Just wanted to mention that one of the main ideas that was pushed around by Wotc when 5th edition first came out was the fact that magic items were supposed to be rare and that classes were made around this. It's supposed to be more about the class and less about the items.
Yes, that's all well and good. So the Monk in our party has a +2d6 Shocking Short Sword AND the Shard of Light. Rogue has a Fiery Whip of Haste. Barbarian has a Morningstar of Disruption AND a Mace of Wounding. Paladin has a Sunblade AND a Cloak of Displacement & is Attuned to Huma's Dragonlance. Sorcerer has an artifact level Staff of Bones and a Wand of the War Mage +2.
I have Bracers of Archery (an Uncommon), Boots of Flying (which I got with character creation) and what is basically a Cloak of Protection. If every player was limited in what magic items they have, it'd be fine. Instead, my archer has Uncommons. The other players have rare or even legendary items.
This is my point, this is the summation of this post. Other players have epic/legendary/sentient magic items...and I can't get Studded Leather +1.
Lets put it this way, the worse a player plays....the more magic items they get. If a player plays well, they don't get magic items.
Lets put it another way. There's a huge boss encounter, you do the most damage and are a deciding factor for the encounter. Tanks do their job, grabbing loose mobs and doing their job, healers do an awesome job of keeping everyone up. So everyone did their job, yes? Job won, everyone gets a reward.
According to how you described your build, the bracers sound very useful to you, even strangely, assisting your DPS, no? Or did you start building it to match the bracers to further maximize?
If you're gauging a player "playing well" based solely upon their damage output or ability to min/max to success during combat, maybe your idea of an RPG simply conflicts with what your group's concept of an RPG is, and you should find a group that is solely devoted to combat, or at least more heavily than this one.
When I first started reading your posts I honestly was wondering what problem the DM had with you, and now I'm wondering if it isn't that you seem to have a strange obsession with your own play style, that you make yourself the most important player in the group because of your min/maxing skills. You literally equated your team mates (ALLIES) to bad players because they don't do the same amount of damage (more than once).
You also said if he continues treating you this way it'll "force" you to further maximize. Was that what "forced" you to do so from the start, or is it just something you enjoy primarily?
Have you tried discussing any of this with the other players to see if they too think it's strange and unfair? Also, how have you guys made it to level 15 without this coming up previously?
I know you've been following this thread for a while AaronOfBarbaria.
Did you miss the party where I asked if buying magic items for other players would be possible? Denied.
I must have missed you mentioning asking to buy stuff for other players... however, that's not actually answering what I just asked you. The DM could easily have been saying "no" to you asking to buy stuff for other players because they thought you meant you were going to buy them combat-potency-enhancing items since you seem to be primarily focused on combat performance.
So the question still stands: have you explicitly asked for items that don't compliment your already potent build?
My thought on this is to steal as much gold from the party as I can so when the DM says, "Yes, the shop in town found what you want but it'll be 26K gold! Muahahahaha!". I'll just reply, "K, I have that. Give me the Studded Leather +1."
I don't know if you are self aware of this or not, but when your response to not initially getting your way is to think of a way to "trick" someone into you getting your way, it makes it seem even more likely that you are being denied your way with good reason.
Either way, I'll just offer the advice that you not take what is already obviously an issue and intentionally make the situation worse by behaving in a petty way.
@AaronofBarbaria
I was reading this thread tonight and I, for one, wanted to say that I do agree with you and felt that you were making good points as well as asking good questions of the OP.
Like most others have said, without information from the other players as well as the DM.... then all we really have is a rant.
From an outside perspective (not saying it's correct)..... but it appears, at least from what I read.... that the OP is a bit of a powergamer with a sort of "video game" approach to how a D&D game is supposed to be. He seems overly concerned with raw numbers and this may effect how the other players feel or how the DM wants his game to be. Now... the DM should have nipped this thing in the bud early on. As the game went on, maybe he felt it was too late and that the only way to balance it was to give out magic items to the other players... I don't know what his motivation would be for this.
Other than these 1-sided conversations we are being told... have you actually had a more detailed conversation with what is going on? I bet if he posted, he would have a different story to tell......
All the epic/legendary magic items other players have were given to them before I joined the party. When I joined, was allowed to pick one Uncommon (Boots of Flying). At level 15, another player joined the group at level 12 and he got to pick 2 Rare items for his new character and then picked up a Shield +1 from party loot AND Huma's Dragonlance. So he's a total beast vs. fiends, undead and dragons.
Darkloki11, powergamer? Sure. I like to make an effective combat build. I also like non-combat skills, role playing and story lines. When you make a character, I assume you want to be effective in combat as well....yes?
