Judging from what I've read in the books etc, the rarity of an item doesn't so much describe how often you will come across it, so much as when you will. Common items are things that L1s will come across, but you don't want them getting their mittens on what are described as Legendary items. I certainly won't be spamming my late level parties with Common items just to justify that one Legendary item that I'll be dropping them. The frequency of items won't probably change, just the makeup - fewer Commons and Uncommons, and more Rares and Very Rares, with sprinkling of Legendary. Commons and Uncommons will be there just to troll them.
But isn't that just frequency by another name? Surely there are more "low level" characters in the world than "high level" characters. If low level characters are encountering common and uncommon magic items at the same rate per-character as high level characters are encountering rare items, that means there are more common and uncommon items to be found.
1) Given how easy it is to make some magic items, such as scrolls and how much in demand they are, weekly auctions is VERY reasonable. Moreover, if magic items come up for sale rarely the more likely they would set up a private auction immediately (as in you wait no more than a month) if someone wants to sell. Basically, the rules of capitalism make sure that auctions will either be very common, or set up instantly when you want to sell.
2) Outlawed = a gift to the criminal underworld. Go ask Al Capone how effective Prohibition was on alcohol.
Given the rules that only require money and time to make magic items, there is no reasonable world where it is hard to sell magic items, nor would there be one where it is hard to buy low end magic items. If you want to make magic stores rare, you really need to make the manufacture of magic items more difficult. Special ingredients, etc. But as long as priests can make potions of healing and wizards can make scrolls and spellbooks with just ink, then magic items will be available for sale, if only in criminal locations
Pricing on the other hand can easily be abused by the DM. I could see a situation where various fees make it cost a lot to sell, and the DM can totally raise the prices as they desire.
Pricing on the other hand can easily be abused by the DM. I could see a situation where various fees make it cost a lot to sell, and the DM can totally raise the prices as they desire.
That only works if there's an enforced monopoly on production. And it pretty much guarantees a black market since adventurers are generally Chaotic types who don't like paying excessive fees and taxes if they can get around it.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It is a question of whether the rarities are literal rarities or whether they represent the distribution amongst any hypothetical cache of items.
No, it really doesn't have anything to do with that. You don't generally get retail storefronts for things that are extremely expensive whether or not they're common. Look at houses. Lots of them out there, but that doesn't mean finding and buying one is a simple transaction.
It is a question of whether the rarities are literal rarities or whether they represent the distribution amongst any hypothetical cache of items.
No, it really doesn't have anything to do with that. You don't generally get retail storefronts for things that are extremely expensive whether or not they're common. Look at houses. Lots of them out there, but that doesn't mean finding and buying one is a simple transaction.
Iphone, Televisions, high end Computers, etc etc... all around 1000$ or more. Every town and city will have some. Median income for a household in the US is around 5.500 $ a month. Do you need these things every month? No, but demand is high enough to have enough shops to find one without too much bother. And when you go to the large cities you can find the more expensive brands that will cost more than the standard ones. And then we are not talking about the design shops that sell items that will cost you an arm and a leg if you're not an 1% er. Expensive jewellery shops, the list goes on.
It is a question of whether the rarities are literal rarities or whether they represent the distribution amongst any hypothetical cache of items.
No, it really doesn't have anything to do with that. You don't generally get retail storefronts for things that are extremely expensive whether or not they're common. Look at houses. Lots of them out there, but that doesn't mean finding and buying one is a simple transaction.
Iphone, Televisions, high end Computers, etc etc... all around 1000$ or more. Every town and city will have some. Median income for a household in the US is around 5.500 $ a month. Do you need these things every month? No, but demand is high enough to have enough shops to find one without too much bother. And when you go to the large cities you can find the more expensive brands that will cost more than the standard ones. And then we are not talking about the design shops that sell items that will cost you an arm and a leg if you're not an 1% er. Expensive jewellery shops, the list goes on.
Also buying a house, if you are a cash buyer it is a very simple transaction. It only becomes more convoluted if you are trying to get a mortgage, in the UK at least that then leads to searches and verification that what you are buying is worth the money you are spending on it. If it's just you and a suitcase full of cash you can buy and sell a house in less than a day.
Also if we are talking about Exandria, moving away from universities there are magic shops throughout the world, in fact one sorcerer NPC was creating a chain of magic shops. Exandria is in no way a high magic realm but there where magic shops in all major cities and even some smaller towns. This is now an official WOTC setting and so RAW there is a setting which is mid magic but has a raft of magic item shops throughout the world.
One shop, the Invulnerable Vagrant it's owner Pumat Sol works for the Cerberus Assembly creating magical items which they purchase, but he also sells excess magical items to travellers and adventurers. He has 3 Simulacra who work with him and I imagine support him in creating magic items.
