You're all forgetting that binding the extra bonus action to a Cunning action would probaby fix much of those problems.
No, I think that might even be worse. It allows the rogue to attack, disengage, dash, and regular move on the same turn. That is, they hit and are then 60 feet away, so your average humanoid opponent can’t reach them and still be able to attack them. It effectively makes them untouchable in melee.
You're all forgetting that binding the extra bonus action to a Cunning action would probaby fix much of those problems.
No, I think that might even be worse. It allows the rogue to attack, disengage, dash, and regular move on the same turn. That is, they hit and are then 60 feet away, so your average humanoid opponent can’t reach them and still be able to attack them. It effectively makes them untouchable in melee.
well, at least it wouldn't enable multiclass multiattack beasts.
Imagine a 50-ft chasm opens before you, barring your path to victory. Your 3rd level Eladrin monk, STR 10, runs 10 ft, Bonus Action Step of the Wind doubles his jump distance to 20. At the end of that leap, when gravity brings him back to the same level he started from, Bonus Action Fey Step transports him the final 30 ft, planting his feet on solid ground instead of plummetting to his death that turn.
I was finding that the party was blasting through my monsters in a published campaign. No matter the difficulty of the encounter, the party was slaughtering them. I ended up having to buff the monsters to create any challenge at all. To allow their investments into attack, I didn't just buff their HP or AC, but did a more even buff including their to hit and damage stats too.
A few months later, the Barbarian throws a fit. He keeps getting KO'd. Turns out he's the only melee, so all that extra damage is being offloaded into him, and he can't take it. It's ruining the game for him. I explained why he's taking the brunt, which he agreed with, but I also said I'd have a look to see what's happening under the hood too.
Turns out the new guy, who was very knowledgeable about D&D (and I'd just left to get on with things and trusted him, since I was struggling with a hundred other things at the time) had interpreted Cunning Action to be an addition to the action economy, rather than an additional option. His Rogue was dealing loads of damage and then using a second Bonus Action (effectively) to hide again. What it ended up meaning that it ruined someone else's game.
It can be ok. It can also ruin the game for other people. Unfortunately, you might not find that out until too late (it didn't get that far in my game, I fixed the issue, adjusted the difficulty back and now the Barbarian's happy again).
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I was finding that the party was blasting through my monsters in a published campaign. No matter the difficulty of the encounter, the party was slaughtering them. I ended up having to buff the monsters to create any challenge at all. To allow their investments into attack, I didn't just buff their HP or AC, but did a more even buff including their to hit and damage stats too.
A few months later, the Barbarian throws a fit. He keeps getting KO'd. Turns out he's the only melee, so all that extra damage is being offloaded into him, and he can't take it. It's ruining the game for him. I explained why he's taking the brunt, which he agreed with, but I also said I'd have a look to see what's happening under the hood too.
Turns out the new guy, who was very knowledgeable about D&D (and I'd just left to get on with things and trusted him, since I was struggling with a hundred other things at the time) had interpreted Cunning Action to be an addition to the action economy, rather than an additional option. His Rogue was dealing loads of damage and then using a second Bonus Action (effectively) to hide again. What it ended up meaning that it ruined someone else's game.
It can be ok. It can also ruin the game for other people. Unfortunately, you might not find that out until too late (it didn't get that far in my game, I fixed the issue, adjusted the difficulty back and now the Barbarian's happy again).
Even with cunning action, you need to have somewhere to actually hide, to be able to hide. You cannot just disappear in the middle of an empty room while enemies are right there in the room with you. A lot of rogue players try to pull these tricks. The rogue has options for damage mitigation.
Also, why is every enemy piling on the Barbarian, anyway? Unless the fights are all in conveniently narrow corridors, shouldn't some enemies simply go around the whirling blades of death after the squishy artillery in back?
The topic was about the danger of giving additional Bonus Actions, which my.exoerience was about. Let's keep this on the topic rather than the encounter composition.
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No, I think that might even be worse. It allows the rogue to attack, disengage, dash, and regular move on the same turn. That is, they hit and are then 60 feet away, so your average humanoid opponent can’t reach them and still be able to attack them. It effectively makes them untouchable in melee.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
well, at least it wouldn't enable multiclass multiattack beasts.
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how would it make it worse when they can already do that with the extra bonus action. It just pigeon holes what the bonus action can do
Monsters with the "Reactive" quality usually fall in the 11+ CR range... Is it too much? No. Is it a lot? Yes.
Imagine a 50-ft chasm opens before you, barring your path to victory. Your 3rd level Eladrin monk, STR 10, runs 10 ft, Bonus Action Step of the Wind doubles his jump distance to 20. At the end of that leap, when gravity brings him back to the same level he started from, Bonus Action Fey Step transports him the final 30 ft, planting his feet on solid ground instead of plummetting to his death that turn.
Personal experience:
I was finding that the party was blasting through my monsters in a published campaign. No matter the difficulty of the encounter, the party was slaughtering them. I ended up having to buff the monsters to create any challenge at all. To allow their investments into attack, I didn't just buff their HP or AC, but did a more even buff including their to hit and damage stats too.
A few months later, the Barbarian throws a fit. He keeps getting KO'd. Turns out he's the only melee, so all that extra damage is being offloaded into him, and he can't take it. It's ruining the game for him. I explained why he's taking the brunt, which he agreed with, but I also said I'd have a look to see what's happening under the hood too.
Turns out the new guy, who was very knowledgeable about D&D (and I'd just left to get on with things and trusted him, since I was struggling with a hundred other things at the time) had interpreted Cunning Action to be an addition to the action economy, rather than an additional option. His Rogue was dealing loads of damage and then using a second Bonus Action (effectively) to hide again. What it ended up meaning that it ruined someone else's game.
It can be ok. It can also ruin the game for other people. Unfortunately, you might not find that out until too late (it didn't get that far in my game, I fixed the issue, adjusted the difficulty back and now the Barbarian's happy again).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Even with cunning action, you need to have somewhere to actually hide, to be able to hide. You cannot just disappear in the middle of an empty room while enemies are right there in the room with you. A lot of rogue players try to pull these tricks. The rogue has options for damage mitigation.
Also, why is every enemy piling on the Barbarian, anyway? Unless the fights are all in conveniently narrow corridors, shouldn't some enemies simply go around the whirling blades of death after the squishy artillery in back?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.