One of my players recently bought the Helm of Telepathy. In the item description, it says that you can cast Detect Thoughts with a spell save DC of 13. But in the description of Detect Thoughts, I can't tell if the save DC is applicable to the last two paragraphs (explaining that you can use the spell to detect the presence of thinking creatures you can't see). Do those creatures also get to roll for the save?
No, the spell description would say so explicitly if that was the case.
The only part for which the Wis save is relevant is "If you probe deeper, the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. If it fails, you gain insight into its reasoning (if any), its emotional state, and something that looms large in its mind (such as something it worries over, loves, or hates). If it succeeds, the spell ends".
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Normally I'd agree with that completely, but the reason I'm confused is because using the Helm of Telepathy it states the save DC in the beginning of the spell as well as in the sentence about Suggestion:
While wearing this helm, you can use an action to cast the detect thoughts spell (save DC 13) from it. As long as you maintain concentration on the spell, you can use a bonus action to send a telepathic message to a creature you are focused on. It can reply--using a bonus action to do so--while your focus on it continues.
While focusing on a creature with detect thoughts, you can use an action to cast the suggestion spell (save DC 13) from the helm on that creature. Once used, the suggestion property can't be used again until the next dawn.
Detect thoughts has a sort of "passive" sense that just picks up the existence of thought and sort of a surface empathy to it. The save is if you focus on a subject's particular thoughts and do that deeper read. The telepathic message bonus action is just the message cantrip baked in and allowed as a bonus action. Suggestion is a similar action like the deeper detection, but it's a reverse, instead of reading the wearer is imposing. So there are things you can do with the helm pretty with little direct focus. It's the direct focus acts that require the DCs from your subject.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Normally I'd agree with that completely, but the reason I'm confused is because using the Helm of Telepathy it states the save DC in the beginning of the spell as well as in the sentence about Suggestion:
While wearing this helm, you can use an action to cast the detect thoughts spell (save DC 13) from it. As long as you maintain concentration on the spell, you can use a bonus action to send a telepathic message to a creature you are focused on. It can reply--using a bonus action to do so--while your focus on it continues.
While focusing on a creature with detect thoughts, you can use an action to cast the suggestion spell (save DC 13) from the helm on that creature. Once used, the suggestion property can't be used again until the next dawn.
The Helm has to state the DC, because there's no caster to take a stat modifier from - the Helm determines the DC. That goes for both spells, of course. But otherwise the spells work exactly as written. If the save part only applies to the 'deeper probe' when a mage casts Detect Thoughts using a spell slot, it also only applies when the wearer of the Helm uses it to cast the exact same spell.
One of my players recently bought the Helm of Telepathy. In the item description, it says that you can cast Detect Thoughts with a spell save DC of 13. But in the description of Detect Thoughts, I can't tell if the save DC is applicable to the last two paragraphs (explaining that you can use the spell to detect the presence of thinking creatures you can't see). Do those creatures also get to roll for the save?
No, the spell description would say so explicitly if that was the case.
The only part for which the Wis save is relevant is "If you probe deeper, the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. If it fails, you gain insight into its reasoning (if any), its emotional state, and something that looms large in its mind (such as something it worries over, loves, or hates). If it succeeds, the spell ends".
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Normally I'd agree with that completely, but the reason I'm confused is because using the Helm of Telepathy it states the save DC in the beginning of the spell as well as in the sentence about Suggestion:
Detect thoughts has a sort of "passive" sense that just picks up the existence of thought and sort of a surface empathy to it. The save is if you focus on a subject's particular thoughts and do that deeper read. The telepathic message bonus action is just the message cantrip baked in and allowed as a bonus action. Suggestion is a similar action like the deeper detection, but it's a reverse, instead of reading the wearer is imposing. So there are things you can do with the helm pretty with little direct focus. It's the direct focus acts that require the DCs from your subject.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The Helm has to state the DC, because there's no caster to take a stat modifier from - the Helm determines the DC. That goes for both spells, of course. But otherwise the spells work exactly as written. If the save part only applies to the 'deeper probe' when a mage casts Detect Thoughts using a spell slot, it also only applies when the wearer of the Helm uses it to cast the exact same spell.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].