LOL i remember D&D 1 edition The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, year 1984 i was 12. After that i switch to Dming; Keep of the borderland was the first adventure for my players, but with Basic/expert set.
When i start with new players, i Ilways start with Keep of the Borderland...
Man these rules had so many places for interpretation at that time...
Really? I think that's like saying Strawberries are the best fruit ever. If that's your opinion that's fine.
Some people don't like 'em.
Some folks are allergic to them.
"You pays your money, you takes your choice." as they say. I've made mine. If 6e (5.5) or 2024 - whatever you want to call it works for you - knock yourself out.
For me (having played every edition since '83) I'm done with 5e. WOTC aren't getting any more of my money. I quite liked BECMI and 3.x (though I like other games better) and there's still loads of things D&D doesn't do well - armour doesn't make you harder to hit for example - it reduces the damage you take when somebody does. Frankly I think the Long Rest is ridiculous - If someone has been almost killed with a machete for example (and trust me on this - I'm a nurse) they are NOT going to be "fine" or anywhere close to fully healed after a good night's kip. - Natural healing takes time. So though I respect your opinion, I disagree with it.
It's interesting you phrase it as such, but I think it's more important to question why you are applying 'real world' physics to a world of dragons and magic.
What is to say humans in DnD do not heal magically after a good nights kip? They can stop time, reverse gravity, bring people back from the dead... and yet you're concerned with versimilitude? There are species of lizards who regenerate in our world which has no 'magic'.
2024 is good, just like 2014 was good, 3rd was good, 2nd was good etc (I didnt play 4th beyond Neverwinter MMO) because learning to adapt is extremely difficult and yet makes things more enjoyable. It's fine if your opinion is 2024 sucks, but don't nitpick on things from an 'objective' standpoint for something entirely subjective. Armour does make you harder to hit FOR HIT POINT DAMAGE because HIT POINTS ARE NOT REAL, they are a simulation of damage.
Having also played for over 40yrs, I can't say that 5e2024 is the "best", though 5e was probably close. It is the current edition, and it's 'good enough' - but to be honest 5e only needed a few tweaks, and a couple things needed a slight tap of the nerf-bat - but instead they fed everything muscle milk and instead of pulling back on the power creep, they fed it fertilizer.
I can see why a lot of people do not like it.
I can see why a lot of people do like it (especially the crowd that grew up with video MMRPG games where everything does 10,000 pts of damage and everything has 'magical' abilities, even if they don't call it "magic").
I also worry that they have forgotten the lessons they should have learned from the 4e fiasco, because whereas 5e seeemd to take those lessons to heart, 5e2024 is repeating a lot of those same mistakes. 4e cost the game a LOT of players, 5e brought many of them back, but 5e2024 risks driving many away again.
At the end of the day, it is a personal choice each of us must make whether we continue to play D&D, and what edition we play. I'm sticking with 5e2024 for now, you are free to choose otherwise. Only time will tell whether this blows up in their face like 4e did, or if they manage to walk up to the edge without falling off.
Really? I think that's like saying Strawberries are the best fruit ever. If that's your opinion that's fine.
Some people don't like 'em.
Some folks are allergic to them.
"You pays your money, you takes your choice." as they say. I've made mine. If 6e (5.5) or 2024 - whatever you want to call it works for you - knock yourself out.
For me (having played every edition since '83) I'm done with 5e. WOTC aren't getting any more of my money. I quite liked BECMI and 3.x (though I like other games better) and there's still loads of things D&D doesn't do well - armour doesn't make you harder to hit for example - it reduces the damage you take when somebody does. Frankly I think the Long Rest is ridiculous - If someone has been almost killed with a machete for example (and trust me on this - I'm a nurse) they are NOT going to be "fine" or anywhere close to fully healed after a good night's kip. - Natural healing takes time. So though I respect your opinion, I disagree with it.
Man im at the same place as you are for the healing :) so true !!! !!!! Since 2014 all the tables i play love 1 house rules + 2 dmg variant about healing !!!! I just add them right here :
The 2 variants that we still use in 2024 :
Optional 2014 DMG Rules:
- Healer’s Kit Dependency: You cannot spend Hit Dice after a rest unless someone uses a Healer’s Kit.
- Slow Natural Healing: Long rests do not automatically restore HP; instead, you spend Hit Dice as in a short rest.
And the best house rule ever for 2014-2024 (i found it on forum, but don't remeber where and who made it...) :
Part 4 House Rules: Negative Hit Points Rule
Negative Hit Points Mechanic
When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you gain a number of special points called negative hit points equal to the remaining damage. Negative hit points are not considered hit points. They persist between turns, and there is no limit on how many negative hit points you can accumulate. If your total number of negative hit points equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you die.
Example:
A cleric with a maximum of 12 HP currently has 6 HP. If she takes 14 damage, she is reduced to 0 HP, but 8 damage remains. She falls unconscious, and the remaining damage is converted into 8 negative hit points. If she is hit again for 4 or more damage, she dies.
Exhaustion from Dropping to 0 HP:
Dropping to 0 HP or less grants 1 level of exhaustion (maximum 1 per day, even if you fall multiple times).
You gain 1 additional level of exhaustion per day if you remain at less than 1 HP.
A long rest at 1 HP or more is required to remove each level of exhaustion.
Death Saving Throws:
The death saving throw mechanic still applies (Player’s Handbook, p. 28).
A creature can be stable with negative HP.
A creature dies after 3 failed death saves.
Stabilizing a Creature:
If healing is unavailable, stabilization prevents further death saving throws.
Healing first reduces negative hit points. If healing reduces negative HP to 0, any remaining healing applies to positive HP.
