Assuming you are a size medium creature, and your mount is large, you’ll have advantage on attacks against medium or smaller creatures while you are mounted. It will be campaign dependent, but how often will that come up, really? Particularly since you will only rarely, if ever, be able to be mounted inside, so you get no use from the feat then.
Defensively, the first failed dex save usually means the mount dies, even with the feat.
But I’m generally biased against mounted combat in this edition. Mounts have relatively few hp, which never scales, and barding is crazy expensive. Horses just die and die again.
Find Steed has this ability:
While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed.
Any good spells to target yourself and your mount and keep your mount up longer?
I'm not really worried about an optimal build. I want to build a character to a theme and make the best character I can within that theme. I'm pretty attached to the mounted concept, or at least to using a lance. Is there any other viable way to use a lance besides mounted? Disadvantage at 5 feet seems pretty limiting if you are in melee on foot.
As far as spells, you're going to need to talk to your DM. Mostly because of the stickiness of "targets only you." Does your table read that as can possibly only target you (range: self) or in practice you were the only creature actually targeted (range: touch and you target yourself) or a more broad reading (range 30 feet and you go 35 feet away from your allies so you are the only one targeted). I'm not trying to start that fight here, largely because what we say won't matter, what your DM says will, so make sure to talk with them about it.
That said: Some good spells with touch are things like heroism and protection from evil and good. Of course cure wounds, if you cast on yourself could help out an injured horse. Then there could be something like aid, where you could make your mount one of the three creatures. There's death ward if you ever get 4th level spells.
Then depending on you oath, there can be other fun stuff. I'm playing a halfling ancients paladin, so my character and his dog misty step all over the place. It actually helps with one of the Achilles' heels of mounts -- a ladder.
The other thing to work out with your DM generally is the mounted combat rules. If you are controlling the mount, it goes on your turn but can only dash, dodge or disengage, it can't attack. If you aren't controlling it, it can attack, but its going to go on its own initiative, so you may be sitting there with nothing to do while you wait for its turn, and then obviously, it will go where it wants, not necessarily where you want it to go. It's got a 6 int, and there's text that you're a "seamless unit" or something like that, but I read that as flavor text, not as meaning you can control it and it can still attack. This gets really important in how it might interact with the smite spells. They all have a range of self, so your mount would also benefit, so if the mount can attack, it can gain the benefit of the smite spell, which actually might make the spell as useful as the traditional smite. Any which way, better to be sure you agree on how it works before a fight starts so you don't end up frustrated with an on-the-fly ruling.
As far as lances, the only real solution is to also carry a sword (or axe or whatever, a normal melee weapon) for when you dismount, which as I understand is pretty much what mounted soldiers did. Not to mention that one day, you'll want a holy avenger, and those (RAW) only come in swords, not lances. You could go sposta's route, and take dual wielder, so you can have two lances, then when you get off, you switch to two swords. You don't really have a lot to do with your bonus action, so something that lets you get another chance to trigger a smite is a pretty solid choice, though pallys don't get the two weapon style, defense could help make up for the missing shield.
Assuming you are a size medium creature, and your mount is large, you’ll have advantage on attacks against medium or smaller creatures while you are mounted. It will be campaign dependent, but how often will that come up, really? Particularly since you will only rarely, if ever, be able to be mounted inside, so you get no use from the feat then.
Defensively, the first failed dex save usually means the mount dies, even with the feat.
But I’m generally biased against mounted combat in this edition. Mounts have relatively few hp, which never scales, and barding is crazy expensive. Horses just die and die again.
Find Steed has this ability:
While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed.
Any good spells to target yourself and your mount and keep your mount up longer?
I'm not really worried about an optimal build. I want to build a character to a theme and make the best character I can within that theme. I'm pretty attached to the mounted concept, or at least to using a lance. Is there any other viable way to use a lance besides mounted? Disadvantage at 5 feet seems pretty limiting if you are in melee on foot.
That said: Some good spells with touch are things like heroism and protection from evil and good.
