Hello all! I have something of a feedback point that also stands as a question, that I'd be interested to hear the answer to,
I have, sitting on my lap right this second, a physical copy of 'Out of the Abyss'. Next to me, in a pile, is my DMG, Monsters manual, Tome of Beasts, and Players Handbook. I have one of these things on D&D beyond. I spent $236.95 combined on these books. How then is it acceptable that I'm expected to pay an additional thirty dollars each to access this content on D&D beyond? and if there is a way to get this content I have already paid for on D&D beyond, why is it not easier to find?
It seems to me that this is, at best, a scheme by Hasbro to milk every possible dollar out of D&D players in order to give the illusion of convenience. So, to clarify what I meant by this post: If the current system remains as it is, I will not be using D&D beyond and looking for alternative sources to manage my campaigns/maps/etc.
Edit: Additionally, the grammar and spelling mistakes in the Adventures really discourage me from spending money on adventures I've already bought
Okay, I'm going to break down everything I said in the post because it doesn't seem like you read it.
Let's start with the Dungeon Master's Guide. Physical cost that I have already paid: $58 CAD, digital cost that DDB wants me to pay [on top of what I've already paid]: $29.99 [it doesn't say CAD or USD].
Edited by four different people. Still has Grammatical and spelling errors, yet I am still expected to pay an additional price to have digital access to it [I'll add that I Have a scanner five feet from me that I could use to scan the pages, and make my own digital database.]
Moving on to the Monster Manual, I paid: $58 CAD. The digital cost I am expected to pay is $29.99. Now, the Monster manual was edited by one person, and only contains ~154 Monsters [compared to the more than 400 in the Tome of Beasts, which costs the same]. Still has spelling and grammatical errors.
Out of the Abyss costs a little more than the others, it is $63.95 CAD. DDB expects me to pay $24.99. As I mentioned earlier, spelling errors and grammatical errors are still present, with three editors.
And the PHB costs $57 CAD [once again, already have a physical copy], and $29.99 on DDB. Four editors, previous issues are still present.
That means that, in most cases, WotC is asking people to pay more than half the physical cost for digital copies [that are still rife with errors, I'll add] of books people already have. I fail to see how this isn't a clear issue. Why wouldn't I be able to transfer my physical copies of books I've already bought to DDB? Why is WotC expecting people to spend upwards of $100 on top of the games they've already purchased for access to maps with a usable resolution?
DDB is not WotC. In order for you to use content from the PHB in DDB, you have to pay a licensing fee because DDB is not legally allowed to provide that content to you. So you are paying for two things:
DDB's work to digitize the PHB, because WoTC did not do this for them
The license fee that WoTC requires you to have to use this digital content
If you don't like how WoTC makes 3rd party pay licensing fees for their content, take it up with WoTC.
Okay, I'm going to break down everything I said in the post because it doesn't seem like you read it.
Let's start with the Dungeon Master's Guide. Physical cost that I have already paid: $58 CAD, digital cost that DDB wants me to pay [on top of what I've already paid]: $29.99 [it doesn't say CAD or USD].
Edited by four different people. Still has Grammatical and spelling errors, yet I am still expected to pay an additional price to have digital access to it [I'll add that I Have a scanner five feet from me that I could use to scan the pages, and make my own digital database.]
Moving on to the Monster Manual, I paid: $58 CAD. The digital cost I am expected to pay is $29.99. Now, the Monster manual was edited by one person, and only contains ~154 Monsters [compared to the more than 400 in the Tome of Beasts, which costs the same]. Still has spelling and grammatical errors.
Out of the Abyss costs a little more than the others, it is $63.95 CAD. DDB expects me to pay $24.99. As I mentioned earlier, spelling errors and grammatical errors are still present, with three editors.
And the PHB costs $57 CAD [once again, already have a physical copy], and $29.99 on DDB. Four editors, previous issues are still present.
That means that, in most cases, WotC is asking people to pay more than half the physical cost for digital copies [that are still rife with errors, I'll add] of books people already have. I fail to see how this isn't a clear issue. Why wouldn't I be able to transfer my physical copies of books I've already bought to DDB? Why is WotC expecting people to spend upwards of $100 on top of the games they've already purchased for access to maps with a usable resolution?
