I'm playing in a campaign, mostly RP, but when it comes to combat, we are horribly slow. For example, our first dungeon took three sessions. THREE SESSIONS! That's just way too much. So, anyone have some suggestions to speeding up combat?
How many combats were in that dungeon? How long are your sessions? What other stuff was going on? Depending on its scale, taking three sessions to complete a dungeon may not be out of line.
It was the first dungeon of LMoP, Cragmaw Hideout. I don't know if 3 sessions was acceptable, but it felt extremely long
30 Second Sand timer. If the GM flips, you spend your round doing nothing. Knowing your PC. Knowing your fellow pcs. Before or after sessions discuss tactics. Dibs. Highest DPR person takes on the big foe, everyone else takes on the minions.
We tried a timer. That didn't work. It was still really slow
Trying a timer and actually sticking to a timer are 2 different things.
Setting a timer. Watching the sand move, then immediately (in less than second), saying, "time's up." "Mark you are up next" while simultaneously flipping the timer is very different from
Setting a timer. Watching the sand move, then upon the last grain falling, saying, "Hey man, your time is up. Do something quick. Time is up. Now, or you just sit there!", subsquently followed by a quick question and answer or a quick resolution from the acting player, followed by letting them finish up their 12 second turn, while you simultaneously flip the hourglass as you call out the next player.
Of course, your timer might be 90 seconds. That's too long
As some one has said, what's the focus of your game? If it's dungeon running and heavy combat, what's wrong with 3 sessions of it? Are you, other players, or the DM feeling bad that you aren't getting to other content? Is the content you aren't getting to as important to those that like fighting? Why get to the RP of it all if everyone at the table likes fighting more?
Something else is off. Usually it's not that you don't have a fix in place. It's that you aren't actually adhering to the fix and thinking you are.
Also, what are you comparing to? Veteran roleplayers online or via stream? Maybe you have very new players. Complex character- wizards with lots of spells vs. a berserker barbarian. Maybe your DM doesn't have a handle on the rules- conditions, cover, hiding, vision and light. Maybe your DM is juggling 7 monsters and has to flip through the monster manual between their turns.
Have cheat sheets. For players and the DM.
Players: on your turn you can do the following: Attack. Roll 1d20, then add blah.
DM: Monster stat blocks + an area to track hit points and conditions.
DM: A one-page sheet of conditions and page references. Where to go to find weapon damage. What's exhaustion, etc?
Players: Their "most used" info. Save DCs in big numbers. Temp HP in big numbers. Ranges on fireballs. Exactly what Mirror Image does.
At the table, are you using miniatures. Grids? Stop counting. Just ask, "What are you trying to do?" If the player says, "I'd like to engage the monster." Look at the miniature. You don't have to waste time counting 5ft. spaces and 1 inches. Visually, can the PC get close enough to the bad thing to swing at it. Make an instant ruling. If so, grab the mini, move them to touch the bad guy mini and say, "Roll." No need to bog down 10 seconds measuring.
For the DM, narrate what happened on the previous turn.
"Ok Jakari, last turn, your mage dropped. The monster stands over their fallen body, maybe preparing to crush them through death saves. You are standing on the cliff, you're bow is drawn. You have easy shots on the monster and 3 more goblins coming from behind the tree- that you saw last time. What do you want to do?"
That narration prompts action and decision and removes 30 seconds of asking questions.
Think of it like a recap before the session starts. If you don't recap at the start of a session, you'll jump right into story and description and players will bog down time asking questions like, "ok wait, so how did we get here again? I don't remember that NPC. Why are they important?"
Narrating previous turns recaps those turns. It provides a summary. Players need summaries to move forward efficiently.
For my tables, what takes the most time is people getting sidetracked and having side conversations while everything else is going on. For my groups, this is usually by mutual accord: we're comfortable with everything taking a lot longer if it means we can chill and make jokes. But we're all aware of it, and if we wanted to go faster, we'd address the problem by cutting the chatter.
For us, what takes the second most time is newbies trying to do things on their turn. This has two subfacets: 1) people who didn't spend everyone else's turn thinking about their own turn, so their turn happens and have to pause and think, and 2) people who've never bothered reading the rules trying to do things the rules don't remotely support. Only way to address those issues is practice.
