I have spent years with DnDBeyond. Over the past year, since the whole OGL thing, I have seen so many players not just leave DnDBeyond, but leave DnD completely.
Through all of the trials of the past year or so, I have stayed loyal to the game and DnDBeyond. I mean, I get players mocking me for still using DnDBeyond. I run two regular campaigns. I play in two others (usually 4 others, but two are on break).
I stream live games on Twitch. I have around 200 recorded games on youtube, most of which I DMed.
My method is to use DnDBeyond for characters and their actions...and Roll20 for running the games.
The DnDBeyond Maps thing is not nearly good enough for me to run games.
So for years now, I have bought the character related items a la carte, and bought my monsters and campaigns from Roll20. I've bought a couple full books on DnDBeyond, but not many.
But I have been a constant subscriber for years.
The removal of a la carte purchasing has forced a change upon me.
Let me clarify...over the past year, I have not just constantly heard the haters of DnD bad mouth it, but I have multiple players from all around the world who flatout refuse to use DnDBeyond.
Now, I have begun transitioning away from DnDBeyond. I have started buying full books at Roll20, books that focus on settings, races, classes and items.
Keep in mind that up until now, I only bought that content here a la carte.
But now I must join the masses and abandon DnDBeyond. I'm not hapoy about it, but I no longer have any choice. All of my adventures are already on Roll20. It is a fully functional system, and they are making improvements to the character sheet system.
It just makes a lot more sense for me to fully move to there. I cannot wait for WotC to get things right here...and they have taken away the greatest reason to remain here.
Before this mess, I was thinking of starting to buy the Adventure books here and gradually transition fully to DnDBeyond over time. I figured the Maps would eventually become usable...but the removal of individual purchases has flipped the script on me.
Now I have to gradually buy the character content on Roll20 instead. It's going to take me a couple months, as I am on a fixed income, but, well, it is what it is.
So, if DnDBeyond is going to restore a la carte, they need to do it before the transition to Roll20 starts, because once I start, I'm committed.
I don't think I'll ever be anti-DnD...but I never thought I would leave DnDBeyond either :(
The internet is driven by the angry. It is baked into the very algorithms which promote content and exploits a known bug in human psychology that we tend to gravitate toward anger rather than positive messaging. Those voices might be the loudest you see online - but they hardly ever actually represent the masses.
The reality? D&D Beyond is very popular - much more popular than those who dislike it want to admit. Popular enough a company with a significant cash shortage was willing to shell out over $140 million for it. Popular enough that it gained more members over the course of the OGL issue than if lost.
I am not super happy with how they handled the removal of piecemeal purchases and have voiced my displeasure across a number of threads. I wish they had done this differently - or not at all.
But the reality? This is not going to kill Beyond. Sure, they probably will lose some numbers (and probably gain a fair bit of those back, once people remember Roll 20 and the like do not offer piecemeal purchases either and have worse character sheets and building tools). But the game continues to grow. And, with the revised rules soon to release, there almost certainly will be a renewed interest in the game and an influx of new and returning players. A new generation of Beyond players are never going to even know piecemeal was an option - nor have any reason to know, as no competitors offer piecemeal either.
Each player should make their own decision - and if leaving is the right decision for you, then, by all means, good luck on Roll20. But no one should make that decision under the illusion that they will be part of some majority movement to kill Beyond. If the OGL mess could not even turn the tide, this almost certainly will not either.
The simple fact that the conversation in these forums around ALC purchases has died down so fast highlights what a tempest in a teacup the outrage against it really was, imo. WotC presumably made the business decision that leaving that purchasing model in place was less profitable than the alternative, and so they decided to change to a different model. It doesn't seem meaningfully different from a retail store changing the prices on their products from one day to the next, aside from the fact that absolutely nothing being sold here can be construed as a "necessity" and so frankly the need for a "moral attitude" that people keep appealing to in regard to practices simply doesn't apply. Which is not to say that WotC has no obligation whatsoever to behave morally, just that what pricing model they choose to offer is not any more a moral issue than any other case of a disposable income/entertainment product's offer changing. It's simply not a matter of right or wrong, just what business decision the company wishes to make.
