How exactly, do you contain a psionic without causing brain damage?
It's not like that problem doesn't already exist for sorcerers, and other than an antimagic shell, it has the same basic set of solutions: incapacitating effects like feeblemind or flesh to stone or polymorph.
D&D characters in general are exceedingly hard to contain, especially if you don't know their capabilities. Just a first-level character who happens to be Eladrin is a huge pain, and that's just the first example that comes to mind.
As I recall, lead is commonly supposed to be a block on psychic powers.
Let’s say a party of six PCs are dungeon crawling. It has already been claimed by the pro-psionics are different crowd that prions can have the ability to polymorph. The pasión is polymorphed into a rodent and tries to pass himself off as the wizard’s familisr. How is the monster supposed to know that he just got ego whipped by the wizard’s familiar?
D&D characters in general are exceedingly hard to contain, especially if you don't know their capabilities. Just a first-level character who happens to be Eladrin is a huge pain, and that's just the first example that comes to mind.
As I recall, lead is commonly supposed to be a block on psychic powers.
1) Eladrin are easy to contain, they have to see where they're teleporting to. Blindfold or solid windowless cell, done.
2) Lead never blocked psionics in any edition of D&D. At best, it blocks some divinations, which is the least of the problem.
It's not like that problem doesn't already exist for sorcerers, and other than an antimagic shell, it has the same basic set of solutions: incapacitating effects like feeblemind or flesh to stone or polymorph.
So I guess every society without a 11+ level caster in their judicial system gets to kick rocks. Great worldbuilding you have there.
That's already the case when dealing with sorcerers, among many others. The argument here seems to be that psychic powers have a problem that's already extremely prevalent, so I don't think it's something to get worked up about.
Double-digit Int and Wis save bonuses, for starters. Also some relevant condition immunities. And five legendary saves.
Ah, so the psion gets to bypass every other defense the CR 26 enemy has and he has to fall back on his ability scores and legendary saves. Very design, such game, wow.
Sort of like the fighter, monk, ranger, etc. do. In fact, the martials just have to bypass his armor class, which isn't so hot.
But he's got no special defense to a paladin with a bag full of smites. Or just a sorcerer who can use subtle spell. Honestly, even with his three counterspells a turn, he's going down fast without minions.
1) The Paladin with their "bag full of smites" still needs to deal with Fell Rebuke, so they're only landing one if he's played smart.
2) Subtle spells can still be Globed or Dispelled. Man, if only the designers gave him those abilities.
Fell rebuke uses one of those precious reactions, and lands him in move range. And one smite still hits like a truck. Globe is 5th level and lower, and immobile, which means he has to sit there and take it from the martials. And casting means he can't use his beefier abilities.
Yeah, he's got some defenses, but it's not like he's uniquely vulnerable to the hypothetical psychic. He's just not designed to ruin their day in specific.
It's not like that problem doesn't already exist for sorcerers, and other than an antimagic shell, it has the same basic set of solutions: incapacitating effects like feeblemind or flesh to stone or polymorph.
So I guess every society without a 11+ level caster in their judicial system gets to kick rocks. Great worldbuilding you have there.
Nah, that's only if you care about keeping them alive. Death is also a pretty effective incapacitating effect. In any case, my main point is that this problem already exists so psions don't add a lot new to the problem.
Let’s say a party of six PCs are dungeon crawling. It has already been claimed by the pro-psionics are different crowd that prions can have the ability to polymorph. The pasión is polymorphed into a rodent and tries to pass himself off as the wizard’s familisr. How is the monster supposed to know that he just got ego whipped by the wizard’s familiar?
This assumes:
psychic attacks have no effect, visual or otherwise, that let the target know who attacked them
psi powers don't fall under "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form"
psi powers include shapeshifting which, while it probably occurs from time to time in the literature, is in no way something that can be considered a core psychic power
All of these are major assumptions about a system that doesn't exist, and certainly are not givens.
D&D characters in general are exceedingly hard to contain, especially if you don't know their capabilities. Just a first-level character who happens to be Eladrin is a huge pain, and that's just the first example that comes to mind.
