Cantrips being unlimited use really curbs the need for them, though at mid levels they can be useful for things like troll hunting so that even the non-casters in the party can dish out some elemental damage.
Not much reason to use them beyond that, though.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Alchemist’s fire is Wizard’s version of the Ancient Greek Fire, as such napalm is not a bad modern analog - but it’s more like the stuff used in a flame thrower.
The original D&D flaming oil was much closer to Oil (Flask) than Alchemist's Fire (Flask). Which is also actually cheap enough to be a sensible choice for low level parties.
Fair enough,I thought it was still a liquid not the gel that is napalm but ok.
A few early flamethrowers were built to use liquid fuel, but napalm was quickly discovered to be superior due to sticking to targets for greater damage and also because it held together when fired, which had the benefits of increasing its range and causing it to burn longer.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I personally keep it simple. A mug of ale in the PHB is 4cp. A bottle of beer at a bar in real life is anywhere from $3 - $5 USD. Seems about right to me.
Therefore at my table:
1cp = $1 USD
1sp = $10 USD
1gp = $100 USD
1pp = $1,000 USD
Commoners who live mundane lives live off of copper and silver - rarely will they possess gold.
Except, $ 3-5 USD for a mug of beer would have been outrageous outside of the last 50 years. It doesn't really matter in the end. The economic calculations to determine real prices for goods in these settings would be burdensome for most every games as most of us are not economists. So, establish any standard you wish.
The definitive value of a gold piece is a fool's errand. However, as any approach we choose will be wrong, it doesn't very much mean which wrong we choose-- all are equally good in the quality of their incorrectness.
Except, $ 3-5 USD for a mug of beer would have been outrageous outside of the last 50 years.
There is absolutely no way to get a consistent translation from commonly available goods, because they are internally inconsistent. For example, if we look at commodities, we see such things as a pound of flour (real-world price: about $0.40) and a chicken (real-world price: about $10) both costing 2 cp, which is obvious nonsense.
Except, $ 3-5 USD for a mug of beer would have been outrageous outside of the last 50 years.
There is absolutely no way to get a consistent translation from commonly available goods, because they are internally inconsistent. For example, if we look at commodities, we see such things as a pound of flour (real-world price: about $0.40) and a chicken (real-world price: about $10) both costing 2 cp, which is obvious nonsense.
The real life prices of any given commodity include the shipping, storage and selling costs. This is why buying direct from a farmer (when one is handy to buy from) is almost always much cheaper.
Above and beyond simply being a fantasy setting, in a the medieval time period equivalents most D&D campaigns are set, it may well be more practical to raise and sell chickens than it is to grind flour, especially if there are no grain fields in the immediate area. Chickens can be raised pretty much anywhere.
Above and beyond simply being a fantasy setting, in a the medieval time period equivalents most D&D campaigns are set, it may well be more practical to raise and sell chickens than it is to grind flour, especially if there are no grain fields in the immediate area. Chickens can be raised pretty much anywhere.
There is no realistic setting anywhere where a pound of flour costs less than a chicken, because it takes 10-20 pounds of grain to raise even a small chicken.
Above and beyond simply being a fantasy setting, in a the medieval time period equivalents most D&D campaigns are set, it may well be more practical to raise and sell chickens than it is to grind flour, especially if there are no grain fields in the immediate area. Chickens can be raised pretty much anywhere.
There is no realistic setting anywhere where a pound of flour costs less than a chicken, because it takes 10-20 pounds of grain to raise even a small chicken.
Chickens can eat other things besides grain, they do not need the grain all at once, the grain has to be ground and grain production usually requires a lot more square footage of land.
Edit: The point is that pricing actually has a lot of variables and prices would often be different in an agrarian, fantasy setting than they are in modern, likely urban reality.
it’s a fantasy setting and the pricing is set for game convienence not a real economic system. Even then trying to equate it to today’s economies is fairly ridiculous. A better bet would be the economy of the 1800s and earlier where a typical workman’s wage was $1/day maybe with meals and a roof. In the PHB (2024) hirelings range from 2SP to 2GP per day roughly the same.