A DC 10 Wisdom (Medicine) check can stabilize an unconscious creature.
Any magical healing stabilizes a creature if it does not restore HP above 0.
A stable creature does not make death saves but remains unconscious.
If a stable creature takes damage, it must restart death saves.
A stable creature regains 1 HP after 1d4 hours, becoming conscious even if it still has negative HP.
Special Rule: Effects That Restore 1 HP or More at 0 HP
Any feature that grants HP when a creature reaches 0 HP applies those hit points to the negative total instead.
The creature can act normally, even with negative HP, as if at positive HP.
If the creature takes further damage and still has negative HP, it falls unconscious immediately and begins death saves.
If the negative HP total equals or exceeds the creature's maximum HP, it dies.
Example:
An orc player has 8 HP at level 1. He takes 13 damage, reducing him to -5 HP. However, his racial trait grants him 1 HP instead of dropping to 0, leaving him at -4 HP. He can continue fighting normally. However, if he takes any further damage, he immediately falls unconscious and starts death saves. If his negative HP reaches -8, he dies instantly.
This summer will mark my 50th year. Dad introduced me to OD&D at age 7. Today's D&D is sure far from where it came from in terms of "rules" and the style of play. The rule books to me are guidelines and always have been. But, to introduce new players to the game, 2014/2024 rules are far superior than anything from the past.
I feel some of the best lore and adventure writing came from 3rd and 4th editions. I keep hoping that WOTC will find that style again for the sake of newer players. We'll see I guess. As for me, I rather like 5E for a great deal of reasons, but as I said, they are guidelines. I have many small modifications of those rules to my games, but its never anything that would prevent a new/newish player from picking up the book and learning to play. The game is and has always been what you make of it.
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IT's the best version ever; really.
Same boat, playing since '89, every edition. Currently in two separate campaigns that have gone from 2014 to 2024.
I agree that the updated edition is a clear improvement on the 2014 one. It's just such a shame that the dndbeyond implementation is lacking.
LOL i remember D&D 1 edition The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, year 1984 i was 12. After that i switch to Dming; Keep of the borderland was the first adventure for my players, but with Basic/expert set.
When i start with new players, i Ilways start with Keep of the Borderland...
Man these rules had so many places for interpretation at that time...
Really? I think that's like saying Strawberries are the best fruit ever. If that's your opinion that's fine.
Some people don't like 'em.
Some folks are allergic to them.
"You pays your money, you takes your choice." as they say. I've made mine. If 6e (5.5) or 2024 - whatever you want to call it works for you - knock yourself out.
For me (having played every edition since '83) I'm done with 5e. WOTC aren't getting any more of my money. I quite liked BECMI and 3.x (though I like other games better) and there's still loads of things D&D doesn't do well - armour doesn't make you harder to hit for example - it reduces the damage you take when somebody does. Frankly I think the Long Rest is ridiculous - If someone has been almost killed with a machete for example (and trust me on this - I'm a nurse) they are NOT going to be "fine" or anywhere close to fully healed after a good night's kip. - Natural healing takes time. So though I respect your opinion, I disagree with it.
Though I respect your opinion....
It's interesting you phrase it as such, but I think it's more important to question why you are applying 'real world' physics to a world of dragons and magic.
What is to say humans in DnD do not heal magically after a good nights kip? They can stop time, reverse gravity, bring people back from the dead... and yet you're concerned with versimilitude? There are species of lizards who regenerate in our world which has no 'magic'.
2024 is good, just like 2014 was good, 3rd was good, 2nd was good etc (I didnt play 4th beyond Neverwinter MMO) because learning to adapt is extremely difficult and yet makes things more enjoyable. It's fine if your opinion is 2024 sucks, but don't nitpick on things from an 'objective' standpoint for something entirely subjective. Armour does make you harder to hit FOR HIT POINT DAMAGE because HIT POINTS ARE NOT REAL, they are a simulation of damage.
Having also played for over 40yrs, I can't say that 5e2024 is the "best", though 5e was probably close. It is the current edition, and it's 'good enough' - but to be honest 5e only needed a few tweaks, and a couple things needed a slight tap of the nerf-bat - but instead they fed everything muscle milk and instead of pulling back on the power creep, they fed it fertilizer.
I can see why a lot of people do not like it.
I can see why a lot of people do like it (especially the crowd that grew up with video MMRPG games where everything does 10,000 pts of damage and everything has 'magical' abilities, even if they don't call it "magic").
I also worry that they have forgotten the lessons they should have learned from the 4e fiasco, because whereas 5e seeemd to take those lessons to heart, 5e2024 is repeating a lot of those same mistakes. 4e cost the game a LOT of players, 5e brought many of them back, but 5e2024 risks driving many away again.
At the end of the day, it is a personal choice each of us must make whether we continue to play D&D, and what edition we play. I'm sticking with 5e2024 for now, you are free to choose otherwise. Only time will tell whether this blows up in their face like 4e did, or if they manage to walk up to the edge without falling off.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
deleted and corrected
This summer will mark my 50th year. Dad introduced me to OD&D at age 7. Today's D&D is sure far from where it came from in terms of "rules" and the style of play. The rule books to me are guidelines and always have been. But, to introduce new players to the game, 2014/2024 rules are far superior than anything from the past.
I feel some of the best lore and adventure writing came from 3rd and 4th editions. I keep hoping that WOTC will find that style again for the sake of newer players. We'll see I guess. As for me, I rather like 5E for a great deal of reasons, but as I said, they are guidelines. I have many small modifications of those rules to my games, but its never anything that would prevent a new/newish player from picking up the book and learning to play. The game is and has always been what you make of it.