There seems to be an obsession with equating magic item creation to factory shop production and why would a wizard just have a production line. I view it as more akin to an artist who sells their own work, each piece is an individual item that takes time effort and skill to produce, but the ultimate reason for producing them is to sell them and make an income. A painting might take 5 weeks to complete, and then be sold for £2000. You can equate that to a wizard spending time making a +1 sword, or a +1 shield, or a ruby of the warmage, or a cloak of elvenkind and consider the magic shop as a commercial gallery, items are not auctioned off but have a price tag. Even consider the shop, like a commercial gallery, as being owned by a 3rd party who sells items created by various mages on their behalf and takes a commission for each sale.
There is another thread with a general concensus that 1gp = about $100. So a 50gp standard health potion costs the equivalent of $5000, most people would either have a poor or modest lifestyle so income in the region of $7500 to $37000 per annum so magic items are well out the range of the general populous, fine art is a decent comparison.
I would see most magic items being made by commission, you go to an artist or their agent describe what you want and collect it a few weeks or months later. There will be items available for immediate sale either at a gallery or auction but you will not be able to get exactly what you want, you may want a painting by Turner but all that is available is one by Constable.
Large towns and small cities will have art galleries but if you want items that cost $10000 or more you are likely only to have any luck in the largest cities.
In a low magic world magic items except maybe a handful that can make low level consumbles, are so expensive that only governments can afford them. You can not buy a spaceship or aircraft carrier not because they are banned but because noone can afford them..
Worth noting, for this whole "magic item trade needs to be super restricted, difficult, time-consuming, and otherwise ultra-punitive so players never do it" debate.
Eberron is frequently described as a "high magic" world. Keith Baker himself, the writer who created it, disagrees. He calls Eberron a world of 'wide magic', where magic is understood as a science and a rigorous discipline and its effects are widespread. Magic items are not an entirely separate class of items - magically-boosted objects are simply considered the highest end of their respective crafting disciplines. A wizard doesn't craft a set of clothes of mending, a tailor does. You need an excellent tailor, one who's put a lot of effort into mastering their craft, to make those clothes, because the tailor has to learn bits of magic themself to do so. They are, however, still a tailor, not a wizard.
Even commoners in Eberron can usually claim a small handful of common magical items. Those items are often family heirlooms, and common magic items often come in very different grades without affecting their essential functionality. The everbright lantern owned by a farming family is a simple construction of cheap, square brass plates and foggy glass, while the same everbright lantern owned by a nobleman would be a beautiful, elaborate construction of filligreed silver and finest glass. The one is drastically more expensive than the other due to the craftsmanship involved, but they're still fundamentally the same item. Common items can be produced by proto-industrial assembly lines, a horde of low-level artificers or magecraftsmen under the direction of House Cannith. Uncommon items require the attention of high-level craftsmen or carefully curated and supervised processes, but can still be produced. Rare and up tend to be beyond easy construction by Cannith artificers and are either relics of older, more accomplished species or the one-off creations of individual skilled craftsmen.
It is, frankly, far and away the most realistic interpretation of a magical society I've ever seen of D&D. You absolutely can find magic items in shops, but there are no 'magic item shops'. If you want magical clothing? Find a good tailor. If you want magical adventuring gear? Find a reputable outfitter. Heh, hell - a low-key hobby of mine in D&D is creating new common magical items for The Journeying Man, the outfitter's chain that serves as a primary source of adventuring gear in my games. Most of my Journeying Man magic items are things players find little use for, but which a well-to-do non-adventuring traveler would find invaluable. Enchanted socks that shed water to stay warm and dry no matter the conditions and which slow down the formation of blisters. A traveler's pack that helps carry its own contents, reducing their weight by half. A pouch that keeps road snacks fresh and preserved for five times longer than usual. A short iron rod that can heat up and ignite torches or campfires with just a word.
Even just the presence of such items in the world lend it a sense of verisimilitude and depth many other games lack, and players are occasionally really excited by something The Journeying Man sells. Items in TJM rarely range above a hundred gold outside of the Special Stock, but it's still a fixture in my games. Is it a shop? Yes. Does it sell magic items? Yes. Is it a magic item shop? No. It's an outfitter than just so happens to have magical equipment useful to travelers and outdoorsmen available for sale.
Why is that so absolutely gobsmack-awful game-shatteringly terrible?
Also if we are talking about Exandria, moving away from universities there are magic shops throughout the world, in fact one sorcerer NPC was creating a chain of magic shops. Exandria is in no way a high magic realm but there where magic shops in all major cities and even some smaller towns. This is now an official WOTC setting and so RAW there is a setting which is mid magic but has a raft of magic item shops throughout the world.