Heroism seems pretty weak. It only soaks a few damage per round. By the time I can buy a mount or cast Find Steed, stuff is going to be dealing double-digit damage per round. And Heroism scales by targeting multiple creatures, which makes it not benefit from the Find Steed ability. It's concentration, and I think I would always prefer to use Bless. I can include my steed as a target of Bless, of course, at the cost of potentially not including one of my allies.
Protection from Evil and Good is a good one to use with this ability, though it's very situational.
Of course cure wounds, if you cast on yourself could help out an injured horse.
Thanks. For some reason I didn't imagine that counted. However, I find using Cure Wounds to keep a creature alive is rarely a good use of action economy. And the Find Steed steed disappears when it drops to 0 hp. No chance to heal it back from unconscious.
Then there could be something like aid, where you could make your mount one of the three creatures.
You can, but you gain no benefit from Find Steed's bonus targeting your mount, since the spell doesn't target only you.
There's death ward if you ever get 4th level spells.
Yeah, that could definitely be a good use. Getting two get out of jail free cards for the price of one is nice.
Then depending on you oath, there can be other fun stuff. I'm playing a halfling ancients paladin, so my character and his dog misty step all over the place. It actually helps with one of the Achilles' heels of mounts -- a ladder.
Oh, nice. Yeah I think I'll switch my oath. I wasn't really trying to be a druid-paladin, but I like that use of Misty Step a lot. Stoneskin is another one you could double up on your mount, and it would help keep it alive.
Between that and Aura of Warding, you and your mount would have resistance to just about everything.
The other thing to work out with your DM generally is the mounted combat rules. If you are controlling the mount, it goes on your turn but can only dash, dodge or disengage, it can't attack. If you aren't controlling it, it can attack, but its going to go on its own initiative, so you may be sitting there with nothing to do while you wait for its turn, and then obviously, it will go where it wants, not necessarily where you want it to go. It's got a 6 int, and there's text that you're a "seamless unit" or something like that, but I read that as flavor text, not as meaning you can control it and it can still attack. This gets really important in how it might interact with the smite spells. They all have a range of self, so your mount would also benefit, so if the mount can attack, it can gain the benefit of the smite spell, which actually might make the spell as useful as the traditional smite. Any which way, better to be sure you agree on how it works before a fight starts so you don't end up frustrated with an on-the-fly ruling.
I wouldn't expect my mount to be able to attack independently. I mean maybe when I get Find Greater Steed and am riding an Int 10 Pegasus. But even the extra Dash, Disengage, or Dodge action is pretty powerful. It lets me get out of melee without an opportunity attack so I can use my lance without disadvantage.
Assuming you are a size medium creature, and your mount is large, you’ll have advantage on attacks against medium or smaller creatures while you are mounted. It will be campaign dependent, but how often will that come up, really? Particularly since you will only rarely, if ever, be able to be mounted inside, so you get no use from the feat then.
Depends, I guess. If you are exploring dungeons constructed for humans, I guess you can't bring your horse in. But if it's a cave, maybe
One way around this issue would be just to play a small race with a medium mount. Since a Lance doesnt have the Heavy property, there wouldnt be any penalty to using one as a gnome or other small being. The only issue is that you basically lose all the advantage on attacks you would get from Mounted Combatant as its unlikely youd be fighting small or tiny creatures a majority of the time. So there would be a tradeoff
Doesn't really fit with the traditional knight in shining armor character archetype I'm going for.
I was going to do the quote thing, but the nesting would just get crazy.
The potentially bigger part of heroism is being immune to frightened. A scared horse will force you to dismount if you want to get closer to your enemy. Once you hit level 10, you'll be OK, but until then.
A big thing to consider is when you'd take the feat. At level 4, before you have the mount, or level 8 after you've had it for three levels. Though riding horses are pretty cheap, so you could probably have something fairly easily and get use of the feat earlier. Though as for one of the house rules you'd asked for, you could ask about giving the horse death saves. My understanding is generally that only PCs get them, but if they allow it for the mount, it becomes much more useful. This would only apply to a regular mount, of course, since the find steed just vanishes.