All the epic/legendary magic items other players have were given to them before I joined the party. When I joined, was allowed to pick one Uncommon (Boots of Flying). At level 15, another player joined the group at level 12 and he got to pick 2 Rare items for his new character.
Darkloki11, powergamer? Sure. I like to make an effective combat build. I also like non-combat skills, role playing and story lines. When you make a character, I assume you want to be effective in combat as well....yes?
Being "effective in combat" does not mean the player is a power gamer (necessarily). This is a false comparison. First, being "effective in combat" does not necessarily mean raw damage. Secondly, there are many ways to be effective in any situation without having to squeeze every little point of damage/healing/etc.
I am not trying to be insulting. What I am saying is that the way the thread reads, IMHO, is:
1. You seem concerned with crunch and big numbers.
2. After 6 pages, you admit to being a power gamer. Trying to equate me (or anyone) with that label and trying to disguise it with "well don't you want to be effective in combat?" is just dishonest. Yes, we want to make fighters that can fight and wizards that can land spells... but that doesn't mean that those players are trying squeeze every point they can at all times in every situation.
3. Now you say the DM gave out all these magic items before you started and you are still overshadowing them??? That should tell you something.
4. You purposefully (self admitted power gamer) created a character that was designed to do damage. Fine. But again if your doing it from a complete munchkin playstyle, this can be terribly annoying to the DM and the other players.
All I am saying (like a lot of others on this thread) is that you have a different playstyle than the DM or group. Have you talked to your DM privately. Does he give any other details other than the short answers you say he does? It sounds to me, being a DM myself, is that he is annoyed with your character (or you) and doesn't know how to fix the problem.
There have been a lot of people with suggestions, there are also people that seem to be missing the point.
If I am discussing magic items and combat, yes....this is a part of D&D. It doesn't mean that I'm neglecting role play, out of combat skills or my character's background, traits, ideals, bonds or flaws. "You're just focused on combat and damage!". This isn't true, though it is the point of my post. I can RP my heart out, have personal goals, have quirks and mannerisms and play the game to the best of my ability. That isn't the topic of this post however. If I didn't rp, didn't know the history of the world m DM has me in, didn't care about NPCs....it'd still be a dick move to deny me an equal/fair amount of magical items.
The topic is, "My character does too much DPS in combat, so the DM isn't going to give me any magic items". You can read into that all you want, but the topic remains the same. My DM is using combat DPS as a metric for who gets magic items. As a DPS build (I don't heal very well and my tanking usually is Brave Sir Robin) , yes....I do combat damage. The Sorcerer in my party does nothing but combat damage...it is a role he fills, sometime quite well.
I'll try again to make myself clear. The Paladin in our group, who just joined, has more Rares/Epics/Legendaries than I do (since I really just have 3 Uncommons). He has a Sunblade, a Cloak of Displacement and Huma's Dragonlance. Other players have rare/legendary items from BEFORE I joined the group.
Honestly, I think it is you that is missing the point.
You are posting on a forum for responses. It seems like you don't want opinions or observations, it seems like you are looking for validation for being this position. What we are trying to do is offer possibilities as to why and how this came about so maybe you can fix it and be completely satisfied with your game. Shutting someone down because they point these things only furthers the conclusion that are just seeking validation for your complaints.
Yes, you can be a power gamer and role play... I don't think anyone else said anything differently.
I don't know what your DM is thinking, I only have my perspective as a DM. All I can say is this, extreme munchkin/power gaming is annoying. I personally wouldn't have let it get that far to begin with, but that is not the point. In the aspect of party balance, I believe he lost control of that and is handling this the only way he knows how. It's basically damage control (no pun intended). Your best bet would be to find another group that likes that kind of play style.
I don't know what your DM is thinking, I only have my perspective as a DM. All I can say is this, extreme munchkin/power gaming is annoying. I personally wouldn't have let it get that far to begin with, but that is not the point. In the aspect of party balance, I believe he lost control of that and is handling this the only way he knows how. It's basically damage control (no pun intended). Your best bet would be to find another group that likes that kind of play style.
I agree, the other players shouldn't have to resort to extreme munchkin/power gaming to try and match my DPS build.
DPS does damage. Tanks take damage. Healers heal. Trying to equalize damage across the board is going to make a broken game. "Sorry, can't give you any magic items, you're at the top of the DPS chart."
"find another group" is just a cop out and isn't the point of the post. It's still fun, good group, local players. If I had to grade it I'd give an A-, maybe a B+.
