The easy way to get out of a drow's light sensitivity is don't be a drow. Drow have significant statistical advantages over other playable races in general, which is why in earlier editions they had a +1 level adjustment (for all mechanical rules purposes, including calculating "fair" encounters and experience from them they are considered to have an extra character level). They were statistically acknowledged to be a mechanically overpowered race. 5e rules keeps more or less all of those advantages but doesn't use level adjustments, so the light sensitivity has a more detrimental effect (in 3.5 they'd by blinded for one round in bright light then take a -1 penalty to attack rolls and sight based checks afterwards, which isn't as bad as disadvantage). Yes, the disadvantage is a big thing, but it balances out a bunch of other big things.
Personally, I think if somebody wants to be yet another edgy cool rebel/outcast*coughDRIZZTKNOCKOFFcough* then they have to actually take the race as is. If they want to play a surface elf, they can play a surface elf.
Edit: This isn't to say they can't seek out a magic item or such to negate the effect, but a DM should make them work/pay for it just like anything else so it means they get their magic sunglasses instead of a magic sword or whatnot. Yes, mundane sunglasses could make "real world" sense, but this isn't the real world and applying real world logic to anything in D&D is just asking for an artificer to make rubber suits for everybody and lightning grenades or some crap. It's a balance issue and should be treated as such, they're magically sensitive to light whether it's being seen by their eyes or causing a systemic allergic reaction from skin exposure or whatnot. Mystically based intrinsic impairment needs an appropriate countermeasure, such as something that would normally grant advantage on all attacks and perception checks under a common circumstance and that's going to be expensive.
Yes, the disadvantage is a big thing, but it balances out a bunch of other big things.
I'm all for keeping drow mechanically distinct with sunlight sensitivity, but the balance argument is a bit silly. In most campaigns drow are flat out mechanically inferior to just about any other race; in campaigns where sunlight sensitivity is a non-issue they're easily one of the better races. In order for them to be considered fair, the DM pretty much has to do a balancing act using lighting conditions and anything that takes significant work from the DM to be balanced isn't really balanced in my book (I know lots of game aspects require a hands-on approach to balance from the DM, but not like this).
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I created an item for one of my players, called it "Mask of the Redeemed" He is a Kobold, so snuffing the sensitivity wasn't too unbalancing, as his other racials aren't too out of line with other characters. In the case of a Drow, the mask would eliminate the sunlight sensitivity and limit their darkvision to 60' like the other races. I think if I was DM, I might also scrub the ability to cast Darkness, simply because the Dark Elf magic would fail over time with ongoing exposure to sunlight.
As everyone else here has said, though, the most reasonable solution is a non-Drow elf race, skinned with black and with white hair. As many have pointed out, there's a fair bit of jiggling abilities and stuff to keep it all in balance, just to allow someone to wear the skin they want.
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In 3.5 and earlier editions the Drow were a foe for high level characters and as such fairly over powering for low or beginning characters- mostly because of they had a 50%+ magic immunity as well as I ate spell casting. The 5e Drow doesn’t have this resistance and while it’s innate spell casting is superior to other elves using the racial feats if you disallow the Drow racial ability the casting abilities fall pretty much in line with other elves. So yes the simplest way to deal with the sunlight sensitivity is by DM fiat that Drow raised on the surface no longer have the sensitivity but that they can also no longer take the Drow racial feat. The lore we have on Drow is almost exclusively from the forgotten realms where their magic resistance and innate spell casting abilities were a response to the underdark’s Fazress magic. The original dark elves before the descent didn’t have those abilities or the sunlight sensitivity. Other responses here were trying to show how to implement that fiat in RAW and homebrew) that could be given as alternate ways. I was describing an lore way to get much the same final effect. The OP is free to use any or all of the suggestions.
Yes, the disadvantage is a big thing, but it balances out a bunch of other big things.
I'm all for keeping drow mechanically distinct with sunlight sensitivity, but the balance argument is a bit silly. In most campaigns drow are flat out mechanically inferior to just about any other race; in campaigns where sunlight sensitivity is a non-issue they're easily one of the better races. In order for them to be considered fair, the DM pretty much has to do a balancing act using lighting conditions and anything that takes significant work from the DM to be balanced isn't really balanced in my book (I know lots of game aspects require a hands-on approach to balance from the DM, but not like this).
Exactly. It may be a balancing thing but from a DM perspective it is just a mess.
It is vastly simpler from the DM's perspective to either tell the player "the char's stat bloc is what it says it is", or ban the sub-race entirely. This concept of "ruining the player's fun", where there are literally dozens and dozens of races and sub-races in the game for a player to choose from, is just silly. Why should the DM make all that extra work for themselves?