Maybe your DM will let you house rule laying hands on yourself to also heal the mount? Could get you some more utility from the ability, and it doesn't seem too game breaking.
And I'd check on the disengage. Personally, I'd rule if the mount were to disengage and move away, the enemy wouldn't get an OA on it, but they would still get one on you. Usually I just ride in on the dog, and have a standard agreement with my DM that unless I say otherwise it is dodging. Unfortunately, my campaign has lots of monsters with auras (take 10 hp if you start your turn in the area type thing) That kind of thing chews through my dog and its 5 hp right away, and eats up most mounts pretty quick. In retrospect, I should ride in, dismount and have it disengage and back away. I don't know why I never thought of that until now.
Another thing to consider is Pole Arm Master, but that's also going to need a DM ruling. If you have it, and are considered to be in all of the horse's four squares, then get your reach, and the OA for someone entering your reach, you can really lock down a huge area. But some DMs might also insist you pick a single square to be in for purposes of making that call. A glaive isn't quite a lance, but its kind of close if you squint. And then that also can give you something to do with your bonus action, and you don't need a second weapon for when you dismount.
And I'd check on the disengage. Personally, I'd rule if the mount were to disengage and move away, the enemy wouldn't get an OA on it, but they would still get one on you.
That is definitely not RAW. Opportunity attacks only apply when you use your own movement. "You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction." However, according to the rules of mounted combat, if someone gets an opportunity attack on the mount, they can instead decide to target you. But if the mount disengages, that doesn't apply.
Another thing to consider is Pole Arm Master, but that's also going to need a DM ruling. If you have it, and are considered to be in all of the horse's four squares, then get your reach, and the OA for someone entering your reach, you can really lock down a huge area. But some DMs might also insist you pick a single square to be in for purposes of making that call. A glaive isn't quite a lance, but its kind of close if you squint. And then that also can give you something to do with your bonus action, and you don't need a second weapon for when you dismount.
I don't think Polearm Master should apply to a lance, even though it is similar to a spear. All the weapons that work with Polearm Master are either two-handed or versatile, and in mounted form you can use a lance one-handed, which I would be doing with a shield equipped. It doesn't make sense that you can use the butt of a lance to strike one-handed.
Considering weapons you might want to talk to your DM about creating a home brew “short pike” that acts as a long spear when dismounted and as a lance when mounted. Keep in mind that both lances and pikes are specialized developments of the spear. I wouldn’t be surprised if your DM was even willing to generate a spear version of the holy avenger for you. You might also dream of getting a rod of lordly might which would give you the lance/spear as well as back up weapons.
Assuming you are a size medium creature, and your mount is large, you’ll have advantage on attacks against medium or smaller creatures while you are mounted. It will be campaign dependent, but how often will that come up, really? Particularly since you will only rarely, if ever, be able to be mounted inside, so you get no use from the feat then.
Defensively, the first failed dex save usually means the mount dies, even with the feat.
But I’m generally biased against mounted combat in this edition. Mounts have relatively few hp, which never scales, and barding is crazy expensive. Horses just die and die again.
Make the mount a sidekick? I've never done this, but it seems in the spirit of what the sidekick rules are trying to account for; and seems to fit the mold of what Pavillionaire wants in their character. A knight in shining armor bound for glory doesn't want a "mount". They want Shadowfax. The Lone Ranger gets Silver, etc.