One shop, the Invulnerable Vagrant it's owner Pumat Sol works for the Cerberus Assembly creating magical items which they purchase, but he also sells excess magical items to travellers and adventurers. He has 3 Simulacra who work with him and I imagine support him in creating magic items.
There seems to be an obsession with equating magic item creation to factory shop production and why would a wizard just have a production line. I view it as more akin to an artist who sells their own work, each piece is an individual item that takes time effort and skill to produce, but the ultimate reason for producing them is to sell them and make an income. A painting might take 5 weeks to complete, and then be sold for £2000. You can equate that to a wizard spending time making a +1 sword, or a +1 shield, or a ruby of the warmage, or a cloak of elvenkind and consider the magic shop as a commercial gallery, items are not auctioned off but have a price tag. Even consider the shop, like a commercial gallery, as being owned by a 3rd party who sells items created by various mages on their behalf and takes a commission for each sale.
Now we are talking about Mercer's world as if it is somehow RAW or official.
Paintings might take 5 weeks to complete, but they do not need spleen from a crying gryphon or powdered forearm from a specific non-summon-able type of Earth elemental.
Painting value is based on painter skill, something that there is no equivalent factor for in enchanting. Skill is not treated as the main limiter but rather parts supply.
Paintings also have no strategic value so are not likely regulated by the state.
I don't know how much more 'canon' you can get than having an entire official Wizards of the Coast setting book dedicated to your world. On top of an entire dedicated adventure book, to boot. In that way, Exandria is more canon than Eberron - in 5e, Exandria is the second most published official setting after the Forgotten Realms default.
As for 'spleen of a crying gryphon' and the like? I could see that a particular magical item needs 'metal from the stars, immune to mortal flame, forged before time began in the heart of a dying sun and buried for uncounted eons in the depths of a mountain'. Or I could say it needs tungsten. One of those, players would accept without question as a Legit Magical Ingredient. The other would get me Infinite Fry Meming. Thing is? They're both exactly the same thing. In a world where sympathetic magic is real, you don't think people would find ways to invent sympathetic links they could create/manufacture, and favor items that could be created with those links instead of the exotic weird stuff it takes DM fiat to ever get working? I hear "this item needs you to obtain blood from a gryphon slain at the stroke of midnight by those it consideres friends" and to me, that's DM speak for "I'm not letting you do this so don't try, and if you do I'm going to make sure you regret it." Which just feels disingenuous and unkind.
Just tell players "you can get whatever magic items I roll up for you in the dungeons of the world. Don't try and get any others, it won't end well" from the start. It's easier for everyone to know going in what to expect in terms of enchanted gear.
Also if we are talking about Exandria, moving away from universities there are magic shops throughout the world, in fact one sorcerer NPC was creating a chain of magic shops. Exandria is in no way a high magic realm but there where magic shops in all major cities and even some smaller towns. This is now an official WOTC setting and so RAW there is a setting which is mid magic but has a raft of magic item shops throughout the world.
One shop, the Invulnerable Vagrant it's owner Pumat Sol works for the Cerberus Assembly creating magical items which they purchase, but he also sells excess magical items to travellers and adventurers. He has 3 Simulacra who work with him and I imagine support him in creating magic items.
There seems to be an obsession with equating magic item creation to factory shop production and why would a wizard just have a production line. I view it as more akin to an artist who sells their own work, each piece is an individual item that takes time effort and skill to produce, but the ultimate reason for producing them is to sell them and make an income. A painting might take 5 weeks to complete, and then be sold for £2000. You can equate that to a wizard spending time making a +1 sword, or a +1 shield, or a ruby of the warmage, or a cloak of elvenkind and consider the magic shop as a commercial gallery, items are not auctioned off but have a price tag. Even consider the shop, like a commercial gallery, as being owned by a 3rd party who sells items created by various mages on their behalf and takes a commission for each sale.
Now we are talking about Mercer's world as if it is somehow RAW or official.
Paintings might take 5 weeks to complete, but they do not need spleen from a crying gryphon or powdered forearm from a specific non-summon-able type of Earth elemental.
Painting value is based on painter skill, something that there is no equivalent factor for in enchanting. Skill is not treated as the main limiter but rather parts supply.
Paintings also have no strategic value so are not likely regulated by the state.
I don't know how much more 'canon' you can get than having an entire official Wizards of the Coast setting book dedicated to your world. On top of an entire dedicated adventure book, to boot. In that way, Exandria is more canon than Eberron - in 5e, Exandria is the second most published official setting after the Forgotten Realms default.