It's vastly simpler from the DM's perspective to ignore character strengths and weaknesses and just create a campaign balanced around some not existing average power level, is what this translates to if I'm being a bit cynical. Let the players make their bed and lie in it, no matter where the chips may fall.
I actually ran a drow wizard in that module (Out of the Abyss) and the only real advantage it gave was the extended range on darkvision. Which was nice but hardly overpowered.
The module also has a fair number of creatures that use poison. Would you ban dwarven characters because that gives them too much of an advantage?
@Kotath: Yes. Because the DM makes all calls on the world and the campaign.
@pangurjan: Also yes. The DM has a difficult enough job already, at least if they're trying to do a good job. A lot of time the DM will come up with at least the broad strokes of the campaign they're going to run well before they have any idea what races and classes the characters are going to choose. Some elements, particularly specific encounters, can be adjusted later to better fit the party, but if the entire adventure is set above ground and is going to take place mainly during the day then the DM can warn the local Drizzt fan club about that and they can deal with the light sensitivity. If a PC with a fly speed will force them to redesign everything to remain a challenge they can just say "No aaracokra."
Drows can get overpowered... but so can all races let's be honest. If anything just tell the player something like "I understand you have this backstory in mind and you want to get over the perception disadvantage. Maybe go for a ranger, cleric, or druid because they focus on wisdom and perception is in relationship to wisdom." Or they could spec into wisdom while still being any class they desire. This is my last idea (right now st least) I can even think because besides the other subrace bs I made there is no way to not make drow op if sunlight sensitivity is taken away.
@pangurjan: Also yes. The DM has a difficult enough job already, at least if they're trying to do a good job. A lot of time the DM will come up with at least the broad strokes of the campaign they're going to run well before they have any idea what races and classes the characters are going to choose. Some elements, particularly specific encounters, can be adjusted later to better fit the party, but if the entire adventure is set above ground and is going to take place mainly during the day then the DM can warn the local Drizzt fan club about that and they can deal with the light sensitivity. If a PC with a fly speed will force them to redesign everything to remain a challenge they can just say "No aaracokra."
I have no problem at all with DMs having different priorities, there’s a ton of stuff any DM can choose to spend more or less time and effort on, but for me working with the characters I get ranks pretty high up there. Maybe even all the way up at number 1, all things considered. Some players powergame quite heavily, some not at all, up to me to reconcile that. A lot of players pick a sort of go-to approach for their char, specialize in something, I feel like I have to validate that. Some players are really disappointed if I don’t do something with their character’s story, I don’t want that to happen (and those players are usually very grateful, so it’s worth it). I just feel that if I’m working with the less optimized characters in order to let them shine equally, I can work with drow or kobold characters and throw them a bone for the sunlight sensitivity. And if I can deal with the sorlocks and padlocks and moon druids (possibly raging) and whatnot, I can deal with characters with innate flight. These issues aren’t truly different from a bunch of others I’ll be dealing with, so why arbitrarily say no to this and that when I’m accepting a whole lot of other stuff? Peace clerics can sod off, I’ll cop to that, but most other things I try to take in stride.
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It’s not but it’s close. I just spent several hours seeing for myself if the Drow were overpowered. I built a L1fighter for each race (Drow, eladrin, high elf, wood elf and half elf) - same stats, equipment, skills etc. only differences came from the Drow abilities and the elven racial abilities and feats. That caused each race to have slightly different stats and different spell abilities as a fighter:
1/2 Elf: no spells but extra skills from prodigy racial feat. Eladrin: detect magic 1/LR, misty step 2/LR High Elf: cantrip (I put in chill touch) at will, misty step 1/LR Wood Elf: cantrip ( I put in Shillelagh) at will, longstrider 1/LR, pass w/o trace 1/LR drow: dancing lights, detect magic at will, levitate, dispel magic 1/LR each, darkvision 120’
frankly I can’t see that Drow are so much better any more that something that nerfs them like the sunlight sensitivity can’t be dumped by DM fiat in a situation like this. in 1-3.xe Drow we’re overpowering to low level characters. At least as PCs, or NPCS they aren’t anymore so we may need to adjust our take on them. I can see leaving the sensitivity for Drow that have not adapted to the surface but one that has grown up on the surface shouldn’t have it. And taking it away is not unbalancing.
When a player asks if their Drow character can be born and raised on the surface world, I'm perfectly happy to help them with their character concept. No more sunlight sensitivity, no more superior darkvison, it goes back to the normal kind, no more Drow High Magic. That's simple enough.