Honestly, what I've noticed both here and during the OGL issue is that people have this mindset that once a company extends an offer and doesn't explicitly set a deadline, that offer is set in stone to future comers for all time. Which is simply not how these things work, but the fact that people make this automatic assumption then seems to be something that can set them off when they perceive that a company has "gone back on their word". Don't really have a larger overarching point there, just one guy's observation on some of the dynamics here; take it for what you will.
Well to fully kill ddb wotc need even more unpopular measures, for now it just erased one of the advantages over other competitors, could they get higher income from such decision? Probably. Could it be negative in long run? yeah, it's not like having big hq's and stuff numbers prevent companies from making bad decisions - only time will tell.
For now they definitely give boost to competitiors and increased piracy of own content, if they did expect this outcome and still considered decision profitable, well it's understandable. If wotc didn't then they simply fools.
But now I must join the masses and abandon DnDBeyond.
I don't have any statistics, but I'm afraid the exodus doesn't need to call multiple Ubers.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I bet the deal includes DDB getting a portion of every sale. Which might just actually make up for all those a la cart purchases they canceled. It might have even included removing a la cart sales or letting everyone do a la carte sales on their websites. Who knows what their deals included at this point.
Plus we all know that any place else on the internet that charges for official content has to pass a cut of the price over to WOTC. Its a copyright thing. And we know roll20 is paying WOTC for something since they have the official D&D logo on their website. So running there is not hurting WOTC at all.
And who would leave their hundreds of dollars in piecemeal purchases behind and go someplace else out of spite? That threat is as empty as the one "well I was going to buy......". No one believes you. Especially not WOTC.
And the threat of piracy will get nothing out of WOTC. At least nothing good. They already know it happens.
Any threat of just home brewing something from piracy exactly like what they no longer let you have for next to nothing will just make them slow walk any improvements to the home brew system. I can not see them removing it, DM's need the ability to make their own game specific things.
I personally would honestly be upset if I lost the ability to access the content I have already purchased. But it looks like they will keep letting people do that. Has anyone lost that ability yet?
The simple fact that the conversation in these forums around ALC purchases has died down so fast
One just has to look at other places on the internet besides DDB to understand why the "outrage" has died down so fast here, it is not because people are over it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
The simple fact that the conversation in these forums around ALC purchases has died down so fast
One just has to look at other places on the internet besides DDB to understand why the "outrage" has died down so fast here, it is not because people are over it.
And yet if we compare the activity here over this to last year and the OGL, it’s no comparison. And there were certainly no shortage of people loudly announcing they were jumping ship then either. I’m not saying everyone has moved on, but I stand by my observation that the furor is fading.
The simple fact that the conversation in these forums around ALC purchases has died down so fast
One just has to look at other places on the internet besides DDB to understand why the "outrage" has died down so fast here, it is not because people are over it.
And yet if we compare the activity here over this to last year and the OGL, it’s no comparison. And there were certainly no shortage of people loudly announcing they were jumping ship then either. I’m not saying everyone has moved on, but I stand by my observation that the furor is fading.
People keep comparing this to the ogl, the ogl only affected content creators directly, the store "upgrade" affects every DDB user that has ever bought piece meal, or that planned too. I would wager far more are affected directly over this move than the ogl. Wotc sure is handling the dissent differently this time, so comparing the two is misleading at best.
... and has gone almost nowhere useful during that time, functionally-speaking.
This is categorically incorrect - and obviously so. A VTT was added to the site as was third-party supplement support. Those are both useful functions added to the website. Now, maybe neither of those things are useful to you - but that does not mean they are not useful.
Definitely check out other platforms and tools! Beyond is still too useful to me, and since I already bought the Legendary Bundle here years ago, it is kind of difficult for me to just up and leave everything behind.
... and has gone almost nowhere useful during that time, functionally-speaking.