It's a service. Don't see the value, don't buy it. Plenty of people do see the value. The books have no value without the content other than the paper they are printed on. The value is in the content. You license content, you don't own it. If you buy a book at a book store, they don't give you the e-reader copy free, nor do they give you the audio book version free. You are licensing the IP, plain and simple, like putting software onto more than one computer, you have to buy a license for each computer.
You aren't "expected" to buy anything, there is no exclusive content, so if you don't want to use the service, then don't.
As for the usable resolution, you are welcome to go to a print shop, have them scan the book, and print whatever size you want (or keep the digital file), that is granted as part of the license. You can also scan all the info and use it digitally yourself all you want. But if you want to use these services, with supplied content, you have to license it.
And I am completely lost as to what editing has to do with any of it.
DDB is not WotC. In order for you to use content from the PHB in DDB, you have to pay a licensing fee because DDB is not legally allowed to provide that content to you. So you are paying for two things:
DDB's work to digitize the PHB, because WoTC did not do this for them
The license fee that WoTC requires you to have to use this digital content
If you don't like how WoTC makes 3rd party pay licensing fees for their content, take it up with WoTC.
Correct, My apologies for my error. However, According to WotC they've contracted Curse to make the DDB. Curse may have developed and they should be maintaining the project, but they by no means own it.
The ownership of a physical copy does give you a license of use, not two. And the cost of realization and maintenance of a digital product must be covered as well. Therefore we must pay to use the digital content.
I understand the money problem, but if the offering here is not appealing, you have every right to not buy anything.
I really wish we could have a single master thread for all of these and funnel everyone who says the same thing about physical vs DDB every single day into the same thread with an outline of why they are misguided. Every day seems to be a rehash of the same damn thing in this regard.
Okay, I'm going to break down everything I said in the post because it doesn't seem like you read it.
Let's start with the Dungeon Master's Guide. Physical cost that I have already paid: $58 CAD, digital cost that DDB wants me to pay [on top of what I've already paid]: $29.99 [it doesn't say CAD or USD].
Edited by four different people. Still has Grammatical and spelling errors, yet I am still expected to pay an additional price to have digital access to it [I'll add that I Have a scanner five feet from me that I could use to scan the pages, and make my own digital database.]
Moving on to the Monster Manual, I paid: $58 CAD. The digital cost I am expected to pay is $29.99. Now, the Monster manual was edited by one person, and only contains ~154 Monsters [compared to the more than 400 in the Tome of Beasts, which costs the same]. Still has spelling and grammatical errors.
Out of the Abyss costs a little more than the others, it is $63.95 CAD. DDB expects me to pay $24.99. As I mentioned earlier, spelling errors and grammatical errors are still present, with three editors.
And the PHB costs $57 CAD [once again, already have a physical copy], and $29.99 on DDB. Four editors, previous issues are still present.
That means that, in most cases, WotC is asking people to pay more than half the physical cost for digital copies [that are still rife with errors, I'll add] of books people already have. I fail to see how this isn't a clear issue. Why wouldn't I be able to transfer my physical copies of books I've already bought to DDB? Why is WotC expecting people to spend upwards of $100 on top of the games they've already purchased for access to maps with a usable resolution?
It's a service. Don't see the value, don't buy it. Plenty of people do see the value. The books have no value without the content other than the paper they are printed on. The value is in the content. You license content, you don't own it. If you buy a book at a book store, they don't give you the e-reader copy free, nor do they give you the audio book version free. You are licensing the IP, plain and simple, like putting software onto more than one computer, you have to buy a license for each computer.
You aren't "expected" to buy anything, there is no exclusive content, so if you don't want to use the service, then don't.
As for the usable resolution, you are welcome to go to a print shop, have them scan the book, and print whatever size you want (or keep the digital file), that is granted as part of the license. You can also scan all the info and use it digitally yourself all you want. But if you want to use these services, with supplied content, you have to license it.
And I am completely lost as to what editing has to do with any of it.
If I've paid $55+ for a book, and there's more than one editor, there's no reason for there to be spelling errors.
If I've already paid for a book, why then would I not be able to transfer that onto the 'service' they've set up specifically for those book?
Your questions have been answered. Your issues are with WoTC, you need to take it up there. DDB cannot legally help you in any way, shape, or form. They can not give you a "free" license if you have the physical book, and WoTC does not have any type of "digital redemption" policies.
