I'm not sure whether I'd say a Dragonborn, or a Lizardfolk or a kobold would simply be able to use instrumentation built for humanoid embrasures. Yes, they have lips, but unclear if they have the requisite suppleness and hydration.
My guess is if you wanted to be super technical about who can blare on the brass family then you'd probably need a different mouthpiece cup construction, heck you might for want to do so for goblinoid vs humanoid embrasure. It's fantasy handwavium but at least acknowledges the reality. You could also probably do something with beaked creatures. It seems odd to deprive creatures whose "influence species" like birds associated with musicality to deprive them of "sentient music" outside of choruses. I guess is your option would be to create separate culture/species music ways that are birdsong based and hiss based maybe throat singing bellow based for some of the reptiles and ambieans.
On a similar vein with woodwinds you're talking two subsets of mouth pieces. You have the flute family where you're simply blowing across the mouthpiece, and blowing over reeds (really simplifying technique on both there). Again, if you wanted to you could handwavium mouthpieces constructed for different species. I'm thinking beak species could have fluted instruments notched in a way to control beaked airflow the right way. Reeds complicate things, maybe their natural vocalization can do the job for them in its place (which actually means beaked "reed" players would have sturdier instruments than the folks requiring actual reeds).
In the end, unless you really want to nerd out on some sort of D&D versioning of ethnomusicology (which actually does sound a little fun) I'd just presume non human "humanoids" can make any instrument work in a typical cosmopolitan game setting. Again, you could go real deep into ethnomusicology being part of your world building, but I'd only do that if that's something you are particularly invested in (and your players are willing to work in and face "wait, I can't blow this horn?" moments) or you know you have players would also be keen in developing different music ways for non human species.
Again, cool topic I hand't really thought of and music's really important to me. Thank you for brining it into the forum.
I should have led with the caveat that in my game, music has had the Dylan at Newport Festival moment and magic makes "electric" instruments possible if you want them.* Electric guitars are an acquired taste, and the whole "Devil's music" thing is quite literal. Electrified instruments are more an outer planes sonic effect, yes the Abyssal and Infernally affiliated players are better than those who play oriented to the Celestial. Like there's a lot of technical virtuosodom with Celestial players but they don't grip your gut and nerves the way music stemming from the Deltas of the Styx do (it's sorta an Apollo v Marsyas sort of thing). The most interesting musical culture on these planes so to speak are the Gith, just because they have the time to dwell on their instruments possibilities. (That was all so "that guy" from Mad Max Fury Road was more plausible in Avernus). I haven't thought at all about percussion per se, though pianos tend to be more acoustic. There is one Bard who's pretty much made his fame by plagiarizing Chris Cornells solo work and work with Audioslave.
*None of my PCs have bothered, though they like the "wait, they're playing Hendrix?" but it's basically a variant of the Thaumaturgy cantrip spammed through performance. It's also possible to "battery" a rig for non casters.
Glad to help. If you dig it, look more into the Apollo and Marsyas myth. Most folks know about Apollo's mythic relationship to music. Marsyas is not as well known (possibly partly to do with his story being a little gruesome, and Apollo does not manage a good look in it) but I think a really useful myth to play off of for "rebellious" music.
Obliquely to this Satine Phoenix is in the midst or producing a product via Kickstarter that is sort of a Bard campaign where high concept metal music is key, so to speak. Only so much room for game books so I'm keeping my eye on it to see what folks say of it when it actually comes out. It sounded cool though.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
And why do you think they must conform to human style instruments?
If there were blow/wind/breath instruments from these races, they surely would have invented their own.
or
Bagpipes.
I think Wysperra's point is a valid consideration; but it brings things back to the "does each species then have its own ethnomusicology" question I brought up earlier" with species specific instruments. Sure a sort of deep world building logic would agree with different species having different varities of musical instrumentation, but then we're in super speculative fiction world since no one knows what instruments belonging to species with their own distinct anatomy, object manipulation neural pathways, and pitch/airflow traits. And what would their music sound like? I can see some DMs, as I mentioned, going full on musicologist for some parts of their game worlds, if music really matters, or more than just matters but is a central part of the campaign. Otherwise, that's a lot of world building where it's unclear whether players would appreciate the work.
I guess as an analogy with mechanical consequences. As far as I can tell only two weapons in 5e are actually species/cultural specific. That double bladed scimitar for elves in Exandria, and the Tortle's(?) Yklwa. A non mechanical but flavor aspect is the presumption of paper as the dominant written medium despite Dwarves, some Gnomes, and some Goblinoid societies being cave dwellers who probably de facto keep the word through stone carvings (as reflected in Drawven written language). Really the only species that has an interesting in lore take on written language are the Ithilid's, and I'm not even sure if that's canon in 5e.
The mental soundtrack is good and all, but how will it really play, so to speak, in the collective headspace of the table? If you're game is really centered on exploration and/or cultural exchange, going deep into different ways of music would be rewarding. But if it's just background, it's probably best to go with human-centric instrumentations or clearly recognizable analogs.