Some folks really worry if they are making the optimal choice for their turn. This can lead analysis paralysis. I found being quick as a new caster to be difficult, but the reality is that people need to pay attention and have their plan ready to go.
As for rules, well, that can be tough. We are all new at my table, so rules questions came up a lot at first. We had to work through them because we didn't know the rules very well. But, I told them that we'd spend no more than 60 seconds on a rules issue before I make a decision. If I was wrong, we'd figure that out later so we could play with the rules as written. It's hardly an issue now.
Another popular option is to announce the player who's on deck. This can help them focus and plan their move.
I'm not sure if this is applicable to the OP's situation or not, but pretty much everyone at my table is neuroatypical in some fashion or another, which very frequently leads to us having to take more time than probably most people to figure out what we want to do on a turn. In our case, I've found that it helps a lot to call a break right before we have a combat or any sort of prolonged or intense segment, as well as whenever we finish them. That and as a DM, whenever I'm trying to look up things like a spell or condition, I find it immensely helpful to have one or two of my players look up the same thing as well.
One thing that immensely speeds up combat is encouraging people to actually pay attention to the combat and actually think about what their next action will be before it's their turn.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Combat can be a drag when it drags on and on and on.
To speed up combat rounds and simulate intense battles…
Approx 1 minute before each round to discuss tactics, then you are on your own… By on your own, I mean you alone will decide and talk about your actions.
All other players are to be attentive, preparing their next actions and not chipping in with advice, rules talk, etc during someone else’s turn.
Your default action is ‘Dodge.’
Think ahead and know what you want to do on your turn.
Say your turn is finished when you have finished.
I let everyone have a minute to chat at the start of each round to get all the tactical stuff out the way. During combat, if someone hasn't got their action ready, they're taking the dodge action. It's amazing how just a couple of instances of someone having to take the Dodge action really focusses them for future combat encounters!
There are always exceptions. Let's say that the PC wizard does something crazy in combat, just before the PC cleric's turn. If something like this happens, then giving the cleric a little longer to act is, of course, the fair thing to do.
These rules work on my table. Your mileage may vary!
Lots of good suggestions here, but what really, really sped up combat for us was respecting the speaking rules of 5e (RAW "You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn."), which means that you cannot communicate out of your turn (as a house rule, we allow to use your reaction to speak a sentence out of turn, to warn other characters of something that they just witnessed for example, but that has almost no impact, because it's just one sentence).
This avoids any lengthy tactical discussion of options, keeps it completely roleplay and avoids rules lawyering anyway (and players trying to influence whoever's turn it is, usually in their favor ans sparking debate).
And also, of course, Theater of the Mind. Honestly, you can do things in TotM that you can't do at all using maps, it's much more vivid and cinematic in players' minds (at east ours), and it's blindingly fast. The counterpart, of course, is that it is far less tactical, and I understand that some tables love this. We have out grown it at our tables, and honestly 5e is not suited to it, the grid rules are optional and underdeveloped and create issues, and these issues degenerate into rule-lawyering.
5e combat, as designed, is not meant to be technical and tactical. There are other game systems that focus on it, if that's what you are looking for. But again 5e is like a Ferrari, it's extremely fast if you use it as intended, but if you burden it with a lot of extra luggage, it will behave much worse than other systems and will end up being lengthy for all sorts of bad reasons, but not fault of its own.
Now i know why it's taking us so long. Its because we're using an online map, and our DM is using Google Draw, so its very slow to move our minis around
Sharing my advice and experience to give you ideas you my be able to get your group/DM to follow. Others have mentioned some of these in various ways above already.
Situation: I DM a group of seven players (all middle age and above), with six in the room and one on Zoom. Games are every other week and run for five hours per session. Obviously, combat can be quite slow at times with that many players.
Here's the things I'm doing currently, or have done, to move combat/planning along:
1. Ask the players... Request the players calculate their To Hit and To Damage totals for their most common methods of attack. Then write it down so they don't have to keep referencing their character sheet and calculating totals. It definitely helps!