This is categorically incorrect - and obviously so. A VTT was added to the site as was third-party supplement support. Those are both useful functions added to the website. Now, maybe neither of those things are useful to you - but that does not mean they are not useful.
And to add to that, as much as I dislike the removal of à la carte purchases, they finally added the physical-digital bundle on Beyond now. At the same time though, the physical-digital bundle on Beyond does not give you early access anymore. Given the loss of the benefit for slight increase in ease of ordering, I do not think it is worth it, but the minor ease in ordering is some kind of improvement.
If a person bought the Legendary, Adventure, or Sourcebook Bundle before, the bundle discount gets applied to gift purchases too now even if you already own it, so that is something too. On the other hand, no one new can get those bundles anymore, so it feels like a crap shoot.
As much as I try to see the positives in the marketplace changes, I still do not like it. The benefits simply are not enough to justify the costs. I do not see myself using à la carte purchases, so its removal does not really impact me, but it is such a nice feature to have to tell new D&D players about. Bundle discounts on gift purchases is nice, but when the hell am I ever going to actually use it? I might as well just join someone's campaign and not spend any money, and whoever wants to volunteer can simply turn on content sharing so everyone will have access to ALL my stuff.
Let me clarify...over the past year, I have not just constantly heard the haters of DnD bad mouth it, but I have multiple players from all around the world who flatout refuse to use DnDBeyond.
But now I must join the masses and abandon DnDBeyond..
I don't think I'll ever be anti-DnD...but I never thought I would leave DnDBeyond either :(
- DnDPlay20
You are conflating separate, distinct things. There are legions that love D&D. There are significantly less who love wotc. The intersection on the Venn diagram is small.
Wotc is only the current steward of D&D. D&D existed long long before wotc bought the rights, and D&D will continue to exist long after wotc has relinquished the rights to D&D. This site is called D&D Beyond, not wotc Beyond.
Has wotc done another of its classic moves? No one but the accountants at wotc will know for sure, and that will take months to suss out. In the meantime, there is nothing stopping you from playing 5e, or older editions of D&D, and not giving wotc another dime.
I am glad I do not have any problems with this site.
I have 2 DM;s.One has the master tier full subscription plus all the books and many of the third party stuff. He has Dm'ed for 10 years and his on line group just throws in a few bucks each when a new book comes out and then everyone has access. Now we, in his in person group, are throwing in cash for the third party stuff we all want.
My other in person group is now doing the same with the new DM.
My third group is playing other games so we do not care about D&D when i play those.
Why do more people not do the same thing? Find a Dm and finance them. If everyone in the group throws in a fiver every month thats a whole new digital book. No need for individual piecemeal purchases.
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I have spent years with DnDBeyond. Over the past year, since the whole OGL thing, I have seen so many players not just leave DnDBeyond, but leave DnD completely.
Through all of the trials of the past year or so, I have stayed loyal to the game and DnDBeyond. I mean, I get players mocking me for still using DnDBeyond. I run two regular campaigns. I play in two others (usually 4 others, but two are on break).
I stream live games on Twitch. I have around 200 recorded games on youtube, most of which I DMed.
My method is to use DnDBeyond for characters and their actions...and Roll20 for running the games.
The DnDBeyond Maps thing is not nearly good enough for me to run games.
So for years now, I have bought the character related items a la carte, and bought my monsters and campaigns from Roll20. I've bought a couple full books on DnDBeyond, but not many.
But I have been a constant subscriber for years.
The removal of a la carte purchasing has forced a change upon me.
Let me clarify...over the past year, I have not just constantly heard the haters of DnD bad mouth it, but I have multiple players from all around the world who flatout refuse to use DnDBeyond.
Now, I have begun transitioning away from DnDBeyond. I have started buying full books at Roll20, books that focus on settings, races, classes and items.
Keep in mind that up until now, I only bought that content here a la carte.
But now I must join the masses and abandon DnDBeyond. I'm not hapoy about it, but I no longer have any choice. All of my adventures are already on Roll20. It is a fully functional system, and they are making improvements to the character sheet system.