I'm digressing, but I'd also think of the friction between "alien" or "fantastic" music being introduced into a game and the player's ability to appreciate music. Think about music in Star Wars. Not the orchestration but the diegetic sound (that is music the characters would hear). The Cantina band is referential to swing. I don't know what the remastered number is Jabba's palace was trying to do beyond a muppet level show piece, but the original Return of the Jedi had music created by Lucas's daughter's garage punk band. The space opera (sic) scene in Revenge of the Sith ... folks think that's weird because I'd argue it was probably one of the franchises few attempts to do art from another galaxy (though it did sort of look like Cirque du Soleil on depressants by way of Barberella). Lin Manuel Miranda says up front that when he composed the music in Maz's hideout, he was basically rewriting Shaggy's "Wasn't Me" in Huttese. There was an interesting musical number in Solo, but it was clearly a torch song. Heck, if you're into immersion music "whoa" moments, the opening music of Jedi: Fallen Order (which you think at first is non diegetic, but then it goes diegetic because it turns out the protagonist was listening to the music on his earbuds) is by The HU's self styled mash up of "Mongolion Folk Metal (in a made up Star Wars language)" So there you have "alien" (though a galaxy that seems largely human hegemonic) music that's still relying on human reference points to function narratively to the movie or game their in.
My practical conclusion is this is cool stuff to think about from a world building perspective if you have the pleasure and time to do so. In the end though you can't really go too hard into it less you want to alienate species cultures from each other, and human musical references are diverse enough to build what you want (with care to cultural appropriation and the like, understand what you're borrowing and be good about it).
Yes all can play those things. The mouth pieces would be different.
in D&D sure because magic whatever...but I think the point of the question is 'should' those creatures be able to play them because they don't have lips...and you need lips for several instruments. its just like asking if a character has no arms, should it be able to wield a sword (prosthetics and magic aside). Sure you can have alternatives, but an alternative to a trumpet for something without lips isn't a trumpet, its a different instrument.
so yall think a Dragonborn, Tortle and Aarakocra could play a horn or a woodwind? thoughts on these societies and alternative mouth pieces.
thank you for any help.
should this be a bard thread?
Yes on dragonborn, they have lips.
Aarakocra definitely can't.
Tortles are weirder, but I'm guessing they're intended to have normal turtle/tortoise beaks, so also no.
thank you man
This is neat question, thank you for posting it.
I'm not sure whether I'd say a Dragonborn, or a Lizardfolk or a kobold would simply be able to use instrumentation built for humanoid embrasures. Yes, they have lips, but unclear if they have the requisite suppleness and hydration.
My guess is if you wanted to be super technical about who can blare on the brass family then you'd probably need a different mouthpiece cup construction, heck you might for want to do so for goblinoid vs humanoid embrasure. It's fantasy handwavium but at least acknowledges the reality. You could also probably do something with beaked creatures. It seems odd to deprive creatures whose "influence species" like birds associated with musicality to deprive them of "sentient music" outside of choruses. I guess is your option would be to create separate culture/species music ways that are birdsong based and hiss based maybe throat singing bellow based for some of the reptiles and ambieans.
On a similar vein with woodwinds you're talking two subsets of mouth pieces. You have the flute family where you're simply blowing across the mouthpiece, and blowing over reeds (really simplifying technique on both there). Again, if you wanted to you could handwavium mouthpieces constructed for different species. I'm thinking beak species could have fluted instruments notched in a way to control beaked airflow the right way. Reeds complicate things, maybe their natural vocalization can do the job for them in its place (which actually means beaked "reed" players would have sturdier instruments than the folks requiring actual reeds).
In the end, unless you really want to nerd out on some sort of D&D versioning of ethnomusicology (which actually does sound a little fun) I'd just presume non human "humanoids" can make any instrument work in a typical cosmopolitan game setting. Again, you could go real deep into ethnomusicology being part of your world building, but I'd only do that if that's something you are particularly invested in (and your players are willing to work in and face "wait, I can't blow this horn?" moments) or you know you have players would also be keen in developing different music ways for non human species.
Again, cool topic I hand't really thought of and music's really important to me. Thank you for brining it into the forum.
I should have led with the caveat that in my game, music has had the Dylan at Newport Festival moment and magic makes "electric" instruments possible if you want them.* Electric guitars are an acquired taste, and the whole "Devil's music" thing is quite literal. Electrified instruments are more an outer planes sonic effect, yes the Abyssal and Infernally affiliated players are better than those who play oriented to the Celestial. Like there's a lot of technical virtuosodom with Celestial players but they don't grip your gut and nerves the way music stemming from the Deltas of the Styx do (it's sorta an Apollo v Marsyas sort of thing). The most interesting musical culture on these planes so to speak are the Gith, just because they have the time to dwell on their instruments possibilities. (That was all so "that guy" from Mad Max Fury Road was more plausible in Avernus). I haven't thought at all about percussion per se, though pianos tend to be more acoustic. There is one Bard who's pretty much made his fame by plagiarizing Chris Cornells solo work and work with Audioslave.