The other way is to give all my player character something similar. Then I have to go through each player character and figure what to add. That's going to take some time. Not so bad with Elves, but for the other races? Ai-yi-yi. No thanks, I'll go ahead with the first option.
Not saying you shouldn’t, the Drow high magic does give them extra spells.but the real problem probably isn’t the Drow high magic it gives detect magic at will and levitate and dispel magic 1/long rest. I suspect the overpowering feature is the regular Drow magic from the PHB: dancing lights at will at L1, faerie fire 1/LR at L3 and darkness 1/LR at L5. Yow might want to take away the Drow magic feature and leave them the Drow high magic.
Drow high magic is a feat, and one I've never known to be considered as more than average. I frankly don't see why it's even a factor in this discussion.
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Drow high magic is a feat, and one I've never known to be considered as more than average. I frankly don't see why it's even a factor in this discussion.
Detect Magic at will sounds really cool and powerful.. if one is the type of DM who likes placing magic items for the PC's to not find and considers that some sort of challenge or in joke to themselves.
In most cases it is something that can be used to help move the plot along.
It's certainly useful, but in the context of giving up another feat or an ASI for it I think it's hard to argue this is pushing drow towards being overpowered.
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The questions were really if you do away with the sunlight sensitivity is the Drow overpowered compared to other (elven) races, and if so what do you take away from them to make them balanced. We all have this feeling that Drow are overpowered but that proves to be a hangover from 3.5 and earlier. That is why I spent hours building characters to see if my prejudices were real. I found that they aren’t - Drow are not OP anymore, if anything the sunlight sensitivity actually nerfs them badly in sunlight and leaves them on equal footing at night and underground. I maybe didn’t make my view clear:
a surface raised Drow shouldn’t have the sunlight sensitivity, Drow raised and living below the surface should. If you absolutely have to take something away from them to feel comfortable doing this take the Drow magic from the PHB and give them the Drow high magic racial feat.
Drow high magic is a feat, and one I've never known to be considered as more than average. I frankly don't see why it's even a factor in this discussion.
Detect Magic at will sounds really cool and powerful.. if one is the type of DM who likes placing magic items for the PC's to not find and considers that some sort of challenge or in joke to themselves.
In most cases it is something that can be used to help move the plot along.
It's certainly useful, but in the context of giving up another feat or an ASI for it I think it's hard to argue this is pushing drow towards being overpowered.
Especially given that warlocks can get Detect Magic at will as an invocation, which is a far lower investment than a feat.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
In my games, the Variant Eldaran from the DMG are the race that first migrated from the Feywild into the mortal world. They renounced their immortality so they could stay. If a Drow wants to get rid of their sensitivity to sunlight, that's fine. They turn into an Eldaran. All a player character need to do, rather than what an npc gets, is they need to use a feat to get Fey Step.
They do need to be a little careful though. Corellon is where the curse of Sunlight Sensitivity originally came from. They might want to worship him, or he could do something terrible, like stick them in the middle of Menzoberranzan, in the Forgotten Realms. The Drow there don't like the any sort of Elf much, and Corellon has a sense of humor. He'd probably turn them into a male if they weren't one already.
They do need to be a little careful though. Corellon is where the curse of Sunlight Sensitivity originally came from. They might want to worship him, or he could do something terrible, like stick them in the middle of Menzoberranzan, in the Forgotten Realms. The Drow there don't like the any sort of Elf much, and Corellon has a sense of humor. He'd probably turn them into a male if they weren't one already.
I'm not sure making veiled threats is a great approach, but each DM has their own style and that's fine.
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The easy way to get out of a drow's light sensitivity is don't be a drow. Drow have significant statistical advantages over other playable races in general, which is why in earlier editions they had a +1 level adjustment (for all mechanical rules purposes, including calculating "fair" encounters and experience from them they are considered to have an extra character level). They were statistically acknowledged to be a mechanically overpowered race. 5e rules keeps more or less all of those advantages but doesn't use level adjustments, so the light sensitivity has a more detrimental effect (in 3.5 they'd by blinded for one round in bright light then take a -1 penalty to attack rolls and sight based checks afterwards, which isn't as bad as disadvantage). Yes, the disadvantage is a big thing, but it balances out a bunch of other big things.
Personally, I think if somebody wants to be yet another edgy cool rebel/outcast*coughDRIZZTKNOCKOFFcough* then they have to actually take the race as is. If they want to play a surface elf, they can play a surface elf.