2. Have a designated group leader... As a DM I insist that when it comes to group decisions only one person tells me what the groups final decision is. Trying to listen and mentally calculate everything everyone is telling at me, all at once, is just going to create more confusion and frustrate the shit out of me, which will drag the situation out longer.
3. The DM must exercise his judgement... My group has a tendency to over plan. It can really drag things out. The most frustrating part is when they do that for what is actually a simple encounter, but they have misread things, or believe they have to be extra careful for whatever reason. As the DM I will eventually step in and force the encounter (behind the scenes) to help move them along if its taking an excessive amount of time. Example - I remember them planning a rescue mission, including recon time, for nearly an hour and a half, just to avoid combat. I liked that. Was well planned out. But dear lord! I had to get up and stretch my legs while they were planning it. So, when the DM starts showing impatience, walking away from the table for a break, etc. while the group is planning, the group is probably way over thinking the situation. Caveat: If the group is having fun, regardless of how long it seems to be taking, then it should be allowed to continue. Could lead to a memorable game moment.
4. Average damage... I use the average damage amount referenced in the stat block for the enemy to help reduce time spent rolling. There are exceptions, but that's a general rule.
5. Automation... I have a spreadsheet that auto adjusts the initiative for everyone, including individual initiatives for the enemy. I prefer individual initiatives because depending on the order, as the enemy is taken out, players can adjust on the fly, change their strat, targets, etc. Feels more natural that way. The point is the spreadsheet semi automates things for me which cuts down on in-game time managing this stuff.
6. Encounter planning... I have all possible encounters mapped out in the spreadsheet prior to the game, along with any enemy stats that may be needed during combat. Every enemy is numbered so I can easily track which enemy is where on the table. Easy to reference it on the spreadsheet. This saves time as I don't have to look stuff up.
7. Efficient table mechanics... I upgraded to using a TV and Foundry VTT on the table to remove the whole problem of players (or myself) having to draw what they see. I can't begin to tell you how frustrating it can be trying to explain to a player (whose drawing on a vinyl map) what they see. That time sink is horrible. So, see if this kind of tech arrangement is an option for the DM to consider if the mapping problem is causing delays at the table.
8. Arbitrating decisions... I have one person designated as the rules lawyer who sits to my immediate right. Any concerns with a spell or ability get passed to that player and they can quickly resolve it. The person is an experienced 5e DM so its helpful. If I disagree with his position we table it until after the game, as long as the ruling does not have a significant, negative impact on the encounter or the players. If a player might die as a result of the call, then I will pause the game to nail down the ruling.
9. Communications is key... Before the game starts, I talk to the players when I know there is going to be a lot of combat during the gaming session. I reinforce the need to pay attention (not just on their turn), be ready to react, have their to-hit and to-dam ready, and think about what they might do on their turn... before its their turn!
Good luck!
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Husband, Father, Veteran, Gamer, DM, Player, and Friend | Author of the "World of Eirador" | http://world-guild.com "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." ~Gary Gygax
I also use a attack/initiative planner with a creatures initiative ( which is prerolled ) and what their going to do, example: Ogre ( initiative 12, attacks with greatclub, +6 to hit, 13 bludgeoning damage ), Goblin ( initiative 9, attacks with scimitar, +4 to hit, 5 slashing damage ), Orc ( initiative 5, attacks with greataxe, +5 to hit, 9 slashing damage ).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
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It was the first dungeon of LMoP, Cragmaw Hideout. I don't know if 3 sessions was acceptable, but it felt extremely long
Trying a timer and actually sticking to a timer are 2 different things.
Of course, your timer might be 90 seconds. That's too long
As some one has said, what's the focus of your game? If it's dungeon running and heavy combat, what's wrong with 3 sessions of it? Are you, other players, or the DM feeling bad that you aren't getting to other content? Is the content you aren't getting to as important to those that like fighting? Why get to the RP of it all if everyone at the table likes fighting more?
Something else is off. Usually it's not that you don't have a fix in place. It's that you aren't actually adhering to the fix and thinking you are.