*None of my PCs have bothered, though they like the "wait, they're playing Hendrix?" but it's basically a variant of the Thaumaturgy cantrip spammed through performance. It's also possible to "battery" a rig for non casters.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
thank you man. great thoughts. "devils music" i love it
Glad to help. If you dig it, look more into the Apollo and Marsyas myth. Most folks know about Apollo's mythic relationship to music. Marsyas is not as well known (possibly partly to do with his story being a little gruesome, and Apollo does not manage a good look in it) but I think a really useful myth to play off of for "rebellious" music.
Obliquely to this Satine Phoenix is in the midst or producing a product via Kickstarter that is sort of a Bard campaign where high concept metal music is key, so to speak. Only so much room for game books so I'm keeping my eye on it to see what folks say of it when it actually comes out. It sounded cool though.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
i will take a look at both. thanks
And why do you think they must conform to human style instruments?
If there were blow/wind/breath instruments from these races, they surely would have invented their own.
or
Bagpipes.
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thank you for the input. interesting thought about playing with the tongue.
BAGPIPES!! THAT IS A GREAT IDEA! thank you.
Yes all can play those things. The mouth pieces would be different.
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thank you man
everyone i have shown this to agrees. thanks agan man
I think Wysperra's point is a valid consideration; but it brings things back to the "does each species then have its own ethnomusicology" question I brought up earlier" with species specific instruments. Sure a sort of deep world building logic would agree with different species having different varities of musical instrumentation, but then we're in super speculative fiction world since no one knows what instruments belonging to species with their own distinct anatomy, object manipulation neural pathways, and pitch/airflow traits. And what would their music sound like? I can see some DMs, as I mentioned, going full on musicologist for some parts of their game worlds, if music really matters, or more than just matters but is a central part of the campaign. Otherwise, that's a lot of world building where it's unclear whether players would appreciate the work.
I guess as an analogy with mechanical consequences. As far as I can tell only two weapons in 5e are actually species/cultural specific. That double bladed scimitar for elves in Exandria, and the Tortle's(?) Yklwa. A non mechanical but flavor aspect is the presumption of paper as the dominant written medium despite Dwarves, some Gnomes, and some Goblinoid societies being cave dwellers who probably de facto keep the word through stone carvings (as reflected in Drawven written language). Really the only species that has an interesting in lore take on written language are the Ithilid's, and I'm not even sure if that's canon in 5e.
The mental soundtrack is good and all, but how will it really play, so to speak, in the collective headspace of the table? If you're game is really centered on exploration and/or cultural exchange, going deep into different ways of music would be rewarding. But if it's just background, it's probably best to go with human-centric instrumentations or clearly recognizable analogs.
I'm digressing, but I'd also think of the friction between "alien" or "fantastic" music being introduced into a game and the player's ability to appreciate music. Think about music in Star Wars. Not the orchestration but the diegetic sound (that is music the characters would hear). The Cantina band is referential to swing. I don't know what the remastered number is Jabba's palace was trying to do beyond a muppet level show piece, but the original Return of the Jedi had music created by Lucas's daughter's garage punk band. The space opera (sic) scene in Revenge of the Sith ... folks think that's weird because I'd argue it was probably one of the franchises few attempts to do art from another galaxy (though it did sort of look like Cirque du Soleil on depressants by way of Barberella). Lin Manuel Miranda says up front that when he composed the music in Maz's hideout, he was basically rewriting Shaggy's "Wasn't Me" in Huttese. There was an interesting musical number in Solo, but it was clearly a torch song. Heck, if you're into immersion music "whoa" moments, the opening music of Jedi: Fallen Order (which you think at first is non diegetic, but then it goes diegetic because it turns out the protagonist was listening to the music on his earbuds) is by The HU's self styled mash up of "Mongolion Folk Metal (in a made up Star Wars language)" So there you have "alien" (though a galaxy that seems largely human hegemonic) music that's still relying on human reference points to function narratively to the movie or game their in.
My practical conclusion is this is cool stuff to think about from a world building perspective if you have the pleasure and time to do so. In the end though you can't really go too hard into it less you want to alienate species cultures from each other, and human musical references are diverse enough to build what you want (with care to cultural appropriation and the like, understand what you're borrowing and be good about it).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
more great thoughts. thank you again man.
in D&D sure because magic whatever...but I think the point of the question is 'should' those creatures be able to play them because they don't have lips...and you need lips for several instruments. its just like asking if a character has no arms, should it be able to wield a sword (prosthetics and magic aside). Sure you can have alternatives, but an alternative to a trumpet for something without lips isn't a trumpet, its a different instrument.
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thank you man.