Edit: This isn't to say they can't seek out a magic item or such to negate the effect, but a DM should make them work/pay for it just like anything else so it means they get their magic sunglasses instead of a magic sword or whatnot. Yes, mundane sunglasses could make "real world" sense, but this isn't the real world and applying real world logic to anything in D&D is just asking for an artificer to make rubber suits for everybody and lightning grenades or some crap. It's a balance issue and should be treated as such, they're magically sensitive to light whether it's being seen by their eyes or causing a systemic allergic reaction from skin exposure or whatnot. Mystically based intrinsic impairment needs an appropriate countermeasure, such as something that would normally grant advantage on all attacks and perception checks under a common circumstance and that's going to be expensive.
I'm all for keeping drow mechanically distinct with sunlight sensitivity, but the balance argument is a bit silly. In most campaigns drow are flat out mechanically inferior to just about any other race; in campaigns where sunlight sensitivity is a non-issue they're easily one of the better races. In order for them to be considered fair, the DM pretty much has to do a balancing act using lighting conditions and anything that takes significant work from the DM to be balanced isn't really balanced in my book (I know lots of game aspects require a hands-on approach to balance from the DM, but not like this).
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I created an item for one of my players, called it "Mask of the Redeemed" He is a Kobold, so snuffing the sensitivity wasn't too unbalancing, as his other racials aren't too out of line with other characters. In the case of a Drow, the mask would eliminate the sunlight sensitivity and limit their darkvision to 60' like the other races. I think if I was DM, I might also scrub the ability to cast Darkness, simply because the Dark Elf magic would fail over time with ongoing exposure to sunlight.
As everyone else here has said, though, the most reasonable solution is a non-Drow elf race, skinned with black and with white hair. As many have pointed out, there's a fair bit of jiggling abilities and stuff to keep it all in balance, just to allow someone to wear the skin they want.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
In 3.5 and earlier editions the Drow were a foe for high level characters and as such fairly over powering for low or beginning characters- mostly because of they had a 50%+ magic immunity as well as I ate spell casting. The 5e Drow doesn’t have this resistance and while it’s innate spell casting is superior to other elves using the racial feats if you disallow the Drow racial ability the casting abilities fall pretty much in line with other elves. So yes the simplest way to deal with the sunlight sensitivity is by DM fiat that Drow raised on the surface no longer have the sensitivity but that they can also no longer take the Drow racial feat. The lore we have on Drow is almost exclusively from the forgotten realms where their magic resistance and innate spell casting abilities were a response to the underdark’s Fazress magic. The original dark elves before the descent didn’t have those abilities or the sunlight sensitivity. Other responses here were trying to show how to implement that fiat in RAW and homebrew) that could be given as alternate ways. I was describing an lore way to get much the same final effect. The OP is free to use any or all of the suggestions.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It's vastly simpler from the DM's perspective to ignore character strengths and weaknesses and just create a campaign balanced around some not existing average power level, is what this translates to if I'm being a bit cynical. Let the players make their bed and lie in it, no matter where the chips may fall.
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I actually ran a drow wizard in that module (Out of the Abyss) and the only real advantage it gave was the extended range on darkvision. Which was nice but hardly overpowered.
The module also has a fair number of creatures that use poison. Would you ban dwarven characters because that gives them too much of an advantage?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Without multiquoting a dozen or so nested boxes:
@Kotath: Yes. Because the DM makes all calls on the world and the campaign.
@pangurjan: Also yes. The DM has a difficult enough job already, at least if they're trying to do a good job. A lot of time the DM will come up with at least the broad strokes of the campaign they're going to run well before they have any idea what races and classes the characters are going to choose. Some elements, particularly specific encounters, can be adjusted later to better fit the party, but if the entire adventure is set above ground and is going to take place mainly during the day then the DM can warn the local Drizzt fan club about that and they can deal with the light sensitivity. If a PC with a fly speed will force them to redesign everything to remain a challenge they can just say "No aaracokra."
Drows can get overpowered... but so can all races let's be honest. If anything just tell the player something like "I understand you have this backstory in mind and you want to get over the perception disadvantage. Maybe go for a ranger, cleric, or druid because they focus on wisdom and perception is in relationship to wisdom." Or they could spec into wisdom while still being any class they desire. This is my last idea (right now st least) I can even think because besides the other subrace bs I made there is no way to not make drow op if sunlight sensitivity is taken away.
I have no problem at all with DMs having different priorities, there’s a ton of stuff any DM can choose to spend more or less time and effort on, but for me working with the characters I get ranks pretty high up there. Maybe even all the way up at number 1, all things considered. Some players powergame quite heavily, some not at all, up to me to reconcile that. A lot of players pick a sort of go-to approach for their char, specialize in something, I feel like I have to validate that. Some players are really disappointed if I don’t do something with their character’s story, I don’t want that to happen (and those players are usually very grateful, so it’s worth it). I just feel that if I’m working with the less optimized characters in order to let them shine equally, I can work with drow or kobold characters and throw them a bone for the sunlight sensitivity. And if I can deal with the sorlocks and padlocks and moon druids (possibly raging) and whatnot, I can deal with characters with innate flight. These issues aren’t truly different from a bunch of others I’ll be dealing with, so why arbitrarily say no to this and that when I’m accepting a whole lot of other stuff? Peace clerics can sod off, I’ll cop to that, but most other things I try to take in stride.