As I recall, lead is commonly supposed to be a block on psychic powers.
1) Eladrin are easy to contain, they have to see where they're teleporting to. Blindfold or solid windowless cell, done.
Having an answer for one specific example doesn't disprove the general principle. There are 60+ species, 13 classes, and numerous subclasses. Are all their tricks so easily countered, all at once?
And this assumes that the imprisoners can identify an Eladrin as opposed to some other elf, know that they have that power, know the specific parameters of that power, etc, and can keep the necessary conditions intact. (That windowless cell fails as soon as somebody has to open the door.)
And yes, a well-informed enemy can probably counter all the tricks the party has, though it's going to start to feel railroady at some point. But then, they can do that with psychics as well, unless you specifically define them as having no stoppers.
2) Lead never blocked psionics in any edition of D&D. At best, it blocks some divinations, which is the least of the problem.
Not sure why we must be beholden to the decisions of previous incarnations of psi, especially if unblockability is such an obvious balance problem.
Nah, that's only if you care about keeping them alive. Death is also a pretty effective incapacitating effect.
So Evil societies that apply the death penalty to literally everyone regardless of transgression can deal with psions - fantastic. In actual D&D settings though, most civilized societies use prisons of some kind.
psychic attacks have no effect, visual or otherwise, that let the target know who attacked them
psi powers don't fall under "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form"
psi powers include shapeshifting which, while it probably occurs from time to time in the literature, is in no way something that can be considered a core psychic power
All of these are major assumptions about a system that doesn't exist, and certainly are not givens.
So are you saying your proposed psionics system would have these drawbacks? Because this is the closest you've come in the entire thread to offering up anything approaching specifics.
Having an answer for one specific example doesn't disprove the general principle.
It's not one specific example - literally every racial teleport relies on sight. It would be a basic precaution in just about any settlement of sufficient size.
Sensory effects would be a great way to show that Psions are doing things. Glowing eyes, auroras of light, shimmering, and distortion around manipulated objects or creatures are only a few options.
Okay, so Displays. Reinstating those would be better than nothing, sure, and allow manifesting to be noticed in the moment. That doesn't solve any of the other issues with detectability, let alone the other aspects of transparency, but at least you've made the first step.
People want psions to have no limitations basically. No way to anti psion them or protect against them.
Bring that whole idea around again to the Caster, Martial divide. Its bad enough now and some people want it to be even worse.
For this simple reason psionics will never fit into D&D the right way.
As for jailing casters.
Just make up simple anti magic shackles. Those and a Hannibal Lector type of Mask of Silence and most casters are shut down. A full hood or windowless room will stop most teleporting.
Nothing could totally stop all possible ways out, or in.
Any town with enough money to build a real jail will very quickly buy a few magic items to help with holding casters.
A simple cantrip can produce a perfect image of the prisoner.(a normal artist can copy) So if he escapes he will be able to be hunted by standard means and also magical means.
With magical hunting possible it would be standard practice to take and hide a personal item or clothing from each prisoner. Something that could be used to track them if they escape.
Special monsters or animals could be used to watch over or track them also.
Gelatinous cubes in the septic system to stop anything from escaping that way.
Nah, that's only if you care about keeping them alive. Death is also a pretty effective incapacitating effect.
So Evil societies that apply the death penalty to literally everyone regardless of transgression can deal with psions - fantastic. In actual D&D settings though, most civilized societies use prisons of some kind.
Which PCs are expected to escape from in, generally, 1-2 sessions, and villains escape from when plot convenient. Actual lasting imprisonment is generally plot device "the cult of X plans to free him from his eternal prison" and on level of imprisonment.
If by now you mean 4 days ago, then sure. I have been advocation for Sensory effects since I got into this mess of a thread, against my better judgement.
No, try again. Exactly two abilities in that linked post mentioned having a noticeable display of any kind - "Psionic Attack" and "Psionic Burst." None of the others you proposed did. Not only is that not a display system, it's not even suggesting that you think an overarching display system of any kind is necessary.