As for 'spleen of a crying gryphon' and the like? I could see that a particular magical item needs 'metal from the stars, immune to mortal flame, forged before time began in the heart of a dying sun and buried for uncounted eons in the depths of a mountain'. Or I could say it needs tungsten. One of those, players would accept without question as a Legit Magical Ingredient. The other would get me Infinite Fry Meming. Thing is? They're both exactly the same thing. In a world where sympathetic magic is real, you don't think people would find ways to invent sympathetic links they could create/manufacture, and favor items that could be created with those links instead of the exotic weird stuff it takes DM fiat to ever get working? I hear "this item needs you to obtain blood from a gryphon slain at the stroke of midnight by those it consideres friends" and to me, that's DM speak for "I'm not letting you do this so don't try, and if you do I'm going to make sure you regret it." Which just feels disingenuous and unkind.
Just tell players "you can get whatever magic items I roll up for you in the dungeons of the world. Don't try and get any others, it won't end well" from the start. It's easier for everyone to know going in what to expect in terms of enchanted gear.
I would also say that +1 weapons and armour and the majority of common magic items, dont need amazingly rare special components. Just as many many spells Dont need rare components to be cast.
@Yurei1453 - I think a really large number of gaming groups would be happier playing in Eberron than in the Forgotten Realms. This (magic item availability, that is) is far from the only subject on which people have strong opinions that happen to be Eberron opinions. I mean, look at how Eberron handles orcs... Or gods... Or the undead... Or guns! But it's hard to get people to branch out or convert. I mean, I own a PDF of the original setting and I have the 5e book, and I still haven't really looked at Eberron. And I know I'd like it! And I'm playing a Warforged!!
Between Exandria, Eberron, and wonderful third-party products like Grim Hollow or the delightful new Fool's Gold/Bellowing Wilds book coming out in Kickstarter (go check it out if you haven't, especially if you like high-level content tuned to kick your players' asses), if is indeed fully my intent to never run a game in Vaguely Maybe-Faerun ever again. I am spoiled for choice for settings I like much better than the worn-out shambling zombie corpse of the Forgotten Realms, with its ten thousand hyper-obscure gods and its fifty straight years of absolutely impenetrable 'lore' and its tangles of demi-history even a real-life political science major couldn't properly unravel.
Doesn't mean I can't participate in forum discussions though, hm? I think many DMs handle magical loot poorly in general, primarily because the DMG is schizophrenic as hell in talking about it. I've pointed out why - the game's core rules make multiple completely contradictory assumptions before telling the DM "figure it out your own-ass self, we aren't even gonna bother trying to help." Hell, most of that Cool Ass Shit from Eberron? It's in Exploring Eberron, Keith Baker's DMGuild follow-up/companion to the official Eberron book. EE is better than RftLW in almost every way and is essential for people serious about running Eberron, beeteedubs.
The core books do an absolutely terrible job of preparing a DM to actually DM. On this issue and many others. Perhaps that's something we'll see fixed in 2024, but I doubt it.
@Yurei1453 - I think a really large number of gaming groups would be happier playing in Eberron than in the Forgotten Realms.
Honestly, I don't think either one is a terribly good gaming setting, in both settings you usually have to actively ignore a bunch of NPC groups to create room for the PCs. In terms of making sure there's actually room for the PCs to create their own adventures and actually be the big heroes, I'm a bit fond of Nentir Vale (4e), though a lot of that is probably because it didn't last long enough to get filled out so there's huge gaps where you can conveniently fit your own stories.
This exists, so I guess Magic, the Gathering rules are also 5e RAW now? Who knew? Guess even martial classes need to tap mana to attack now....
Seriously, you are really stretching the definitions of RAW here.
I wouldn't go with the term RAW myself (and haven't). Setting details aren't part of a ruleset. The stores are canon in an official setting sourcebook published by WotC though (the Vagrant at least; Gilmore's is in the Tal'Dorei book, which is third party). I thought you were looking for examples of magical shops in Exandria though. Gilmore's is the upscale private one, where all up to and including very rare items can be bought, as well as one or two legendary ones. The Vagrant is an annex of the Cerberus Academy and because of the war effort requiring deliveries to the Crownsguard take priority Pumat Sol usually only has a handful or so items in stock and custom orders can take some time to fill.
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I don't know how much more 'canon' you can get than having an entire official Wizards of the Coast setting book dedicated to your world. On top of an entire dedicated adventure book, to boot. In that way, Exandria is more canon than Eberron - in 5e, Exandria is the second most published official setting after the Forgotten Realms default.