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Meh. Regular half-elf is IMO still better than drow sans sunlight sensitivity. Couple of others are up there too.
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It’s not but it’s close. I just spent several hours seeing for myself if the Drow were overpowered. I built a L1fighter for each race (Drow, eladrin, high elf, wood elf and half elf) - same stats, equipment, skills etc. only differences came from the Drow abilities and the elven racial abilities and feats. That caused each race to have slightly different stats and different spell abilities as a fighter:
1/2 Elf: no spells but extra skills from prodigy racial feat.
Eladrin: detect magic 1/LR, misty step 2/LR
High Elf: cantrip (I put in chill touch) at will, misty step 1/LR
Wood Elf: cantrip ( I put in Shillelagh) at will, longstrider 1/LR, pass w/o trace 1/LR
drow: dancing lights, detect magic at will, levitate, dispel magic 1/LR each, darkvision 120’
frankly I can’t see that Drow are so much better any more that something that nerfs them like the sunlight sensitivity can’t be dumped by DM fiat in a situation like this.
in 1-3.xe Drow we’re overpowering to low level characters. At least as PCs, or NPCS they aren’t anymore so we may need to adjust our take on them. I can see leaving the sensitivity for Drow that have not adapted to the surface but one that has grown up on the surface shouldn’t have it. And taking it away is not unbalancing.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
When a player asks if their Drow character can be born and raised on the surface world, I'm perfectly happy to help them with their character concept. No more sunlight sensitivity, no more superior darkvison, it goes back to the normal kind, no more Drow High Magic. That's simple enough.
The other way is to give all my player character something similar. Then I have to go through each player character and figure what to add. That's going to take some time. Not so bad with Elves, but for the other races? Ai-yi-yi. No thanks, I'll go ahead with the first option.
<Insert clever signature here>
Not saying you shouldn’t, the Drow high magic does give them extra spells.but the real problem probably isn’t the Drow high magic it gives detect magic at will and levitate and dispel magic 1/long rest. I suspect the overpowering feature is the regular Drow magic from the PHB: dancing lights at will at L1, faerie fire 1/LR at L3 and darkness 1/LR at L5. Yow might want to take away the Drow magic feature and leave them the Drow high magic.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
There isn't one. Racial spellcasting is nice but not nearly as powerful as it's made out to be since they're inflexible.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Drow high magic is a feat, and one I've never known to be considered as more than average. I frankly don't see why it's even a factor in this discussion.
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It's certainly useful, but in the context of giving up another feat or an ASI for it I think it's hard to argue this is pushing drow towards being overpowered.
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The questions were really if you do away with the sunlight sensitivity is the Drow overpowered compared to other (elven) races, and if so what do you take away from them to make them balanced. We all have this feeling that Drow are overpowered but that proves to be a hangover from 3.5 and earlier. That is why I spent hours building characters to see if my prejudices were real. I found that they aren’t - Drow are not OP anymore, if anything the sunlight sensitivity actually nerfs them badly in sunlight and leaves them on equal footing at night and underground. I maybe didn’t make my view clear:
a surface raised Drow shouldn’t have the sunlight sensitivity, Drow raised and living below the surface should. If you absolutely have to take something away from them to feel comfortable doing this take the Drow magic from the PHB and give them the Drow high magic racial feat.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Especially given that warlocks can get Detect Magic at will as an invocation, which is a far lower investment than a feat.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
In my games, the Variant Eldaran from the DMG are the race that first migrated from the Feywild into the mortal world. They renounced their immortality so they could stay. If a Drow wants to get rid of their sensitivity to sunlight, that's fine. They turn into an Eldaran. All a player character need to do, rather than what an npc gets, is they need to use a feat to get Fey Step.
They do need to be a little careful though. Corellon is where the curse of Sunlight Sensitivity originally came from. They might want to worship him, or he could do something terrible, like stick them in the middle of Menzoberranzan, in the Forgotten Realms. The Drow there don't like the any sort of Elf much, and Corellon has a sense of humor. He'd probably turn them into a male if they weren't one already.
<Insert clever signature here>
I'm not sure making veiled threats is a great approach, but each DM has their own style and that's fine.
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