Maybe you should take breath and come back and have a more civil conversation.
I'm not merely advocating for it being "magic", I'm recommending it be based on the full spellcasting framework (with the main difference being the removal of VSM components and rebalancing their power, ammunition etc around that.)
And I appreciate your input on my 'conversation,' but I have been civil.
Which PCs are expected to escape from in, generally, 1-2 sessions, and villains escape from when plot convenient. Actual lasting imprisonment is generally plot device "the cult of X plans to free him from his eternal prison" and on level of imprisonment.
PCs are not the only characters in a world. For a world to feel believable and lived-in, questions like how does a level 1 Eladrin Enchanter (PC or NPC) not end up running the entire kingdom from the shadows besides DM fiat need to be answered by the world-building. And introducing full-on psionics to those worlds compounds that question considerably, which is why the mechanics need to be considered carefully to avoid injecting ludonarrative dissonance all over the place.
Sorcerers, incl. Aberrant Mind Sorcerers can only ignore verbal and somatic components while sorc points hold out.
Which is as long as they have spell slots to turn into sorcery points. "If you want to cast everything subtly you can't cast as many spells per day" is what we call "balance" (and as long as the aberrant mind is only casting psionic sorcery spells, he isn't even casting fewer spells per day -- you can convert a level X spell slot into X sorcery points and then use it to cast a level X spell).
Keep in mind that to cast, most sorcerers still need a spell slot (which you now have fewer of, since you converted slots to points). Aberrant Minds do not have that problem, no but do not get that until 6th, plus that ability. And in either case an extra bonus action is needed in there for each conversion.
You are also assuming that the Sorcerer has absolutely nothing else better to do with their sorcerer points, particularly since, if they cast something like a fireball, sure the enemy would not be warned by the gestures but as with most direct attack spells, they still see something fly from the caster to the target.
Let’s say a party of six PCs are dungeon crawling. It has already been claimed by the pro-psionics are different crowd that prions can have the ability to polymorph. The pasión is polymorphed into a rodent and tries to pass himself off as the wizard’s familisr. How is the monster supposed to know that he just got ego whipped by the wizard’s familiar?
"Gee, that is not normal mouse behavior, is it?" Or even "Hmmm, dinner!" And if they think it is the familiar of a friendly wizard, then the Psion better have that extra right, since they know that any stray mouse could be some other hostile wizard's familiar and have far better odds of being on guard against stray small animals.
Plus there could be (and likely would be, given this is 5e) a limitation that the Psion cannot use their other powers while in animal form. In fact, concentration being more limiting on Psions could be a potential balancing thing.
Who said the Psion doesn't appear to be behaving like a rat familiar?
1) Knowledge?
a) Please explain to me how rat familiars behave in general.
b) Now please explain to me how this specific rat familiar behaves.
c) Please explain how the Psion simply knows all these things
2) Performance check. In rat form yet.
3) Now explain to me why there aren't standing orders to kill rats. They are associated with things like being plague carriers, eat valuable food reserves and if they are familiars, then why would whoever runs the place be happy with being spied upon?
And if the Psion can get past all that, they are taking jobs from Druids? The druid would almost certainly have a head start on knowing how to act like a normal, non-familiar rat.
Nah, that's only if you care about keeping them alive. Death is also a pretty effective incapacitating effect.
So Evil societies that apply the death penalty to literally everyone regardless of transgression can deal with psions - fantastic. In actual D&D settings though, most civilized societies use prisons of some kind.
And in actual D&D settings, characters with class levels are incredibly difficult to imprison for any length of time without turning the regular old lockup into a magical supermax. It's simply a fact of the system, and really undermines that particular argument against psi.
psychic attacks have no effect, visual or otherwise, that let the target know who attacked them
psi powers don't fall under "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form"
psi powers include shapeshifting which, while it probably occurs from time to time in the literature, is in no way something that can be considered a core psychic power
All of these are major assumptions about a system that doesn't exist, and certainly are not givens.