As for 'spleen of a crying gryphon' and the like? I could see that a particular magical item needs 'metal from the stars, immune to mortal flame, forged before time began in the heart of a dying sun and buried for uncounted eons in the depths of a mountain'. Or I could say it needs tungsten. One of those, players would accept without question as a Legit Magical Ingredient. The other would get me Infinite Fry Meming. Thing is? They're both exactly the same thing. In a world where sympathetic magic is real, you don't think people would find ways to invent sympathetic links they could create/manufacture, and favor items that could be created with those links instead of the exotic weird stuff it takes DM fiat to ever get working? I hear "this item needs you to obtain blood from a gryphon slain at the stroke of midnight by those it consideres friends" and to me, that's DM speak for "I'm not letting you do this so don't try, and if you do I'm going to make sure you regret it." Which just feels disingenuous and unkind.
Just tell players "you can get whatever magic items I roll up for you in the dungeons of the world. Don't try and get any others, it won't end well" from the start. It's easier for everyone to know going in what to expect in terms of enchanted gear.
Is RAW? So every campaign is expected to use every setting? Please.... at best it is an optional RAW.
And can you please point out to me where in the Magic Items of Wildemount section it has any mention of magic shops as a place to obtain magic items? Because strangely, I am not seeing any such statement. It mentions buyers, but no sellers, other than as occasional quest rewards.
And your bottom line continues the disingenuous garbage you keep spouting. First of all, whether it is from a 'dungeon' (players in your campaigns routinely raid prisons? Really? Why would there be a ton of valuables in prisons?) or from a shop, the DM still decides what is available.
Second, I have pointed out ways PC's can get the items they want. Ways that actually drive plot rather than bypass it.
And yes, you can run a campaign where real world material names replace traditional 'fantasy' material names. However, if the only source of tungsten is meteorites, then you still have to go out and find a meteorite. If it is mined, those mines have strategic value and are likely owned and controlled by the king. Or you can make tungsten incredibly common. But if you are making materials common, then you are back to a high powered/high magic campaign.
And again, there is nothing wrong with that, if you want to run that kind of campaign. So where, exactly, is your problem?
I think the main point of disagreement i have with you is an insistance that magic shops must = High magic, it really does not, I have explained a number of ways that logically a low magic setting could still have magic shops within it. items like the common magic items in Xanathars (cloak of Billowing etc) could very easily be produced without needing "exotic hard to find items", Even the more common weapons, a plus 1 sword, a bag of holding, vicious dagger, or a cap of water breathing really probably need very few special items. You could say a +1 sword must be made from the highest quality metal engraved with specific symbols that will then hold the magic of the enchantment, in which case your saying the Enchanter must know a very good blacksmith and the act of making the sword involves them working in tandem.
If you don't want magic shops in your world that is a perfectly acceptable way to do it, but don't try and insist that a DM can't have magic shops and be low magic, that makes new DM's think they are doing their own game wrong when there might be a perfectly viable in game explanation for how a magic shop exists. In my world Magic Items are akin to works of art, Wizards and other enchanters create items in a small number each year to sell to make an income because Wizard gotta eat, and not everyone wants to go fight a dragon and plunder it's horde and a wizard can't really make money curing wounds and helping the sick. In addition in my Wizard schools and universities training wizards are required on some courses to enchant various magic items to demonstrate they have the required skills to join the guild, on doing so those items are sold and the proceeds equals the guild joining fee. This does not mean harry the farmer can get a +1 sword because that sword is very expensive in comparison to his annual income.
If a wizard in one shop doesn't have what you want, then they might reach out and see if they can source it elsewhere, or they might let you commission a unique item and price it accordingly, with the price reduced if you are able to provide any exotic components. only the rich can buy such items, and, not all things bought are magical weapons, I had one noble commission a 40,000 gp fountain that was entirely magical, with magical fish and birds that never left, and water that was always crystal clear and danced to music (imagine the fountains on the Vegas strip). this he considered a far better demonstration of his wealth then having some stuffy sword hanging on a wall.
Another example is having a world that has just 1 seller of magic items, a wizard family who own 1 warehouse (that exists in a different pocket plane) they have multiple shops in the world, but in actuality on entering the shop you call a representative to appear behind the counter from this pocket dimension. Within that warehouse is every single magic item in the game, all available to buy, some at extremely high prices. but the family maintain how many magic items are in the world of each type ensuring they never reduce the value of their own stock by swamping the market. That can be a very low magic setting with a magic shop in every city.
But isn't that just frequency by another name? Surely there are more "low level" characters in the world than "high level" characters. If low level characters are encountering common and uncommon magic items at the same rate per-character as high level characters are encountering rare items, that means there are more common and uncommon items to be found.
