc), i would just order a meal that i might enjoy (in this case what ever themed book it may be), highly likely from the same restaurant (dndbeyond) and ill still enjoy my meal in full (dnd)
The piecemeal was like a taste that making me wanted more. Why do you think company give free samples away? You're trying to get more customers into your pool by giving taste of your product and they gradually spend more and more. If I have no intentions to buy your product now, how would you change my mind? Marketing? They may have all the reasons from their business prospective. From my view, as a customer, the product is less appealing to me as the cost for using now has changed a lot.
While there is no need to read the entire thread, I do recommend reading the posts by D&D Beyond’s Community Manager, LaTiaJacquise. There is a button on the thread which skips you to the staff posts - on desktop, it is at the top of the thread; on mobile, you have to turn the view to landscape, then can find it at the top of the thread. Once you find the first post, you can use the “next staff post” button to skip to the next official post on the subject. As far as I am aware, this represents the totality of the official responses on the subject (other than things like the announcement post on the homepage).
You might be surprised to see there has been a complete lack of “spin” in these responses. Beyond that, I will not try to characterize the posts and recommend you read them yourself so you can form your own opinion.
There isn't any spin that I've seen, which I'm grateful for. It's a business decision, one that isn't a question of ethics (at least, not fundamentally so). That doesn't mean it's a good decision, just it's not about righteousness v evil.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
This is such a shitty move.
Seems to me that it’s in prep for the 2024 PHB etc.
Cost of living is at an all time high, so why wouldn’t WOTC decide to up all their prices, throw things into crazy expensive bundles (like the spelljammer triple book) and then remove any option that means a customer spends less than $10. :/
The cost of living argument is not particularly relevant to a disposable income product. D&D is a hobby, not an essential. They’ve still released and are going to continue to release standalone books, and price-wise the books are still about the equivalent of 2 or 3 mid-price fast food/takeout meals and have been that way for years, so it’s not as though WotC specifically has been pumping up their prices.
I tend to buy physical books, and also the piecemeal character options I can share with my players. Definitely not moving away from my preference for hardcovers, and even more definitely not buying two full copies.
If I have to purchase the entire book, I will go back to purchasing things on Roll20 or other fully functional VTT. This was a huge mistake on the part of WoTC.
It's a strange thing for Hasbro/WotC to do. They want to tap into the whales, but as a high spender in the system this new cash grab is pushing me and my abused wallet into the arms of third party content creators more and more. I would love to buy more from the source, but I only will buy if it's actually useful content. Now I can't even get what I want from the useless content being shilled out en mass.
Out of curiosity for the people who only bought piecemeal, how often were you buying things here? Once a month, twice a month, every two months? And how much did you typically spend at a time?
I personally would find myself piece mealing 1-2 times a week if I wanted to see stats on a new build. In a month I'd easily drop $30, more than I ever will now having to buy books in full. Over 2 months I have recorded $67 because I had piece meal'd Tashas Cauldron, then picked up many other races, sub-classes, and items.
Just going to leave this here.
I will also repeat this as many time as I need to, this is the only time I will ever support micro transactions. DNDbeyond provided an awesome way for power gamers, and new players to dip their feet into whatever they wanted to.
Getting rid of this feature feels like a ridiculous step backwards. I will refuse to accept someone saying we as players are in the wrong for wanting this rolled back, we cannot accept this blatant act of anti-consumerism.
There's such a thing as having respect for your customers.
Springing the removal of individual purchases on without warning what (before buyout by WotC) was something of a community of supporters here, not just wallets to pick, creates an awful feeling and aversion to further supporting their products. Poisoning the community.
Not evil. Stupid, greedy, harmful if they were seeking to build good will for their brand.
If they realise they cut off an entry into D&D and buying here, as all these comments are saying, maybe they will admit this as yet another corporate mistake and backtrack.
But I doubt it.
DId you know?
The DDB marketplace has REMOVED the option for purchasing one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters "a la carte".
Now you ALWAYS have to buy the ENTIRE book instead.
Unhappy? UNSUBSCRIBE and
Let them know your thoughts!
Good grief.
This is troubling and I am gutted. The ala carte purchases were a god send for me and my players, who are on a fixed income in South Africa.
The DnD playing community had just started to thrive here. I'm afraid that this will just stop the momentum.
It's just ridiculous.
Eish (South African expression of exasperation)
They didn’t do this on a whim; they did this because someone had numbers that piecemeal was a less effective revenue stream than only offering the books. They’re not going alter course at this point just because a couple dozen people sound off online, and this simply is not going to attract the interest to pull or sustain much more attention than what we’re seeing right now. Maybe if they start losing out on sales they’ll reconsider, but they clearly have some reason to believe they have at least better than even odds of things going the other way and nobody here is going to have enough info to gainsay that assessment by the numbers.
Whoever run them numbers should be fired. I just wonder if the removal of a-la’-carte is the Order 66 of the former management?
A D&D staff member literally asked us to share our feedback, friend. I believe that’s what we’re doing.
Please bring back à la carte purchases.