So are you saying your proposed psionics system would have these drawbacks? Because this is the closest you've come in the entire thread to offering up anything approaching specifics.
"My proposed psionics system?" The closest thing I have to a "proposed system" is a quarter-assed thing I wrote off the top of my head to illustrate how such a class might be structured. It addressed none of these questions, because they were irrelevant.
You all constantly take every single thing somebody talking about psi said might be a property of it, and turn it into something that everyone arguing for psi in the general case is in favor of, and must satisfy you about before psionics is viable.
Take shapechanging -- I don't think anybody currently arguing for psi this thread has ever said "shapeshifting should be a part of psi". And yet, somehow, you're demanding we defend our system against a very specific scenario with at least three fixed assumptions, none of which have to be the case for a psi system. And one of them is simply a matter of rules interpretation with strong precedent against it being so -- if you polymorph a mind flayer into a vole, the expectation at most tables is that it can't keep mind blasting you.
Similarly, when Lia_black popped in with a early draft class, one of you immediately jumped in with something along the line of "Vital question: is psi magic", like it is some make-or-break fundamental property of a psi system, instead of a minor question that you can flip-flop on the answer to without affecting the design a all.
Not sure why we must be beholden to the decisions of previous incarnations of psi, especially if unblockability is such an obvious balance problem.
You were the one who claimed to "remember" a lead weakness, I was just correcting you. It seems you pulled that out of... thin air.
I said nothing about lead vs psi in past D&D rules.
What I said was:
As I recall, lead is commonly supposed to be a block on psychic powers.
Which is a statement about the common lore. Not even the D&D lore. What people in general think. How it works in fiction. I could be wrong, but bringing up the rules of past D&D to argue the point is a non-sequitur.
And even if I am wrong about it being a common belief, it's not so weird an idea that, if a psi system for D&D needed a prosaic means of blocking it, it's a perfectly reasonable choice.
Take shapechanging -- I don't think anybody currently arguing for psi this thread has ever said "shapeshifting should be a part of psi". And yet, somehow, you're demanding we defend our system against a very specific scenario with at least three fixed assumptions, none of which have to be the case for a psi system. And one of them is simply a matter of rules interpretation with strong precedent against it being so -- if you polymorph a mind flayer into a vole, the expectation at most tables is that it can't keep mind blasting you.
Shapeshifting came into this by way of someone's ChatGPT answer including something to the effect that Psions should not be allowed to shapechange because that's a druid thing.
And that admonishment is not just being taken as important, but as unquestionable.
Take shapechanging -- I don't think anybody currently arguing for psi this thread has ever said "shapeshifting should be a part of psi". And yet, somehow, you're demanding we defend our system against a very specific scenario with at least three fixed assumptions, none of which have to be the case for a psi system. And one of them is simply a matter of rules interpretation with strong precedent against it being so -- if you polymorph a mind flayer into a vole, the expectation at most tables is that it can't keep mind blasting you.
Shapeshifting came into this by way of someone's ChatGPT answer including something to the effect that Psions should not be allowed to shapechange because that's a druid thing.
And that admonishment is not just being taken as important, but as unquestionable.
It's likely been in the conversation before that -- full control of the body is sometimes included in psi powers, and that can include shapechanging. Pretty sure it was in the mystic UA, but that was a weird conflation of at least two separate archetypes.
Keep in mind that to cast, most sorcerers still need a spell slot (which you now have fewer of, since you converted slots to points). Aberrant Minds do not have that problem, no but do not get that until 6th, plus that ability. And in either case an extra bonus action is needed in there for each conversion.
You are also assuming that the Sorcerer has absolutely nothing else better to do with their sorcerer points, particularly since, if they cast something like a fireball, sure the enemy would not be warned by the gestures but as with most direct attack spells, they still see something fly from the caster to the target.
That's... that's literally the point Kotath 🤨 If you want the mechanical advantage of casting all your powers without needing VSM components, there has to be a cost associated with that in order to balance it against spellcasting. How are you still not grasping this concept?