That said, as a DM unless I was playing a game focused on knights on horseback or other mounted warriors sort of game focus, I'd be a little leery of a character concept where horsemanship is the spotlight around which it's being built around. The characters "thing" requires a specific environment and the DM literally has to give space for the character to really shine. Again, this can be fine if the DM is aware and willing to accommodate it. Otherwise you got the sort of scenario I remember some DM stuck with in some sci-fi game where the rest of the party were all these gritty fringy thieves, hackers, and gunfighters ... and there was also a mechajock who largely sat around while the rest of the party skulked around till the boss fight where the mechajock could Kool Aid Man through a Wall trope and end the fight (difference being, at least at early levels the knight and mount will likely be unable to Kool Aid Man through any Walls except the flimsiest). As pointed out, there are ways you can make the character devastating in damage dealt ... but you need the space to do it. I mean there are games where a starship captain may not be as skillful off ship, but at least they have transport for the rest of the party. In this instance, the mounted champ can take like one passenger. That last thought raises practical transport logistics. Now the rest of the party now needs mounts ... unless the character is the sort of tool who rides on horseback while the rest hoof it, also known as the party "that guy".
Basically I think the sidekick rules are something you could have fun with here, and works around the otherwise default mount lack of scalability, though this is definitely a character concept you want to make sure your DM is ready to integrate into a game. Like most dungeon crawling isn't suitable for mounted combatants, whereas a Underdark campaign could have space for spider or scorpion riders, toad or centipede cavalry, etc.
As for the dual wielding lances, I'm thinking of the Star Wars bounty hunter Durge in the first Clone wars cartoon. I don't know if it specifically dual wielded lances on its swoop, with a company of lance wielding, swoop-riding battle droids, but its the sort of character that makes the feat seem plausible, out there plausible, but plausible. Not quite rule of cool, but "RAW of ... ok, well then."
Heroism seems pretty weak. It only soaks a few damage per round. By the time I can buy a mount or cast Find Steed, stuff is going to be dealing double-digit damage per round. And Heroism scales by targeting multiple creatures, which makes it not benefit from the Find Steed ability. It's concentration, and I think I would always prefer to use Bless. I can include my steed as a target of Bless, of course, at the cost of potentially not including one of my allies.
Protection from Evil and Good is a good one to use with this ability, though it's very situational.
Thanks. For some reason I didn't imagine that counted. However, I find using Cure Wounds to keep a creature alive is rarely a good use of action economy. And the Find Steed steed disappears when it drops to 0 hp. No chance to heal it back from unconscious.
You can, but you gain no benefit from Find Steed's bonus targeting your mount, since the spell doesn't target only you.
Yeah, that could definitely be a good use. Getting two get out of jail free cards for the price of one is nice.
Oh, nice. Yeah I think I'll switch my oath. I wasn't really trying to be a druid-paladin, but I like that use of Misty Step a lot. Stoneskin is another one you could double up on your mount, and it would help keep it alive.
Between that and Aura of Warding, you and your mount would have resistance to just about everything.
I wouldn't expect my mount to be able to attack independently. I mean maybe when I get Find Greater Steed and am riding an Int 10 Pegasus. But even the extra Dash, Disengage, or Dodge action is pretty powerful. It lets me get out of melee without an opportunity attack so I can use my lance without disadvantage.
Doesn't really fit with the traditional knight in shining armor character archetype I'm going for.
I was going to do the quote thing, but the nesting would just get crazy.
The potentially bigger part of heroism is being immune to frightened. A scared horse will force you to dismount if you want to get closer to your enemy. Once you hit level 10, you'll be OK, but until then.
A big thing to consider is when you'd take the feat. At level 4, before you have the mount, or level 8 after you've had it for three levels. Though riding horses are pretty cheap, so you could probably have something fairly easily and get use of the feat earlier. Though as for one of the house rules you'd asked for, you could ask about giving the horse death saves. My understanding is generally that only PCs get them, but if they allow it for the mount, it becomes much more useful. This would only apply to a regular mount, of course, since the find steed just vanishes.
Maybe your DM will let you house rule laying hands on yourself to also heal the mount? Could get you some more utility from the ability, and it doesn't seem too game breaking.
And I'd check on the disengage. Personally, I'd rule if the mount were to disengage and move away, the enemy wouldn't get an OA on it, but they would still get one on you. Usually I just ride in on the dog, and have a standard agreement with my DM that unless I say otherwise it is dodging. Unfortunately, my campaign has lots of monsters with auras (take 10 hp if you start your turn in the area type thing) That kind of thing chews through my dog and its 5 hp right away, and eats up most mounts pretty quick. In retrospect, I should ride in, dismount and have it disengage and back away. I don't know why I never thought of that until now.