If you buy a novel at your local book store, Amazon doesn't just give you a copy of the Kindle version. You're buying two different products from two different companies that happen to have the same content.
Curse needs to make money off their efforts to digitize the books and build tools around them. They need to pay WOTC for the content they've licensed. And WOTC needs to get paid because at least some of the time, that digital sale made on their behalf on Beyond is a physical copy they don't sell.
If I've already paid for a book, why then would I not be able to transfer that onto the 'service' they've set up specifically for those book?
Because there's no easy way for them to verify you own the book, and because it still costs money to offer you the book's contents in a digital format (data entry, hyperlinking, formatting, making the content searchable, integrating with the character builder, licensing fees, updating the content with errata...)
If I've paid $55+ for a book, and there's more than one editor, there's no reason for there to be spelling errors.
Why are you complaining about the content of the physical books? That has NO bearing on DDB. In fact, on DDB those spelling errors either already are, or can be, fixed. Curse can't control the level of editing done to the physical editions
I paid $80 for a finely bound Lord of The Rings trilogy in leather. The book is over 60 years old, seen many editions and many editors over the years, yet there are still spelling errors in my copy. Does that mean I should be able to download the Directors Cut of Peter Jackson's Lord of The Rings trilogy from iTunes for free? I mean, I already own the books. Several editions of them in fact.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Welcome to the Grand Illusion, come on in and see what's happening, pay the price, get your ticket for the show....
While I think a discount for owners of physical media would be great, ultimately the way I think about it is that DDB is far more than just a digital version of the content. It is a set of digital tools that includes a character creator, ways to fairly easily create homebrew content, indexed and searchable compendium content that is effortlessly integrated throughout the site, and more--with much more coming. If all you are looking for is digital versions of what you already own, much of the content is available that way at a reduced rate ("compendium versions") but at the end of the day if you don't see the point of the digital toolset or don't feel it is worth paying for, then DDB is probably not for you.
Again, I agree that it's be great if WotC and Curse threw book owners a bone, but acting as though there's a one to one comparison between the physical books and DDB is erroneous. They are two very different beasts.
Now I know what I say doesn't amount to a hill of beans but can we *please* not have this argument over and over every few days? Even as someone who is at least somewhat sympathetic to your argument, I think it's time we all move on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
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Hello all! I have something of a feedback point that also stands as a question, that I'd be interested to hear the answer to,
I have, sitting on my lap right this second, a physical copy of 'Out of the Abyss'. Next to me, in a pile, is my DMG, Monsters manual, Tome of Beasts, and Players Handbook. I have one of these things on D&D beyond. I spent $236.95 combined on these books. How then is it acceptable that I'm expected to pay an additional thirty dollars each to access this content on D&D beyond? and if there is a way to get this content I have already paid for on D&D beyond, why is it not easier to find?
It seems to me that this is, at best, a scheme by Hasbro to milk every possible dollar out of D&D players in order to give the illusion of convenience. So, to clarify what I meant by this post: If the current system remains as it is, I will not be using D&D beyond and looking for alternative sources to manage my campaigns/maps/etc.
Edit: Additionally, the grammar and spelling mistakes in the Adventures really discourage me from spending money on adventures I've already bought
Just for curiosity: How can you check the grammar and the spelling in the adventure modules if you have not bought them?
Because I have a physical copy of Out of the Abyss that has spelling errors in it.
And this fact, how is it a discriminant factor for the convenience of DDB?
Say it with me: CURSE is NOT WoTC.
Curse/DDB is a 3rd party just like Roll20. If DDB doesn't provide value for you in the digital goods, don't buy.
Okay, I'm going to break down everything I said in the post because it doesn't seem like you read it.
Let's start with the Dungeon Master's Guide. Physical cost that I have already paid: $58 CAD, digital cost that DDB wants me to pay [on top of what I've already paid]: $29.99 [it doesn't say CAD or USD].
Edited by four different people. Still has Grammatical and spelling errors, yet I am still expected to pay an additional price to have digital access to it [I'll add that I Have a scanner five feet from me that I could use to scan the pages, and make my own digital database.]
Moving on to the Monster Manual, I paid: $58 CAD. The digital cost I am expected to pay is $29.99. Now, the Monster manual was edited by one person, and only contains ~154 Monsters [compared to the more than 400 in the Tome of Beasts, which costs the same]. Still has spelling and grammatical errors.