Alternatively, you can convert the entire magic system and worldbuilding to not need spell components, like Starfinder did, which would remove any balance concerns. But then you're not really playing 5e anymore. (Which is fine, other games exist and are fun, but my understanding was that you're trying to add this system the extant 5e framework.)
And in actual D&D settings, characters with class levels are incredibly difficult to imprison for any length of time without turning the regular old lockup into a magical supermax. It's simply a fact of the system, and really undermines that particular argument against psi.
It's truly not that hard, especially for lower-level characters. The vast majority of spells that would enable casters to escape or circumvent incarceration need material components/foci (which can be confiscated), movement/speech (which can be restricted) and/or sight (which can be blocked.) And the designers designed those spells that way for a reason - because they put actual thought into the system they created that you seem determined to overlook for some reason.
"My proposed psionics system?" The closest thing I have to a "proposed system" is a quarter-assed thing I wrote off the top of my head to illustrate how such a class might be structured. It addressed none of these questions, because they were irrelevant.
You all constantly take every single thing somebody talking about psi said might be a property of it, and turn it into something that everyone arguing for psi in the general case is in favor of, and must satisfy you about before psionics is viable.
Given that my own psionics don't appear to be effective over the internet, I can only evaluate the things that you say about your proposal, yes. And if you're not actually proposing anything, then tell me, where do we go from here?
Which is a statement about the common lore. Not even the D&D lore. What people in general think. How it works in fiction.
What fiction is that? The most common inspirations for psionics that I'm aware of are things like HP Lovecraft, X-Men, Dune, maybe Wheel of Time if we want to get fancy. And of course chakras from various spiritual mythologies/religions that I don't think we can elaborate on here. Lead doesn't feature as a specific deterrent in any of them; all of the times I've seen lead come up in fiction, it's effective at blocking all magic, not just psionics. So where are you getting lead > psionics from?
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D&D characters in general are exceedingly hard to contain, especially if you don't know their capabilities. Just a first-level character who happens to be Eladrin is a huge pain, and that's just the first example that comes to mind.
As I recall, lead is commonly supposed to be a block on psychic powers.
PsyrenXY raises a good question.
Let’s say a party of six PCs are dungeon crawling. It has already been claimed by the pro-psionics are different crowd that prions can have the ability to polymorph. The pasión is polymorphed into a rodent and tries to pass himself off as the wizard’s familisr. How is the monster supposed to know that he just got ego whipped by the wizard’s familiar?
1) Eladrin are easy to contain, they have to see where they're teleporting to. Blindfold or solid windowless cell, done.
2) Lead never blocked psionics in any edition of D&D. At best, it blocks some divinations, which is the least of the problem.
That's already the case when dealing with sorcerers, among many others. The argument here seems to be that psychic powers have a problem that's already extremely prevalent, so I don't think it's something to get worked up about.
Sort of like the fighter, monk, ranger, etc. do. In fact, the martials just have to bypass his armor class, which isn't so hot.
Fell rebuke uses one of those precious reactions, and lands him in move range. And one smite still hits like a truck. Globe is 5th level and lower, and immobile, which means he has to sit there and take it from the martials. And casting means he can't use his beefier abilities.
Yeah, he's got some defenses, but it's not like he's uniquely vulnerable to the hypothetical psychic. He's just not designed to ruin their day in specific.
Nah, that's only if you care about keeping them alive. Death is also a pretty effective incapacitating effect. In any case, my main point is that this problem already exists so psions don't add a lot new to the problem.
This assumes:
All of these are major assumptions about a system that doesn't exist, and certainly are not givens.
Having an answer for one specific example doesn't disprove the general principle. There are 60+ species, 13 classes, and numerous subclasses. Are all their tricks so easily countered, all at once?
And this assumes that the imprisoners can identify an Eladrin as opposed to some other elf, know that they have that power, know the specific parameters of that power, etc, and can keep the necessary conditions intact. (That windowless cell fails as soon as somebody has to open the door.)
And yes, a well-informed enemy can probably counter all the tricks the party has, though it's going to start to feel railroady at some point. But then, they can do that with psychics as well, unless you specifically define them as having no stoppers.