When my players roll up characters, I have them roll multiple sets of stats. I then review them and eliminate ones that are too powerful or too weak. Then, they are free to choose from the remaining stats. Sounds like you DM didn't review the characters or supervise the creation process?
We used a point-buy. There was no rolling. IMO, that means nobody can say, "Sure my character sucks, look how I rolled for stats! Steve lucked out and got such good stats...no wonder he's dominating the game. My guy suicides so I can re-roll."
Review the characters creation process? He laid down character creation rules and guidelines. I'm pretty sure he didn't veto a single thing, because everyone has the same rules and guidelines. Then again, I don't have privy to his private conversations with other players. He DID give me some leway on languages. As a Ranger, I proposed that Druidic might be available....he said sure, sacrifice two languages for Druid.
How many points did he give you for you to be able to do that much damage? My group prefers rolling up characters. I prefer it too... but you have to allow players to reroll characters if they would be too weak (or too powerful).
Maybe you should try rolling up a character in DCC... might be an eye opener for you.
I don't know what your DM is thinking, I only have my perspective as a DM. All I can say is this, extreme munchkin/power gaming is annoying. I personally wouldn't have let it get that far to begin with, but that is not the point. In the aspect of party balance, I believe he lost control of that and is handling this the only way he knows how. It's basically damage control (no pun intended). Your best bet would be to find another group that likes that kind of play style.
I agree, the other players shouldn't have to resort to extreme munchkin/power gaming to try and match my DPS build.
DPS does damage. Tanks take damage. Healers heal. Trying to equalize damage across the board is going to make a broken game. "Sorry, can't give you any magic items, you're at the top of the DPS chart."
"find another group" is just a cop out and isn't the point of the post. It's still fun, good group, local players. If I had to grade it I'd give an A-, maybe a B+.
"and match my DPS build."
This is part of the problem. You are making "builds", not characters. It doesn't matter if you have some backstory to make this "DPS Build" make sense, it's your D&D mindset that is part of the problem.
What it sounds like to me.. is that the other party members made characters that were not optimized so the DM gave them magic items to compensate. Now you come in and join this group with your extremely optimized munchkin/power gaming DPS build of doom and you are (supposedly) out performing them. Now you are in a situation where the DM doesn't want to give you any more magic items because of this. Whether this is fair or not can not be known as we don't have the DM's (or other player's) stories. We can only go by what you said.
So, instead of sitting here looking for validation, why don't you find a way to solve your problem? Some solutions that were posed before:
1. You can change characters
2. You can change the group
3. You can keep bugging your DM
4. Talk to the other players and see how they feel.
But seriously, I don't know what answers you expect to find here. Many people have pointed out the same thing and you just dismiss what they say.
I think there are better ways for a DM to deal with power gamer players than denying them things others in the group have. By using a variety of monsters with different resistances to damage or using monsters that challenge each character’s weaknesses will encourage players in their groups to develop well-rounded characters. Occasionally changing up the types of monsters you face can allow a variety of characters in the group to Shine. If players always face similar threats they will start to build their characters to deal with it.
In this instance it sounds to me like the player was allowed to build their character to a certain level and likely built it to be extremely effective at one thing...DPS. This can happen, but varying encounters is the best way of dealing with it. Additionally, not every encounter should be combat focused on an adventure so I can’t imagine this one player is completely dominating in his group in every aspect.
I think there are better ways for a DM to deal with power gamer players than denying them things others in the group have. By using a variety of monsters with different resistances to damage or using monsters that challenge each character’s weaknesses will encourage players in their groups to develop well-rounded characters. Occasionally changing up the types of monsters you face can allow a variety of characters in the group to Shine. If players always face similar threats they will start to build their characters to deal with it.
In this instance it sounds to me like the player was allowed to build their character to a certain level and likely built it to be extremely effective at one thing...DPS. This can happen, but varying encounters is the best way of dealing with it. Additionally, not every encounter should be combat focused on an adventure so I can’t imagine this one player is completely dominating in his group in every aspect.
I totally agree with you actually. The DM made a huge mistake dolling out magic items like an ATM machine. But as I said, we don't know their side of the story. Maybe the OP isn't being completely honest, maybe he the DM has an entirely different perspective, maybe the other players have an entirely different perspective, etc.
Ah, part of the problem is that the monsters often have resists to electricity or flame or poison. Other players have some of the damage hallved. All my damage is just straight magic damage. If needed, I can do silver/magic damage as well.
So my offense is set, I'm fine with that and the DM knows just about how much damage I can do a round. Here's the big question, how can the DM give me a magic item without making combat even more lop-sided.
That's what this thread is about, are magic items used to give defense players more offense? If that's the case, then an offensive player should be able to get more defense....