And one should remember that at all times a good mens hand made suit always cost about 1 once of gold.
A cheap meal(fast food today) costs about one hour of labor. Back in the middle ages a work day was 12 plus hours. For everyone who labored. Your modern 8 hour day equals their 12+ hour day in pay. Sunday might be the ONLY day off. The church negotiated it with the King to make a day off so followers could worship(and thus donate).
I can never see the point in trying to convert fantasy currency into real world currency because there’s so many factors that affect it. Even in the real world if you’ve spent a good amount of time living and working in a different country you quickly realise there’s little point converting back to your home currency because there’s a different cost of living in the new place and what you earn is (hopefully) suited to that rather than spending your whole time going “wow, that’s cheap/expensive compared to home”
I can never see the point in trying to convert fantasy currency into real world currency because there’s so many factors that affect it. Even in the real world if you’ve spent a good amount of time living and working in a different country you quickly realise there’s little point converting back to your home currency because there’s a different cost of living in the new place and what you earn is (hopefully) suited to that rather than spending your whole time going “wow, that’s cheap/expensive compared to home”
I can see your point when dealing with currency. But when your dealing with precious metals its different. Currency changes value according to the trust in it. World wide gold does not change value from nation to nation. Unless there is some outside extenuating circumstance. Such as owning it is banned.
People that want to know what the gold value is in D&D as compared to what they know in modern day is normal. It makes understanding that what they are getting paid is worth. Could that gold last them into a retirement and beyond or buy that nice little castle they have had their eye on? Or could they earn a pile of cash in the big city and move out to a farm later? Or do they just want to spend it all on song, sex and booze and live like a pirate? They w3ant to know that what they are spending their gold on is at least close to the value they expect.
I can never see the point in trying to convert fantasy currency into real world currency because there’s so many factors that affect it. Even in the real world if you’ve spent a good amount of time living and working in a different country you quickly realise there’s little point converting back to your home currency because there’s a different cost of living in the new place and what you earn is (hopefully) suited to that rather than spending your whole time going “wow, that’s cheap/expensive compared to home”
I can see your point when dealing with currency. But when your dealing with precious metals its different. Currency changes value according to the trust in it. World wide gold does not change value from nation to nation. Unless there is some outside extenuating circumstance. Such as owning it is banned.
People that want to know what the gold value is in D&D as compared to what they know in modern day is normal. It makes understanding that what they are getting paid is worth. Could that gold last them into a retirement and beyond or buy that nice little castle they have had their eye on? Or could they earn a pile of cash in the big city and move out to a farm later? Or do they just want to spend it all on song, sex and booze and live like a pirate? They w3ant to know that what they are spending their gold on is at least close to the value they expect.
But how much of what we buy in game has any sort of one to one comparison in the real world for a conversion to matter? You say about retiring but unlike the real world retiring an adventurer is free, you just stop playing them. The only things most players ever spend their money on is magic potions, armour and weapons and I don’t know about you but my home town doesn’t have a dwarf blacksmith I can ask for a price list in British pounds
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Cantrips being unlimited use really curbs the need for them, though at mid levels they can be useful for things like troll hunting so that even the non-casters in the party can dish out some elemental damage.
Not much reason to use them beyond that, though.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
They should set the cost to 5 gp in 5.5
That still means their rather expensive in real life, but it makes them playable at low levels.
Probally also increase holy waters damage, and make alchemist fire a bomb, as opposed to fantasy napalm.
My homebrew content: Monsters, subclasses, Magic items, Feats, spells, races, backgrounds
Alchemist’s fire is Wizard’s version of the Ancient Greek Fire, as such napalm is not a bad modern analog - but it’s more like the stuff used in a flame thrower.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Napalm was the standard fuel used in flamethrowers.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Fair enough,I thought it was still a liquid not the gel that is napalm but ok.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The original D&D flaming oil was much closer to Oil (Flask) than Alchemist's Fire (Flask). Which is also actually cheap enough to be a sensible choice for low level parties.