Not sure why we must be beholden to the decisions of previous incarnations of psi, especially if unblockability is such an obvious balance problem.
I do not see why psionics could not have some Somatic, Verbal, Material components or even a focus.
So Evil societies that apply the death penalty to literally everyone regardless of transgression can deal with psions - fantastic. In actual D&D settings though, most civilized societies use prisons of some kind.
So are you saying your proposed psionics system would have these drawbacks? Because this is the closest you've come in the entire thread to offering up anything approaching specifics.
It's not one specific example - literally every racial teleport relies on sight. It would be a basic precaution in just about any settlement of sufficient size.
You were the one who claimed to "remember" a lead weakness, I was just correcting you. It seems you pulled that out of... thin air.
None of you said anything specific until now, that was my point.
Okay, so Displays. Reinstating those would be better than nothing, sure, and allow manifesting to be noticed in the moment. That doesn't solve any of the other issues with detectability, let alone the other aspects of transparency, but at least you've made the first step.
I love this argument line.
People want psions to have no limitations basically. No way to anti psion them or protect against them.
Bring that whole idea around again to the Caster, Martial divide. Its bad enough now and some people want it to be even worse.
For this simple reason psionics will never fit into D&D the right way.
As for jailing casters.
Just make up simple anti magic shackles. Those and a Hannibal Lector type of Mask of Silence and most casters are shut down. A full hood or windowless room will stop most teleporting.
Nothing could totally stop all possible ways out, or in.
Any town with enough money to build a real jail will very quickly buy a few magic items to help with holding casters.
A simple cantrip can produce a perfect image of the prisoner.(a normal artist can copy) So if he escapes he will be able to be hunted by standard means and also magical means.
With magical hunting possible it would be standard practice to take and hide a personal item or clothing from each prisoner. Something that could be used to track them if they escape.
Special monsters or animals could be used to watch over or track them also.
Gelatinous cubes in the septic system to stop anything from escaping that way.
Which PCs are expected to escape from in, generally, 1-2 sessions, and villains escape from when plot convenient. Actual lasting imprisonment is generally plot device "the cult of X plans to free him from his eternal prison" and on level of imprisonment.
No, try again. Exactly two abilities in that linked post mentioned having a noticeable display of any kind - "Psionic Attack" and "Psionic Burst." None of the others you proposed did. Not only is that not a display system, it's not even suggesting that you think an overarching display system of any kind is necessary.
I'm not merely advocating for it being "magic", I'm recommending it be based on the full spellcasting framework (with the main difference being the removal of VSM components and rebalancing their power, ammunition etc around that.)
And I appreciate your input on my 'conversation,' but I have been civil.
PCs are not the only characters in a world. For a world to feel believable and lived-in, questions like how does a level 1 Eladrin Enchanter (PC or NPC) not end up running the entire kingdom from the shadows besides DM fiat need to be answered by the world-building. And introducing full-on psionics to those worlds compounds that question considerably, which is why the mechanics need to be considered carefully to avoid injecting ludonarrative dissonance all over the place.
Keep in mind that to cast, most sorcerers still need a spell slot (which you now have fewer of, since you converted slots to points). Aberrant Minds do not have that problem, no but do not get that until 6th, plus that ability. And in either case an extra bonus action is needed in there for each conversion.
You are also assuming that the Sorcerer has absolutely nothing else better to do with their sorcerer points, particularly since, if they cast something like a fireball, sure the enemy would not be warned by the gestures but as with most direct attack spells, they still see something fly from the caster to the target.
"Gee, that is not normal mouse behavior, is it?" Or even "Hmmm, dinner!" And if they think it is the familiar of a friendly wizard, then the Psion better have that extra right, since they know that any stray mouse could be some other hostile wizard's familiar and have far better odds of being on guard against stray small animals.
Plus there could be (and likely would be, given this is 5e) a limitation that the Psion cannot use their other powers while in animal form. In fact, concentration being more limiting on Psions could be a potential balancing thing.
Who said the Psion doesn't appear to be behaving like a rat familiar?