Also, what are you comparing to? Veteran roleplayers online or via stream? Maybe you have very new players. Complex character- wizards with lots of spells vs. a berserker barbarian. Maybe your DM doesn't have a handle on the rules- conditions, cover, hiding, vision and light. Maybe your DM is juggling 7 monsters and has to flip through the monster manual between their turns.
Have cheat sheets. For players and the DM.
Players: on your turn you can do the following: Attack. Roll 1d20, then add blah.
DM: Monster stat blocks + an area to track hit points and conditions.
DM: A one-page sheet of conditions and page references. Where to go to find weapon damage. What's exhaustion, etc?
Players: Their "most used" info. Save DCs in big numbers. Temp HP in big numbers. Ranges on fireballs. Exactly what Mirror Image does.
At the table, are you using miniatures. Grids? Stop counting. Just ask, "What are you trying to do?" If the player says, "I'd like to engage the monster." Look at the miniature. You don't have to waste time counting 5ft. spaces and 1 inches. Visually, can the PC get close enough to the bad thing to swing at it. Make an instant ruling. If so, grab the mini, move them to touch the bad guy mini and say, "Roll." No need to bog down 10 seconds measuring.
For the DM, narrate what happened on the previous turn.
"Ok Jakari, last turn, your mage dropped. The monster stands over their fallen body, maybe preparing to crush them through death saves. You are standing on the cliff, you're bow is drawn. You have easy shots on the monster and 3 more goblins coming from behind the tree- that you saw last time. What do you want to do?"
That narration prompts action and decision and removes 30 seconds of asking questions.
Think of it like a recap before the session starts. If you don't recap at the start of a session, you'll jump right into story and description and players will bog down time asking questions like, "ok wait, so how did we get here again? I don't remember that NPC. Why are they important?"
Narrating previous turns recaps those turns. It provides a summary. Players need summaries to move forward efficiently.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
For my tables, what takes the most time is people getting sidetracked and having side conversations while everything else is going on. For my groups, this is usually by mutual accord: we're comfortable with everything taking a lot longer if it means we can chill and make jokes. But we're all aware of it, and if we wanted to go faster, we'd address the problem by cutting the chatter.
For us, what takes the second most time is newbies trying to do things on their turn. This has two subfacets: 1) people who didn't spend everyone else's turn thinking about their own turn, so their turn happens and have to pause and think, and 2) people who've never bothered reading the rules trying to do things the rules don't remotely support. Only way to address those issues is practice.
Some folks really worry if they are making the optimal choice for their turn. This can lead analysis paralysis. I found being quick as a new caster to be difficult, but the reality is that people need to pay attention and have their plan ready to go.
As for rules, well, that can be tough. We are all new at my table, so rules questions came up a lot at first. We had to work through them because we didn't know the rules very well. But, I told them that we'd spend no more than 60 seconds on a rules issue before I make a decision. If I was wrong, we'd figure that out later so we could play with the rules as written. It's hardly an issue now.
Another popular option is to announce the player who's on deck. This can help them focus and plan their move.
Good luck!
I'm not sure if this is applicable to the OP's situation or not, but pretty much everyone at my table is neuroatypical in some fashion or another, which very frequently leads to us having to take more time than probably most people to figure out what we want to do on a turn. In our case, I've found that it helps a lot to call a break right before we have a combat or any sort of prolonged or intense segment, as well as whenever we finish them. That and as a DM, whenever I'm trying to look up things like a spell or condition, I find it immensely helpful to have one or two of my players look up the same thing as well.
One thing that immensely speeds up combat is encouraging people to actually pay attention to the combat and actually think about what their next action will be before it's their turn.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Here's a little blurb from my Session Zero notes:
Combat
Combat can be a drag when it drags on and on and on.
To speed up combat rounds and simulate intense battles…
I let everyone have a minute to chat at the start of each round to get all the tactical stuff out the way. During combat, if someone hasn't got their action ready, they're taking the dodge action. It's amazing how just a couple of instances of someone having to take the Dodge action really focusses them for future combat encounters!
There are always exceptions. Let's say that the PC wizard does something crazy in combat, just before the PC cleric's turn. If something like this happens, then giving the cleric a little longer to act is, of course, the fair thing to do.