1) Given how easy it is to make some magic items, such as scrolls and how much in demand they are, weekly auctions is VERY reasonable. Moreover, if magic items come up for sale rarely the more likely they would set up a private auction immediately (as in you wait no more than a month) if someone wants to sell. Basically, the rules of capitalism make sure that auctions will either be very common, or set up instantly when you want to sell.
2) Outlawed = a gift to the criminal underworld. Go ask Al Capone how effective Prohibition was on alcohol.
Given the rules that only require money and time to make magic items, there is no reasonable world where it is hard to sell magic items, nor would there be one where it is hard to buy low end magic items. If you want to make magic stores rare, you really need to make the manufacture of magic items more difficult. Special ingredients, etc. But as long as priests can make potions of healing and wizards can make scrolls and spellbooks with just ink, then magic items will be available for sale, if only in criminal locations
Pricing on the other hand can easily be abused by the DM. I could see a situation where various fees make it cost a lot to sell, and the DM can totally raise the prices as they desire.
That only works if there's an enforced monopoly on production. And it pretty much guarantees a black market since adventurers are generally Chaotic types who don't like paying excessive fees and taxes if they can get around it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
No, it really doesn't have anything to do with that. You don't generally get retail storefronts for things that are extremely expensive whether or not they're common. Look at houses. Lots of them out there, but that doesn't mean finding and buying one is a simple transaction.
Iphone, Televisions, high end Computers, etc etc... all around 1000$ or more. Every town and city will have some. Median income for a household in the US is around 5.500 $ a month. Do you need these things every month? No, but demand is high enough to have enough shops to find one without too much bother. And when you go to the large cities you can find the more expensive brands that will cost more than the standard ones. And then we are not talking about the design shops that sell items that will cost you an arm and a leg if you're not an 1% er. Expensive jewellery shops, the list goes on.
Also buying a house, if you are a cash buyer it is a very simple transaction. It only becomes more convoluted if you are trying to get a mortgage, in the UK at least that then leads to searches and verification that what you are buying is worth the money you are spending on it. If it's just you and a suitcase full of cash you can buy and sell a house in less than a day.
Also if we are talking about Exandria, moving away from universities there are magic shops throughout the world, in fact one sorcerer NPC was creating a chain of magic shops. Exandria is in no way a high magic realm but there where magic shops in all major cities and even some smaller towns. This is now an official WOTC setting and so RAW there is a setting which is mid magic but has a raft of magic item shops throughout the world.
One shop, the Invulnerable Vagrant it's owner Pumat Sol works for the Cerberus Assembly creating magical items which they purchase, but he also sells excess magical items to travellers and adventurers. He has 3 Simulacra who work with him and I imagine support him in creating magic items.
There seems to be an obsession with equating magic item creation to factory shop production and why would a wizard just have a production line. I view it as more akin to an artist who sells their own work, each piece is an individual item that takes time effort and skill to produce, but the ultimate reason for producing them is to sell them and make an income. A painting might take 5 weeks to complete, and then be sold for £2000. You can equate that to a wizard spending time making a +1 sword, or a +1 shield, or a ruby of the warmage, or a cloak of elvenkind and consider the magic shop as a commercial gallery, items are not auctioned off but have a price tag. Even consider the shop, like a commercial gallery, as being owned by a 3rd party who sells items created by various mages on their behalf and takes a commission for each sale.
There is another thread with a general concensus that 1gp = about $100. So a 50gp standard health potion costs the equivalent of $5000, most people would either have a poor or modest lifestyle so income in the region of $7500 to $37000 per annum so magic items are well out the range of the general populous, fine art is a decent comparison.
I would see most magic items being made by commission, you go to an artist or their agent describe what you want and collect it a few weeks or months later. There will be items available for immediate sale either at a gallery or auction but you will not be able to get exactly what you want, you may want a painting by Turner but all that is available is one by Constable.
Large towns and small cities will have art galleries but if you want items that cost $10000 or more you are likely only to have any luck in the largest cities.
In a low magic world magic items except maybe a handful that can make low level consumbles, are so expensive that only governments can afford them. You can not buy a spaceship or aircraft carrier not because they are banned but because noone can afford them..
Worth noting, for this whole "magic item trade needs to be super restricted, difficult, time-consuming, and otherwise ultra-punitive so players never do it" debate.
Eberron is frequently described as a "high magic" world. Keith Baker himself, the writer who created it, disagrees. He calls Eberron a world of 'wide magic', where magic is understood as a science and a rigorous discipline and its effects are widespread. Magic items are not an entirely separate class of items - magically-boosted objects are simply considered the highest end of their respective crafting disciplines. A wizard doesn't craft a set of clothes of mending, a tailor does. You need an excellent tailor, one who's put a lot of effort into mastering their craft, to make those clothes, because the tailor has to learn bits of magic themself to do so. They are, however, still a tailor, not a wizard.