Another thing to consider is Pole Arm Master, but that's also going to need a DM ruling. If you have it, and are considered to be in all of the horse's four squares, then get your reach, and the OA for someone entering your reach, you can really lock down a huge area. But some DMs might also insist you pick a single square to be in for purposes of making that call. A glaive isn't quite a lance, but its kind of close if you squint. And then that also can give you something to do with your bonus action, and you don't need a second weapon for when you dismount.
That is definitely not RAW. Opportunity attacks only apply when you use your own movement. "You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction." However, according to the rules of mounted combat, if someone gets an opportunity attack on the mount, they can instead decide to target you. But if the mount disengages, that doesn't apply.
I don't think Polearm Master should apply to a lance, even though it is similar to a spear. All the weapons that work with Polearm Master are either two-handed or versatile, and in mounted form you can use a lance one-handed, which I would be doing with a shield equipped. It doesn't make sense that you can use the butt of a lance to strike one-handed.
Good point about the own movement. I hadn’t considered that.
I didn’t mean use a lance for PAM. I meant use a glaive and pretend it’s a lance.
Can do, but glaive is d10 and two-handed, whereas lance is d12 and can be used with a shield while mounted.
Considering weapons you might want to talk to your DM about creating a home brew “short pike” that acts as a long spear when dismounted and as a lance when mounted. Keep in mind that both lances and pikes are specialized developments of the spear. I wouldn’t be surprised if your DM was even willing to generate a spear version of the holy avenger for you. You might also dream of getting a rod of lordly might which would give you the lance/spear as well as back up weapons.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Make the mount a sidekick? I've never done this, but it seems in the spirit of what the sidekick rules are trying to account for; and seems to fit the mold of what Pavillionaire wants in their character. A knight in shining armor bound for glory doesn't want a "mount". They want Shadowfax. The Lone Ranger gets Silver, etc.
That said, as a DM unless I was playing a game focused on knights on horseback or other mounted warriors sort of game focus, I'd be a little leery of a character concept where horsemanship is the spotlight around which it's being built around. The characters "thing" requires a specific environment and the DM literally has to give space for the character to really shine. Again, this can be fine if the DM is aware and willing to accommodate it. Otherwise you got the sort of scenario I remember some DM stuck with in some sci-fi game where the rest of the party were all these gritty fringy thieves, hackers, and gunfighters ... and there was also a mechajock who largely sat around while the rest of the party skulked around till the boss fight where the mechajock could Kool Aid Man through a Wall trope and end the fight (difference being, at least at early levels the knight and mount will likely be unable to Kool Aid Man through any Walls except the flimsiest). As pointed out, there are ways you can make the character devastating in damage dealt ... but you need the space to do it. I mean there are games where a starship captain may not be as skillful off ship, but at least they have transport for the rest of the party. In this instance, the mounted champ can take like one passenger. That last thought raises practical transport logistics. Now the rest of the party now needs mounts ... unless the character is the sort of tool who rides on horseback while the rest hoof it, also known as the party "that guy".
Basically I think the sidekick rules are something you could have fun with here, and works around the otherwise default mount lack of scalability, though this is definitely a character concept you want to make sure your DM is ready to integrate into a game. Like most dungeon crawling isn't suitable for mounted combatants, whereas a Underdark campaign could have space for spider or scorpion riders, toad or centipede cavalry, etc.
As for the dual wielding lances, I'm thinking of the Star Wars bounty hunter Durge in the first Clone wars cartoon. I don't know if it specifically dual wielded lances on its swoop, with a company of lance wielding, swoop-riding battle droids, but its the sort of character that makes the feat seem plausible, out there plausible, but plausible. Not quite rule of cool, but "RAW of ... ok, well then."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.