A few early flamethrowers were built to use liquid fuel, but napalm was quickly discovered to be superior due to sticking to targets for greater damage and also because it held together when fired, which had the benefits of increasing its range and causing it to burn longer.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Ok
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Except, $ 3-5 USD for a mug of beer would have been outrageous outside of the last 50 years. It doesn't really matter in the end. The economic calculations to determine real prices for goods in these settings would be burdensome for most every games as most of us are not economists. So, establish any standard you wish.
The definitive value of a gold piece is a fool's errand. However, as any approach we choose will be wrong, it doesn't very much mean which wrong we choose-- all are equally good in the quality of their incorrectness.
There is absolutely no way to get a consistent translation from commonly available goods, because they are internally inconsistent. For example, if we look at commodities, we see such things as a pound of flour (real-world price: about $0.40) and a chicken (real-world price: about $10) both costing 2 cp, which is obvious nonsense.
The real life prices of any given commodity include the shipping, storage and selling costs. This is why buying direct from a farmer (when one is handy to buy from) is almost always much cheaper.
Above and beyond simply being a fantasy setting, in a the medieval time period equivalents most D&D campaigns are set, it may well be more practical to raise and sell chickens than it is to grind flour, especially if there are no grain fields in the immediate area. Chickens can be raised pretty much anywhere.
There is no realistic setting anywhere where a pound of flour costs less than a chicken, because it takes 10-20 pounds of grain to raise even a small chicken.
Chickens can eat other things besides grain, they do not need the grain all at once, the grain has to be ground and grain production usually requires a lot more square footage of land.
Edit: The point is that pricing actually has a lot of variables and prices would often be different in an agrarian, fantasy setting than they are in modern, likely urban reality.
it’s a fantasy setting and the pricing is set for game convienence not a real economic system. Even then trying to equate it to today’s economies is fairly ridiculous. A better bet would be the economy of the 1800s and earlier where a typical workman’s wage was $1/day maybe with meals and a roof. In the PHB (2024) hirelings range from 2SP to 2GP per day roughly the same.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I like the beer analogy.
And one should remember that at all times a good mens hand made suit always cost about 1 once of gold.
A cheap meal(fast food today) costs about one hour of labor. Back in the middle ages a work day was 12 plus hours. For everyone who labored. Your modern 8 hour day equals their 12+ hour day in pay. Sunday might be the ONLY day off. The church negotiated it with the King to make a day off so followers could worship(and thus donate).
That in England the afternoon was dedicated to longbow practice
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
We base it off a copper being a penny and a gold piece is a dollar. Then let the other coins settle out. Makes for easy bookkeeping
I can never see the point in trying to convert fantasy currency into real world currency because there’s so many factors that affect it. Even in the real world if you’ve spent a good amount of time living and working in a different country you quickly realise there’s little point converting back to your home currency because there’s a different cost of living in the new place and what you earn is (hopefully) suited to that rather than spending your whole time going “wow, that’s cheap/expensive compared to home”
I can see your point when dealing with currency. But when your dealing with precious metals its different.
Currency changes value according to the trust in it.
World wide gold does not change value from nation to nation. Unless there is some outside extenuating circumstance. Such as owning it is banned.
People that want to know what the gold value is in D&D as compared to what they know in modern day is normal. It makes understanding that what they are getting paid is worth. Could that gold last them into a retirement and beyond or buy that nice little castle they have had their eye on? Or could they earn a pile of cash in the big city and move out to a farm later? Or do they just want to spend it all on song, sex and booze and live like a pirate?
They w3ant to know that what they are spending their gold on is at least close to the value they expect.
But how much of what we buy in game has any sort of one to one comparison in the real world for a conversion to matter? You say about retiring but unlike the real world retiring an adventurer is free, you just stop playing them. The only things most players ever spend their money on is magic potions, armour and weapons and I don’t know about you but my home town doesn’t have a dwarf blacksmith I can ask for a price list in British pounds