Even commoners in Eberron can usually claim a small handful of common magical items. Those items are often family heirlooms, and common magic items often come in very different grades without affecting their essential functionality. The everbright lantern owned by a farming family is a simple construction of cheap, square brass plates and foggy glass, while the same everbright lantern owned by a nobleman would be a beautiful, elaborate construction of filligreed silver and finest glass. The one is drastically more expensive than the other due to the craftsmanship involved, but they're still fundamentally the same item. Common items can be produced by proto-industrial assembly lines, a horde of low-level artificers or magecraftsmen under the direction of House Cannith. Uncommon items require the attention of high-level craftsmen or carefully curated and supervised processes, but can still be produced. Rare and up tend to be beyond easy construction by Cannith artificers and are either relics of older, more accomplished species or the one-off creations of individual skilled craftsmen.
It is, frankly, far and away the most realistic interpretation of a magical society I've ever seen of D&D. You absolutely can find magic items in shops, but there are no 'magic item shops'. If you want magical clothing? Find a good tailor. If you want magical adventuring gear? Find a reputable outfitter. Heh, hell - a low-key hobby of mine in D&D is creating new common magical items for The Journeying Man, the outfitter's chain that serves as a primary source of adventuring gear in my games. Most of my Journeying Man magic items are things players find little use for, but which a well-to-do non-adventuring traveler would find invaluable. Enchanted socks that shed water to stay warm and dry no matter the conditions and which slow down the formation of blisters. A traveler's pack that helps carry its own contents, reducing their weight by half. A pouch that keeps road snacks fresh and preserved for five times longer than usual. A short iron rod that can heat up and ignite torches or campfires with just a word.
Even just the presence of such items in the world lend it a sense of verisimilitude and depth many other games lack, and players are occasionally really excited by something The Journeying Man sells. Items in TJM rarely range above a hundred gold outside of the Special Stock, but it's still a fixture in my games. Is it a shop? Yes. Does it sell magic items? Yes. Is it a magic item shop? No. It's an outfitter than just so happens to have magical equipment useful to travelers and outdoorsmen available for sale.
Why is that so absolutely gobsmack-awful game-shatteringly terrible?
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Exandria IS official.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Exsqueeze.
Exandria is, indeed, RAW and canon.
I don't know how much more 'canon' you can get than having an entire official Wizards of the Coast setting book dedicated to your world. On top of an entire dedicated adventure book, to boot. In that way, Exandria is more canon than Eberron - in 5e, Exandria is the second most published official setting after the Forgotten Realms default.
As for 'spleen of a crying gryphon' and the like? I could see that a particular magical item needs 'metal from the stars, immune to mortal flame, forged before time began in the heart of a dying sun and buried for uncounted eons in the depths of a mountain'. Or I could say it needs tungsten. One of those, players would accept without question as a Legit Magical Ingredient. The other would get me Infinite Fry Meming. Thing is? They're both exactly the same thing. In a world where sympathetic magic is real, you don't think people would find ways to invent sympathetic links they could create/manufacture, and favor items that could be created with those links instead of the exotic weird stuff it takes DM fiat to ever get working? I hear "this item needs you to obtain blood from a gryphon slain at the stroke of midnight by those it consideres friends" and to me, that's DM speak for "I'm not letting you do this so don't try, and if you do I'm going to make sure you regret it." Which just feels disingenuous and unkind.
Just tell players "you can get whatever magic items I roll up for you in the dungeons of the world. Don't try and get any others, it won't end well" from the start. It's easier for everyone to know going in what to expect in terms of enchanted gear.
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https://dnd.wizards.com/products/call-netherdeep It is canon. I was as surprised as you a few weeks back when certain persons pointed this out to me.
I would also say that +1 weapons and armour and the majority of common magic items, dont need amazingly rare special components. Just as many many spells Dont need rare components to be cast.
@Yurei1453 - I think a really large number of gaming groups would be happier playing in Eberron than in the Forgotten Realms. This (magic item availability, that is) is far from the only subject on which people have strong opinions that happen to be Eberron opinions. I mean, look at how Eberron handles orcs... Or gods... Or the undead... Or guns! But it's hard to get people to branch out or convert. I mean, I own a PDF of the original setting and I have the 5e book, and I still haven't really looked at Eberron. And I know I'd like it! And I'm playing a Warforged!!