Out of the Abyss costs a little more than the others, it is $63.95 CAD. DDB expects me to pay $24.99. As I mentioned earlier, spelling errors and grammatical errors are still present, with three editors.
And the PHB costs $57 CAD [once again, already have a physical copy], and $29.99 on DDB. Four editors, previous issues are still present.
That means that, in most cases, WotC is asking people to pay more than half the physical cost for digital copies [that are still rife with errors, I'll add] of books people already have. I fail to see how this isn't a clear issue. Why wouldn't I be able to transfer my physical copies of books I've already bought to DDB? Why is WotC expecting people to spend upwards of $100 on top of the games they've already purchased for access to maps with a usable resolution?
DDB is a copyright of WotC. Literally says at the bottom of the page.
DDB is not WotC. In order for you to use content from the PHB in DDB, you have to pay a licensing fee because DDB is not legally allowed to provide that content to you. So you are paying for two things:
If you don't like how WoTC makes 3rd party pay licensing fees for their content, take it up with WoTC.
You aren't "expected" to buy anything, there is no exclusive content, so if you don't want to use the service, then don't.
As for the usable resolution, you are welcome to go to a print shop, have them scan the book, and print whatever size you want (or keep the digital file), that is granted as part of the license. You can also scan all the info and use it digitally yourself all you want. But if you want to use these services, with supplied content, you have to license it.
And I am completely lost as to what editing has to do with any of it.
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
The ownership of a physical copy does give you a license of use, not two. And the cost of realization and maintenance of a digital product must be covered as well. Therefore we must pay to use the digital content.
I understand the money problem, but if the offering here is not appealing, you have every right to not buy anything.
I really wish we could have a single master thread for all of these and funnel everyone who says the same thing about physical vs DDB every single day into the same thread with an outline of why they are misguided. Every day seems to be a rehash of the same damn thing in this regard.
DM for the Adventures in Erylia Podcast
Where five friends sit around the table and record themselves playing Dungeons and Dragons
Your questions have been answered. Your issues are with WoTC, you need to take it up there. DDB cannot legally help you in any way, shape, or form. They can not give you a "free" license if you have the physical book, and WoTC does not have any type of "digital redemption" policies.
Sorry.
If you buy a novel at your local book store, Amazon doesn't just give you a copy of the Kindle version. You're buying two different products from two different companies that happen to have the same content.
Curse needs to make money off their efforts to digitize the books and build tools around them. They need to pay WOTC for the content they've licensed. And WOTC needs to get paid because at least some of the time, that digital sale made on their behalf on Beyond is a physical copy they don't sell.
Dave
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Why are you complaining about the content of the physical books? That has NO bearing on DDB. In fact, on DDB those spelling errors either already are, or can be, fixed. Curse can't control the level of editing done to the physical editions
DM for the Adventures in Erylia Podcast
Where five friends sit around the table and record themselves playing Dungeons and Dragons
I paid $80 for a finely bound Lord of The Rings trilogy in leather. The book is over 60 years old, seen many editions and many editors over the years, yet there are still spelling errors in my copy. Does that mean I should be able to download the Directors Cut of Peter Jackson's Lord of The Rings trilogy from iTunes for free? I mean, I already own the books. Several editions of them in fact.
Welcome to the Grand Illusion, come on in and see what's happening, pay the price, get your ticket for the show....
While I think a discount for owners of physical media would be great, ultimately the way I think about it is that DDB is far more than just a digital version of the content. It is a set of digital tools that includes a character creator, ways to fairly easily create homebrew content, indexed and searchable compendium content that is effortlessly integrated throughout the site, and more--with much more coming. If all you are looking for is digital versions of what you already own, much of the content is available that way at a reduced rate ("compendium versions") but at the end of the day if you don't see the point of the digital toolset or don't feel it is worth paying for, then DDB is probably not for you.
Again, I agree that it's be great if WotC and Curse threw book owners a bone, but acting as though there's a one to one comparison between the physical books and DDB is erroneous. They are two very different beasts.
Now I know what I say doesn't amount to a hill of beans but can we *please* not have this argument over and over every few days? Even as someone who is at least somewhat sympathetic to your argument, I think it's time we all move on.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)