It just makes a lot more sense for me to fully move to there. I cannot wait for WotC to get things right here...and they have taken away the greatest reason to remain here.
Before this mess, I was thinking of starting to buy the Adventure books here and gradually transition fully to DnDBeyond over time. I figured the Maps would eventually become usable...but the removal of individual purchases has flipped the script on me.
Now I have to gradually buy the character content on Roll20 instead. It's going to take me a couple months, as I am on a fixed income, but, well, it is what it is.
So, if DnDBeyond is going to restore a la carte, they need to do it before the transition to Roll20 starts, because once I start, I'm committed.
I don't think I'll ever be anti-DnD...but I never thought I would leave DnDBeyond either :(
- DnDPlay20
Check us out on Twitch, YouTube and the DISCORD!
The internet is driven by the angry. It is baked into the very algorithms which promote content and exploits a known bug in human psychology that we tend to gravitate toward anger rather than positive messaging. Those voices might be the loudest you see online - but they hardly ever actually represent the masses.
The reality? D&D Beyond is very popular - much more popular than those who dislike it want to admit. Popular enough a company with a significant cash shortage was willing to shell out over $140 million for it. Popular enough that it gained more members over the course of the OGL issue than if lost.
I am not super happy with how they handled the removal of piecemeal purchases and have voiced my displeasure across a number of threads. I wish they had done this differently - or not at all.
But the reality? This is not going to kill Beyond. Sure, they probably will lose some numbers (and probably gain a fair bit of those back, once people remember Roll 20 and the like do not offer piecemeal purchases either and have worse character sheets and building tools). But the game continues to grow. And, with the revised rules soon to release, there almost certainly will be a renewed interest in the game and an influx of new and returning players. A new generation of Beyond players are never going to even know piecemeal was an option - nor have any reason to know, as no competitors offer piecemeal either.
Each player should make their own decision - and if leaving is the right decision for you, then, by all means, good luck on Roll20. But no one should make that decision under the illusion that they will be part of some majority movement to kill Beyond. If the OGL mess could not even turn the tide, this almost certainly will not either.
The simple fact that the conversation in these forums around ALC purchases has died down so fast highlights what a tempest in a teacup the outrage against it really was, imo. WotC presumably made the business decision that leaving that purchasing model in place was less profitable than the alternative, and so they decided to change to a different model. It doesn't seem meaningfully different from a retail store changing the prices on their products from one day to the next, aside from the fact that absolutely nothing being sold here can be construed as a "necessity" and so frankly the need for a "moral attitude" that people keep appealing to in regard to practices simply doesn't apply. Which is not to say that WotC has no obligation whatsoever to behave morally, just that what pricing model they choose to offer is not any more a moral issue than any other case of a disposable income/entertainment product's offer changing. It's simply not a matter of right or wrong, just what business decision the company wishes to make.
Honestly, what I've noticed both here and during the OGL issue is that people have this mindset that once a company extends an offer and doesn't explicitly set a deadline, that offer is set in stone to future comers for all time. Which is simply not how these things work, but the fact that people make this automatic assumption then seems to be something that can set them off when they perceive that a company has "gone back on their word". Don't really have a larger overarching point there, just one guy's observation on some of the dynamics here; take it for what you will.
Well to fully kill ddb wotc need even more unpopular measures, for now it just erased one of the advantages over other competitors, could they get higher income from such decision? Probably. Could it be negative in long run? yeah, it's not like having big hq's and stuff numbers prevent companies from making bad decisions - only time will tell.
For now they definitely give boost to competitiors and increased piracy of own content, if they did expect this outcome and still considered decision profitable, well it's understandable. If wotc didn't then they simply fools.
I don't have any statistics, but I'm afraid the exodus doesn't need to call multiple Ubers.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
WOTC has added third party content to DDB.
I bet the deal includes DDB getting a portion of every sale.
Which might just actually make up for all those a la cart purchases they canceled.
It might have even included removing a la cart sales or letting everyone do a la carte sales on their websites. Who knows what their deals included at this point.