Between Exandria, Eberron, and wonderful third-party products like Grim Hollow or the delightful new Fool's Gold/Bellowing Wilds book coming out in Kickstarter (go check it out if you haven't, especially if you like high-level content tuned to kick your players' asses), if is indeed fully my intent to never run a game in Vaguely Maybe-Faerun ever again. I am spoiled for choice for settings I like much better than the worn-out shambling zombie corpse of the Forgotten Realms, with its ten thousand hyper-obscure gods and its fifty straight years of absolutely impenetrable 'lore' and its tangles of demi-history even a real-life political science major couldn't properly unravel.
Doesn't mean I can't participate in forum discussions though, hm? I think many DMs handle magical loot poorly in general, primarily because the DMG is schizophrenic as hell in talking about it. I've pointed out why - the game's core rules make multiple completely contradictory assumptions before telling the DM "figure it out your own-ass self, we aren't even gonna bother trying to help." Hell, most of that Cool Ass Shit from Eberron? It's in Exploring Eberron, Keith Baker's DMGuild follow-up/companion to the official Eberron book. EE is better than RftLW in almost every way and is essential for people serious about running Eberron, beeteedubs.
The core books do an absolutely terrible job of preparing a DM to actually DM. On this issue and many others. Perhaps that's something we'll see fixed in 2024, but I doubt it.
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Honestly, I don't think either one is a terribly good gaming setting, in both settings you usually have to actively ignore a bunch of NPC groups to create room for the PCs. In terms of making sure there's actually room for the PCs to create their own adventures and actually be the big heroes, I'm a bit fond of Nentir Vale (4e), though a lot of that is probably because it didn't last long enough to get filled out so there's huge gaps where you can conveniently fit your own stories.
You're doing it again. The point being CR is canon/RAW now.
https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Gilmore's_Glorious_Goods
https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/The_Invulnerable_Vagrant
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I wouldn't go with the term RAW myself (and haven't). Setting details aren't part of a ruleset. The stores are canon in an official setting sourcebook published by WotC though (the Vagrant at least; Gilmore's is in the Tal'Dorei book, which is third party). I thought you were looking for examples of magical shops in Exandria though. Gilmore's is the upscale private one, where all up to and including very rare items can be bought, as well as one or two legendary ones. The Vagrant is an annex of the Cerberus Academy and because of the war effort requiring deliveries to the Crownsguard take priority Pumat Sol usually only has a handful or so items in stock and custom orders can take some time to fill.
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I think the main point of disagreement i have with you is an insistance that magic shops must = High magic, it really does not, I have explained a number of ways that logically a low magic setting could still have magic shops within it. items like the common magic items in Xanathars (cloak of Billowing etc) could very easily be produced without needing "exotic hard to find items", Even the more common weapons, a plus 1 sword, a bag of holding, vicious dagger, or a cap of water breathing really probably need very few special items. You could say a +1 sword must be made from the highest quality metal engraved with specific symbols that will then hold the magic of the enchantment, in which case your saying the Enchanter must know a very good blacksmith and the act of making the sword involves them working in tandem.
If you don't want magic shops in your world that is a perfectly acceptable way to do it, but don't try and insist that a DM can't have magic shops and be low magic, that makes new DM's think they are doing their own game wrong when there might be a perfectly viable in game explanation for how a magic shop exists. In my world Magic Items are akin to works of art, Wizards and other enchanters create items in a small number each year to sell to make an income because Wizard gotta eat, and not everyone wants to go fight a dragon and plunder it's horde and a wizard can't really make money curing wounds and helping the sick. In addition in my Wizard schools and universities training wizards are required on some courses to enchant various magic items to demonstrate they have the required skills to join the guild, on doing so those items are sold and the proceeds equals the guild joining fee. This does not mean harry the farmer can get a +1 sword because that sword is very expensive in comparison to his annual income.
If a wizard in one shop doesn't have what you want, then they might reach out and see if they can source it elsewhere, or they might let you commission a unique item and price it accordingly, with the price reduced if you are able to provide any exotic components. only the rich can buy such items, and, not all things bought are magical weapons, I had one noble commission a 40,000 gp fountain that was entirely magical, with magical fish and birds that never left, and water that was always crystal clear and danced to music (imagine the fountains on the Vegas strip). this he considered a far better demonstration of his wealth then having some stuffy sword hanging on a wall.
Another example is having a world that has just 1 seller of magic items, a wizard family who own 1 warehouse (that exists in a different pocket plane) they have multiple shops in the world, but in actuality on entering the shop you call a representative to appear behind the counter from this pocket dimension. Within that warehouse is every single magic item in the game, all available to buy, some at extremely high prices. but the family maintain how many magic items are in the world of each type ensuring they never reduce the value of their own stock by swamping the market. That can be a very low magic setting with a magic shop in every city.