These rules work on my table. Your mileage may vary!
Now i know why it's taking us so long. Its because we're using an online map, and our DM is using Google Draw, so its very slow to move our minis around
Sharing my advice and experience to give you ideas you my be able to get your group/DM to follow. Others have mentioned some of these in various ways above already.
Situation: I DM a group of seven players (all middle age and above), with six in the room and one on Zoom. Games are every other week and run for five hours per session. Obviously, combat can be quite slow at times with that many players.
Here's the things I'm doing currently, or have done, to move combat/planning along:
1. Ask the players... Request the players calculate their To Hit and To Damage totals for their most common methods of attack. Then write it down so they don't have to keep referencing their character sheet and calculating totals. It definitely helps!
2. Have a designated group leader... As a DM I insist that when it comes to group decisions only one person tells me what the groups final decision is. Trying to listen and mentally calculate everything everyone is telling at me, all at once, is just going to create more confusion and frustrate the shit out of me, which will drag the situation out longer.
3. The DM must exercise his judgement... My group has a tendency to over plan. It can really drag things out. The most frustrating part is when they do that for what is actually a simple encounter, but they have misread things, or believe they have to be extra careful for whatever reason. As the DM I will eventually step in and force the encounter (behind the scenes) to help move them along if its taking an excessive amount of time. Example - I remember them planning a rescue mission, including recon time, for nearly an hour and a half, just to avoid combat. I liked that. Was well planned out. But dear lord! I had to get up and stretch my legs while they were planning it. So, when the DM starts showing impatience, walking away from the table for a break, etc. while the group is planning, the group is probably way over thinking the situation. Caveat: If the group is having fun, regardless of how long it seems to be taking, then it should be allowed to continue. Could lead to a memorable game moment.
4. Average damage... I use the average damage amount referenced in the stat block for the enemy to help reduce time spent rolling. There are exceptions, but that's a general rule.
5. Automation... I have a spreadsheet that auto adjusts the initiative for everyone, including individual initiatives for the enemy. I prefer individual initiatives because depending on the order, as the enemy is taken out, players can adjust on the fly, change their strat, targets, etc. Feels more natural that way. The point is the spreadsheet semi automates things for me which cuts down on in-game time managing this stuff.
6. Encounter planning... I have all possible encounters mapped out in the spreadsheet prior to the game, along with any enemy stats that may be needed during combat. Every enemy is numbered so I can easily track which enemy is where on the table. Easy to reference it on the spreadsheet. This saves time as I don't have to look stuff up.
7. Efficient table mechanics... I upgraded to using a TV and Foundry VTT on the table to remove the whole problem of players (or myself) having to draw what they see. I can't begin to tell you how frustrating it can be trying to explain to a player (whose drawing on a vinyl map) what they see. That time sink is horrible. So, see if this kind of tech arrangement is an option for the DM to consider if the mapping problem is causing delays at the table.
8. Arbitrating decisions... I have one person designated as the rules lawyer who sits to my immediate right. Any concerns with a spell or ability get passed to that player and they can quickly resolve it. The person is an experienced 5e DM so its helpful. If I disagree with his position we table it until after the game, as long as the ruling does not have a significant, negative impact on the encounter or the players. If a player might die as a result of the call, then I will pause the game to nail down the ruling.
9. Communications is key... Before the game starts, I talk to the players when I know there is going to be a lot of combat during the gaming session. I reinforce the need to pay attention (not just on their turn), be ready to react, have their to-hit and to-dam ready, and think about what they might do on their turn... before its their turn!
Good luck!
Husband, Father, Veteran, Gamer, DM, Player, and Friend | Author of the "World of Eirador" | http://world-guild.com
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." ~Gary Gygax
I also use a attack/initiative planner with a creatures initiative ( which is prerolled ) and what their going to do, example: Ogre ( initiative 12, attacks with greatclub, +6 to hit, 13 bludgeoning damage ), Goblin ( initiative 9, attacks with scimitar, +4 to hit, 5 slashing damage ), Orc ( initiative 5, attacks with greataxe, +5 to hit, 9 slashing damage ).
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.