Plus we all know that any place else on the internet that charges for official content has to pass a cut of the price over to WOTC. Its a copyright thing.
And we know roll20 is paying WOTC for something since they have the official D&D logo on their website. So running there is not hurting WOTC at all.
And who would leave their hundreds of dollars in piecemeal purchases behind and go someplace else out of spite? That threat is as empty as the one "well I was going to buy......". No one believes you. Especially not WOTC.
And the threat of piracy will get nothing out of WOTC. At least nothing good. They already know it happens.
Any threat of just home brewing something from piracy exactly like what they no longer let you have for next to nothing will just make them slow walk any improvements to the home brew system. I can not see them removing it, DM's need the ability to make their own game specific things.
I personally would honestly be upset if I lost the ability to access the content I have already purchased. But it looks like they will keep letting people do that. Has anyone lost that ability yet?
One just has to look at other places on the internet besides DDB to understand why the "outrage" has died down so fast here, it is not because people are over it.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
And yet if we compare the activity here over this to last year and the OGL, it’s no comparison. And there were certainly no shortage of people loudly announcing they were jumping ship then either. I’m not saying everyone has moved on, but I stand by my observation that the furor is fading.
People keep comparing this to the ogl, the ogl only affected content creators directly, the store "upgrade" affects every DDB user that has ever bought piece meal, or that planned too. I would wager far more are affected directly over this move than the ogl. Wotc sure is handling the dissent differently this time, so comparing the two is misleading at best.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
This is categorically incorrect - and obviously so. A VTT was added to the site as was third-party supplement support. Those are both useful functions added to the website. Now, maybe neither of those things are useful to you - but that does not mean they are not useful.
Definitely check out other platforms and tools! Beyond is still too useful to me, and since I already bought the Legendary Bundle here years ago, it is kind of difficult for me to just up and leave everything behind.
And to add to that, as much as I dislike the removal of à la carte purchases, they finally added the physical-digital bundle on Beyond now. At the same time though, the physical-digital bundle on Beyond does not give you early access anymore. Given the loss of the benefit for slight increase in ease of ordering, I do not think it is worth it, but the minor ease in ordering is some kind of improvement.
If a person bought the Legendary, Adventure, or Sourcebook Bundle before, the bundle discount gets applied to gift purchases too now even if you already own it, so that is something too. On the other hand, no one new can get those bundles anymore, so it feels like a crap shoot.
As much as I try to see the positives in the marketplace changes, I still do not like it. The benefits simply are not enough to justify the costs. I do not see myself using à la carte purchases, so its removal does not really impact me, but it is such a nice feature to have to tell new D&D players about. Bundle discounts on gift purchases is nice, but when the hell am I ever going to actually use it? I might as well just join someone's campaign and not spend any money, and whoever wants to volunteer can simply turn on content sharing so everyone will have access to ALL my stuff.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
You are conflating separate, distinct things. There are legions that love D&D. There are significantly less who love wotc. The intersection on the Venn diagram is small.
Wotc is only the current steward of D&D. D&D existed long long before wotc bought the rights, and D&D will continue to exist long after wotc has relinquished the rights to D&D. This site is called D&D Beyond, not wotc Beyond.
Has wotc done another of its classic moves? No one but the accountants at wotc will know for sure, and that will take months to suss out. In the meantime, there is nothing stopping you from playing 5e, or older editions of D&D, and not giving wotc another dime.
I am glad I do not have any problems with this site.
I have 2 DM;s.One has the master tier full subscription plus all the books and many of the third party stuff. He has Dm'ed for 10 years and his on line group just throws in a few bucks each when a new book comes out and then everyone has access. Now we, in his in person group, are throwing in cash for the third party stuff we all want.
My other in person group is now doing the same with the new DM.
My third group is playing other games so we do not care about D&D when i play those.
Why do more people not do the same thing? Find a Dm and finance them. If everyone in the group throws in a fiver every month thats a whole new digital book. No need for individual piecemeal purchases.