If DPS is used as a metric for who gets magic items and how doesn't, then defensive/tanks are getting buffed. They then have excellent defense and offense. A DPS build that doesn't have the same consideration, does excellent damage....but is a glass cannon/paper tiger.
All the epic/legendary magic items other players have were given to them before I joined the party. When I joined, was allowed to pick one Uncommon (Boots of Flying). At level 15, another player joined the group at level 12 and he got to pick 2 Rare items for his new character and then picked up a Shield +1 from party loot AND Huma's Dragonlance. So he's a total beast vs. fiends, undead and dragons.
Darkloki11, powergamer? Sure. I like to make an effective combat build. I also like non-combat skills, role playing and story lines. When you make a character, I assume you want to be effective in combat as well....yes?
There have been a lot of people with suggestions, there are also people that seem to be missing the point.
If I am discussing magic items and combat, yes....this is a part of D&D. It doesn't mean that I'm neglecting role play, out of combat skills or my character's background, traits, ideals, bonds or flaws. "You're just focused on combat and damage!". This isn't true, though it is the point of my post. I can RP my heart out, have personal goals, have quirks and mannerisms and play the game to the best of my ability. That isn't the topic of this post however. If I didn't rp, didn't know the history of the world m DM has me in, didn't care about NPCs....it'd still be a dick move to deny me an equal/fair amount of magical items.
The topic is, "My character does too much DPS in combat, so the DM isn't going to give me any magic items". You can read into that all you want, but the topic remains the same. My DM is using combat DPS as a metric for who gets magic items. As a DPS build (I don't heal very well and my tanking usually is Brave Sir Robin) , yes....I do combat damage. The Sorcerer in my party does nothing but combat damage...it is a role he fills, sometime quite well.
I'll try again to make myself clear. The Paladin in our group, who just joined, has more Rares/Epics/Legendaries than I do (since I really just have 3 Uncommons). He has a Sunblade, a Cloak of Displacement and Huma's Dragonlance. Other players have rare/legendary items from BEFORE I joined the group.
Same DM wants to run a SWG campaign.
I'm perfectly happy with a Mechanic/Co-Pilot/Field medic. It isn't all about "big numbers" but a role that the party needs.
Honestly, I think it is you that is missing the point.
You are posting on a forum for responses. It seems like you don't want opinions or observations, it seems like you are looking for validation for being this position. What we are trying to do is offer possibilities as to why and how this came about so maybe you can fix it and be completely satisfied with your game. Shutting someone down because they point these things only furthers the conclusion that are just seeking validation for your complaints.
Yes, you can be a power gamer and role play... I don't think anyone else said anything differently.
I don't know what your DM is thinking, I only have my perspective as a DM. All I can say is this, extreme munchkin/power gaming is annoying. I personally wouldn't have let it get that far to begin with, but that is not the point. In the aspect of party balance, I believe he lost control of that and is handling this the only way he knows how. It's basically damage control (no pun intended). Your best bet would be to find another group that likes that kind of play style.
I think there are better ways for a DM to deal with power gamer players than denying them things others in the group have. By using a variety of monsters with different resistances to damage or using monsters that challenge each character’s weaknesses will encourage players in their groups to develop well-rounded characters. Occasionally changing up the types of monsters you face can allow a variety of characters in the group to Shine. If players always face similar threats they will start to build their characters to deal with it.
In this instance it sounds to me like the player was allowed to build their character to a certain level and likely built it to be extremely effective at one thing...DPS. This can happen, but varying encounters is the best way of dealing with it. Additionally, not every encounter should be combat focused on an adventure so I can’t imagine this one player is completely dominating in his group in every aspect.
Ah, part of the problem is that the monsters often have resists to electricity or flame or poison. Other players have some of the damage hallved. All my damage is just straight magic damage. If needed, I can do silver/magic damage as well.
So my offense is set, I'm fine with that and the DM knows just about how much damage I can do a round. Here's the big question, how can the DM give me a magic item without making combat even more lop-sided.
That's what this thread is about, are magic items used to give defense players more offense? If that's the case, then an offensive player should be able to get more defense....
If DPS is used as a metric for who gets magic items and how doesn't, then defensive/tanks are getting buffed. They then have excellent defense and offense. A DPS build that doesn't have the same consideration, does excellent damage....but is a glass cannon/paper tiger.
He could always give you a cursed item...That’s magic. :)
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
And if you have a lot of money you cant use, just buy a mansion or a castle.
That is cool as a roleplaying thing. Maybe servants, a wife/husband and a trofé room to put the dragonstooth, lich head and other stuff you find.
I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.