1) Knowledge?
a) Please explain to me how rat familiars behave in general.
b) Now please explain to me how this specific rat familiar behaves.
c) Please explain how the Psion simply knows all these things
2) Performance check. In rat form yet.
3) Now explain to me why there aren't standing orders to kill rats. They are associated with things like being plague carriers, eat valuable food reserves and if they are familiars, then why would whoever runs the place be happy with being spied upon?
And if the Psion can get past all that, they are taking jobs from Druids? The druid would almost certainly have a head start on knowing how to act like a normal, non-familiar rat.
And in actual D&D settings, characters with class levels are incredibly difficult to imprison for any length of time without turning the regular old lockup into a magical supermax. It's simply a fact of the system, and really undermines that particular argument against psi.
"My proposed psionics system?" The closest thing I have to a "proposed system" is a quarter-assed thing I wrote off the top of my head to illustrate how such a class might be structured. It addressed none of these questions, because they were irrelevant.
You all constantly take every single thing somebody talking about psi said might be a property of it, and turn it into something that everyone arguing for psi in the general case is in favor of, and must satisfy you about before psionics is viable.
Take shapechanging -- I don't think anybody currently arguing for psi this thread has ever said "shapeshifting should be a part of psi". And yet, somehow, you're demanding we defend our system against a very specific scenario with at least three fixed assumptions, none of which have to be the case for a psi system. And one of them is simply a matter of rules interpretation with strong precedent against it being so -- if you polymorph a mind flayer into a vole, the expectation at most tables is that it can't keep mind blasting you.
Similarly, when Lia_black popped in with a early draft class, one of you immediately jumped in with something along the line of "Vital question: is psi magic", like it is some make-or-break fundamental property of a psi system, instead of a minor question that you can flip-flop on the answer to without affecting the design a all.
I said nothing about lead vs psi in past D&D rules.
What I said was:
Which is a statement about the common lore. Not even the D&D lore. What people in general think. How it works in fiction. I could be wrong, but bringing up the rules of past D&D to argue the point is a non-sequitur.
And even if I am wrong about it being a common belief, it's not so weird an idea that, if a psi system for D&D needed a prosaic means of blocking it, it's a perfectly reasonable choice.
Shapeshifting came into this by way of someone's ChatGPT answer including something to the effect that Psions should not be allowed to shapechange because that's a druid thing.
And that admonishment is not just being taken as important, but as unquestionable.
It's likely been in the conversation before that -- full control of the body is sometimes included in psi powers, and that can include shapechanging. Pretty sure it was in the mystic UA, but that was a weird conflation of at least two separate archetypes.
But yeah, probably.
That's... that's literally the point Kotath 🤨 If you want the mechanical advantage of casting all your powers without needing VSM components, there has to be a cost associated with that in order to balance it against spellcasting. How are you still not grasping this concept?
Alternatively, you can convert the entire magic system and worldbuilding to not need spell components, like Starfinder did, which would remove any balance concerns. But then you're not really playing 5e anymore. (Which is fine, other games exist and are fun, but my understanding was that you're trying to add this system the extant 5e framework.)
It's truly not that hard, especially for lower-level characters. The vast majority of spells that would enable casters to escape or circumvent incarceration need material components/foci (which can be confiscated), movement/speech (which can be restricted) and/or sight (which can be blocked.) And the designers designed those spells that way for a reason - because they put actual thought into the system they created that you seem determined to overlook for some reason.
Given that my own psionics don't appear to be effective over the internet, I can only evaluate the things that you say about your proposal, yes. And if you're not actually proposing anything, then tell me, where do we go from here?
What fiction is that? The most common inspirations for psionics that I'm aware of are things like HP Lovecraft, X-Men, Dune, maybe Wheel of Time if we want to get fancy. And of course chakras from various spiritual mythologies/religions that I don't think we can elaborate on here. Lead doesn't feature as a specific deterrent in any of them; all of the times I've seen lead come up in fiction, it's effective at blocking all magic, not just psionics. So where are you getting lead > psionics from?